Sound4 wrote:Christen57 wrote:Sound4 wrote:ucp.php?i=pm&mode=view&f=0&p=9926 here is the appeal
I think you have to copy and paste, or screenshot and share, what's in the appeal itself to share it with me since it won't let me view that link itself unless I'm a judge like Genexwrecker or something. https://forum.duelingbook.com/ucp.php?i=pm&mode=view&f=0&p=9926Sound4 wrote:1) You still have not explained anything in me thinking for ten minutes and how all this goes to the conclusion of me thinking for ten minutes.
People concluded that you were thinking for over 10 minutes because over 10 minutes passed from when you first said "think" at [17:11], and by then, you still didn't tell anyone you were done thinking, nor did you tell the opponent they could continue. When the judge arrived and saw that you still haven't yet told the opponent you were done thinking, they concluded that it was because you were still thinking and not done thinking yet.
If this was the correct conclusion for that judge to reach, you got the appropriate penalty, but if this was the incorrect conclusion for that judge to reach, you should've explained to the judge what you were doing those 10 minutes.
If you believed the game was "stopped" once the opponent called the judge, you should've told the judge that. If you believed there was no point in continuing because the opponent would've ignored you no matter what because that opponent said "get ignored," you should've told the judge that. If you believed the game "had" to be stopped anyway because of that "sharking" you brought up earlier, you should've told the judge that.
You should've explained at least some of these things to the judge so they wouldn't have remained under the impression you were holding up the game, none of which you explained.2) You have also not explained anything on the reason on the judge call as for some reason the judge was accusing neof refusing to play which doesn't make any sense.
You were refusing to continue the game though. Either that or you were still just taking too long to continue it. By saying [21:26] "Well let's wait for 40 minutes", you indicated that you weren't interested in continuing the game. Instead, you were now interesting in just waiting for the judge — a judge whose call you didn't even yet know the reason for.3) You have not answered anything on me pretty much telling they were no judges online yet I get frozen fir not communicating at all. Why woudI say this if I was refusing to play?
I fail to see how you commenting on whether or not there were any judges online at the time relates to whether or not you were refusing to play. Whether there were judges online at the time or not, you never communicated to the opponent that you were done thinking.4) He had an issue with me pointing at whale there is no reason why he would bring up this if he didn't have an issue. I don't know why you are denying this.
You generally aren't supposed to point at things unless you're choosing/targeting them for an attack/effect. That's what pointing is for, not for simply reading. If you were simply reading, you just needed to hover your mouse over the card and that would be enough. Simply pointing at cards when you're just "reading" them only confuses people into thinking you're choosing/targeting those cards for an attack/effect. This goes for all your duels in general, not just this duel with that specific player. https://www.duelingbook.com/log?id=815175-33324410
Simply clicking cards in an attempt to indicate that you're reading them was not, and is not, proper communication.5) The guy never once informed me on what the judge call was called for. Since he wasn't saying anything I thought it is what he chose AFK. I don't see how I wasn't communicating at all yet this guy was literally ignoring me and was so set on getting a judge in. He could have simply told his issue straight to me. You don't just call a judge for AFK and think that means Slowplay.
Again, if the call is for either AFK or slowplay, you must attempt to continue the duel to the best of your ability while you wait for the judge, not just stop everything to wait. Stop focusing so much on if the call was specifically for slowplay or for AFK, because as long as you know, or are at least sure, that the call is for either of these, you must attempt to continue the duel. Stop worrying about not knowing which of these 2 things the call was specifically for, because you were able to tell that it was for one of them, and that's all you needed to know to attempt to continue the duel, not which of the 2 the call was specifically for.
Stop clinging to this excuse that you had to agree to wait for the judge simply because you didn't have enough information needed to try to continue the duel and because the opponent didn't tell you which of those 2 things (AFK or slowplay) the call was for. You had enough information. You knew the call was for either AFK or slowplay, and that was enough. You didn't need to know anything further, like which of those 2 specifically the call was for, because it doesn't matter which of those 2 the call was for, because it doesn't change the fact that whether the call was really for AFK or for slowplay, you must attempt to continue, and in this case, this meant finishing your thinking/reading, telling the opponent you were done thinking/reading, ending your turn so the opponent could take their turn to continue the duel, and so on, before the judge arrived, and you had at least 8 minutes to do all of this (which was plenty of time), as the logs show such:
[21:26] "Well let's wait for 40 minutes"
[22:30] Lost connection
[22:38] Rejoined duel
[22:38] Duelingbook: The game can resume
[22:45] Went offline
[22:47] Rejoined duel
[22:47] Duelingbook: The game can resume
[24:04] Pointed at "Frightfur Cruel Whale" in M-1
[25:26] Went offline
[25:55] Rejoined duel
[25:55] Duelingbook: The game can resume
[28:53] Pointed at "Frightfur Cruel Whale" in M-1
[29:03] Viewed Opponent's Graveyard
[29:13] Stopped viewing Opponent's Graveyard
[29:18] Viewed GY
[29:25] Stopped viewing GY
[29:59] Maniez entered the game
You said "Well let's wait for 40 minutes" at [21:26], then the judge arrived at [29:59]. That was an 8 minute and 33 second window of time. No way could you have still been reading and thinking about Edge Imp Chain, Live☆Twin Ki-sikil, Frightfur Cruel Whale, and Live☆Twin Home, all for that long.
I mean, just look at [24:04] when you were "pointing at Frightfur Cruel Whale" and then look at [28:53] when you were still "pointing at Frightfur Cruel Whale". If you're trying to tell me that you point at cards to signal that you're reading them, then, that was at least 4 minutes and 49 seconds of you reading just the Frightfur Cruel Whale, and then, from [28:53], after you pointed at the Frightfur Fruel Whale again, to [29:29] when the judge arrived, you were checking the graveyard, which, I assume was so you could go back to reading the Edge Imp Chain that was in there. [28:53] to [29:59] is a minute and 6 seconds.
To be fair, you did disconnect a few times, but it wasn't for long, so you got right back into the duel afterwards. Your first disconnect was from [22:30] to [22:38], which was 8 seconds. Your second disconnect was from [22:45] to [22:47], which was 2 seconds. Your third disconnect was from [25:26] to [25:55], which was 29 seconds. If we subtract all of these disconnect times from the 8 minutes and 33 seconds, 8 minutes and 33 seconds minus the 29 seconds, minus the additional 2 seconds, minus the additional 8 seconds, is 7 minutes and 54 seconds.
8:33 - 29 = 8:04
8:04 - 2 = 8:02
8:02 - 8 = 7:54
This means that, for at least 7 and a half minutes (no longer including the times you were disconnected since I subtracted those from the original 8 minutes and 33 seconds), you were reading and thinking about just 4 cards in total, one of which was, of course, the Frightfur Cruel Whale you kept saying you were pointing to, and one of the others being, of course, the Edge Imp Chain that you were checking in the graveyard. The remaining 2, of course, were your "options" which were simply those dead Live☆Twin cards.
So maybe, after the judge was called at [18:40], you did make some attempt to continue the duel after all, but even so, you still took way too long to finish up the reading/thinking you were doing. Spending 7 and a half minutes reading just 4 cards (something that absolutely should not have taken you more than 40-50 seconds or so) was still too long. You were still being too slow there, and by being so slow, especially when you were in a losing position, you were maliciously stalling, which contributed, if not outright led, to your freeze.
So, as far as the whole "thinking for 10 minutes" thing is concerned, the most logical and most likely conclusion I can draw is this:
- You began thinking/reading, at 17:11 when you said "think" there.
- You stopped thinking/reading, at 18:27 when you said "You actually don't continue when I say think".
- From 17:11 to 18:27 is a minute and 16 seconds, meaning you were thinking/reading for that long during this time.
- 18:27 is when you put your thinking/reading on hold and began arguing with the opponent, and this argument went on until 21:26.
- You resumed your thinking/reading, at 21:26, and attempted to finish up your thinking/reading, until 29:59, which is when the judge arrived.
- From 21:26 to 29:59 is normally 8 minutes and 33 seconds, but, when taking the disconnects into account and subtracting your disconnect times from that 8 minutes and 33 seconds, we're left with 7 minutes and 54 seconds.
- If we take the amount of time you were thinking/reading from 17:11 to 18:27 (which was a minute and 16 seconds), and add that time to the amount of time you were thinking/reading from 21:26 to 29:59 (which was 7 minutes and 54 seconds), we get 9 minutes and 10 seconds.
So my ultimate conclusion, is that the total amount of time you were thinking/reading here didn't equal or exceed 10 minutes like that judge claimed, but rather was 9 minutes and 10 seconds.
However, even that was still far too long, especially when it was only 4 cards in total you were thinking/reading about, so, your freeze was still warranted in this case due to how long the game was being held up by all this thinking and reading of yours. It was wrong for your opponent to continue playing at 17:56 when you didn't yet give them the okay, that I'll admit, and that did slow things down a bit, but you delayed things even longer than your opponent ever did in that game, due to you taking at least 9 minutes in total thinking and reading.
How is me not not saying "I am done thinking" lead to the conclusion I am thinking for ten minutes? You are still missing that I didn't get where Maniez was getting this thinking for ten minutes from. So I could not answer anything else you are saying (even though maniez did not ask them himself.
I am saying that us waiting for a judge was pointless. Us waiting for a judge was entirely his fault him not being clear from the start us what lead to us waiting for ten minutes.
I have done pointing in many other duels and judges never had a problem with it so I don't see how it should here after all all it was obvious I was reading that card. I was still confused what the judge call was made for making an assumption without much proof. I still needed some kind of confirmation and the guy was refusing. How was I refusing to play yet this guy was refusing to say anything?
Plus I was reading other cards in GY as shown in the logs me viewing the GY. The disconnecting just proves further that Ino longer thinking.
I agree with Sound4 that silence does mean consent in Yu-Gi-Oh because there is no point of slowing down to duel by waiting for the other play to say "ok" if they don't have a card to negate or don't want to use it. Also, regarding the Maniez reply, it makes no sense having ten minutes to think, it should not equal you thinking for ten minutes. Sound4 ,from what he is saying, was confused and needed more information, in order to continue without that information it was best to wait for a judge.