Off Topic » Ask Me Anything

hey xteven or mods, why are the only gender options female or male? I ID as an "it" and not a "male" or "female". Can you change that? Thanks!

hey xteven or mods, why are the only gender options female or male? I ID as an "it" and not a "male" or "female". Can you change that? Thanks!
I need to type more for this so uhh here you go i guess. Still need to type more i assume... Not sure what to type but you already know my requets.

Because those are the only genders. Even people rarely born with certain parts are still one or the other. I honestly do not care what you want to personally if as that is your business and I respect what you want to do with your life. That does not mean we need to conform to everyone’s wants or wishes. There are people who identify as deer and that I can garuntee will not be a gender option.

Why can't you just do what every site does? Male, Female, and Other? Even if we consider sex and gender to be the same, we still have intersex and people born without genitals. Those people don't fit the definitions for male or female in terms of sex. So, it still isn't a good idea to only have male and female.

[quote="the end..i think":d0kgnzr7]hey xteven or mods, why are the only gender options female or male? I ID as an "it" and not a "male" or "female". Can you change that? Thanks![/quote:d0kgnzr7]
1). why is this posted to "ask me anything"
2). you dont have to pick "male" or "female" you could just leave it blank.
https://imgur.com/2bDLdlG

[quote="Shugunou":2i1fgxai]Why can't you just do what every site does? Male, Female, and Other? Even if we consider sex and gender to be the same, we still have intersex and people born without genitals. Those people don't fit the definitions for male or female in terms of sex. So, it still isn't a good idea to only have male and female.[/quote:2i1fgxai]
Because we are not woke like those websites and follow the laws of nature. Also people born with both or neither genitals are still able to meet the requirements of male or female.

[quote="Genexwrecker":1rwjfgc6][quote="Shugunou":1rwjfgc6]Why can't you just do what every site does? Male, Female, and Other? Even if we consider sex and gender to be the same, we still have intersex and people born without genitals. Those people don't fit the definitions for male or female in terms of sex. So, it still isn't a good idea to only have male and female.[/quote:1rwjfgc6]
Because we are not woke like those websites and follow the laws of nature. Also people born with both or neither genitals are still able to meet the requirements of male or female.[/quote:1rwjfgc6]
or leave it blank... and put whatever they want in their profile notes....

[quote="Genexwrecker":266hkoka][quote="Shugunou":266hkoka]Why can't you just do what every site does? Male, Female, and Other? Even if we consider sex and gender to be the same, we still have intersex and people born without genitals. Those people don't fit the definitions for male or female in terms of sex. So, it still isn't a good idea to only have male and female.[/quote:266hkoka]
Because we are not woke like those websites and follow the laws of nature. Also people born with both or neither genitals are still able to meet the requirements of male or female.[/quote:266hkoka]

I read an article saying you're considered female if you have 2 X chromosomes but male if you have at least 1 Y chromosomes, and if you happen to be one of those rare people born with an additional Y chromosome you're still male since you still have at least 1 Y chromosome. Is this correct?

[quote="Christen57":1ey99g88][quote="Genexwrecker":1ey99g88][quote="Shugunou":1ey99g88]Why can't you just do what every site does? Male, Female, and Other? Even if we consider sex and gender to be the same, we still have intersex and people born without genitals. Those people don't fit the definitions for male or female in terms of sex. So, it still isn't a good idea to only have male and female.[/quote:1ey99g88]
Because we are not woke like those websites and follow the laws of nature. Also people born with both or neither genitals are still able to meet the requirements of male or female.[/quote:1ey99g88]

I read an article saying you're considered female if you have 2 X chromosomes but male if you have at least 1 Y chromosomes, and if you happen to be one of those rare people born with an additional Y chromosome you're still male since you still have at least 1 Y chromosome. Is this correct?[/quote:1ey99g88]
yes you boil down to a male with a birth defect.

[quote="ominous":36fhvt0c][quote="Genexwrecker":36fhvt0c][quote="Shugunou":36fhvt0c]Why can't you just do what every site does? Male, Female, and Other? Even if we consider sex and gender to be the same, we still have intersex and people born without genitals. Those people don't fit the definitions for male or female in terms of sex. So, it still isn't a good idea to only have male and female.[/quote:36fhvt0c]
Because we are not woke like those websites and follow the laws of nature. Also people born with both or neither genitals are still able to meet the requirements of male or female.[/quote:36fhvt0c]
or leave it blank... and put whatever they want in their profile notes....[/quote:36fhvt0c]
Even if they do that im not going to force users to follow their “pronouns” or made up gender identity. Nor will we penalize users for referring to somebody as him or her.

From what I've gathered from this thread
Deserves rights:
Furries
Doesn't deserve rights:
Lgbtq+

[quote="Lil Oldman":xjeb8wc7]From what I've gathered from this thread
Deserves rights:
Furries
Doesn't deserve rights:
Lgbtq+[/quote:xjeb8wc7]
This is an anonymized platform people will do what they want unless it breaks the rules, then the moderators will punish them. Misgendering someone who you have no real way of determining what they want to be called except what they say (which isn't a binding contract to use a specific term), isn't as big of a deal as it would be if you were there, or using voice chat

being called whatever you want will never be a right and neither will living in someone else's delusion. also human rights don't exist kekw

[quote="greg503":1fb5rui7][quote="Lil Oldman":1fb5rui7]From what I've gathered from this thread
Deserves rights:
Furries
Doesn't deserve rights:
Lgbtq+[/quote:1fb5rui7]
This is an anonymized platform people will do what they want unless it breaks the rules, then the moderators will punish them. Misgendering someone who you have no real way of determining what they want to be called except what they say (which isn't a binding contract to use a specific term), isn't as big of a deal as it would be if you were there, or using voice chat[/quote:1fb5rui7]
There are 2 ways to missgender somebody you meet a guy and he looks very feminine and you call them a female by mistake. You apologize and correct it to male. You meet a female that looks very masculine and call them a male. You apologize and fix it to female. This is the only possible case of missgendering. If somebody calls you a male and you say you are not then ur a female. Once they apologize and refer to you as a female and you say you are not female then you are just on drugs or in your own world and not one with reality.


There are 2 genders. Your opinions and emotions do not matter that is just the course of nature. Some of us have gender dysphoria syndrome but even we are one or the other still. This is not the 5 year old playground where you get to choose wether you are a butterfly or a zebra this is the real world.

[quote="Lil Oldman":2lvd5lj7]From what I've gathered from this thread
Deserves rights:
Furries
Doesn't deserve rights:
Lgbtq+[/quote:2lvd5lj7]
Btw the entitled lgbtq community is not discriminated against. The only rights they dont have in america is to marry whoever they want and get the same treatment legal wise as a married male and female. Change those laws and you have perfect equality.

[quote="Genexwrecker":2z1hrf20][quote="Lil Oldman":2z1hrf20]From what I've gathered from this thread
Deserves rights:
Furries
Doesn't deserve rights:
Lgbtq+[/quote:2z1hrf20]
Btw the entitled lgbtq community is not discriminated against. The only rights they dont have in america is to marry whoever they want and get the same treatment legal wise as a married male and female. Change those laws and you have perfect equality.[/quote:2z1hrf20]
As of 2015 same-sex marriage is now federally legal in all 50 states due to a ruling from the Supreme Court.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_ ... me%20Court.

If wikipedia isn't acceptable then you have

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way ... -marriages

Just wanted to let you know.

[quote="Renji Asuka":ilo39cmr][quote="Genexwrecker":ilo39cmr][quote="Lil Oldman":ilo39cmr]From what I've gathered from this thread
Deserves rights:
Furries
Doesn't deserve rights:
Lgbtq+[/quote:ilo39cmr]
Btw the entitled lgbtq community is not discriminated against. The only rights they dont have in america is to marry whoever they want and get the same treatment legal wise as a married male and female. Change those laws and you have perfect equality.[/quote:ilo39cmr]
As of 2015 same-sex marriage is now federally legal in all 50 states due to a ruling from the Supreme Court.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_ ... me%20Court.

If wikipedia isn't acceptable then you have

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way ... -marriages

Just wanted to let you know.[/quote:ilo39cmr]

yes same sex marriage is legal....however that does not mean that it is the same as other marriages. a few states have loopholes and other things they use to not give you the same advantages along with some hospitals. Also it is on the federal level states while require to follow it sometimes do not do so. These things are on the border of legal not a well established federal law that has been upheld for decades. A same sex marriage is still not going to be treated the same as a heterosexual marriage.

but yea gay couples and lgbtq really are not discriminated against as they so claim. and when it does happen its usually 1 entity doing something to them and not an organized movement to get rid of them.

[quote="Genexwrecker":3u5hx4k7][quote="Renji Asuka":3u5hx4k7][quote="Genexwrecker":3u5hx4k7]
Btw the entitled lgbtq community is not discriminated against. The only rights they dont have in america is to marry whoever they want and get the same treatment legal wise as a married male and female. Change those laws and you have perfect equality.[/quote:3u5hx4k7]
As of 2015 same-sex marriage is now federally legal in all 50 states due to a ruling from the Supreme Court.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_ ... me%20Court.

If wikipedia isn't acceptable then you have

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way ... -marriages

Just wanted to let you know.[/quote:3u5hx4k7] it is on the federal level states while require to follow it sometimes do not do so. [/quote:3u5hx4k7]

I like how this statement right here also applies to the 2nd Amendment, yet States ignore the constitution and push out arms control laws that violate the 2nd Amendment.

But that's a whole different set of topics that isn't really appropriate for duelingbook.

[quote="Renji Asuka":3maf72vd][quote="Genexwrecker":3maf72vd][quote="Renji Asuka":3maf72vd]
As of 2015 same-sex marriage is now federally legal in all 50 states due to a ruling from the Supreme Court.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_ ... me%20Court.

If wikipedia isn't acceptable then you have

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way ... -marriages

Just wanted to let you know.[/quote:3maf72vd] it is on the federal level states while require to follow it sometimes do not do so. [/quote:3maf72vd]

I like how this statement right here also applies to the 2nd Amendment, yet States ignore the constitution and push out arms control laws that violate the 2nd Amendment.

But that's a whole different set of topics that isn't really appropriate for duelingbook.[/quote:3maf72vd]indeed

[quote="Genexwrecker":19thijx5][quote="Lil Oldman":19thijx5]From what I've gathered from this thread
Deserves rights:
Furries
Doesn't deserve rights:
Lgbtq+[/quote:19thijx5]
Btw the entitled lgbtq community is not discriminated against. The only rights they dont have in america is to marry whoever they want and get the same treatment legal wise as a married male and female. Change those laws and you have perfect equality.[/quote:19thijx5]
except, you know, all the hate crimes?

[quote="Genexwrecker":fnm1xk5b][quote="Renji Asuka":fnm1xk5b][quote="Genexwrecker":fnm1xk5b]
Btw the entitled lgbtq community is not discriminated against. The only rights they dont have in america is to marry whoever they want and get the same treatment legal wise as a married male and female. Change those laws and you have perfect equality.[/quote:fnm1xk5b]
As of 2015 same-sex marriage is now federally legal in all 50 states due to a ruling from the Supreme Court.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_ ... me%20Court.

If wikipedia isn't acceptable then you have

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way ... -marriages

Just wanted to let you know.[/quote:fnm1xk5b]

yes same sex marriage is legal....however that does not mean that it is the same as other marriages. a few states have loopholes and other things they use to not give you the same advantages along with some hospitals. Also it is on the federal level states while require to follow it sometimes do not do so. These things are on the border of legal not a well established federal law that has been upheld for decades. A same sex marriage is still not going to be treated the same as a heterosexual marriage.

but yea gay couples and lgbtq really are not discriminated against as they so claim. and when it does happen its usually 1 entity doing something to them and not an organized movement to get rid of them.[/quote:fnm1xk5b]
"Not 1 entity" what about the south baptist church? or most christian orginizations in general?

https://www.apa.org/pi/ses/resources/pu ... s%20minors.
LGBTQ and non-binary people are more likely to be sexually assualted or assaulted in general in america.

and what about the "gay blood ban" people cannot donate blood, even in a shortage, because theyre gay?

the entire point of pride month was based on discrimination, the first pride was a riot caused when police officers entered a gay club and arrested people for being gay.

You don't need another option in the menu, use the profile notes and tell people if it comes up. As for the IRL problems, this isn't going to help solve those

[quote="greg503":3i8i8sez]You don't need another option in the menu, use the profile notes and tell people if it comes up. As for the IRL problems, this isn't going to help solve those[/quote:3i8i8sez]
then why have gender options at all if it isnt going to represent everyone? Just remove the gender selection if its not going to be inclusive, might as well remove male as well, theyre just "females with a birth defect" right?

[quote="Excellion":i1hr10nu][quote="Genexwrecker":i1hr10nu][quote="Lil Oldman":i1hr10nu]From what I've gathered from this thread
Deserves rights:
Furries
Doesn't deserve rights:
Lgbtq+[/quote:i1hr10nu]
Btw the entitled lgbtq community is not discriminated against. The only rights they dont have in america is to marry whoever they want and get the same treatment legal wise as a married male and female. Change those laws and you have perfect equality.[/quote:i1hr10nu]
except, you know, all the hate crimes?[/quote:i1hr10nu]
The amount of hate crimes committed is almost non existent. And they are prosecuted and penalized just like any other crime. Nothing needs to be changed there. The acts of a few racist criminals does not make a country or the rules in it discriminatory just the asshole that committed the crime. And now a days a good chunk of hate crimes that do get the spotlight have been faked for attention.

[quote="Excellion":2rrv05wy]and what about the "gay blood ban" people cannot donate blood, even in a shortage, because theyre gay?[/quote:2rrv05wy]
There is no gay blood ban there are restrictions in place because non heterosexual couples have absurd increases in STD risks. The donation regulation can be changed to where you have to provide negative test results before donating but it should still be restrictive. Last thing a person needs os to contract AIDs or other illness from a blood transfusion. You seem to be somebody brainwashed by politicians. This country has equal rights for every citizen. Religious cults are just that cults who do not accept 99% of the world they do not represent a country just terrible individuals.


In fact the lgbtq community has too many rights and an unfair advantage in the country right now due to illegal “inclusivity” requirements from companies trying to make sure they have at least x amounts of lgbtq and minorities hired over other races and orientations. Hiring or giving somebody special treatment because of their sexual orientation or race is illegal.

[quote="Genexwrecker":h2z6frti][quote="Excellion":h2z6frti][quote="Genexwrecker":h2z6frti]
Btw the entitled lgbtq community is not discriminated against. The only rights they dont have in america is to marry whoever they want and get the same treatment legal wise as a married male and female. Change those laws and you have perfect equality.[/quote:h2z6frti]
except, you know, all the hate crimes?[/quote:h2z6frti]
The amount of hate crimes committed is almost non existent. And they are prosecuted and penalized just like any other crime. Nothing needs to be changed there. The acts of a few racist criminals does not make a country or the rules in it discriminatory just the asshole that committed the crime. And now a days a good chunk of hate crimes that do get the spotlight have been faked for attention.[/quote:h2z6frti]
https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/ ... s-release/
Really? Becauese the deparyment of justice along with several universities disagrees "lgbtq members are 4 times as likely to be victims of violent crimes"

[quote="Genexwrecker":3gwck017][quote="Christen57":3gwck017][quote="Genexwrecker":3gwck017]
Because we are not woke like those websites and follow the laws of nature. Also people born with both or neither genitals are still able to meet the requirements of male or female.[/quote:3gwck017]

I read an article saying you're considered female if you have 2 X chromosomes but male if you have at least 1 Y chromosomes, and if you happen to be one of those rare people born with an additional Y chromosome you're still male since you still have at least 1 Y chromosome. Is this correct?[/quote:3gwck017]
yes you boil down to a male with a birth defect.[/quote:3gwck017]
Then youre a female with a birth defect.

[quote="Genexwrecker":hteikkwz][quote="Excellion":hteikkwz]and what about the "gay blood ban" people cannot donate blood, even in a shortage, because theyre gay?[/quote:hteikkwz]
There is no gay blood ban there are restrictions in place because non heterosexual couples have absurd increases in STD risks. The donation regulation can be changed to where you have to provide negative test results before donating but it should still be restrictive. Last thing a person needs os to contract AIDs or other illness from a blood transfusion. You seem to be somebody brainwashed by politicians. This country has equal rights for every citizen. Religious cults are just that cults who do not accept 99% of the world they do not represent a country just terrible individuals.


In fact the lgbtq community has too many rights and an unfair advantage in the country right now due to illegal “inclusivity” requirements from companies trying to make sure they have at least x amounts of lgbtq and minorities hired over other races and orientations. Hiring or giving somebody special treatment because of their sexual orientation or race is illegal.[/quote:hteikkwz]
Source? Becauee medical studies find that gay couples have a .003% higher chance of stis than straight couples, less that a tenth of a percent is enough to ban people who have been in a gay relationship to donate blood?

[quote="Genexwrecker":3jew7z27][quote="Excellion":3jew7z27]and what about the "gay blood ban" people cannot donate blood, even in a shortage, because theyre gay?[/quote:3jew7z27]
There is no gay blood ban there are restrictions in place because non heterosexual couples have absurd increases in STD risks. The donation regulation can be changed to where you have to provide negative test results before donating but it should still be restrictive. Last thing a person needs os to contract AIDs or other illness from a blood transfusion. You seem to be somebody brainwashed by politicians. This country has equal rights for every citizen. Religious cults are just that cults who do not accept 99% of the world they do not represent a country just terrible individuals.


In fact the lgbtq community has too many rights and an unfair advantage in the country right now due to illegal “inclusivity” requirements from companies trying to make sure they have at least x amounts of lgbtq and minorities hired over other races and orientations. Hiring or giving somebody special treatment because of their sexual orientation or race is illegal.[/quote:3jew7z27]
Also Brain washed by politicians? Im giving you medical journals and quotes from the department of justice relating to lgbtq crime rates and descrimination in the us, "too many rights?" What are you talking about? Most of them still dont have a right to be married, a right garenteed to straight couples, also way to make diversity hires sound like a bad thing... theyre meant to combat discriminatory hiring.

Let me ask you this, why can a straight cis woman win in the olympics and be a model for empowerment but when a transwomen does it suddenly, there is an outroar?

Non binary identification has existed for literally thousands of years, its a big part in most every culture in the world, this idea that its some "new age fad" is ignoring history and culture.

[quote="Excellion":uqj396c8][quote="Genexwrecker":uqj396c8][quote="Excellion":uqj396c8]
except, you know, all the hate crimes?[/quote:uqj396c8]
The amount of hate crimes committed is almost non existent. And they are prosecuted and penalized just like any other crime. Nothing needs to be changed there. The acts of a few racist criminals does not make a country or the rules in it discriminatory just the asshole that committed the crime. And now a days a good chunk of hate crimes that do get the spotlight have been faked for attention.[/quote:uqj396c8]
https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/ ... s-release/
Really? Becauese the deparyment of justice along with several universities disagrees "lgbtq members are 4 times as likely to be victims of violent crimes"[/quote:uqj396c8]
That's a people problem, not something that will just fix itself if every website with a profile gave you the opportunity to define yourself in detail through drop-down menus, because again, you can just put it in your self-written profile note

[quote="greg503":1ykguhza][quote="Excellion":1ykguhza][quote="Genexwrecker":1ykguhza]
The amount of hate crimes committed is almost non existent. And they are prosecuted and penalized just like any other crime. Nothing needs to be changed there. The acts of a few racist criminals does not make a country or the rules in it discriminatory just the asshole that committed the crime. And now a days a good chunk of hate crimes that do get the spotlight have been faked for attention.[/quote:1ykguhza]
https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/ ... s-release/
Really? Becauese the deparyment of justice along with several universities disagrees "lgbtq members are 4 times as likely to be victims of violent crimes"[/quote:1ykguhza]
That's a people problem, not something that will just fix itself if every website with a profile gave you the opportunity to define yourself in detail through drop-down menus, because again, you can just put it in your self-written profile note[/quote:1ykguhza]
So your answer is "we cant fix the issue, so well propetuate the issue" stopping 1 case of discrimination wont stop all cases of discriminiation, but if it was discrimination against you, youd want it to stop, right? No one is claiming this will fix all issues for the lgbtq but it wont add to the issue that is present IN YUGIOH. There is a ton of discrimination against openly gay yugioh players in the community, even though there is a sizable lgbtq+ yugioh community. Im not asking for a list of 88 genders in a drop down list, remove the gender selector entirely, let people put their gender in their profile description if its important to them.

[quote="Excellion":3xhxm20q][quote="Genexwrecker":3xhxm20q][quote="Excellion":3xhxm20q]
except, you know, all the hate crimes?[/quote:3xhxm20q]
The amount of hate crimes committed is almost non existent. And they are prosecuted and penalized just like any other crime. Nothing needs to be changed there. The acts of a few racist criminals does not make a country or the rules in it discriminatory just the asshole that committed the crime. And now a days a good chunk of hate crimes that do get the spotlight have been faked for attention.[/quote:3xhxm20q]
https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/ ... s-release/
Really? Becauese the deparyment of justice along with several universities disagrees "lgbtq members are 4 times as likely to be victims of violent crimes"[/quote:3xhxm20q]

How does a criminal tell if you're LGBTQ in order to target you for a violent crime? Does it have something to do with how you look? Does it have something to do with how you talk?

Then youre a female with a birth defect.

Either way, you're still either male or female.

What are you talking about? Most of them still dont have a right to be married, a right garenteed to straight couples, also way to make diversity hires sound like a bad thing... theyre meant to combat discriminatory hiring.

Did the supreme court not declare same-sex marriage legal in 2015?

Let me ask you this, why can a straight cis woman win in the olympics and be a model for empowerment but when a transwomen does it suddenly, there is an outroar?

Because it leads to cheating, where males choose to identify as female and thus get to compete in these events meant for females only.

Non binary identification has existed for literally thousands of years, its a big part in most every culture in the world, this idea that its some "new age fad" is ignoring history and culture.

Which chromosome combination must one have to be non-binary? If your chromosomes are XX, you're female. If they're XY, you're male. If they're XYY, you're still either male or female.

There is a ton of discrimination against openly gay yugioh players in the community, even though there is a sizable lgbtq+ yugioh community.

Where on this forum has this discrimination been happening?

Also, I thought we were talking about genders. "Gay" is not a gender. Gay is a feeling of sexual attraction toward the same sex.

[quote="Christen57":geuho26l][quote="Excellion":geuho26l][quote="Genexwrecker":geuho26l]
The amount of hate crimes committed is almost non existent. And they are prosecuted and penalized just like any other crime. Nothing needs to be changed there. The acts of a few racist criminals does not make a country or the rules in it discriminatory just the asshole that committed the crime. And now a days a good chunk of hate crimes that do get the spotlight have been faked for attention.[/quote:geuho26l]
https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/ ... s-release/
Really? Becauese the deparyment of justice along with several universities disagrees "lgbtq members are 4 times as likely to be victims of violent crimes"[/quote:geuho26l]

How does a criminal tell if you're LGBTQ in order to target you for a violent crime? Does it have something to do with how you look? Does it have something to do with how you talk?[/quote:geuho26l]
Most reported cases come from non binary or trans people using the restroom they identify with and being harrassed and/or assaulted, sometimes even sexually assaulted by other people in the restroom.

Then youre a female with a birth defect.

Either way, you're still either male or female.

no medically all babies are female, the y chromosome is therefore a birth defect, if we arent counting "yy" or "xxy" as biological genders. Everyone is either cis female or a female with a brith defect/Transmale.

What are you talking about? Most of them still dont have a right to be married, a right garenteed to straight couples, also way to make diversity hires sound like a bad thing... theyre meant to combat discriminatory hiring.

Did the supreme court not declare same-sex marriage legal in 2015?

They did, doesnt mean its followed in states like texas if youre trying to get a same sex marriage youre out of luck.

Let me ask you this, why can a straight cis woman win in the olympics and be a model for empowerment but when a transwomen does it suddenly, there is an outroar?

Because it leads to cheating, where males choose to identify as female and thus get to compete in these events meant for females only.

Except in the example they screen for hormone and drug use, in this example the athletes testosterone was the same as a cis woman and their other hormones were the same as a cis women as well, they had no advantage.

Non binary identification has existed for literally thousands of years, its a big part in most every culture in the world, this idea that its some "new age fad" is ignoring history and culture.

Which chromosome combination must one have to be non-binary? If your chromosomes are XX, you're female. If they're XY, you're male. If they're XYY, you're still either male or female.

More ways to check gender than just chromosomes, if you ever read a biological study on the subject.

There is a ton of discrimination against openly gay yugioh players in the community, even though there is a sizable lgbtq+ yugioh community.

Where on this forum has this discrimination been happening?

In this thread... ">furries: have rights LGBTQ:No rights" how would you feel if you had to identify as "they" on your account, or as an indentification you werent? Is that not discriminatory, not being allowed to have yourself properly represented in the community for no reason other than someone "doesnt believe you should"

Also, I thought we were talking about genders. "Gay" is not a gender. Gay is a feeling of sexual attraction toward the same sex.

Yes sex and gender overlap, suprisingly, and i was talking about LGBTQ rights with covers both.

You guys are really desperate to propetuate homonormality otherwise why would this even be an issue? Just add an "X" option for the gender selector, thats what most states do. Or remove the gender selector all together

[quote="Excellion":e99xvyvn][quote="Christen57":e99xvyvn][quote="Excellion":e99xvyvn]
https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/ ... s-release/
Really? Becauese the deparyment of justice along with several universities disagrees "lgbtq members are 4 times as likely to be victims of violent crimes"[/quote:e99xvyvn]

How does a criminal tell if you're LGBTQ in order to target you for a violent crime? Does it have something to do with how you look? Does it have something to do with how you talk?[/quote:e99xvyvn]
Most reported cases come from non binary or trans people using the restroom they identify with and being harrassed and/or assaulted, sometimes even sexually assaulted by other people in the restroom.[/quote:e99xvyvn]

You should be using the bathroom that matches your biological gender, not whichever bathroom you "choose to identify with".

no medically all babies are female, the y chromosome is therefore a birth defect, if we arent counting "yy" or "xxy" as biological genders.

Someone can be born with YY and XXY chromosomes?

Everyone is either cis female or a female with a brith defect/Transmale.

If you want to call us males "females with birth defects" or "transmales" you're free to do so, but unless you have evidence to back this claim up, genders will remain as "male" and "female" in society.

They did, doesnt mean its followed in states like texas if youre trying to get a same sex marriage youre out of luck.

Why has the federal government not intervened and enforced this law?

Except in the example they screen for hormone and drug use, in this example the athletes testosterone was the same as a cis woman and their other hormones were the same as a cis women as well, they had no advantage.

1 anecdote of 1 trans competitor turning out to have the same hormone levels as 1 non-trans competitor doesn't automatically disprove that biological factors still, for the most part, give males certain edges over females in sports. Plus, it's not just hormones and drug use you take into account. [url:e99xvyvn]https://quillette.com/2021/12/11/male-and-female-athletic-performance/[/url:e99xvyvn]

Broadly, when compared with females, males are taller and have longer bones with narrower hips and wider shoulders; have lower body fat and higher muscle mass differentially distributed across sites, with more resistant connective tissue; have larger hearts and lungs, and higher levels of haemoglobin, the protein that carries oxygen within the blood.
The different physical attributes of males and females have functional consequences for sports-relevant outputs. For example, superior muscle mass, particularly in the upper body, leads to greater male strength when compared with female capacity. Greater muscular strength coupled with longer skeletal levers enable males to apply superior force in activities like jumping, throwing, and punching. Males have greater cardiovascular capacity, with higher capacity oxygenation and transport systems.
On average, males can move faster, jump further, throw longer, and lift heavier objects than females, and this creates large performance gaps between males and females in almost all sports.

More ways to check gender than just chromosomes

Like what, and how are those ways better and more reliable than checking chromosomes?

[quote:e99xvyvn]There is a ton of discrimination against openly gay yugioh players in the community, even though there is a sizable lgbtq+ yugioh community.

Where on this forum has this discrimination been happening?

In this thread... ">furries: have rights LGBTQ:No rights"[/quote:e99xvyvn]

Lil Oldman wasn't asserting that himself. He was just claiming that's what he was allegedly learning from this thread. There's no rule anywhere on duelingbook saying anything about "furries," "LGBTQ," or any specific gender having more or less rights than the other(s).

how would you feel if you had to identify as "they" on your account, or as an indentification you werent?

What's "had to" supposed to mean? Nobody's forcing you to identify as a they. You're expected to identify as either male or female (with or without this "birth defect" thing you speak of).

Just add an "X" option for the gender selector

So "X" is also a gender now?

Its recognized in states like arizona to denote a non binary person, then the person can add their perfered gender.

[quote="Excellion":3scaiooy]Its recognized in states like arizona to denote a non binary person, then the person can add their perfered gender.[/quote:3scaiooy]

Okay, and that's Arizona's choice to pander to entitled people who wanna sexually identify as attack helicopters and whatnot, not duelingbook's choice.

[quote="Christen57":jlkt02lz][quote="Excellion":jlkt02lz]Its recognized in states like arizona to denote a non binary person, then the person can add their perfered gender.[/quote:jlkt02lz]

Okay, and that's Arizona's choice to pander to entitled people who wanna sexually identify as attack helicopters and whatnot, not duelingbook's choice.[/quote:jlkt02lz]
Exactly, then entitled binary people dont need to display their heterosexuality either, thats why im saying remove the gender selector all together if someone wants their gender to be known.

if non binary shit has been around for hundreds of years, I would have known about it. other than gods not having confirmed genders or are more of a concept or place, I really doubt anything like that could be applied anywhere else people understood what is the truth and what is delusion and sadly that's dying out now.

on the whole transgender athlete thing, the whole testosterone level thing doesn't really matter now due to them going their whole lives on that boost and its effects don't just disappear they probably wont be as good before they transitioned but they will never be on the same level as the avg women.

with the thing about violence against trans people in bathrooms and I cant exactly say im against that, they are in a place they shouldn't be and their delusion doesn't change the rules so people enforce them and we ignore the opportunity predators get to assualt people using this as an excuse to get in. also, we just gonna ignore discrimination against people in the workplace just because they feel uncomfortable with these people in their bathrooms and the laws mandating certain amounts of people are dumb aswell.

no one should have to take part in your delusion end of story.

Gender and Sex have distinct defintions from one another.

Sex refers to the biological component, the chromosomes, the """""laws of nature""""""" (cringe), whereas gender refers to the nonbiological components. This includes behaviors and/or social queues that can indicate one gender or the other: The clothes we wear, our posture, how we talk, societal expectations of our sex, etc.

Both components contribute to a person's overall sexual identity.

I only bring this up because people tend to uses these terms interchangeably, and they shouldn't. It just makes the discussion even more confusing.

[quote="PENMASTER":lisubosi]if non binary shit has been around for hundreds of years, I would have known about it. other than gods not having confirmed genders or are more of a concept or place, I really doubt anything like that could be applied anywhere else people understood what is the truth and what is delusion and sadly that's dying out now.

on the whole transgender athlete thing, the whole testosterone level thing doesn't really matter now due to them going their whole lives on that boost and its effects don't just disappear they probably wont be as good before they transitioned but they will never be on the same level as the avg women.

with the thing about violence against trans people in bathrooms and I cant exactly say im against that, they are in a place they shouldn't be and their delusion doesn't change the rules so people enforce them and we ignore the opportunity predators get to assualt people using this as an excuse to get in. also, we just gonna ignore discrimination against people in the workplace just because they feel uncomfortable with these people in their bathrooms and the laws mandating certain amounts of people are dumb aswell.

no one should have to take part in your delusion end of story.[/quote:lisubosi]
Non binary prefix in rome and greese, duel names in egypt denoting both masc and fem, all of hinduism japans long tradition of fluid gender identity, it is seen in just shy of every continent but the US for hundreds of thousands of years going all the way back to the story of gilgamesh where ishtar is saved frok the underworld by a gender non binary person.

[quote="troglyte":3ce5yx22]Gender and Sex have distinct defintions from one another.

Sex refers to the biological component, the chromosomes, the """""laws of nature""""""" (cringe), whereas gender refers to the nonbiological components. This includes behaviors and/or social queues that can indicate one gender or the other: The clothes we wear, our posture, how we talk, societal expectations of our sex, etc.

Both components contribute to a person's overall sexual identity.

I only bring this up because people tend to uses these terms interchangeably, and they shouldn't. It just makes the discussion even more confusing.[/quote:3ce5yx22]
While this point would be valid... Genexwrecker is saying gender is "biological" then ignores intersex persons people of "Yy" or "xxy" chromosome pairings the reason the discussion of sexuality and gender was brought up was because genexwrecker seems to think the lgbtq+ which covers genders and sexual orientations have "too many rights".

[quote="Excellion":174qxxyb][quote="troglyte":174qxxyb]Gender and Sex have distinct defintions from one another.

Sex refers to the biological component, the chromosomes, the """""laws of nature""""""" (cringe), whereas gender refers to the nonbiological components. This includes behaviors and/or social queues that can indicate one gender or the other: The clothes we wear, our posture, how we talk, societal expectations of our sex, etc.

Both components contribute to a person's overall sexual identity.

I only bring this up because people tend to uses these terms interchangeably, and they shouldn't. It just makes the discussion even more confusing.[/quote:174qxxyb]
While this point would be valid... Genexwrecker is saying gender is "biological" then ignores intersex persons people of "Yy" or "xxy" chromosome pairings the reason the discussion of sexuality and gender was brought up was because genexwrecker seems to think the lgbtq+ which covers genders and sexual orientations have "too many rights".[/quote:174qxxyb]
Basically genexwrecker has said "gender is biological, except when its not binary" the exact quote is "you are either male, female or one of those with a birth defect" which ignores a massive part of biological gender studies.

gonna be honest just because you are some freak that doesn't fit nicely into 1 or the other category doesn't mean that categorization is wrong, there are always outliers to say otherwise but 1 in a million people can't change the whole way to categorize things. im sure even if you don't fit nicely there are ways to categorize you but if you are an outlier you don't change a thing

[quote="Excellion":sa8whgce][quote="Christen57":sa8whgce][quote="Excellion":sa8whgce]Its recognized in states like arizona to denote a non binary person, then the person can add their perfered gender.[/quote:sa8whgce]

Okay, and that's Arizona's choice to pander to entitled people who wanna sexually identify as attack helicopters and whatnot, not duelingbook's choice.[/quote:sa8whgce]
Exactly, then entitled binary people dont need to display their heterosexuality either, thats why im saying remove the gender selector all together if someone wants their gender to be known.[/quote:sa8whgce]

You do have the option to hide your gender as multiple people already pointed out that you can leave the thing blank instead of picking male or female. That counts as "removing it" and thus fits your criteria of it being "removed".

Non binary prefix in rome and greese

Some parts of the world doing it a long time ago doesn't make it valid today. I'm sure Rome and Greece also, for a long time, believed in their Gods and pseudosciences, and believed in witches/witchcraft, human sacrifices/rituals, preserving the corpses of pharaohs so they could have the appropriate body needed to move on to the afterlife, and so on, and I bet that they abandoned all of this once science and technology were introduced and evolved to disprove many of these things.

Genexwrecker is saying gender is "biological" then ignores intersex persons people of "Yy" or "xxy" chromosome pairings

No one in history has ever had either of those chromosome combinations as far as I'm aware.

I really wanted to stay out of this debate entirely and frankly this thread should had been locked earlier. I been around twitter too long dealing with LGBTQ+ nonsense. But I'm left with no choice.

First, let's cut the crap regarding "Gender is a social construct"

The idea that gender is a social construct is relatively new by a very screwed up individuals being one of the founders to the idea. John Money, who raised a pair of twin boys. One as a boy, and one as a girl. He forced the one that was raised as a girl to be in sexual submissive poses while taking pictures, forced to grow their hair out, forced to wear dresses and play with dolls. He declared his experiment as a success.

Meanwhile the one raised as a girl played with his brother's toys in secret. 1 twin died from drug overdose. The other died from blowing his brains out with a sawn off shotgun.

If you still believe that gender is a social construct after learning this, then you quite literally support this experiment which would show how terrible of a person you really are.

Also important to note: DO NOT GIVE IN TO THE DELUSIONS OF THE MENTALLY ILL. Would you give into the delusions of a schizophrenic person? No, it's dangerous for everyone involved. Why would you do the same for people who don't know which bathroom to use? Do not expect me to call you by your preferred crap. If you have a fully functional vagina, you are a woman. End of story. If you have a fully functional penis you are a man. End of story. A woman cannot be a man and a man cannot be a woman. There is no "ands, if's or but" about it.

[quote="Excellion":34enckpr]Its recognized in states like arizona to denote a non binary person, then the person can add their perfered gender.[/quote:34enckpr]
It is still make believe nonsense by entitled children.

[quote="Excellion":tiorub0p][quote="Excellion":tiorub0p][quote="troglyte":tiorub0p]Gender and Sex have distinct defintions from one another.

Sex refers to the biological component, the chromosomes, the """""laws of nature""""""" (cringe), whereas gender refers to the nonbiological components. This includes behaviors and/or social queues that can indicate one gender or the other: The clothes we wear, our posture, how we talk, societal expectations of our sex, etc.

Both components contribute to a person's overall sexual identity.

I only bring this up because people tend to uses these terms interchangeably, and they shouldn't. It just makes the discussion even more confusing.[/quote:tiorub0p]
While this point would be valid... Genexwrecker is saying gender is "biological" then ignores intersex persons people of "Yy" or "xxy" chromosome pairings the reason the discussion of sexuality and gender was brought up was because genexwrecker seems to think the lgbtq+ which covers genders and sexual orientations have "too many rights".[/quote:tiorub0p]
Basically genexwrecker has said "gender is biological, except when its not binary" the exact quote is "you are either male, female or one of those with a birth defect" which ignores a massive part of biological gender studies.[/quote:tiorub0p]
People with birth defects are still one of the 2 genders it does not create new ones.

[quote="Christen57":3ci9fd0g][quote="Excellion":3ci9fd0g][quote="Christen57":3ci9fd0g]

Okay, and that's Arizona's choice to pander to entitled people who wanna sexually identify as attack helicopters and whatnot, not duelingbook's choice.[/quote:3ci9fd0g]
Exactly, then entitled binary people dont need to display their heterosexuality either, thats why im saying remove the gender selector all together if someone wants their gender to be known.[/quote:3ci9fd0g]

You do have the option to hide your gender as multiple people already pointed out that you can leave the thing blank instead of picking male or female. That counts as "removing it" and thus fits your criteria of it being "removed".

Non binary prefix in rome and greese

Some parts of the world doing it a long time ago doesn't make it valid today. I'm sure Rome and Greece also, for a long time, believed in their Gods and pseudosciences, and believed in witches/witchcraft, human sacrifices/rituals, preserving the corpses of pharaohs so they could have the appropriate body needed to move on to the afterlife, and so on, and I bet that they abandoned all of this once science and technology were introduced and evolved to disprove many of these things.

Genexwrecker is saying gender is "biological" then ignores intersex persons people of "Yy" or "xxy" chromosome pairings

No one in history has ever had either of those chromosome combinations as far as I'm aware.[/quote:3ci9fd0g]
1.7% of the total population is.
https://www.americanprogress.org/articl ... variations.

[quote="Renji Asuka":1gmvigby]I really wanted to stay out of this debate entirely and frankly this thread should had been locked earlier. I been around twitter too long dealing with LGBTQ+ nonsense. But I'm left with no choice.

First, let's cut the crap regarding "Gender is a social construct"

The idea that gender is a social construct is relatively new by a very screwed up individuals being one of the founders to the idea. John Money, who raised a pair of twin boys. One as a boy, and one as a girl. He forced the one that was raised as a girl to be in sexual submissive poses while taking pictures, forced to grow their hair out, forced to wear dresses and play with dolls. He declared his experiment as a success.

Meanwhile the one raised as a girl played with his brother's toys in secret. 1 twin died from drug overdose. The other died from blowing his brains out with a sawn off shotgun.

If you still believe that gender is a social construct after learning this, then you quite literally support this experiment which would show how terrible of a person you really are.

Also important to note: DO NOT GIVE IN TO THE DELUSIONS OF THE MENTALLY ILL. Would you give into the delusions of a schizophrenic person? No, it's dangerous for everyone involved. Why would you do the same for people who don't know which bathroom to use? Do not expect me to call you by your preferred crap. If you have a fully functional vagina, you are a woman. End of story. If you have a fully functional penis you are a man. End of story. A woman cannot be a man and a man cannot be a woman. There is no "ands, if's or but" about it.[/quote:1gmvigby]^ pretty much ends the discussion.

[quote="Excellion":2ktsau9k][quote="Christen57":2ktsau9k][quote="Excellion":2ktsau9k]
Exactly, then entitled binary people dont need to display their heterosexuality either, thats why im saying remove the gender selector all together if someone wants their gender to be known.[/quote:2ktsau9k]

You do have the option to hide your gender as multiple people already pointed out that you can leave the thing blank instead of picking male or female. That counts as "removing it" and thus fits your criteria of it being "removed".

Non binary prefix in rome and greese

Some parts of the world doing it a long time ago doesn't make it valid today. I'm sure Rome and Greece also, for a long time, believed in their Gods and pseudosciences, and believed in witches/witchcraft, human sacrifices/rituals, preserving the corpses of pharaohs so they could have the appropriate body needed to move on to the afterlife, and so on, and I bet that they abandoned all of this once science and technology were introduced and evolved to disprove many of these things.

Genexwrecker is saying gender is "biological" then ignores intersex persons people of "Yy" or "xxy" chromosome pairings

No one in history has ever had either of those chromosome combinations as far as I'm aware.[/quote:2ktsau9k]
1.7% of the total population is.
https://www.americanprogress.org/articl ... variations.[/quote:2ktsau9k]

You have to use [url] tags when linking stuff or else the url will be replaced with "..."

You do it like this:

[code:2ktsau9k][url]www.example.com[/url][/code:2ktsau9k]

So it appears as this:

[url:2ktsau9k]http://www.example.com[/url:2ktsau9k]

[quote="PENMASTER":2uuuryzw]gonna be honest just because you are some freak that doesn't fit nicely into 1 or the other category doesn't mean that categorization is wrong, there are always outliers to say otherwise but 1 in a million people can't change the whole way to categorize things. im sure even if you don't fit nicely there are ways to categorize you but if you are an outlier you don't change a thing[/quote:2uuuryzw]
And yet we make special products to accomidate ginger people who are 1.5% of the population, between 2 and 3%of children are born disabled yet we still make accomidations for them, so are you calling them entitled? also by that logic humans make up less than 1% of the total population of the earth? Yet we change things to make it easier for us.

[quote="Excellion":1myyos3h][quote="PENMASTER":1myyos3h]gonna be honest just because you are some freak that doesn't fit nicely into 1 or the other category doesn't mean that categorization is wrong, there are always outliers to say otherwise but 1 in a million people can't change the whole way to categorize things. im sure even if you don't fit nicely there are ways to categorize you but if you are an outlier you don't change a thing[/quote:1myyos3h]
And yet we make special products to accomidate ginger people who are 1.5% of the population, between 2 and 3%of children are born disabled yet we still make accomidations for them, so are you calling them entitled? also by that logic humans make up less than 1% of the total population of the earth? Yet we change things to make it easier for us.[/quote:1myyos3h]

Being confused about your own gender or wanting to sexually identify as an attack helicopter isn't a disability. It's a bad mindset. We don't need to accommodate people who want to identify as attack helicopters since attack helicopter isn't a real gender.

[quote="Christen57":262nj1p5][quote="Excellion":262nj1p5][quote="Christen57":262nj1p5]

Okay, and that's Arizona's choice to pander to entitled people who wanna sexually identify as attack helicopters and whatnot, not duelingbook's choice.[/quote:262nj1p5]
Exactly, then entitled binary people dont need to display their heterosexuality either, thats why im saying remove the gender selector all together if someone wants their gender to be known.[/quote:262nj1p5]

You do have the option to hide your gender as multiple people already pointed out that you can leave the thing blank instead of picking male or female. That counts as "removing it" and thus fits your criteria of it being "removed".

Non binary prefix in rome and greese

Some parts of the world doing it a long time ago doesn't make it valid today. I'm sure Rome and Greece also, for a long time, believed in their Gods and pseudosciences, and believed in witches/witchcraft, human sacrifices/rituals, preserving the corpses of pharaohs so they could have the appropriate body needed to move on to the afterlife, and so on, and I bet that they abandoned all of this once science and technology were introduced and evolved to disprove many of these things.

Genexwrecker is saying gender is "biological" then ignores intersex persons people of "Yy" or "xxy" chromosome pairings

[/quote:262nj1p5]

No one in history has ever had either of those chromosome combinations as far as I'm aware.[/quote]
Then what is your basis for a binary system if its not based on anything "from the past"? What about the very modern examples like japan that celebrates fluid sexuality, and no greese and rome did not abandoned non binary persons as technology evolved it cannot be compared to religiious culture which changed every time a new army took over a town because non binary was an understood norm.

Also leaving it blank is not removing it, it would be like if the options for race included everything but yours, and you had no option to add it, so you had to leave it blank when identifying yourself, how would that feel?

[quote="Christen57":23fzyy0p][quote="Excellion":23fzyy0p][quote="Christen57":23fzyy0p]

You do have the option to hide your gender as multiple people already pointed out that you can leave the thing blank instead of picking male or female. That counts as "removing it" and thus fits your criteria of it being "removed".



Some parts of the world doing it a long time ago doesn't make it valid today. I'm sure Rome and Greece also, for a long time, believed in their Gods and pseudosciences, and believed in witches/witchcraft, human sacrifices/rituals, preserving the corpses of pharaohs so they could have the appropriate body needed to move on to the afterlife, and so on, and I bet that they abandoned all of this once science and technology were introduced and evolved to disprove many of these things.



No one in history has ever had either of those chromosome combinations as far as I'm aware.[/quote:23fzyy0p]
1.7% of the total population is.
https://www.americanprogress.org/articl ... variations.[/quote:23fzyy0p]

You have to use [url] tags when linking stuff or else the url will be replaced with "..."

You do it like this:

[code:23fzyy0p][url]www.example.com[/url][/code:23fzyy0p]

So it appears as this:

[url:23fzyy0p]http://www.example.com[/url:23fzyy0p][/quote:23fzyy0p]
[url:23fzyy0p]https://www.americanprogress.org/article/key-issues-facing-people-intersex-traits/#:~:text=It%20is%20estimated%20that%20up,identifiable%20sexual%20or%20reproductive%20variations[/url:23fzyy0p]
Thank you.

[quote="Christen57":2ffgadf7][quote="Excellion":2ffgadf7][quote="PENMASTER":2ffgadf7]gonna be honest just because you are some freak that doesn't fit nicely into 1 or the other category doesn't mean that categorization is wrong, there are always outliers to say otherwise but 1 in a million people can't change the whole way to categorize things. im sure even if you don't fit nicely there are ways to categorize you but if you are an outlier you don't change a thing[/quote:2ffgadf7]
And yet we make special products to accomidate ginger people who are 1.5% of the population, between 2 and 3%of children are born disabled yet we still make accomidations for them, so are you calling them entitled? also by that logic humans make up less than 1% of the total population of the earth? Yet we change things to make it easier for us.[/quote:2ffgadf7]

Being confused about your own gender or wanting to sexually identify as an attack helicopter isn't a disability. It's a bad mindset. We don't need to accommodate people who want to identify as attack helicopters since attack helicopter isn't a real gender.[/quote:2ffgadf7]
Then remove the option so it wont be abused. Its not "confusion" people want to be able to put down what they are, they could easily replace the dropdown menu with a text box entry like they did with language, people see "memeglish" as their primary language on their account and thats fine, but youre really gonna be offended if someone puts "attack helicopter' as their gender?

[quote="Excellion":3pohfe48][quote="PENMASTER":3pohfe48]gonna be honest just because you are some freak that doesn't fit nicely into 1 or the other category doesn't mean that categorization is wrong, there are always outliers to say otherwise but 1 in a million people can't change the whole way to categorize things. im sure even if you don't fit nicely there are ways to categorize you but if you are an outlier you don't change a thing[/quote:3pohfe48]
And yet we make special products to accomidate ginger people who are 1.5% of the population, between 2 and 3%of children are born disabled yet we still make accomidations for them, so are you calling them entitled? also by that logic humans make up less than 1% of the total population of the earth? Yet we change things to make it easier for us.[/quote:3pohfe48]
1 for gingers its a fucking hair color and its an easy market to get buyers and in certain counties people don't make products for them cause different countries have different concentrations of red heads.
2 depending on the disability yea we put to many resources into them.
3 we are the top dogs on the planet and a similar number applies to most other shit.
in the end no one is entitled to shit for others

[quote="Excellion":kawzyps6][quote="Christen57":kawzyps6]

You do have the option to hide your gender as multiple people already pointed out that you can leave the thing blank instead of picking male or female. That counts as "removing it" and thus fits your criteria of it being "removed".

Some parts of the world doing it a long time ago doesn't make it valid today. I'm sure Rome and Greece also, for a long time, believed in their Gods and pseudosciences, and believed in witches/witchcraft, human sacrifices/rituals, preserving the corpses of pharaohs so they could have the appropriate body needed to move on to the afterlife, and so on, and I bet that they abandoned all of this once science and technology were introduced and evolved to disprove many of these things.

No one in history has ever had either of those chromosome combinations as far as I'm aware.[/quote:kawzyps6]
Then what is your basis for a binary system if its not based on anything "from the past"? What about the very modern examples like japan that celebrates fluid sexuality, and no greese and rome did not abandoned non binary persons as technology evolved it cannot be compared to religiious culture which changed every time a new army took over a town because non binary was an understood norm.[/quote:kawzyps6]

What genders do Japan have besides male and female?

Also leaving it blank is not removing it, it would be like if the options for race included everything but yours, and you had no option to add it, so you had to leave it blank when identifying yourself, how would that feel?

Unlike the stuff you're making up, there's proof that race/skin-color exists. You on the other hand have yet to show people with the supposed "YY" and "XXY" chromosomes you keep bringing up.

[quote="Renji Asuka":12kbuyps]I really wanted to stay out of this debate entirely and frankly this thread should had been locked earlier. I been around twitter too long dealing with LGBTQ+ nonsense. But I'm left with no choice.

First, let's cut the crap regarding "Gender is a social construct"

The idea that gender is a social construct is relatively new by a very screwed up individuals being one of the founders to the idea. John Money, who raised a pair of twin boys. One as a boy, and one as a girl. He forced the one that was raised as a girl to be in sexual submissive poses while taking pictures, forced to grow their hair out, forced to wear dresses and play with dolls. He declared his experiment as a success.

Meanwhile the one raised as a girl played with his brother's toys in secret. 1 twin died from drug overdose. The other died from blowing his brains out with a sawn off shotgun.

If you still believe that gender is a social construct after learning this, then you quite literally support this experiment which would show how terrible of a person you really are.

Also important to note: DO NOT GIVE IN TO THE DELUSIONS OF THE MENTALLY ILL. Would you give into the delusions of a schizophrenic person? No, it's dangerous for everyone involved. Why would you do the same for people who don't know which bathroom to use? Do not expect me to call you by your preferred crap. If you have a fully functional vagina, you are a woman. End of story. If you have a fully functional penis you are a man. End of story. A woman cannot be a man and a man cannot be a woman. There is no "ands, if's or but" about it.[/quote:12kbuyps]
So ignore the fact that heteronormative behavior like "pray the gay away" camps do the same thing... no it isnt a modern concept, infact it was only really an issue around Regans run as president in his "war on drugs" which was confirmed to be about breaking up gay and black communities by associating them strictly to drugs crime and sexual hedinism.

Just be polite and ask others to do the same. If they don't, ask them why. Have a conversation with these people because getting to know each other is how we get people to stop assuming they know more about you and your position

[quote="Christen57":29te6bp7][quote="Excellion":29te6bp7][quote="Christen57":29te6bp7]

You do have the option to hide your gender as multiple people already pointed out that you can leave the thing blank instead of picking male or female. That counts as "removing it" and thus fits your criteria of it being "removed".





No one in history has ever had either of those chromosome combinations as far as I'm aware.[/quote:29te6bp7]
Then what is your basis for a binary system if its not based on anything "from the past"? What about the very modern examples like japan that celebrates fluid sexuality, and no greese and rome did not abandoned non binary persons as technology evolved it cannot be compared to religiious culture which changed every time a new army took over a town because non binary was an understood norm.[/quote:29te6bp7]

What genders do Japan have besides male and female?

Also leaving it blank is not removing it, it would be like if the options for race included everything but yours, and you had no option to add it, so you had to leave it blank when identifying yourself, how would that feel?

Unlike the stuff you're making up, there's proof that race/skin-color exists. You on the other hand have yet to show people with the supposed "YY" and "XXY" chromosomes you keep bringing up.[/quote:29te6bp7]
Third gender is "Wakashu" and i literally cited a medical journal discussing people with xxy chromosones and intersexal previously but heres another one:

https://www.jstor.org/stable/3813612

[quote="PENMASTER":1z2gvamp][quote="Excellion":1z2gvamp][quote="PENMASTER":1z2gvamp]gonna be honest just because you are some freak that doesn't fit nicely into 1 or the other category doesn't mean that categorization is wrong, there are always outliers to say otherwise but 1 in a million people can't change the whole way to categorize things. im sure even if you don't fit nicely there are ways to categorize you but if you are an outlier you don't change a thing[/quote:1z2gvamp]
And yet we make special products to accomidate ginger people who are 1.5% of the population, between 2 and 3%of children are born disabled yet we still make accomidations for them, so are you calling them entitled? also by that logic humans make up less than 1% of the total population of the earth? Yet we change things to make it easier for us.[/quote:1z2gvamp]
1 for gingers its a fucking hair color and its an easy market to get buyers and in certain counties people don't make products for them cause different countries have different concentrations of red heads.
2 depending on the disability yea we put to many resources into them.
3 we are the top dogs on the planet and a similar number applies to most other shit.
in the end no one is entitled to shit for others[/quote:1z2gvamp]
Just wanted to add onto 3.

Humans aren't the only species that changes the environment around them to suit their needs.

[quote="PENMASTER":1h73oc75]if non binary shit has been around for hundreds of years, I would have known about it. other than gods not having confirmed genders or are more of a concept or place, I really doubt anything like that could be applied anywhere else people understood what is the truth and what is delusion and sadly that's dying out now.

on the whole transgender athlete thing, the whole testosterone level thing doesn't really matter now due to them going their whole lives on that boost and its effects don't just disappear they probably wont be as good before they transitioned but they will never be on the same level as the avg women.

with the thing about violence against trans people in bathrooms and I cant exactly say im against that, they are in a place they shouldn't be and their delusion doesn't change the rules so people enforce them and we ignore the opportunity predators get to assualt people using this as an excuse to get in. also, we just gonna ignore discrimination against people in the workplace just because they feel uncomfortable with these people in their bathrooms and the laws mandating certain amounts of people are dumb aswell.

no one should have to take part in your delusion end of story.[/quote:1h73oc75]
Then no one should have to participate in the "delusion" of a binary system either, which is why it should be removed.

[quote="Excellion":7cbhe5j8][quote="Renji Asuka":7cbhe5j8]I really wanted to stay out of this debate entirely and frankly this thread should had been locked earlier. I been around twitter too long dealing with LGBTQ+ nonsense. But I'm left with no choice.

First, let's cut the crap regarding "Gender is a social construct"

The idea that gender is a social construct is relatively new by a very screwed up individuals being one of the founders to the idea. John Money, who raised a pair of twin boys. One as a boy, and one as a girl. He forced the one that was raised as a girl to be in sexual submissive poses while taking pictures, forced to grow their hair out, forced to wear dresses and play with dolls. He declared his experiment as a success.

Meanwhile the one raised as a girl played with his brother's toys in secret. 1 twin died from drug overdose. The other died from blowing his brains out with a sawn off shotgun.

If you still believe that gender is a social construct after learning this, then you quite literally support this experiment which would show how terrible of a person you really are.

Also important to note: DO NOT GIVE IN TO THE DELUSIONS OF THE MENTALLY ILL. Would you give into the delusions of a schizophrenic person? No, it's dangerous for everyone involved. Why would you do the same for people who don't know which bathroom to use? Do not expect me to call you by your preferred crap. If you have a fully functional vagina, you are a woman. End of story. If you have a fully functional penis you are a man. End of story. A woman cannot be a man and a man cannot be a woman. There is no "ands, if's or but" about it.[/quote:7cbhe5j8]
So ignore the fact that heteronormative behavior like "pray the gay away" camps do the same thing... no it isnt a modern concept, infact it was only really an issue around Regans run as president in his "war on drugs" which was confirmed to be about breaking up gay and black communities by associating them strictly to drugs crime and sexual hedinism.[/quote:7cbhe5j8]
Did I stutter?

[quote="PENMASTER":3ohbpb14][quote="Excellion":3ohbpb14][quote="PENMASTER":3ohbpb14]gonna be honest just because you are some freak that doesn't fit nicely into 1 or the other category doesn't mean that categorization is wrong, there are always outliers to say otherwise but 1 in a million people can't change the whole way to categorize things. im sure even if you don't fit nicely there are ways to categorize you but if you are an outlier you don't change a thing[/quote:3ohbpb14]
And yet we make special products to accomidate ginger people who are 1.5% of the population, between 2 and 3%of children are born disabled yet we still make accomidations for them, so are you calling them entitled? also by that logic humans make up less than 1% of the total population of the earth? Yet we change things to make it easier for us.[/quote:3ohbpb14]
1 for gingers its a fucking hair color and its an easy market to get buyers and in certain counties people don't make products for them cause different countries have different concentrations of red heads.
2 depending on the disability yea we put to many resources into them.
3 we are the top dogs on the planet and a similar number applies to most other shit.
in the end no one is entitled to shit for others[/quote:3ohbpb14]
1. There is a market for gender neautral and gender fluid clothes even for people who arent non binary.
2.yea.. we put a lot of resources into 2-3% of the populations... so are they "entitled", if not: why are they then different from non binary people, if so, youre a bad person.
3. We are less than 1% of the population yet all change to the earth is for our betterment, does that mean every human is entitled?

[quote="Excellion":rgsqd2ds]1. There is a market for gender neautral and gender fluid clothes even for people who arent non binary.[/quote:rgsqd2ds]
#WomenWantPocketsToo

So to sum up your arguments:
"Non binary isnt real"
Yes they are, biologically there are, socially there are, there are medical journals discussing these facts that ive now listed several times discussing them.
"We shouldnt be accomidating a few people"
First off, i thought you said there werent any "non-binarys" now there are but theyre a minority? And you dont want to give them something as small as a drop down menu option... well if youve met a person who has red hair, its as likely youve met someone who is intersex.
"There is an option to remove your gender, leave it blank"
Theres an option to leave a blank comment, do you feel included in the co versation if you do? No? Funny how that works.
"We shouldnt change for some new fad"
Well 1. Its not new has existed for thousands of years in cultures all over the world in some of the most civilized nations of the world.
"Just because old cultures did it doesnt make it right"
But i thought you said its a "new fad" also, society is built off older cultures, so what are we then basing the binary system on if not something older?

In summery, youre all entitled hypocrites.

[quote="greg503":shqajq71][quote="Excellion":shqajq71]1. There is a market for gender neautral and gender fluid clothes even for people who arent non binary.[/quote:shqajq71]
#WomenWantPocketsToo[/quote:shqajq71]
The fact that women can't get good pants with pockets really irks me.

[quote="Excellion":3p4uvkll][quote="Christen57":3p4uvkll][quote="Excellion":3p4uvkll]
1.7% of the total population is.
https://www.americanprogress.org/articl ... variations.[/quote:3p4uvkll]

You have to use [url] tags when linking stuff or else the url will be replaced with "..."

You do it like this:

[code:3p4uvkll][url]www.example.com[/url][/code:3p4uvkll]

So it appears as this:

[url:3p4uvkll]http://www.example.com[/url:3p4uvkll][/quote:3p4uvkll]
[url:3p4uvkll]https://www.americanprogress.org/article/key-issues-facing-people-intersex-traits/#:~:text=It%20is%20estimated%20that%20up,identifiable%20sexual%20or%20reproductive%20variations[/url:3p4uvkll]
Thank you.[/quote:3p4uvkll]

So your source is saying a few people are estimated to have "an intersex trait". Does it say what chromosome combinations these people were born with?

people see "memeglish" as their primary language on their account and thats fine

I'm guessing this is because there are over 90 different languages in existence, so duelingbook's staff decided to let people type their language instead of putting dropdown menus for all 90+ of them, whereas with genders, since there are only 2 of those, it's easier to put a dropdown menu for those 2.

but youre really gonna be offended if someone puts "attack helicopter' as their gender?

No. I'm gonna think that person's trolling or trying to be funny like how I find it funny people are listing Memeglish as their language.

Third gender is "Wakashu" and i literally cited a medical journal discussing people with xxy chromosones and intersexal previously

You only cited these so far in this thread:
[url:3p4uvkll]https://www.americanprogress.org/article/key-issues-facing-people-intersex-traits/[/url:3p4uvkll]
[url:3p4uvkll]https://www.apa.org/pi/ses/resources/publications/lgbt[/url:3p4uvkll]
[url:3p4uvkll]https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/press/ncvs-lgbt-violence-press-release/[/url:3p4uvkll]
None of which mention anything about anyone with specifically XXY or YY chromosomes... or do I have to check an additional thing cited within one of these 3 articles to find it?

but heres another one:
[url:3p4uvkll]https://www.jstor.org/stable/3813612[/url:3p4uvkll]

This source confirms that some males can be born with certain physical genitalia which appear to be female-looking, and vice versa, but it still confirms what Genexwrecker and myself have been telling you: That regardless of what these things are you're born with, you're still ultimately male if you have XY chromosomes and female if you have XX chromosomes.

Then no one should have to participate in the "delusion" of a binary system either, which is why it should be removed.

But in order for living beings to reproduce, it has to be clear to both genders who's male and who's female, which is why you don't see a male and another male (or a female and another female) attempting to reproduce. That's not a delusion. That's basic biology. In reproduction, the male is responsible for fertilizing the woman's egg. If a female thinks she is male, she will expect to be able to fertilize another woman's egg, and if a male thinks he is female, he's expect to be fertilized by another man. Humanity can't reproduce if people think like this.

"Just because old cultures did it doesnt make it right"
But i thought you said its a "new fad" also

New in North America. Old in those Roman, Greek, and Japanese locations you listed.

In summery, youre all entitled hypocrites.

Insulting us doesn't help your case and makes us less likely to listen to you and actually implement the change(s) you've suggested.

in the end no one is ever entitled to anything unless they were promised it or worked for it anything else just because you feel like it or were born a certain way you will never be entitled to anything

[quote="PENMASTER":7rwxvnu1]in the end no one is ever entitled to anything unless they were promised it or worked for it anything else just because you feel like it or were born a certain way you will never be entitled to anything[/quote:7rwxvnu1]
Disabled people are accommodated with alternate mobility options or information options and should be.

[quote="Excellion":zl71dood][quote="PENMASTER":zl71dood][quote="Excellion":zl71dood]
And yet we make special products to accomidate ginger people who are 1.5% of the population, between 2 and 3%of children are born disabled yet we still make accomidations for them, so are you calling them entitled? also by that logic humans make up less than 1% of the total population of the earth? Yet we change things to make it easier for us.[/quote:zl71dood]
1 for gingers its a fucking hair color and its an easy market to get buyers and in certain counties people don't make products for them cause different countries have different concentrations of red heads.
2 depending on the disability yea we put to many resources into them.
3 we are the top dogs on the planet and a similar number applies to most other shit.
in the end no one is entitled to shit for others[/quote:zl71dood]
1. There is a market for gender neautral and gender fluid clothes even for people who arent non binary.
2.yea.. we put a lot of resources into 2-3% of the populations... so are they "entitled", if not: why are they then different from non binary people, if so, youre a bad person.
3. We are less than 1% of the population yet all change to the earth is for our betterment, does that mean every human is entitled?[/quote:zl71dood]
lol did you really compare non binary people to the disabled. they arent entitled just because someone was born that way and even worse for you, you choose to feel that way so you arent entitled to anyone else's work or having something changed cause it doesn't accommodate what you feel

[quote="Christen57":4ggwgd3k][quote="Excellion":4ggwgd3k][quote="Christen57":4ggwgd3k]

You have to use [url] tags when linking stuff or else the url will be replaced with "..."

You do it like this:

[code:4ggwgd3k][url]www.example.com[/url][/code:4ggwgd3k]

So it appears as this:

[url:4ggwgd3k]http://www.example.com[/url:4ggwgd3k][/quote:4ggwgd3k]
[url:4ggwgd3k]https://www.americanprogress.org/article/key-issues-facing-people-intersex-traits/#:~:text=It%20is%20estimated%20that%20up,identifiable%20sexual%20or%20reproductive%20variations[/url:4ggwgd3k]
Thank you.[/quote:4ggwgd3k]

So your source is saying a few people are estimated to have "an intersex trait". Does it say what chromosome combinations these people were born with?

Yes, it does and xxy chromsomes even have a name, its called "Klinefelter syndrome" https://medlineplus.gov/genetics/condition/klinefelter-syndrome/

people see "memeglish" as their primary language on their account and thats fine

Then why would it matter what they put as their gender? What issues would arrise from letting people put whatever they want? Its not a coding issue, it would just be copy paste the code for the textbox entry from the "language" setting and pasting it into the "gender" element, deleting the dropdown element and making sure it gets checked when viewing a profile.

I'm guessing this is because there are over 90 different languages in existence, so duelingbook's staff decided to let people type their language instead of putting dropdown menus for all 90+ of them, whereas with genders, since there are only 2 of those, it's easier to put a dropdown menu for those 2.

It wouldnt be, see above example, would take 10 minutes to change in html5.

but youre really gonna be offended if someone puts "attack helicopter' as their gender?

No. I'm gonna think that person's trolling or trying to be funny like how I find it funny people are listing Memeglish as their language.

Right... then why shouldnt gender be any different?

Third gender is "Wakashu" and i literally cited a medical journal discussing people with xxy chromosones and intersexal previously

You only cited these so far in this thread:
[url:4ggwgd3k]https://www.americanprogress.org/article/key-issues-facing-people-intersex-traits/[/url:4ggwgd3k]
[url:4ggwgd3k]https://www.apa.org/pi/ses/resources/publications/lgbt[/url:4ggwgd3k]
[url:4ggwgd3k]https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/press/ncvs-lgbt-violence-press-release/[/url:4ggwgd3k]
None of which mention anything about anyone with specifically XXY or YY chromosomes... or do I have to check an additional thing cited within one of these 3 articles to find it?

"Lost third gender of japan" covers it.

but heres another one:
[url:4ggwgd3k]https://www.jstor.org/stable/3813612[/url:4ggwgd3k]

This source confirms that some males can be born with certain physical genitalia which appear to be female-looking, and vice versa, but it still confirms what Genexwrecker and myself have been telling you: That regardless of what these things are you're born with, you're still ultimately male if you have XY chromosomes and female if you have XX chromosomes.

Not genetically... which was the point youre bith trying to make, if its a binary system then there are only xy or xx, if its xxy or xyy or yy, it is not, by your definition, a male or female, thats the point.

Then no one should have to participate in the "delusion" of a binary system either, which is why it should be removed.

But in order for living beings to reproduce, it has to be clear to both genders who's male and who's female, which is why you don't see a male and another male (or a female and another female) attempting to reproduce. That's not a delusion. That's basic biology. In reproduction, the male is responsible for fertilizing the woman's egg. If a female thinks she is male, she will expect to be able to fertilize another woman's egg, and if a male thinks he is female, he's expect to be fertilized by another man. Humanity can't reproduce if people think like this.

Yes, they can artifical incemination can be done between 2 females using bone marrow to inceminate an egg, the product is always a women but there are no birth defects... nice try thiught.

"Just because old cultures did it doesnt make it right"
But i thought you said its a "new fad" also

New in North America. Old in those Roman, Greek, and Japanese locations you listed.

First off who decides what is considered "new" and "old" and who said north america sets the standards for social norms?

In summery, youre all entitled hypocrites.

Insulting us doesn't help your case and makes us less likely to listen to you and actually implement the change(s) you've suggested.

[/quote:4ggwgd3k]
So the people calling none binaries freaks misfits entitled amd defects cant stand being called entitled hypocrites...? Shocker.

[quote="PENMASTER":ssssf2av]in the end no one is ever entitled to anything unless they were promised it or worked for it anything else just because you feel like it or were born a certain way you will never be entitled to anything[/quote:ssssf2av]
And what exactly have you done to earn your basic human rights?

[quote="Excellion":b44z5tok][quote="PENMASTER":b44z5tok]in the end no one is ever entitled to anything unless they were promised it or worked for it anything else just because you feel like it or were born a certain way you will never be entitled to anything[/quote:b44z5tok]
And what exactly have you done to earn your basic human rights?[/quote:b44z5tok]
You don't EARN rights. They'd be a privilege at that point.

[quote="PENMASTER":3975uz90][quote="Excellion":3975uz90][quote="PENMASTER":3975uz90]
1 for gingers its a fucking hair color and its an easy market to get buyers and in certain counties people don't make products for them cause different countries have different concentrations of red heads.
2 depending on the disability yea we put to many resources into them.
3 we are the top dogs on the planet and a similar number applies to most other shit.
in the end no one is entitled to shit for others[/quote:3975uz90]
1. There is a market for gender neautral and gender fluid clothes even for people who arent non binary.
2.yea.. we put a lot of resources into 2-3% of the populations... so are they "entitled", if not: why are they then different from non binary people, if so, youre a bad person.
3. We are less than 1% of the population yet all change to the earth is for our betterment, does that mean every human is entitled?[/quote:3975uz90]
lol did you really compare non binary people to the disabled. they arent entitled just because someone was born that way and even worse for you, you choose to feel that way so you arent entitled to anyone else's work or having something changed cause it doesn't accommodate what you feel[/quote:3975uz90]
Then you arent entitled to an opinion on the subject as youve dont nothing to earn one?

[quote="Renji Asuka":3mdiamu3][quote="Excellion":3mdiamu3][quote="PENMASTER":3mdiamu3]in the end no one is ever entitled to anything unless they were promised it or worked for it anything else just because you feel like it or were born a certain way you will never be entitled to anything[/quote:3mdiamu3]
And what exactly have you done to earn your basic human rights?[/quote:3mdiamu3]
You don't EARN rights. They'd be a privilege at that point.[/quote:3mdiamu3]
And its someones right to identify and govern their own bodies, it goes both ways.

[quote="Excellion":qwu79bos][quote="PENMASTER":qwu79bos][quote="Excellion":qwu79bos]
1. There is a market for gender neautral and gender fluid clothes even for people who arent non binary.
2.yea.. we put a lot of resources into 2-3% of the populations... so are they "entitled", if not: why are they then different from non binary people, if so, youre a bad person.
3. We are less than 1% of the population yet all change to the earth is for our betterment, does that mean every human is entitled?[/quote:qwu79bos]
lol did you really compare non binary people to the disabled. they arent entitled just because someone was born that way and even worse for you, you choose to feel that way so you arent entitled to anyone else's work or having something changed cause it doesn't accommodate what you feel[/quote:qwu79bos]
Then you arent entitled to an opinion on the subject as youve dont nothing to earn one?[/quote:qwu79bos]
Do not compare opinions which are just thoughts to rights...it makes for a weak argument and makes you look a little crazy.

[quote="Excellion":141ln6ex][quote="Renji Asuka":141ln6ex][quote="Excellion":141ln6ex]
And what exactly have you done to earn your basic human rights?[/quote:141ln6ex]
You don't EARN rights. They'd be a privilege at that point.[/quote:141ln6ex]
And its someones right to identify and govern their own bodies, it goes both ways.[/quote:141ln6ex]
In the U.S. Constitution, point me to a right where I can identify as a fish.

On a side note, I remember reading an article where a chinese family (in China mind you), placed their child effectively in a chicken coop. The child grew up with those chickens. The child had clucked like a chicken, moved like a chicken, and acted like a chicken by the time authorities went in to help him.

Would you by chance, say he is a chicken @Excellion?

[quote="Excellion":14efgsq3][quote="PENMASTER":14efgsq3]in the end no one is ever entitled to anything unless they were promised it or worked for it anything else just because you feel like it or were born a certain way you will never be entitled to anything[/quote:14efgsq3]
And what exactly have you done to earn your basic human rights?[/quote:14efgsq3]
who said I believe in them

[quote="Excellion":qkcrf3a1][quote="PENMASTER":qkcrf3a1][quote="Excellion":qkcrf3a1]
1. There is a market for gender neautral and gender fluid clothes even for people who arent non binary.
2.yea.. we put a lot of resources into 2-3% of the populations... so are they "entitled", if not: why are they then different from non binary people, if so, youre a bad person.
3. We are less than 1% of the population yet all change to the earth is for our betterment, does that mean every human is entitled?[/quote:qkcrf3a1]
lol did you really compare non binary people to the disabled. they arent entitled just because someone was born that way and even worse for you, you choose to feel that way so you arent entitled to anyone else's work or having something changed cause it doesn't accommodate what you feel[/quote:qkcrf3a1]
Then you arent entitled to an opinion on the subject as youve dont nothing to earn one?[/quote:qkcrf3a1]
who said opinions have anything to do with entitlement

This all started because someone wanted an extra option in the gender thing. Honestly, quite incredible.

[quote="Lil Oldman":14h4vny8]This all started because someone wanted an extra option in the gender thing. Honestly, quite incredible.[/quote:14h4vny8]
Yeah...People on the internet are insane...

[quote="Renji Asuka":1hj94w7v]On a side note, I remember reading an article where a chinese family (in China mind you), placed their child effectively in a chicken coop. The child grew up with those chickens. The child had clucked like a chicken, moved like a chicken, and acted like a chicken by the time authorities went in to help him.

Would you by chance, say he is a chicken @Excellion?[/quote:1hj94w7v]

This reminds me of a fable about an eagle who hatched in a chicken coop, and as a result, grew up thinking he was a chicken. I recommend googling it, because there are multiple versions of the story.

Was the eagle a chicken? No, of course not, anyone passing by the chicken coop could clearly see that it was an eagle. But to the chickens and to the eagle, he was no eagle, just an abmormally large chicken, because the life of a chicken was all they knew.

Some versions introduce a visitor who sees the eagle and takes the eagle under their care, in order to teach the eagle how to be an eagle. In other versions the eagle dies in the chicken coop, never realizing his true nature.

The way I interpret the story, it's ultimately up to the individual to discover themselves. Mentors/Teachers/Societal expectations may serve as guides to life, but it's ultimately up to you to decide who you are. Discover yourself. Don't let others decide who you are.

[quote="Excellion":39wfj4fo][quote="Renji Asuka":39wfj4fo][quote="Excellion":39wfj4fo]
And what exactly have you done to earn your basic human rights?[/quote:39wfj4fo]
You don't EARN rights. They'd be a privilege at that point.[/quote:39wfj4fo]
And its someones right to identify and govern their own bodies, it goes both ways.[/quote:39wfj4fo]
Your gender has little to do with your body and more to do with personal feelings, same with sexuality. Also that "right" is (about to be) a little shaky in some of the States

[quote="Renji Asuka":21pgzdai][quote="Excellion":21pgzdai][quote="PENMASTER":21pgzdai]
lol did you really compare non binary people to the disabled. they arent entitled just because someone was born that way and even worse for you, you choose to feel that way so you arent entitled to anyone else's work or having something changed cause it doesn't accommodate what you feel[/quote:21pgzdai]
Then you arent entitled to an opinion on the subject as youve dont nothing to earn one?[/quote:21pgzdai]
Do not compare opinions which are just thoughts to rights...it makes for a weak argument and makes you look a little crazy.[/quote:21pgzdai]
It is a Right to voice your opinion. But its a privlage to do so on here since "privlages have to be earned" i want to know what they did to earn it. Like they said.

[quote="Excellion":283r2e7z][quote="Renji Asuka":283r2e7z][quote="Excellion":283r2e7z]
Then you arent entitled to an opinion on the subject as youve dont nothing to earn one?[/quote:283r2e7z]
Do not compare opinions which are just thoughts to rights...it makes for a weak argument and makes you look a little crazy.[/quote:283r2e7z]
It is a Right to voice your opinion. But its a privlage to do so on here since "privlages have to be earned" i want to know what they did to earn it. Like they said.[/quote:283r2e7z]
I never said anything like earning the right to speak on db I said if you think your entitled to something you earned it or were promised it, your taking that and twisting it to fit some bullshit arguement

[quote="Excellion":1hjwih8c][quote="Renji Asuka":1hjwih8c][quote="Excellion":1hjwih8c]
Then you arent entitled to an opinion on the subject as youve dont nothing to earn one?[/quote:1hjwih8c]
Do not compare opinions which are just thoughts to rights...it makes for a weak argument and makes you look a little crazy.[/quote:1hjwih8c]
It is a Right to voice your opinion. But its a privlage to do so on here since "privlages have to be earned" i want to know what they did to earn it. Like they said.[/quote:1hjwih8c]
This forum is considered a private entity and we do not actually have the right to voice any opinions here for that matter.

I can have the opinion that X should be executed because of Y and the Admins would instantly ban me if I stated such as it can be seen as a death threat.

I can also have the opinion that you are mentally ill, and depending on how I go about it, I can be punished for "harassment".

[quote="troglyte":39irgbod][quote="Renji Asuka":39irgbod]On a side note, I remember reading an article where a chinese family (in China mind you), placed their child effectively in a chicken coop. The child grew up with those chickens. The child had clucked like a chicken, moved like a chicken, and acted like a chicken by the time authorities went in to help him.

Would you by chance, say he is a chicken @Excellion?[/quote:39irgbod]

This reminds me of a fable about an eagle who hatched in a chicken coop, and as a result, grew up thinking he was a chicken. I recommend googling it, because there are multiple versions of the story.

Was the eagle a chicken? No, of course not, anyone passing by the chicken coop could clearly see that it was an eagle. But to the chickens and to the eagle, he was no eagle, just an abmormally large chicken, because the life of a chicken was all they knew.

Some versions introduce a visitor who sees the eagle and takes the eagle under their care, in order to teach the eagle how to be an eagle. In other versions the eagle dies in the chicken coop, never realizing his true nature.

The way I interpret the story, it's ultimately up to the individual to discover themselves. Mentors/Teachers/Societal expectations may serve as guides to life, but it's ultimately up to you to decide who you are. Discover yourself. Don't let others decide who you are.[/quote:39irgbod]
Didn't even know about that fable. That sounds like a good story to tell to my children (if I had any).

[quote="greg503":1nfejoju][quote="Excellion":1nfejoju][quote="Renji Asuka":1nfejoju]
You don't EARN rights. They'd be a privilege at that point.[/quote:1nfejoju]
And its someones right to identify and govern their own bodies, it goes both ways.[/quote:1nfejoju]
Your gender has little to do with your body and more to do with personal feelings, same with sexuality. Also that "right" is (about to be) a little shaky in some of the States[/quote:1nfejoju]
Then no one should be allowed to identify as anything. Also if we are discrediting laws for potentially being overturned then why following any laws ever?

[quote="Renji Asuka":32vhp2fa]On a side note, I remember reading an article where a chinese family (in China mind you), placed their child effectively in a chicken coop. The child grew up with those chickens. The child had clucked like a chicken, moved like a chicken, and acted like a chicken by the time authorities went in to help him.

Would you by chance, say he is a chicken @Excellion?[/quote:32vhp2fa]
Would you... by chance have the actual article that is peer reviewed by a scientific authority... no? Didnt think so.

[quote="PENMASTER":2l6eqtmh][quote="Excellion":2l6eqtmh][quote="Renji Asuka":2l6eqtmh]
Do not compare opinions which are just thoughts to rights...it makes for a weak argument and makes you look a little crazy.[/quote:2l6eqtmh]
It is a Right to voice your opinion. But its a privlage to do so on here since "privlages have to be earned" i want to know what they did to earn it. Like they said.[/quote:2l6eqtmh]
I never said anything like earning the right to speak on db I said if you think your entitled to something you earned it or were promised it, your taking that and twisting it to fit some bullshit arguement[/quote:2l6eqtmh]
You werent promised a voice in this conversation, again what did you do to earn it? If its nothing than by your logic you should leave the conversation

[quote="Renji Asuka":38tc37ye][quote="Excellion":38tc37ye][quote="Renji Asuka":38tc37ye]
Do not compare opinions which are just thoughts to rights...it makes for a weak argument and makes you look a little crazy.[/quote:38tc37ye]
It is a Right to voice your opinion. But its a privlage to do so on here since "privlages have to be earned" i want to know what they did to earn it. Like they said.[/quote:38tc37ye]
This forum is considered a private entity and we do not actually have the right to voice any opinions here for that matter.

I can have the opinion that X should be executed because of Y and the Admins would instantly ban me if I stated such as it can be seen as a death threat.

I can also have the opinion that you are mentally ill, and depending on how I go about it, I can be punished for "harassment".[/quote:38tc37ye]
I would say that is exaftly harrassment and i think i will report you, thanks

[quote="Lil Oldman":bnl8nd59]This all started because someone wanted an extra option in the gender thing. Honestly, quite incredible.[/quote:bnl8nd59]
Yes because apparently its too hard to add single line of text in a dropdown element on an html5 script, which would take 2/3 minutes, theyd rather call people who are non binary names behind online aliases

[quote="PENMASTER":2s619s3e][quote="Excellion":2s619s3e][quote="PENMASTER":2s619s3e]
1 for gingers its a fucking hair color and its an easy market to get buyers and in certain counties people don't make products for them cause different countries have different concentrations of red heads.
2 depending on the disability yea we put to many resources into them.
3 we are the top dogs on the planet and a similar number applies to most other shit.
in the end no one is entitled to shit for others[/quote:2s619s3e]
1. There is a market for gender neautral and gender fluid clothes even for people who arent non binary.
2.yea.. we put a lot of resources into 2-3% of the populations... so are they "entitled", if not: why are they then different from non binary people, if so, youre a bad person.
3. We are less than 1% of the population yet all change to the earth is for our betterment, does that mean every human is entitled?[/quote:2s619s3e]
lol did you really compare non binary people to the disabled. they arent entitled just because someone was born that way and even worse for you, you choose to feel that way so you arent entitled to anyone else's work or having something changed cause it doesn't accommodate what you feel[/quote:2s619s3e]
Did you really just cherry pick the entire conversation, the argument was "why should accomidations be made for such a small part of the population" my responce is "because we already make accomidations for other people who are in smaller parts of the community with 0 issue."

[quote="Excellion":2745vumn][quote="PENMASTER":2745vumn][quote="Excellion":2745vumn]
It is a Right to voice your opinion. But its a privlage to do so on here since "privlages have to be earned" i want to know what they did to earn it. Like they said.[/quote:2745vumn]
I never said anything like earning the right to speak on db I said if you think your entitled to something you earned it or were promised it, your taking that and twisting it to fit some bullshit arguement[/quote:2745vumn]
You werent promised a voice in this conversation, again what did you do to earn it? If its nothing than by your logic you should leave the conversation[/quote:2745vumn]
you seem to have not seen my other post going over this exact thing

[quote="Excellion":3czceyb7][quote="PENMASTER":3czceyb7][quote="Excellion":3czceyb7]
1. There is a market for gender neautral and gender fluid clothes even for people who arent non binary.
2.yea.. we put a lot of resources into 2-3% of the populations... so are they "entitled", if not: why are they then different from non binary people, if so, youre a bad person.
3. We are less than 1% of the population yet all change to the earth is for our betterment, does that mean every human is entitled?[/quote:3czceyb7]
lol did you really compare non binary people to the disabled. they arent entitled just because someone was born that way and even worse for you, you choose to feel that way so you arent entitled to anyone else's work or having something changed cause it doesn't accommodate what you feel[/quote:3czceyb7]
Did you really just cherry pick the entire conversation, the argument was "why should accomidations be made for such a small part of the population" my responce is "because we already make accomidations for other people who are in smaller parts of the community with 0 issue."[/quote:3czceyb7]
no one cherry-picked shit. i went over the 1 thing worth going over and it was your argument that we accommodate for minorities of people what I was talking about at the start of these replies was certain groups not fitting nicely into the categories and that they don't disprove the whole system and looking back on it you just pulled the ginger and disabled shit out of nowhere

[quote="Excellion":u2rpu1ic][quote="Renji Asuka":u2rpu1ic]On a side note, I remember reading an article where a chinese family (in China mind you), placed their child effectively in a chicken coop. The child grew up with those chickens. The child had clucked like a chicken, moved like a chicken, and acted like a chicken by the time authorities went in to help him.

Would you by chance, say he is a chicken @Excellion?[/quote:u2rpu1ic]
Would you... by chance have the actual article that is peer reviewed by a scientific authority... no? Didnt think so.[/quote:u2rpu1ic]
Why would a news article be peer reviewed by scientific authority?

Also: [url:u2rpu1ic]https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/jul/11/fiji.jennyforsyth[/url:u2rpu1ic]

[quote="Excellion":24c82gw8][quote="Renji Asuka":24c82gw8][quote="Excellion":24c82gw8]
It is a Right to voice your opinion. But its a privlage to do so on here since "privlages have to be earned" i want to know what they did to earn it. Like they said.[/quote:24c82gw8]
This forum is considered a private entity and we do not actually have the right to voice any opinions here for that matter.

I can have the opinion that X should be executed because of Y and the Admins would instantly ban me if I stated such as it can be seen as a death threat.

I can also have the opinion that you are mentally ill, and depending on how I go about it, I can be punished for "harassment".[/quote:24c82gw8]
I would say that is exaftly harrassment and i think i will report you, thanks[/quote:24c82gw8]
Your report wouldn't do anything just so you know. Especially when I used those as examples. But hey, good to know you'll misuse the report feature.

[quote="PENMASTER":1yr2dmtj][quote="Excellion":1yr2dmtj][quote="PENMASTER":1yr2dmtj]
lol did you really compare non binary people to the disabled. they arent entitled just because someone was born that way and even worse for you, you choose to feel that way so you arent entitled to anyone else's work or having something changed cause it doesn't accommodate what you feel[/quote:1yr2dmtj]
Did you really just cherry pick the entire conversation, the argument was "why should accomidations be made for such a small part of the population" my responce is "because we already make accomidations for other people who are in smaller parts of the community with 0 issue."[/quote:1yr2dmtj]
no one cherry-picked shit. i went over the 1 thing worth going over and it was your argument that we accommodate for minorities of people what I was talking about at the start of these replies was certain groups not fitting nicely into the categories and that they don't disprove the whole system and looking back on it you just pulled the ginger and disabled shit out of nowhere[/quote:1yr2dmtj]
Really because no where did you reference the actual point of comparison, which is population size.

[quote="Excellion":mvibk6bw][quote="PENMASTER":mvibk6bw][quote="Excellion":mvibk6bw]
Did you really just cherry pick the entire conversation, the argument was "why should accomidations be made for such a small part of the population" my responce is "because we already make accomidations for other people who are in smaller parts of the community with 0 issue."[/quote:mvibk6bw]
no one cherry-picked shit. i went over the 1 thing worth going over and it was your argument that we accommodate for minorities of people what I was talking about at the start of these replies was certain groups not fitting nicely into the categories and that they don't disprove the whole system and looking back on it you just pulled the ginger and disabled shit out of nowhere[/quote:mvibk6bw]
Really because no where did you reference the actual point of comparison, which is population size.[/quote:mvibk6bw]
i answered the questions in the first reply already and had answered the question in the second reply I answered everything you asked and brought up just cause I don't go over every point again in every post doesn't mean I didnt go over it

[quote="Renji Asuka":2zxsyher][quote="Excellion":2zxsyher][quote="Renji Asuka":2zxsyher]On a side note, I remember reading an article where a chinese family (in China mind you), placed their child effectively in a chicken coop. The child grew up with those chickens. The child had clucked like a chicken, moved like a chicken, and acted like a chicken by the time authorities went in to help him.

Would you by chance, say he is a chicken @Excellion?[/quote:2zxsyher]
Would you... by chance have the actual article that is peer reviewed by a scientific authority... no? Didnt think so.[/quote:2zxsyher]
Why would a news article be peer reviewed by scientific authority?

Also: [url:2zxsyher]https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/jul/11/fiji.jennyforsyth[/url:2zxsyher][/quote:2zxsyher]
Because anyone can public an article saying anything, for example, the onion? Its not valid unless its peer reviewed

[quote="Excellion":3k6g2om6][quote="Christen57":3k6g2om6][quote="Excellion":3k6g2om6]
[url:3k6g2om6]https://www.americanprogress.org/article/key-issues-facing-people-intersex-traits/#:~:text=It%20is%20estimated%20that%20up,identifiable%20sexual%20or%20reproductive%20variations[/url:3k6g2om6]
Thank you.[/quote:3k6g2om6]

So your source is saying a few people are estimated to have "an intersex trait". Does it say what chromosome combinations these people were born with?

Yes, it does and xxy chromsomes even have a name, its called "Klinefelter syndrome" https://medlineplus.gov/genetics/condition/klinefelter-syndrome/
[/quote:3k6g2om6][/quote:3k6g2om6]

"Klinefelter syndrome is a chromosomal condition in boys and men that can affect physical and intellectual development." - your medlineplus.gov source

This would mean you having XXY chromosomes still makes you male.

[quote:3k6g2om6]people see "memeglish" as their primary language on their account and thats fine

Then why would it matter what they put as their gender?[/quote:3k6g2om6]

Because there are still only 2 genders. Male and female.

[quote:3k6g2om6]but youre really gonna be offended if someone puts "attack helicopter' as their gender?

No. I'm gonna think that person's trolling or trying to be funny like how I find it funny people are listing Memeglish as their language.

Right... then why shouldnt gender be any different?[/quote:3k6g2om6]

Because there's no need to allow any additional genders to be added besides the 2 already displayed: Male and Female.

"Lost third gender of japan" covers it.

Could you link to it?

[quote:3k6g2om6]This source confirms that some males can be born with certain physical genitalia which appear to be female-looking, and vice versa, but it still confirms what Genexwrecker and myself have been telling you: That regardless of what these things are you're born with, you're still ultimately male if you have XY chromosomes and female if you have XX chromosomes.

Not genetically... which was the point youre bith trying to make, if its a binary system then there are only xy or xx, if its xxy or xyy or yy, it is not, by your definition, a male or female, thats the point.[/quote:3k6g2om6]

If it's XXY or XYY, either of those would still make you male as you still have at least 1 Y chromosome, and YY hasn't existed as a chromosome pair in anyone so far.

[quote:3k6g2om6]Then no one should have to participate in the "delusion" of a binary system either, which is why it should be removed.

But in order for living beings to reproduce, it has to be clear to both genders who's male and who's female, which is why you don't see a male and another male (or a female and another female) attempting to reproduce. That's not a delusion. That's basic biology. In reproduction, the male is responsible for fertilizing the woman's egg. If a female thinks she is male, she will expect to be able to fertilize another woman's egg, and if a male thinks he is female, he's expect to be fertilized by another man. Humanity can't reproduce if people think like this.

Yes, they can artifical incemination can be done between 2 females using bone marrow to inceminate an egg[/quote:3k6g2om6]

Even if you extract sperm and put it in the woman to impregnate her, the sperm still requires a male to produce and donate to begin with, no?

[quote:3k6g2om6]"Just because old cultures did it doesnt make it right"
But i thought you said its a "new fad" also

New in North America. Old in those Roman, Greek, and Japanese locations you listed.

First off who decides what is considered "new" and "old" and who said north america sets the standards for social norms?[/quote:3k6g2om6]

"New" meaning, compared to the Roman, Greek, and Japanese locations you listed (which you said had this for hundreds of thousands of years or so), it hasn't been widely done before in America.

Social norms can vary somewhat from country to country and can also overlap somewhat. It can be the "social norm" in one country to make up and accept additional genders besides male and female but not in another country.

[quote="Christen57":2wpvr4rj][quote="Excellion":2wpvr4rj][quote="Christen57":2wpvr4rj]


Yes, it does and xxy chromsomes even have a name, its called "Klinefelter syndrome" https://medlineplus.gov/genetics/condition/klinefelter-syndrome/
[/quote:2wpvr4rj][/quote:2wpvr4rj]

"Klinefelter syndrome is a chromosomal condition in boys and men that can affect physical and intellectual development." - your medlineplus.gov source

This would mean you having XXY chromosomes still makes you male.

[quote:2wpvr4rj]people see "memeglish" as their primary language on their account and thats fine

Then why would it matter what they put as their gender?[/quote:2wpvr4rj]

Because there are still only 2 genders. Male and female.

[quote:2wpvr4rj]but youre really gonna be offended if someone puts "attack helicopter' as their gender?

No. I'm gonna think that person's trolling or trying to be funny like how I find it funny people are listing Memeglish as their language.

Right... then why shouldnt gender be any different?[/quote:2wpvr4rj]

Because there's no need to allow any additional genders to be added besides the 2 already displayed: Male and Female.

"Lost third gender of japan" covers it.

Could you link to it?

[quote:2wpvr4rj]This source confirms that some males can be born with certain physical genitalia which appear to be female-looking, and vice versa, but it still confirms what Genexwrecker and myself have been telling you: That regardless of what these things are you're born with, you're still ultimately male if you have XY chromosomes and female if you have XX chromosomes.

Not genetically... which was the point youre bith trying to make, if its a binary system then there are only xy or xx, if its xxy or xyy or yy, it is not, by your definition, a male or female, thats the point.[/quote:2wpvr4rj]

If it's XXY or XYY, either of those would still make you male as you still have at least 1 Y chromosome, and YY hasn't existed as a chromosome pair in anyone so far.

[quote:2wpvr4rj]Then no one should have to participate in the "delusion" of a binary system either, which is why it should be removed.

But in order for living beings to reproduce, it has to be clear to both genders who's male and who's female, which is why you don't see a male and another male (or a female and another female) attempting to reproduce. That's not a delusion. That's basic biology. In reproduction, the male is responsible for fertilizing the woman's egg. If a female thinks she is male, she will expect to be able to fertilize another woman's egg, and if a male thinks he is female, he's expect to be fertilized by another man. Humanity can't reproduce if people think like this.

Yes, they can artifical incemination can be done between 2 females using bone marrow to inceminate an egg[/quote:2wpvr4rj]

Even if you extract sperm and put it in the woman to impregnate her, the sperm still requires a male to produce and donate to begin with, no?

[quote:2wpvr4rj]"Just because old cultures did it doesnt make it right"
But i thought you said its a "new fad" also

New in North America. Old in those Roman, Greek, and Japanese locations you listed.

First off who decides what is considered "new" and "old" and who said north america sets the standards for social norms?[/quote:2wpvr4rj]

"New" meaning, compared to the Roman, Greek, and Japanese locations you listed (which you said had this for hundreds of thousands of years or so), it hasn't been widely done before in America.

Social norms can vary somewhat from country to country and can also overlap somewhat. It can be the "social norm" in one country to make up and accept additional genders besides male and female but not in another country.[/quote:2wpvr4rj]
The decriptor given for "male" and "female" as provided by genexwrecker is "xy" or "yy" which they are not.

Also no if you read what i stated insimination is between 2 females they extract bonemarrow to then fertilize an egg no sperm, no Male, no nothing.

And you are using completely subjective and arbitrary dates for what is "new" and "old" the newest nation is still roughly 40-50 years, in that tike non binary persons were a thing in egypt, in europe and in asia. Thatw left than a life time, not "new" enough for you?

If any of you actually cared about "nature" youd know that nothing in nature is a binary.

[quote="Excellion":19li0c62]If any of you actually cared about "nature" youd know that nothing in nature is a binary.[/quote:19li0c62]
there is a binary system for everything
the norm and freaks of nature. just because you can make up any system you want with technicalities doesn't make it true. there is always something that is either 1 thing or not like chemistry for example there are plenty of things that are 1 or the other, either things react or they don't, either something has charge or it doesn't, if something is by itself or not which determines things about it, there is defining factors everywhere decided by 1 or the other.

[quote="Excellion":axuxqtu5]If any of you actually cared about "nature" youd know that nothing in nature is a binary.[/quote:axuxqtu5]
So is there a chance to find an Attack Helicopter Duck in the wild o:

[quote="Excellion":2534m7p5][quote="Renji Asuka":2534m7p5][quote="Excellion":2534m7p5]
Would you... by chance have the actual article that is peer reviewed by a scientific authority... no? Didnt think so.[/quote:2534m7p5]
Why would a news article be peer reviewed by scientific authority?

Also: [url:2534m7p5]https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/jul/11/fiji.jennyforsyth[/url:2534m7p5][/quote:2534m7p5]
Because anyone can public an article saying anything, for example, the onion? Its not valid unless its peer reviewed[/quote:2534m7p5]
Imagine comparing satirical websites that state they are satirical to actual news articles...

[quote="Renji Asuka":1bzq4stk][quote="Excellion":1bzq4stk][quote="Renji Asuka":1bzq4stk]
Why would a news article be peer reviewed by scientific authority?

Also: [url:1bzq4stk]https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/jul/11/fiji.jennyforsyth[/url:1bzq4stk][/quote:1bzq4stk]
Because anyone can public an article saying anything, for example, the onion? Its not valid unless its peer reviewed[/quote:1bzq4stk]
Imagine comparing satirical websites that state they are satirical to actual news articles...[/quote:1bzq4stk]
imagine beliving an article without a reliable source, i got a bridge to sell you.

[quote="PENMASTER":31fikr1z][quote="Excellion":31fikr1z]If any of you actually cared about "nature" youd know that nothing in nature is a binary.[/quote:31fikr1z]
there is a binary system for everything
the norm and freaks of nature. just because you can make up any system you want with technicalities doesn't make it true. there is always something that is either 1 thing or not like chemistry for example there are plenty of things that are 1 or the other, either things react or they don't, either something has charge or it doesn't, if something is by itself or not which determines things about it, there is defining factors everywhere decided by 1 or the other.[/quote:31fikr1z]
what are you actually talking about? There are no binaries everything is transitional, everything is on a spectrum because thats how nature works the "freaks" are adapting traits to better survive their environment. because thats how nature works, but you dont care about "nature" unless it perpetuates your beliefs.
Even chemistry, there is a Sectrum some things react more than others, some dont, some do slightly, that is called a spectrum, which means its not binary.
"change" isnt an instant thing either in nature, its always always transitional, again, not binary.

[quote="PENMASTER":xyigdene][quote="Excellion":xyigdene]If any of you actually cared about "nature" youd know that nothing in nature is a binary.[/quote:xyigdene]
there is a binary system for everything
the norm and freaks of nature. just because you can make up any system you want with technicalities doesn't make it true. there is always something that is either 1 thing or not like chemistry for example there are plenty of things that are 1 or the other, either things react or they don't, either something has charge or it doesn't, if something is by itself or not which determines things about it, there is defining factors everywhere decided by 1 or the other.[/quote:xyigdene]
what are you actually talking about? There are no binaries everything is transitional, everything is on a spectrum because thats how nature works the "freaks" are adapting traits to better survive their environment. because thats how nature works, but you dont care about "nature" unless it perpetuates your beliefs.
Even chemistry, there is a Sectrum some things react more than others, some dont, some do slightly, that is called a spectrum, which means its not binary.
"change" isnt an instant thing either in nature, its always always transitional, again, not binary.

[quote="Excellion":2vdjd2b5][quote="PENMASTER":2vdjd2b5][quote="Excellion":2vdjd2b5]If any of you actually cared about "nature" youd know that nothing in nature is a binary.[/quote:2vdjd2b5]
there is a binary system for everything
the norm and freaks of nature. just because you can make up any system you want with technicalities doesn't make it true. there is always something that is either 1 thing or not like chemistry for example there are plenty of things that are 1 or the other, either things react or they don't, either something has charge or it doesn't, if something is by itself or not which determines things about it, there is defining factors everywhere decided by 1 or the other.[/quote:2vdjd2b5]
what are you actually talking about? There are no binaries everything is transitional, everything is on a spectrum because thats how nature works the "freaks" are adapting traits to better survive their environment. because thats how nature works, but you dont care about "nature" unless it perpetuates your beliefs.
Even chemistry, there is a Sectrum some things react more than others, some dont, some do slightly, that is called a spectrum, which means its not binary.
"change" isnt an instant thing either in nature, its always always transitional, again, not binary.[/quote:2vdjd2b5]
there are binaries in everything just because parts of it are transitional doesn't change 1 thing is either something or its not.
just because some things react more then others doesn't change that some things react and some things don't, an example of something closer to that topic is things that react fast or slow over time sure there's a general middle but something always leans one way or another.
also evolution has nothing to do with this I mean slow changes over generations usually stay generally within the group of the norm and people who don't evolve become the freaks just because things can change over time doesn't change that somethings are 1 thing or something else

shits going in circles at this point I wonder when its gonna be locked

[quote="PENMASTER":11mbuf3z][quote="Excellion":11mbuf3z][quote="PENMASTER":11mbuf3z]
there is a binary system for everything
the norm and freaks of nature. just because you can make up any system you want with technicalities doesn't make it true. there is always something that is either 1 thing or not like chemistry for example there are plenty of things that are 1 or the other, either things react or they don't, either something has charge or it doesn't, if something is by itself or not which determines things about it, there is defining factors everywhere decided by 1 or the other.[/quote:11mbuf3z]
what are you actually talking about? There are no binaries everything is transitional, everything is on a spectrum because thats how nature works the "freaks" are adapting traits to better survive their environment. because thats how nature works, but you dont care about "nature" unless it perpetuates your beliefs.
Even chemistry, there is a Sectrum some things react more than others, some dont, some do slightly, that is called a spectrum, which means its not binary.
"change" isnt an instant thing either in nature, its always always transitional, again, not binary.[/quote:11mbuf3z]
there are binaries in everything just because parts of it are transitional doesn't change 1 thing is either something or its not.
just because some things react more then others doesn't change that some things react and some things don't, an example of something closer to that topic is things that react fast or slow over time sure there's a general middle but something always leans one way or another.
also evolution has nothing to do with this I mean slow changes over generations usually stay generally within the group of the norm and people who don't evolve become the freaks just because things can change over time doesn't change that somethings are 1 thing or something else[/quote:11mbuf3z]
By definition, if it has a transition or a spectrum it is not binary, binary is ONLY 1 or 0. yes a transition EXACTLY MEANS something changing from 1 thing to another, by definition. and evolution, again, is not a binary system and it does not "stay the same in the norm" if they did, they wouldnt need to evolve, did you not pay attention in biology? See Darwins birds for example. Since we are talking about biology There are non binary animals so saying its "not natural" is wrong on its face, There are plenty of non binary species, even trans species that exist.

You guys have yet to actually give any reason or source for any of your bigotry, meanwhile ive provided 4 medical journals, 2 reports from the DoA, and several reputable articles regarding the history of nonbinary persons if by now you dont see the problem replace what youve said so far about non binary persons with any ethnic race of your choosing and see how it sounds.

[quote="Excellion":1bv632uk][quote="PENMASTER":1bv632uk][quote="Excellion":1bv632uk]
what are you actually talking about? There are no binaries everything is transitional, everything is on a spectrum because thats how nature works the "freaks" are adapting traits to better survive their environment. because thats how nature works, but you dont care about "nature" unless it perpetuates your beliefs.
Even chemistry, there is a Sectrum some things react more than others, some dont, some do slightly, that is called a spectrum, which means its not binary.
"change" isnt an instant thing either in nature, its always always transitional, again, not binary.[/quote:1bv632uk]
there are binaries in everything just because parts of it are transitional doesn't change 1 thing is either something or its not.
just because some things react more then others doesn't change that some things react and some things don't, an example of something closer to that topic is things that react fast or slow over time sure there's a general middle but something always leans one way or another.
also evolution has nothing to do with this I mean slow changes over generations usually stay generally within the group of the norm and people who don't evolve become the freaks just because things can change over time doesn't change that somethings are 1 thing or something else[/quote:1bv632uk]
By definition, if it has a transition or a spectrum it is not binary, binary is ONLY 1 or 0. yes a transition EXACTLY MEANS something changing from 1 thing to another, by definition. and evolution, again, is not a binary system and it does not "stay the same in the norm" if they did, they wouldnt need to evolve, did you not pay attention in biology? See Darwins birds for example. Since we are talking about biology There are non binary animals so saying its "not natural" is wrong on its face, There are plenty of non binary species, even trans species that exist.[/quote:1bv632uk]

ok doing some quick reading up so your binary definition is wrong so here's this https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries. ... 1?q=binary which shows binary as 2 categories or a computer system that uses 1s and 0s and if we use the exact definition of yours the word binary doesn't apply anywhere anymore so we just switch to 2 categories which most use the word binary for also a quick google search doesn't even come up with anything like what anyone was using for binary lol.

on the evolution thing I didn't say things didn't change but that the changes were small enough and over long enough times that they wouldn't be very noticeable and were in about the norm of their generations which is surprising you didn't figure out.

just because there are non binary species and others that can transition doesn't mean it applies to humans and thats its natural to us. sure its possible in the animal kingdom but just about anything in reason could be possible but if we wanna apply it to ourselves we let evolution take it from there

[quote="PENMASTER":294xvkkp][quote="Excellion":294xvkkp][quote="PENMASTER":294xvkkp]
there are binaries in everything just because parts of it are transitional doesn't change 1 thing is either something or its not.
just because some things react more then others doesn't change that some things react and some things don't, an example of something closer to that topic is things that react fast or slow over time sure there's a general middle but something always leans one way or another.
also evolution has nothing to do with this I mean slow changes over generations usually stay generally within the group of the norm and people who don't evolve become the freaks just because things can change over time doesn't change that somethings are 1 thing or something else[/quote:294xvkkp]
By definition, if it has a transition or a spectrum it is not binary, binary is ONLY 1 or 0. yes a transition EXACTLY MEANS something changing from 1 thing to another, by definition. and evolution, again, is not a binary system and it does not "stay the same in the norm" if they did, they wouldnt need to evolve, did you not pay attention in biology? See Darwins birds for example. Since we are talking about biology There are non binary animals so saying its "not natural" is wrong on its face, There are plenty of non binary species, even trans species that exist.[/quote:294xvkkp]

ok doing some quick reading up so your binary definition is wrong so here's this https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries. ... 1?q=binary which shows binary as 2 categories or a computer system that uses 1s and 0s and if we use the exact definition of yours the word binary doesn't apply anywhere anymore so we just switch to 2 categories which most use the word binary for also a quick google search doesn't even come up with anything like what anyone was using for binary lol.

on the evolution thing I didn't say things didn't change but that the changes were small enough and over long enough times that they wouldn't be very noticeable and were in about the norm of their generations which is surprising you didn't figure out.

just because there are non binary species and others that can transition doesn't mean it applies to humans and thats its natural to us. sure its possible in the animal kingdom but just about anything in reason could be possible but if we wanna apply it to ourselves we let evolution take it from there[/quote:294xvkkp]
So you then admit, again, that nature is not binary, which is what i said, and you contested. and yes small change over a long period of time means you arent evolving all at once, which once again means its a process, a transition, which means... its not... binary. and lastly how are you seriously going to say "its not natural" and "it happens in nature" as if you didnt just absolutely contradict yourself and your entire argument. Also, YES Non-binary applies to people too, it has for thousands of years, through many civilizations and cultures, its only become an issue in the last 50 years.

Also, shout out to all the head-asses who suggested "just put it in your bio" you had to reach deep in your book of interalized prejudice to pull out old "Seperate but equal" for this argument, didnt you? Shame on all of you.

[quote="Excellion":3c6g2uu4][quote="PENMASTER":3c6g2uu4][quote="Excellion":3c6g2uu4]
By definition, if it has a transition or a spectrum it is not binary, binary is ONLY 1 or 0. yes a transition EXACTLY MEANS something changing from 1 thing to another, by definition. and evolution, again, is not a binary system and it does not "stay the same in the norm" if they did, they wouldnt need to evolve, did you not pay attention in biology? See Darwins birds for example. Since we are talking about biology There are non binary animals so saying its "not natural" is wrong on its face, There are plenty of non binary species, even trans species that exist.[/quote:3c6g2uu4]

ok doing some quick reading up so your binary definition is wrong so here's this https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries. ... 1?q=binary which shows binary as 2 categories or a computer system that uses 1s and 0s and if we use the exact definition of yours the word binary doesn't apply anywhere anymore so we just switch to 2 categories which most use the word binary for also a quick google search doesn't even come up with anything like what anyone was using for binary lol.

on the evolution thing I didn't say things didn't change but that the changes were small enough and over long enough times that they wouldn't be very noticeable and were in about the norm of their generations which is surprising you didn't figure out.

just because there are non binary species and others that can transition doesn't mean it applies to humans and thats its natural to us. sure its possible in the animal kingdom but just about anything in reason could be possible but if we wanna apply it to ourselves we let evolution take it from there[/quote:3c6g2uu4]
So you then admit, again, that nature is not binary, which is what i said, and you contested. and yes small change over a long period of time means you arent evolving all at once, which once again means its a process, a transition, which means... its not... binary. and lastly how are you seriously going to say "its not natural" and "it happens in nature" as if you didnt just absolutely contradict yourself and your entire argument. Also, YES Non-binary applies to people too, it has for thousands of years, through many civilizations and cultures, its only become an issue in the last 50 years.[/quote:3c6g2uu4]
i have been saying that are spectrums within the binary parts of nature, jesus christ im admitting there are some non binary parts to nature just like there are binary parts or something that fit in three groups but for humans just cause some mentally ill people thought they arent shit or some weird god or old historian got details wrong doesn't mean its a natural part of humanity. plus didn't romans hunt down and kill the people who thought they were something other then they weren't and had to be hid i wouldn't say its just been an issue in the past 50 years

[quote="Christen57":21vpfbxc][quote="Excellion":21vpfbxc][quote="Christen57":21vpfbxc]


Yes, it does and xxy chromsomes even have a name, its called "Klinefelter syndrome" https://medlineplus.gov/genetics/condition/klinefelter-syndrome/
[/quote:21vpfbxc][/quote:21vpfbxc]

"Klinefelter syndrome is a chromosomal condition in boys and men that can affect physical and intellectual development." - your medlineplus.gov source

This would mean you having XXY chromosomes still makes you male.

[quote:21vpfbxc]people see "memeglish" as their primary language on their account and thats fine

Then why would it matter what they put as their gender?[/quote:21vpfbxc]

Because there are still only 2 genders. Male and female.

[quote:21vpfbxc]but youre really gonna be offended if someone puts "attack helicopter' as their gender?

No. I'm gonna think that person's trolling or trying to be funny like how I find it funny people are listing Memeglish as their language.

Right... then why shouldnt gender be any different?[/quote:21vpfbxc]

Because there's no need to allow any additional genders to be added besides the 2 already displayed: Male and Female.

"Lost third gender of japan" covers it.

Could you link to it?

[quote:21vpfbxc]This source confirms that some males can be born with certain physical genitalia which appear to be female-looking, and vice versa, but it still confirms what Genexwrecker and myself have been telling you: That regardless of what these things are you're born with, you're still ultimately male if you have XY chromosomes and female if you have XX chromosomes.

Not genetically... which was the point youre bith trying to make, if its a binary system then there are only xy or xx, if its xxy or xyy or yy, it is not, by your definition, a male or female, thats the point.[/quote:21vpfbxc]

If it's XXY or XYY, either of those would still make you male as you still have at least 1 Y chromosome, and YY hasn't existed as a chromosome pair in anyone so far.

[quote:21vpfbxc]Then no one should have to participate in the "delusion" of a binary system either, which is why it should be removed.

But in order for living beings to reproduce, it has to be clear to both genders who's male and who's female, which is why you don't see a male and another male (or a female and another female) attempting to reproduce. That's not a delusion. That's basic biology. In reproduction, the male is responsible for fertilizing the woman's egg. If a female thinks she is male, she will expect to be able to fertilize another woman's egg, and if a male thinks he is female, he's expect to be fertilized by another man. Humanity can't reproduce if people think like this.

Yes, they can artifical incemination can be done between 2 females using bone marrow to inceminate an egg[/quote:21vpfbxc]

Even if you extract sperm and put it in the woman to impregnate her, the sperm still requires a male to produce and donate to begin with, no?

[quote:21vpfbxc]"Just because old cultures did it doesnt make it right"
But i thought you said its a "new fad" also

New in North America. Old in those Roman, Greek, and Japanese locations you listed.

First off who decides what is considered "new" and "old" and who said north america sets the standards for social norms?[/quote:21vpfbxc]

"New" meaning, compared to the Roman, Greek, and Japanese locations you listed (which you said had this for hundreds of thousands of years or so), it hasn't been widely done before in America.

Social norms can vary somewhat from country to country and can also overlap somewhat. It can be the "social norm" in one country to make up and accept additional genders besides male and female but not in another country.[/quote:21vpfbxc]

Just gonna give you a source for the 3rd gender of Japan he is talking about - though reading through it, it's not so much a "gender" within itself as much as it is an orientation (bi-sexuality) and focused around how one expresses themselves outside of gender/cultural norms.

[url][https://rainbopedia.org/wiki/wakashu-japans-third-gender/#:~:text=The%20wakashu%20(roughly%20translated%2C%20%E2%80%9C,with%20both%20women%20and%20men.[/url]

[quote="PENMASTER":23ml91v9][quote="Excellion":23ml91v9][quote="PENMASTER":23ml91v9]

ok doing some quick reading up so your binary definition is wrong so here's this https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries. ... 1?q=binary which shows binary as 2 categories or a computer system that uses 1s and 0s and if we use the exact definition of yours the word binary doesn't apply anywhere anymore so we just switch to 2 categories which most use the word binary for also a quick google search doesn't even come up with anything like what anyone was using for binary lol.

on the evolution thing I didn't say things didn't change but that the changes were small enough and over long enough times that they wouldn't be very noticeable and were in about the norm of their generations which is surprising you didn't figure out.

just because there are non binary species and others that can transition doesn't mean it applies to humans and thats its natural to us. sure its possible in the animal kingdom but just about anything in reason could be possible but if we wanna apply it to ourselves we let evolution take it from there[/quote:23ml91v9]
So you then admit, again, that nature is not binary, which is what i said, and you contested. and yes small change over a long period of time means you arent evolving all at once, which once again means its a process, a transition, which means... its not... binary. and lastly how are you seriously going to say "its not natural" and "it happens in nature" as if you didnt just absolutely contradict yourself and your entire argument. Also, YES Non-binary applies to people too, it has for thousands of years, through many civilizations and cultures, its only become an issue in the last 50 years.[/quote:23ml91v9]
i have been saying that are spectrums within the binary parts of nature, jesus christ im admitting there are some non binary parts to nature just like there are binary parts or something that fit in three groups but for humans just cause some mentally ill people thought they arent shit or some weird god or old historian got details wrong doesn't mean its a natural part of humanity. plus didn't romans hunt down and kill the people who thought they were something other then they weren't and had to be hid i wouldn't say its just been an issue in the past 50 years[/quote:23ml91v9]

So again, you admit, you are wrong about nature being binary, because nothing youve suggested so far has been binary. Since you are such an expert then, what is a "natural part of humanity" then, and who are YOU to decide what is and is not? what right do you have to look over literally thousands of years of history, years of medical research, sociology and psychology, and unilaterally decide what "is" and "is not" natural for huamans, Last i checked the nature of humanity is lifes greatest scientific mysteries but apparently, youre claiming to have solved it? Also No, the romans didnt "hunt non binary people", source?

[quote="Excellion":g5bnnbbg][quote="PENMASTER":g5bnnbbg][quote="Excellion":g5bnnbbg]
So you then admit, again, that nature is not binary, which is what i said, and you contested. and yes small change over a long period of time means you arent evolving all at once, which once again means its a process, a transition, which means... its not... binary. and lastly how are you seriously going to say "its not natural" and "it happens in nature" as if you didnt just absolutely contradict yourself and your entire argument. Also, YES Non-binary applies to people too, it has for thousands of years, through many civilizations and cultures, its only become an issue in the last 50 years.[/quote:g5bnnbbg]
i have been saying that are spectrums within the binary parts of nature, jesus christ im admitting there are some non binary parts to nature just like there are binary parts or something that fit in three groups but for humans just cause some mentally ill people thought they arent shit or some weird god or old historian got details wrong doesn't mean its a natural part of humanity. plus didn't romans hunt down and kill the people who thought they were something other then they weren't and had to be hid i wouldn't say its just been an issue in the past 50 years[/quote:g5bnnbbg]

So again, you admit, you are wrong about nature being binary, because nothing youve suggested so far has been binary. Since you are such an expert then, what is a "natural part of humanity" then, and who are YOU to decide what is and is not? what right do you have to look over literally thousands of years of history, years of medical research, sociology and psychology, and unilaterally decide what "is" and "is not" natural for huamans, Last i checked the nature of humanity is lifes greatest scientific mysteries but apparently, youre claiming to have solved it? Also No, the romans didnt "hunt non binary people", source?[/quote:g5bnnbbg]
you keep trying to bring up parts of nature that arent binary that have nothing to do with humans as proving me wrong dear god its getting annoying and what is natural in humanity, anything we haven't edited directly I mean simple evolution like pinky toes getting smaller over time cause shoes or certain organs not being used anymore with stuff like the apendix, I mean has a human ever at adult age completely changed gender completely naturally to reproduce in situations where its called for like some animals, I mean if we look at nature humans should totally be able to regrow whole limbs just cause a few lizards can do it

[quote="PENMASTER":lb9utdl5][quote="Excellion":lb9utdl5][quote="PENMASTER":lb9utdl5]
i have been saying that are spectrums within the binary parts of nature, jesus christ im admitting there are some non binary parts to nature just like there are binary parts or something that fit in three groups but for humans just cause some mentally ill people thought they arent shit or some weird god or old historian got details wrong doesn't mean its a natural part of humanity. plus didn't romans hunt down and kill the people who thought they were something other then they weren't and had to be hid i wouldn't say its just been an issue in the past 50 years[/quote:lb9utdl5]

So again, you admit, you are wrong about nature being binary, because nothing youve suggested so far has been binary. Since you are such an expert then, what is a "natural part of humanity" then, and who are YOU to decide what is and is not? what right do you have to look over literally thousands of years of history, years of medical research, sociology and psychology, and unilaterally decide what "is" and "is not" natural for huamans, Last i checked the nature of humanity is lifes greatest scientific mysteries but apparently, youre claiming to have solved it? Also No, the romans didnt "hunt non binary people", source?[/quote:lb9utdl5]
you keep trying to bring up parts of nature that arent binary that have nothing to do with humans as proving me wrong dear god its getting annoying and what is natural in humanity, anything we haven't edited directly I mean simple evolution like pinky toes getting smaller over time cause shoes or certain organs not being used anymore with stuff like the apendix, I mean has a human ever at adult age completely changed gender completely naturally to reproduce in situations where its called for like some animals, I mean if we look at nature humans should totally be able to regrow whole limbs just cause a few lizards can do it[/quote:lb9utdl5]
YES humans HAVE changed gender via hormone therapy the same process as other animals in the wild, Yes im going to keep bringing up non-binaries in nature because YOU keep claiming "non binary isnt natural" Also, the things youve listed as natural, didnt just happen over night, all of those were also transitional, a non-binary process and we CAN regrow pieces of ourselves, see, for example, our liver.

[quote="Excellion":3lr7aicq][quote="PENMASTER":3lr7aicq][quote="Excellion":3lr7aicq]

So again, you admit, you are wrong about nature being binary, because nothing youve suggested so far has been binary. Since you are such an expert then, what is a "natural part of humanity" then, and who are YOU to decide what is and is not? what right do you have to look over literally thousands of years of history, years of medical research, sociology and psychology, and unilaterally decide what "is" and "is not" natural for huamans, Last i checked the nature of humanity is lifes greatest scientific mysteries but apparently, youre claiming to have solved it? Also No, the romans didnt "hunt non binary people", source?[/quote:3lr7aicq]
you keep trying to bring up parts of nature that arent binary that have nothing to do with humans as proving me wrong dear god its getting annoying and what is natural in humanity, anything we haven't edited directly I mean simple evolution like pinky toes getting smaller over time cause shoes or certain organs not being used anymore with stuff like the apendix, I mean has a human ever at adult age completely changed gender completely naturally to reproduce in situations where its called for like some animals, I mean if we look at nature humans should totally be able to regrow whole limbs just cause a few lizards can do it[/quote:3lr7aicq]
YES humans HAVE changed gender via hormone therapy the same process as other animals in the wild, Yes im going to keep bringing up non-binaries in nature because YOU keep claiming "non binary isnt natural" Also, the things youve listed as natural, didnt just happen over night, all of those were also transitional, a non-binary process and we CAN regrow pieces of ourselves, see, for example, our liver.[/quote:3lr7aicq]
hormone therapy doesn't count as natural its injections of stuff that wouldn't be there if they hadn't had it and it doesn't even change much.
you wont process that being non binary isn't natural for humans and never will be just cause people think they are doesn't mean they are nd im talking about whole arms an example even you cant fuck up is growing fucking wings like a butterfly

[quote="PENMASTER":1jr195p2][quote="Excellion":1jr195p2][quote="PENMASTER":1jr195p2]
you keep trying to bring up parts of nature that arent binary that have nothing to do with humans as proving me wrong dear god its getting annoying and what is natural in humanity, anything we haven't edited directly I mean simple evolution like pinky toes getting smaller over time cause shoes or certain organs not being used anymore with stuff like the apendix, I mean has a human ever at adult age completely changed gender completely naturally to reproduce in situations where its called for like some animals, I mean if we look at nature humans should totally be able to regrow whole limbs just cause a few lizards can do it[/quote:1jr195p2]
YES humans HAVE changed gender via hormone therapy the same process as other animals in the wild, Yes im going to keep bringing up non-binaries in nature because YOU keep claiming "non binary isnt natural" Also, the things youve listed as natural, didnt just happen over night, all of those were also transitional, a non-binary process and we CAN regrow pieces of ourselves, see, for example, our liver.[/quote:1jr195p2]
hormone therapy doesn't count as natural its injections of stuff that wouldn't be there if they hadn't had it and it doesn't even change much.
you wont process that being non binary isn't natural for humans and never will be just cause people think they are doesn't mean they are nd im talking about whole arms an example even you cant fuck up is growing fucking wings like a butterfly[/quote:1jr195p2]
First off, are you a doctor? a biologist? who are YOU to decide what "does and does not" count, by that logic, im sure youre also against vaccines? they are also "not natural" right? people can produce more testosterone or estrogen naturally, injections help regulate those hormones. and we have people growing prehensial tails... and horns but please tell me again how those people fit in your "totoall natural person" you have not given a single reason why non-binary is natural other than "because i think so" ignoring literal piles of supported evidence and years of history.

[quote="Excellion":3eak2s50][quote="PENMASTER":3eak2s50][quote="Excellion":3eak2s50]

So again, you admit, you are wrong about nature being binary, because nothing youve suggested so far has been binary. Since you are such an expert then, what is a "natural part of humanity" then, and who are YOU to decide what is and is not? what right do you have to look over literally thousands of years of history, years of medical research, sociology and psychology, and unilaterally decide what "is" and "is not" natural for huamans, Last i checked the nature of humanity is lifes greatest scientific mysteries but apparently, youre claiming to have solved it? Also No, the romans didnt "hunt non binary people", source?[/quote:3eak2s50]
you keep trying to bring up parts of nature that arent binary that have nothing to do with humans as proving me wrong dear god its getting annoying and what is natural in humanity, anything we haven't edited directly I mean simple evolution like pinky toes getting smaller over time cause shoes or certain organs not being used anymore with stuff like the apendix, I mean has a human ever at adult age completely changed gender completely naturally to reproduce in situations where its called for like some animals, I mean if we look at nature humans should totally be able to regrow whole limbs just cause a few lizards can do it[/quote:3eak2s50]
YES humans HAVE changed gender via hormone therapy the same process as other animals in the wild, Yes im going to keep bringing up non-binaries in nature because YOU keep claiming "non binary isnt natural" Also, the things youve listed as natural, didnt just happen over night, all of those were also transitional, a non-binary process and we CAN regrow pieces of ourselves, see, for example, our liver.[/quote:3eak2s50]
the treatments for gender dysphoria syndrome does not change your gender. It alters your body to help cope with a mental illness which may or may not lead you to suicide if you are not comfortable with your own body. have you yourself ever gone through any of these hormonal treatments and sex reassignment surgery?

[quote="Genexwrecker":313nivgc][quote="Excellion":313nivgc][quote="PENMASTER":313nivgc]
you keep trying to bring up parts of nature that arent binary that have nothing to do with humans as proving me wrong dear god its getting annoying and what is natural in humanity, anything we haven't edited directly I mean simple evolution like pinky toes getting smaller over time cause shoes or certain organs not being used anymore with stuff like the apendix, I mean has a human ever at adult age completely changed gender completely naturally to reproduce in situations where its called for like some animals, I mean if we look at nature humans should totally be able to regrow whole limbs just cause a few lizards can do it[/quote:313nivgc]
YES humans HAVE changed gender via hormone therapy the same process as other animals in the wild, Yes im going to keep bringing up non-binaries in nature because YOU keep claiming "non binary isnt natural" Also, the things youve listed as natural, didnt just happen over night, all of those were also transitional, a non-binary process and we CAN regrow pieces of ourselves, see, for example, our liver.[/quote:313nivgc]
the treatments for gender dysphoria syndrome does not change your gender. It alters your body to help cope with a mental illness which may or may not lead you to suicide if you are not comfortable with your own body. have you yourself ever gone through any of these hormonal treatments and sex reassignment surgery?[/quote:313nivgc]
Source? Are you a doctor? Are you aware that stastics show the reason for suicide has nothing to do with "how comfortable you are in your body" and everything to do with bullying and social stigma?
[url:313nivgc]https://www.thetrevorproject.org/resources/article/facts-about-lgbtq-youth-suicide/[/url:313nivgc] Heres a source.

[quote="Excellion":85knbva9][quote="PENMASTER":85knbva9][quote="Excellion":85knbva9]
YES humans HAVE changed gender via hormone therapy the same process as other animals in the wild, Yes im going to keep bringing up non-binaries in nature because YOU keep claiming "non binary isnt natural" Also, the things youve listed as natural, didnt just happen over night, all of those were also transitional, a non-binary process and we CAN regrow pieces of ourselves, see, for example, our liver.[/quote:85knbva9]
hormone therapy doesn't count as natural its injections of stuff that wouldn't be there if they hadn't had it and it doesn't even change much.
you wont process that being non binary isn't natural for humans and never will be just cause people think they are doesn't mean they are nd im talking about whole arms an example even you cant fuck up is growing fucking wings like a butterfly[/quote:85knbva9]
First off, are you a doctor? a biologist? who are YOU to decide what "does and does not" count, by that logic, im sure youre also against vaccines? they are also "not natural" right? people can produce more testosterone or estrogen naturally, injections help regulate those hormones. and we have people growing prehensial tails... and horns but please tell me again how those people fit in your "totoall natural person" you have not given a single reason why non-binary is natural other than "because i think so" ignoring literal piles of supported evidence and years of history.[/quote:85knbva9]
are you a fucking doctor dude?
just because vaccines arent natural doesn't mean im against them that's just out of nowhere bullshit like calling someone you don't a agree with a nazi which have done like 50 times by this point.
you got a bit of a point with the tails of horns things but the cause may be natural but the effect is not if we compare to most humans.
i have given the same reason why non binary isn't natural 20 fucking times and it hassent been cause I think so its cause it doesn't fucking exist just because someone thinks they are doesn't mean they are, just because their chromosomes or parts are fucked up doesn't mean they cant be categorized nor prove the categorizations arent real

[quote="Excellion":1f9q0kqk][quote="Genexwrecker":1f9q0kqk][quote="Excellion":1f9q0kqk]
YES humans HAVE changed gender via hormone therapy the same process as other animals in the wild, Yes im going to keep bringing up non-binaries in nature because YOU keep claiming "non binary isnt natural" Also, the things youve listed as natural, didnt just happen over night, all of those were also transitional, a non-binary process and we CAN regrow pieces of ourselves, see, for example, our liver.[/quote:1f9q0kqk]
the treatments for gender dysphoria syndrome does not change your gender. It alters your body to help cope with a mental illness which may or may not lead you to suicide if you are not comfortable with your own body. have you yourself ever gone through any of these hormonal treatments and sex reassignment surgery?[/quote:1f9q0kqk]
Source? Are you a doctor? Are you aware that stastics show the reason for suicide has nothing to do with "how comfortable you are in your body" and everything to do with bullying and social stigma?
[url:1f9q0kqk]https://www.thetrevorproject.org/resources/article/facts-about-lgbtq-youth-suicide/[/url:1f9q0kqk] Heres a source.[/quote:1f9q0kqk]
either way sounds like a sucks for them moment

[quote="Excellion":357mrpv3][quote="Genexwrecker":357mrpv3][quote="Excellion":357mrpv3]
YES humans HAVE changed gender via hormone therapy the same process as other animals in the wild, Yes im going to keep bringing up non-binaries in nature because YOU keep claiming "non binary isnt natural" Also, the things youve listed as natural, didnt just happen over night, all of those were also transitional, a non-binary process and we CAN regrow pieces of ourselves, see, for example, our liver.[/quote:357mrpv3]
the treatments for gender dysphoria syndrome does not change your gender. It alters your body to help cope with a mental illness which may or may not lead you to suicide if you are not comfortable with your own body. have you yourself ever gone through any of these hormonal treatments and sex reassignment surgery?[/quote:357mrpv3]
Source? Are you a doctor? Are you aware that stastics show the reason for suicide has nothing to do with "how comfortable you are in your body" and everything to do with bullying and social stigma?
[url:357mrpv3]https://www.thetrevorproject.org/resources/article/facts-about-lgbtq-youth-suicide/[/url:357mrpv3] Heres a source.[/quote:357mrpv3]
So you havent gone through the treatments or gender dysphoria syndrome. what a shame.

[quote="Genexwrecker":2btrg9or][quote="Excellion":2btrg9or][quote="Genexwrecker":2btrg9or]
the treatments for gender dysphoria syndrome does not change your gender. It alters your body to help cope with a mental illness which may or may not lead you to suicide if you are not comfortable with your own body. have you yourself ever gone through any of these hormonal treatments and sex reassignment surgery?[/quote:2btrg9or]
Source? Are you a doctor? Are you aware that stastics show the reason for suicide has nothing to do with "how comfortable you are in your body" and everything to do with bullying and social stigma?
[url:2btrg9or]https://www.thetrevorproject.org/resources/article/facts-about-lgbtq-youth-suicide/[/url:2btrg9or] Heres a source.[/quote:2btrg9or]
So you havent gone through the treatments or gender dysphoria syndrome. what a shame.[/quote:2btrg9or]
1. didnt say i did or didnt, and i will be reporting that in the abuse report. and 2. Still no source? what a shame.

[quote="PENMASTER":qsevttgb][quote="Excellion":qsevttgb][quote="PENMASTER":qsevttgb]
hormone therapy doesn't count as natural its injections of stuff that wouldn't be there if they hadn't had it and it doesn't even change much.
you wont process that being non binary isn't natural for humans and never will be just cause people think they are doesn't mean they are nd im talking about whole arms an example even you cant fuck up is growing fucking wings like a butterfly[/quote:qsevttgb]
First off, are you a doctor? a biologist? who are YOU to decide what "does and does not" count, by that logic, im sure youre also against vaccines? they are also "not natural" right? people can produce more testosterone or estrogen naturally, injections help regulate those hormones. and we have people growing prehensial tails... and horns but please tell me again how those people fit in your "totoall natural person" you have not given a single reason why non-binary is natural other than "because i think so" ignoring literal piles of supported evidence and years of history.[/quote:qsevttgb]
are you a fucking doctor dude?
just because vaccines arent natural doesn't mean im against them that's just out of nowhere bullshit like calling someone you don't a agree with a nazi which have done like 50 times by this point.
you got a bit of a point with the tails of horns things but the cause may be natural but the effect is not if we compare to most humans.
i have given the same reason why non binary isn't natural 20 fucking times and it hassent been cause I think so its cause it doesn't fucking exist just because someone thinks they are doesn't mean they are, just because their chromosomes or parts are fucked up doesn't mean they cant be categorized nor prove the categorizations arent real[/quote:qsevttgb]
Youre saying Hormone therapy "doesnt count" as natural because it helps regulate hormones and ease your bodys production of those hormones, but vaccinnes helping you generate anti-bodies and generate an immunity to the disease isnt natural either, so maybe we can agree that we, as humans, need "non-natural" methods to adapt, Again who are YOU to decide what is or is not natural?? what gives you the right to decide what IS and IS NOT NATURAL because by YOUR definition, having a tail and horns and extra fingers, toes, ect IS NATURAL. Also, by your line of thinking, dolphins should be a fish, instead of a mammal, again, youd know this if you payed attention in biology, classifications are NOT static, they change constantly and classifications are added and removed regularly because classifications arent made to be exact.

[quote="Excellion":q8hjzoe5][quote="PENMASTER":q8hjzoe5][quote="Excellion":q8hjzoe5]
First off, are you a doctor? a biologist? who are YOU to decide what "does and does not" count, by that logic, im sure youre also against vaccines? they are also "not natural" right? people can produce more testosterone or estrogen naturally, injections help regulate those hormones. and we have people growing prehensial tails... and horns but please tell me again how those people fit in your "totoall natural person" you have not given a single reason why non-binary is natural other than "because i think so" ignoring literal piles of supported evidence and years of history.[/quote:q8hjzoe5]
are you a fucking doctor dude?
just because vaccines arent natural doesn't mean im against them that's just out of nowhere bullshit like calling someone you don't a agree with a nazi which have done like 50 times by this point.
you got a bit of a point with the tails of horns things but the cause may be natural but the effect is not if we compare to most humans.
i have given the same reason why non binary isn't natural 20 fucking times and it hassent been cause I think so its cause it doesn't fucking exist just because someone thinks they are doesn't mean they are, just because their chromosomes or parts are fucked up doesn't mean they cant be categorized nor prove the categorizations arent real[/quote:q8hjzoe5]
Youre saying Hormone therapy "doesnt count" as natural because it helps regulate hormones and ease your bodys production of those hormones, but vaccinnes helping you generate anti-bodies and generate an immunity to the disease isnt natural either, so maybe we can agree that we, as humans, need "non-natural" methods to adapt, Again who are YOU to decide what is or is not natural?? what gives you the right to decide what IS and IS NOT NATURAL because by YOUR definition, having a tail and horns and extra fingers, toes, ect IS NATURAL. Also, by your line of thinking, dolphins should be a fish, instead of a mammal, again, youd know this if you payed attention in biology, classifications are NOT static, they change constantly and classifications are added and removed regularly because classifications arent made to be exact.[/quote:q8hjzoe5]
bullshit after bullshit. who are you to decide what you count as natural I can apply this shit to you all the same you apply it to me.
also what about anything that I said has anything to due with dolphins, they are warm-blooded and have lungs just because they arent the biggest thing in the ocean there are enough sea creatures like them they aren't exactly an oddity. also just cause classifications arent static doesn't mean you can make shit up and just change it cause you feel like it

WTF IS GOING ON HERE? The original post was just asking for a non-binary option, then it lead to a discussion of LGBTQA++ as a whole while bringing up some casual homophobia and transphobia.

[quote="PENMASTER":2o6o4k2b][quote="Excellion":2o6o4k2b][quote="PENMASTER":2o6o4k2b]
are you a fucking doctor dude?
just because vaccines arent natural doesn't mean im against them that's just out of nowhere bullshit like calling someone you don't a agree with a nazi which have done like 50 times by this point.
you got a bit of a point with the tails of horns things but the cause may be natural but the effect is not if we compare to most humans.
i have given the same reason why non binary isn't natural 20 fucking times and it hassent been cause I think so its cause it doesn't fucking exist just because someone thinks they are doesn't mean they are, just because their chromosomes or parts are fucked up doesn't mean they cant be categorized nor prove the categorizations arent real[/quote:2o6o4k2b]
Youre saying Hormone therapy "doesnt count" as natural because it helps regulate hormones and ease your bodys production of those hormones, but vaccinnes helping you generate anti-bodies and generate an immunity to the disease isnt natural either, so maybe we can agree that we, as humans, need "non-natural" methods to adapt, Again who are YOU to decide what is or is not natural?? what gives you the right to decide what IS and IS NOT NATURAL because by YOUR definition, having a tail and horns and extra fingers, toes, ect IS NATURAL. Also, by your line of thinking, dolphins should be a fish, instead of a mammal, again, youd know this if you payed attention in biology, classifications are NOT static, they change constantly and classifications are added and removed regularly because classifications arent made to be exact.[/quote:2o6o4k2b]
bullshit after bullshit. who are you to decide what you count as natural I can apply this shit to you all the same you apply it to me.
also what about anything that I said has anything to due with dolphins, they are warm-blooded and have lungs just because they arent the biggest thing in the ocean there are enough sea creatures like them they aren't exactly an oddity. also just cause classifications arent static doesn't mean you can make shit up and just change it cause you feel like it[/quote:2o6o4k2b]
Except im not the one saying something "isnt natural" then failing to actually PROVE IT. No sources, meanwhile everytime io point out that BY YOUR LOGIC Nonbinary IS natural, you move the goal post, youve done this 3 times now. About the dolphin statement, Dolphins were originally classified as fish until they were recatagorized as mammals, which is an example of what i was talking about, classifcations changing wildly and regularly and they CAN change on a whim.

[quote="Excellion":2wvt4bct][quote="PENMASTER":2wvt4bct][quote="Excellion":2wvt4bct]
Youre saying Hormone therapy "doesnt count" as natural because it helps regulate hormones and ease your bodys production of those hormones, but vaccinnes helping you generate anti-bodies and generate an immunity to the disease isnt natural either, so maybe we can agree that we, as humans, need "non-natural" methods to adapt, Again who are YOU to decide what is or is not natural?? what gives you the right to decide what IS and IS NOT NATURAL because by YOUR definition, having a tail and horns and extra fingers, toes, ect IS NATURAL. Also, by your line of thinking, dolphins should be a fish, instead of a mammal, again, youd know this if you payed attention in biology, classifications are NOT static, they change constantly and classifications are added and removed regularly because classifications arent made to be exact.[/quote:2wvt4bct]
bullshit after bullshit. who are you to decide what you count as natural I can apply this shit to you all the same you apply it to me.
also what about anything that I said has anything to due with dolphins, they are warm-blooded and have lungs just because they arent the biggest thing in the ocean there are enough sea creatures like them they aren't exactly an oddity. also just cause classifications arent static doesn't mean you can make shit up and just change it cause you feel like it[/quote:2wvt4bct]
Except im not the one saying something "isnt natural" then failing to actually PROVE IT. No sources, meanwhile everytime io point out that BY YOUR LOGIC Nonbinary IS natural, you move the goal post, youve done this 3 times now. About the dolphin statement, Dolphins were originally classified as fish until they were recatagorized as mammals, which is an example of what i was talking about, classifcations changing wildly and regularly and they CAN change on a whim.[/quote:2wvt4bct]
bro just shut the fuck up you keep bringing up new random bullshit semantics also the classification of dolphins wassent changed on a whim, you keep trying to move the goalpost back and im setting it in its correct place

[quote="Christen57":36wbsy6s][quote="Excellion":36wbsy6s][quote="Christen57":36wbsy6s]

Okay, and that's Arizona's choice to pander to entitled people who wanna sexually identify as attack helicopters and whatnot, not duelingbook's choice.[/quote:36wbsy6s]
Exactly, then entitled binary people dont need to display their heterosexuality either, thats why im saying remove the gender selector all together if someone wants their gender to be known.[/quote:36wbsy6s]

You do have the option to hide your gender as multiple people already pointed out that you can leave the thing blank instead of picking male or female. That counts as "removing it" and thus fits your criteria of it being "removed".

Non binary prefix in rome and greese

Some parts of the world doing it a long time ago doesn't make it valid today. I'm sure Rome and Greece also, for a long time, believed in their Gods and pseudosciences, and believed in witches/witchcraft, human sacrifices/rituals, preserving the corpses of pharaohs so they could have the appropriate body needed to move on to the afterlife, and so on, and I bet that they abandoned all of this once science and technology were introduced and evolved to disprove many of these things.

Genexwrecker is saying gender is "biological" then ignores intersex persons people of "Yy" or "xxy" chromosome pairings

No one in history has ever had either of those chromosome combinations as far as I'm aware.[/quote:36wbsy6s]


You miss the point entirely. No-one has ever claimed in history that we should adopt every practice from ancient Rome or Greece. This was merely a way of showing that LGBT rights isnt just an entirely modern thing. You really do go out of your way to attack a strawman

Secondly, not showing your gender, is different than showing your lack of a gender. These are different concepts. Someone who identifies as neither a male or a female is different than a male who would rather not show his gender

[quote="PENMASTER":294igvjp][quote="Excellion":294igvjp][quote="PENMASTER":294igvjp]
bullshit after bullshit. who are you to decide what you count as natural I can apply this shit to you all the same you apply it to me.
also what about anything that I said has anything to due with dolphins, they are warm-blooded and have lungs just because they arent the biggest thing in the ocean there are enough sea creatures like them they aren't exactly an oddity. also just cause classifications arent static doesn't mean you can make shit up and just change it cause you feel like it[/quote:294igvjp]
Except im not the one saying something "isnt natural" then failing to actually PROVE IT. No sources, meanwhile everytime io point out that BY YOUR LOGIC Nonbinary IS natural, you move the goal post, youve done this 3 times now. About the dolphin statement, Dolphins were originally classified as fish until they were recatagorized as mammals, which is an example of what i was talking about, classifcations changing wildly and regularly and they CAN change on a whim.[/quote:294igvjp]
bro just shut the fuck up you keep bringing up new random bullshit semantics also the classification of dolphins wassent changed on a whim, you keep trying to move the goalpost back and im setting it in its correct place[/quote:294igvjp]
Well, this post is getting reported, No they arent "random semantics" I said there are no binaries in nature, you gave 2 examples, i explained how both are not binary and included that non-binary and trans are things in animals, you then moved the post and said "just because its natural doesnt mean its natural for humans" i asked you what WAS natural for humans, you said natural evolutions, i replied what about natural evolutions that lead to tails and horns, you again, moved the post and said "those dont count, those are freaks" again, i asked you "what is natural then" you have yet to actually point to a reason WHY its not "natural" you have no sources, and every time you move the post, i point out the flaw, and you move it again, for the last 2 hour.

[quote="Excellion":19poai5f][quote="PENMASTER":19poai5f][quote="Excellion":19poai5f]
Except im not the one saying something "isnt natural" then failing to actually PROVE IT. No sources, meanwhile everytime io point out that BY YOUR LOGIC Nonbinary IS natural, you move the goal post, youve done this 3 times now. About the dolphin statement, Dolphins were originally classified as fish until they were recatagorized as mammals, which is an example of what i was talking about, classifcations changing wildly and regularly and they CAN change on a whim.[/quote:19poai5f]
bro just shut the fuck up you keep bringing up new random bullshit semantics also the classification of dolphins wassent changed on a whim, you keep trying to move the goalpost back and im setting it in its correct place[/quote:19poai5f]
Well, this post is getting reported, No they arent "random semantics" I said there are no binaries in nature, you gave 2 examples, i explained how both are not binary and included that non-binary and trans are things in animals, you then moved the post and said "just because its natural doesnt mean its natural for humans" i asked you what WAS natural for humans, you said natural evolutions, i replied what about natural evolutions that lead to tails and horns, you again, moved the post and said "those dont count, those are freaks" again, i asked you "what is natural then" you have yet to actually point to a reason WHY its not "natural" you have no sources, and every time you move the post, i point out the flaw, and you move it again, for the last 2 hour.[/quote:19poai5f]
you didn't say shit about tails or horns being evolutions but people that do somehow have those naturally which are just defects. you kept trying to move to other animals that fit what you thought when the topic should of stayed on humans the entire time

[quote="Renji Asuka":1megxgi6]I really wanted to stay out of this debate entirely and frankly this thread should had been locked earlier. I been around twitter too long dealing with LGBTQ+ nonsense. But I'm left with no choice.

First, let's cut the crap regarding "Gender is a social construct"

The idea that gender is a social construct is relatively new by a very screwed up individuals being one of the founders to the idea. John Money, who raised a pair of twin boys. One as a boy, and one as a girl. He forced the one that was raised as a girl to be in sexual submissive poses while taking pictures, forced to grow their hair out, forced to wear dresses and play with dolls. He declared his experiment as a success.

Meanwhile the one raised as a girl played with his brother's toys in secret. 1 twin died from drug overdose. The other died from blowing his brains out with a sawn off shotgun.

If you still believe that gender is a social construct after learning this, then you quite literally support this experiment which would show how terrible of a person you really are.

Also important to note: DO NOT GIVE IN TO THE DELUSIONS OF THE MENTALLY ILL. Would you give into the delusions of a schizophrenic person? No, it's dangerous for everyone involved. Why would you do the same for people who don't know which bathroom to use? Do not expect me to call you by your preferred crap. If you have a fully functional vagina, you are a woman. End of story. If you have a fully functional penis you are a man. End of story. A woman cannot be a man and a man cannot be a woman. There is no "ands, if's or but" about it.[/quote:1megxgi6]

You understand that you both attack a strawman, give into reductio ad absurdum argumet fallacy, and assert "Common Sense" as superceding reality

1. The "Social Construct" theory does not get invalidated by 1 man and 1 man alone. Your argument is essentially, "1 man was a dickhead therefore, the point that him, alongside millions of thers were making is wrong" which is not a veyry suitable argument. You also attack a strawman here, no-one is even using that as the main justification of their transgenderism. Over the past few decades, we have compiled strides in psychological research all of which confirms transgenderism neurological perspective, rather than a sociological one

2. You engage in Reductio ad Absurdum while also proclaiming that "Common Sense" is a better argument than reason. You blew up "we should listen to non-binary people" to, "Should we also listen to schitzophremic people, while also equating those as equally valid claims. You cannot do this and also claim that your argument doesnt lose its validity immediately. Transgender and Non-binary people are not schitzophrenic. And you seem to go by a simple "Men have penises, women have vaginas" argument, which you conpletely refused to back up. While it is true that this applies to most people, you use the common sense, to refer to someone with a penis as male, as a supposed argument which does not have anything to do with the argument we try to make

[quote="PENMASTER":3pe9etab][quote="Excellion":3pe9etab][quote="PENMASTER":3pe9etab]
bro just shut the fuck up you keep bringing up new random bullshit semantics also the classification of dolphins wassent changed on a whim, you keep trying to move the goalpost back and im setting it in its correct place[/quote:3pe9etab]
Well, this post is getting reported, No they arent "random semantics" I said there are no binaries in nature, you gave 2 examples, i explained how both are not binary and included that non-binary and trans are things in animals, you then moved the post and said "just because its natural doesnt mean its natural for humans" i asked you what WAS natural for humans, you said natural evolutions, i replied what about natural evolutions that lead to tails and horns, you again, moved the post and said "those dont count, those are freaks" again, i asked you "what is natural then" you have yet to actually point to a reason WHY its not "natural" you have no sources, and every time you move the post, i point out the flaw, and you move it again, for the last 2 hour.[/quote:3pe9etab]
you didn't say shit about tails or horns being evolutions but people that do somehow have those naturally which are just defects. you kept trying to move to other animals that fit what you thought when the topic should of stayed on humans the entire time[/quote:3pe9etab]
You still have given no justification of what should and should not be classified as "natural" for a Huamn, i keep moving off humans because you want to discuss what is natural, so im talking about Nature, You have 1. No status/authority to decide what is/is not "Natural" for a human, you are not a doctor or biologist and you fail to cite one in any of your points. 2. You have not made a single valid point, all your arguments are supported by nothing but your own bias and no actual evidence. 3. You are a bigot.

[quote="PENMASTER":ve2kbj7i][quote="Excellion":ve2kbj7i][quote="PENMASTER":ve2kbj7i]
hormone therapy doesn't count as natural its injections of stuff that wouldn't be there if they hadn't had it and it doesn't even change much.
you wont process that being non binary isn't natural for humans and never will be just cause people think they are doesn't mean they are nd im talking about whole arms an example even you cant fuck up is growing fucking wings like a butterfly[/quote:ve2kbj7i]
First off, are you a doctor? a biologist? who are YOU to decide what "does and does not" count, by that logic, im sure youre also against vaccines? they are also "not natural" right? people can produce more testosterone or estrogen naturally, injections help regulate those hormones. and we have people growing prehensial tails... and horns but please tell me again how those people fit in your "totoall natural person" you have not given a single reason why non-binary is natural other than "because i think so" ignoring literal piles of supported evidence and years of history.[/quote:ve2kbj7i]
are you a fucking doctor dude?
just because vaccines arent natural doesn't mean im against them that's just out of nowhere bullshit like calling someone you don't a agree with a nazi which have done like 50 times by this point.
you got a bit of a point with the tails of horns things but the cause may be natural but the effect is not if we compare to most humans.
i have given the same reason why non binary isn't natural 20 fucking times and it hassent been cause I think so its cause it doesn't fucking exist just because someone thinks they are doesn't mean they are, just because their chromosomes or parts are fucked up doesn't mean they cant be categorized nor prove the categorizations arent real[/quote:ve2kbj7i]
Also, never called anyone a nazi, even though the arguments you are using are edging close to that line.

[quote="BoomerDuels":w611ponc][quote="Renji Asuka":w611ponc]I really wanted to stay out of this debate entirely and frankly this thread should had been locked earlier. I been around twitter too long dealing with LGBTQ+ nonsense. But I'm left with no choice.

First, let's cut the crap regarding "Gender is a social construct"

The idea that gender is a social construct is relatively new by a very screwed up individuals being one of the founders to the idea. John Money, who raised a pair of twin boys. One as a boy, and one as a girl. He forced the one that was raised as a girl to be in sexual submissive poses while taking pictures, forced to grow their hair out, forced to wear dresses and play with dolls. He declared his experiment as a success.

Meanwhile the one raised as a girl played with his brother's toys in secret. 1 twin died from drug overdose. The other died from blowing his brains out with a sawn off shotgun.

If you still believe that gender is a social construct after learning this, then you quite literally support this experiment which would show how terrible of a person you really are.

Also important to note: DO NOT GIVE IN TO THE DELUSIONS OF THE MENTALLY ILL. Would you give into the delusions of a schizophrenic person? No, it's dangerous for everyone involved. Why would you do the same for people who don't know which bathroom to use? Do not expect me to call you by your preferred crap. If you have a fully functional vagina, you are a woman. End of story. If you have a fully functional penis you are a man. End of story. A woman cannot be a man and a man cannot be a woman. There is no "ands, if's or but" about it.[/quote:w611ponc]

You understand that you both attack a strawman, give into reductio ad absurdum argumet fallacy, and assert "Common Sense" as superceding reality

1. The "Social Construct" theory does not get invalidated by 1 man and 1 man alone. Your argument is essentially, "1 man was a dickhead therefore, the point that him, alongside millions of thers were making is wrong" which is not a veyry suitable argument. You also attack a strawman here, no-one is even using that as the main justification of their transgenderism. Over the past few decades, we have compiled strides in psychological research all of which confirms transgenderism neurological perspective, rather than a sociological one

2. You engage in Reductio ad Absurdum while also proclaiming that "Common Sense" is a better argument than reason. You blew up "we should listen to non-binary people" to, "Should we also listen to schitzophremic people, while also equating those as equally valid claims. You cannot do this and also claim that your argument doesnt lose its validity immediately. Transgender and Non-binary people are not schitzophrenic. And you seem to go by a simple "Men have penises, women have vaginas" argument, which you conpletely refused to back up. While it is true that this applies to most people, you use the common sense, to refer to someone with a penis as male, as a supposed argument which does not have anything to do with the argument we try to make[/quote:w611ponc]

Whilst this is true, it can also be argued that Excellionz is relying heavily on argumentum ad verecundiam (or appeal to authority) in their own statements - which depending on who you ask is fallacious in its own right.

Either way, there is a lot of cognitive and confirmation biases being thrown around on all sides.

[quote="ScottyAdams":33eyw4mp][quote="BoomerDuels":33eyw4mp][quote="Renji Asuka":33eyw4mp]I really wanted to stay out of this debate entirely and frankly this thread should had been locked earlier. I been around twitter too long dealing with LGBTQ+ nonsense. But I'm left with no choice.

First, let's cut the crap regarding "Gender is a social construct"

The idea that gender is a social construct is relatively new by a very screwed up individuals being one of the founders to the idea. John Money, who raised a pair of twin boys. One as a boy, and one as a girl. He forced the one that was raised as a girl to be in sexual submissive poses while taking pictures, forced to grow their hair out, forced to wear dresses and play with dolls. He declared his experiment as a success.

Meanwhile the one raised as a girl played with his brother's toys in secret. 1 twin died from drug overdose. The other died from blowing his brains out with a sawn off shotgun.

If you still believe that gender is a social construct after learning this, then you quite literally support this experiment which would show how terrible of a person you really are.

Also important to note: DO NOT GIVE IN TO THE DELUSIONS OF THE MENTALLY ILL. Would you give into the delusions of a schizophrenic person? No, it's dangerous for everyone involved. Why would you do the same for people who don't know which bathroom to use? Do not expect me to call you by your preferred crap. If you have a fully functional vagina, you are a woman. End of story. If you have a fully functional penis you are a man. End of story. A woman cannot be a man and a man cannot be a woman. There is no "ands, if's or but" about it.[/quote:33eyw4mp]

You understand that you both attack a strawman, give into reductio ad absurdum argumet fallacy, and assert "Common Sense" as superceding reality

1. The "Social Construct" theory does not get invalidated by 1 man and 1 man alone. Your argument is essentially, "1 man was a dickhead therefore, the point that him, alongside millions of thers were making is wrong" which is not a veyry suitable argument. You also attack a strawman here, no-one is even using that as the main justification of their transgenderism. Over the past few decades, we have compiled strides in psychological research all of which confirms transgenderism neurological perspective, rather than a sociological one

2. You engage in Reductio ad Absurdum while also proclaiming that "Common Sense" is a better argument than reason. You blew up "we should listen to non-binary people" to, "Should we also listen to schitzophremic people, while also equating those as equally valid claims. You cannot do this and also claim that your argument doesnt lose its validity immediately. Transgender and Non-binary people are not schitzophrenic. And you seem to go by a simple "Men have penises, women have vaginas" argument, which you conpletely refused to back up. While it is true that this applies to most people, you use the common sense, to refer to someone with a penis as male, as a supposed argument which does not have anything to do with the argument we try to make[/quote:33eyw4mp]

Whilst this is true, it can also be argued that Excellionz is relying heavily on argumentum ad verecundiam (or appeal to authority) in their own statements - which depending on who you ask is fallacious in its own right.

Either way, there is a lot of cognitive and confirmation biases being thrown around on all sides.[/quote:33eyw4mp]

I agree with you there. It does take me quite a bit to remind myself that not everything and everyone that agrees with me is automatically true. It just seems to me that the experts in this topic seem to all agree that transgender people's identity are valid, so I really don't see a reason to disbelieve them when there hasn't been much work trying to disprove it - however this entire previous claim is an appeal to authority in it's own right, so do take it with a grain of salt

[quote="Excellion":37ra87wp][quote="Christen57":37ra87wp][quote="Excellion":37ra87wp][/quote:37ra87wp]

"Klinefelter syndrome is a chromosomal condition in boys and men that can affect physical and intellectual development." - your medlineplus.gov source

This would mean you having XXY chromosomes still makes you male.

Then why would it matter what they put as their gender?

Because there are still only 2 genders. Male and female.

Right... then why shouldnt gender be any different?

Because there's no need to allow any additional genders to be added besides the 2 already displayed: Male and Female.

"Lost third gender of japan" covers it.

Could you link to it?

Not genetically... which was the point youre bith trying to make, if its a binary system then there are only xy or xx, if its xxy or xyy or yy, it is not, by your definition, a male or female, thats the point.

If it's XXY or XYY, either of those would still make you male as you still have at least 1 Y chromosome, and YY hasn't existed as a chromosome pair in anyone so far.

Yes, they can artifical incemination can be done between 2 females using bone marrow to inceminate an egg

Even if you extract sperm and put it in the woman to impregnate her, the sperm still requires a male to produce and donate to begin with, no?

First off who decides what is considered "new" and "old" and who said north america sets the standards for social norms?

"New" meaning, compared to the Roman, Greek, and Japanese locations you listed (which you said had this for hundreds of thousands of years or so), it hasn't been widely done before in America.

Social norms can vary somewhat from country to country and can also overlap somewhat. It can be the "social norm" in one country to make up and accept additional genders besides male and female but not in another country.[/quote:37ra87wp]
The decriptor given for "male" and "female" as provided by genexwrecker is "xy" or "yy" which they are not.[/quote:37ra87wp]

Genexwrecker gave no such descriptor. She said there are only "male" and "female" genders and that if you have something like XXY or XYY you're still ultimately male.

Also no if you read what i stated insimination is between 2 females they extract  bonemarrow to then fertilize an egg no sperm, no Male, no nothing.

How much does this stuff cost (because here it's saying the price ranges from $1,700 to $7,000)? [url:37ra87wp]https://www.mdsave.com/procedures/bone-biopsy-or-aspiration/d783fdc4[/url:37ra87wp]

Other places say it's more than that, like, tens of thousands of dollars.

Who's realistically gonna spend that much money just to have some of their own bone marrow extracted for a pregnancy when, with a help of just a fully grown male, getting pregnant can be done for free?

And you are using completely subjective and arbitrary dates for what is "new" and "old" the newest nation is still roughly 40-50 years, in that tike non binary persons were a thing in egypt, in europe and in asia. Thatw left than a life time, not "new" enough for you?

I'm basing this purely off of what you said earlier:

Non binary prefix in rome and greese, duel names in egypt denoting both masc and fem, all of hinduism japans long tradition of fluid gender identity, it is seen in just shy of every continent but the US for hundreds of thousands of years

In order words, you're saying that, for hundreds of thousands of years, most continents but North America practiced this stuff, no? In that case, this would be considered "new" (or "newer") in North America compared to those other continents.

You guys have yet to actually give any reason or source for any of your bigotry

You can't be bigoted towards that which does not exist. There is no real "attack helicopter" gender for us to be bigoted towards, and ScottyAdams in this thread clarified that "Wakashu" isn't a gender either but rather an orientation.

meanwhile ive provided 4 medical journals, 2 reports from the DoA, and several reputable articles regarding the history of nonbinary persons

You've provided nothing of the sort. The only things you cited so far in this thread are these 6:
[list:37ra87wp][*:37ra87wp][url:37ra87wp]https://www.americanprogress.org/article/key-issues-facing-people-intersex-traits/[/url:37ra87wp][/*:m:37ra87wp]
[*:37ra87wp][url:37ra87wp]https://www.apa.org/pi/ses/resources/publications/lgbt[/url:37ra87wp][/*:m:37ra87wp]
[*:37ra87wp][url:37ra87wp]https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/press/ncvs-lgbt-violence-press-release/[/url:37ra87wp][/*:m:37ra87wp]
[*:37ra87wp][url:37ra87wp]https://www.jstor.org/stable/3813612[/url:37ra87wp][/*:m:37ra87wp]
[*:37ra87wp][url:37ra87wp]https://www.thetrevorproject.org/resources/article/facts-about-lgbtq-youth-suicide/[/url:37ra87wp][/*:m:37ra87wp]
[*:37ra87wp][url:37ra87wp]https://medlineplus.gov/genetics/condition/klinefelter-syndrome/[/url:37ra87wp][/*:m:37ra87wp][/list:u:37ra87wp]

None of which have anything to do with any history of a truly nonbinary person existing, while some of them only say that some males can be born with some female-looking genitalia, and vice versa. However, in those cases, your gender is still still either "male" or "female" (just with said genitalia that looks like that of the opposite sex), not "neither gender" or "non-binary".

if by now you dont see the problem replace what youve said so far about non binary persons with any ethnic race of your choosing and see how it sounds.

I said this before and I'll say it again: Unlike the genders you're making up, races and colors do exist and can be visibly observed.

YES humans HAVE changed gender via hormone therapy the same process as other animals in the wild

Humans can change the chromosomes and chromosome combinations they were born with through a little "therapy"?

[quote="BoomerDuels":37ra87wp][quote="Christen57":37ra87wp][quote="Excellion":37ra87wp]
Exactly, then entitled binary people dont need to display their heterosexuality either, thats why im saying remove the gender selector all together if someone wants their gender to be known.[/quote:37ra87wp]

You do have the option to hide your gender as multiple people already pointed out that you can leave the thing blank instead of picking male or female. That counts as "removing it" and thus fits your criteria of it being "removed".

Non binary prefix in rome and greese

Some parts of the world doing it a long time ago doesn't make it valid today. I'm sure Rome and Greece also, for a long time, believed in their Gods and pseudosciences, and believed in witches/witchcraft, human sacrifices/rituals, preserving the corpses of pharaohs so they could have the appropriate body needed to move on to the afterlife, and so on, and I bet that they abandoned all of this once science and technology were introduced and evolved to disprove many of these things.

Genexwrecker is saying gender is "biological" then ignores intersex persons people of "Yy" or "xxy" chromosome pairings

No one in history has ever had either of those chromosome combinations as far as I'm aware.[/quote:37ra87wp]


You miss the point entirely. No-one has ever claimed in history that we should adopt every practice from ancient Rome or Greece. This was merely a way of showing that LGBT rights isnt just an entirely modern thing. You really do go out of your way to attack a strawman[/quote:37ra87wp]

I'm claiming we shouldn't adopt the practice of sexually identifying as "attack helicopter" and whatnot just because some Romans and Greeks may have done so in the past.

Secondly, not showing your gender, is different than showing your lack of a gender. These are different concepts. Someone who identifies as neither a male or a female is different than a male who would rather not show his gender

No evidence was shown yet by either you or Excellion that a person with a true "lack of a gender" exists. Simply choosing to "identify as neither a male nor a female" doesn't automatically make you neither "male nor female" just like how simply choosing to identify as an attack helicopter doesn't automatically transform you into an attack helicopter.

What does make you male or female is the chromosome combination you were born with. If you were born with the chromosome combination "XX," you're female (regardless of what other "defects" might've come along with that). If you were born with the chromosome combination of "XY," "XYY," or "XXY," you're male, at least according to the sources shown so far by Excellion. Funny how, so far, every source he's cited to "debunk" me has either supported my case instead or at least failed to support his case that there's some third real gender out there.

It just seems to me that the experts in this topic seem to all agree that transgender people's identity are valid, so I really don't see a reason to disbelieve them

I would rather see those experts "prove" it or provide evidence of it (instead of just blindly "agreeing" that it's valid to pander to the entitled and make themselves look good). Them simply "seeming to all agree" on it doesn't automatically make it valid. An example of what would make it valid is if a new chromosome combination was discovered and shown in some born humans that hasn't yet been classified as belonging to the male or female gender.

I woke up this morning to 12 notifications all stemming from this topic. We've gone so far from the original scope of the question, and I'm not comfortable having this discussion continue here.

Locked.