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I have been seeing that a good amount of times when I go on DB rated I don't run into competitive decks. I have the most fun on DB when I run into top tier decks like prank kids. It annoys me that I run into decks like Altergeist even though I can beat them easily I don't feel like wasting 40 minutes on a deck like that.

Me when stuck in low ladder

Wow, people want to play decks they like?????

[quote="greg503":lulrfao4]Wow, people want to play decks they like?????[/quote:lulrfao4]
How outrageous! What will we do? Play unchained until the end of time?!

I love how this is in suggestions, yet doesn't suggest a damn thing.

and what is the suggestion for us the staff who run the website because we have 0 control over what decks are played? you the players do that.

[quote="Genexwrecker":pwlgqit4]and what is the suggestion for us the staff who run the website because we have 0 control over what decks are played? you the players do that.[/quote:pwlgqit4]
I am suggesting once you start reaching 300-400 rating you should be playing against more top tier better decks.

[quote="Sound4":obtv2obz][quote="Genexwrecker":obtv2obz]and what is the suggestion for us the staff who run the website because we have 0 control over what decks are played? you the players do that.[/quote:obtv2obz]
I am suggesting once you start reaching 300-400 rating you should be playing against more top tier better decks.[/quote:obtv2obz]
There is absolutely nothing we can do for that. If you want to start facing better decks, you need to win more. What people play at what rating is out of our control.

[quote="Sound4":1pnt0jed][quote="Genexwrecker":1pnt0jed]and what is the suggestion for us the staff who run the website because we have 0 control over what decks are played? you the players do that.[/quote:1pnt0jed]
I am suggesting once you start reaching 300-400 rating you should be playing against more top tier better decks.[/quote:1pnt0jed]
Have you ever heard of any ycs event refusing a top teir player for using rogue and not meta?

[quote="Sound4":3cgmv8tz][quote="Genexwrecker":3cgmv8tz]and what is the suggestion for us the staff who run the website because we have 0 control over what decks are played? you the players do that.[/quote:3cgmv8tz]
I am suggesting once you start reaching 300-400 rating you should be playing against more top tier better decks.[/quote:3cgmv8tz]
I find it funny. You act as if Unchained is Rogue Tier...then proceed to make this thread....

I can't even...

[quote="Genexwrecker":24iwcehw][quote="Sound4":24iwcehw][quote="Genexwrecker":24iwcehw]and what is the suggestion for us the staff who run the website because we have 0 control over what decks are played? you the players do that.[/quote:24iwcehw]
I am suggesting once you start reaching 300-400 rating you should be playing against more top tier better decks.[/quote:24iwcehw]
Have you ever heard of any ycs event refusing a top teir player for using rogue and not meta?[/quote:24iwcehw]
What are you suggesting?

[quote="Renji Asuka":i5xn8foo][quote="Sound4":i5xn8foo][quote="Genexwrecker":i5xn8foo]and what is the suggestion for us the staff who run the website because we have 0 control over what decks are played? you the players do that.[/quote:i5xn8foo]
I am suggesting once you start reaching 300-400 rating you should be playing against more top tier better decks.[/quote:i5xn8foo]
I find it funny. You act as if Unchained is Rogue Tier...then proceed to make this thread....

I can't even...[/quote:i5xn8foo]
Yet Unchained is Rogue. There is nothing suggesting that it isn't.

[quote="itsmetristan":1foc6v4y][quote="Sound4":1foc6v4y][quote="Genexwrecker":1foc6v4y]and what is the suggestion for us the staff who run the website because we have 0 control over what decks are played? you the players do that.[/quote:1foc6v4y]
I am suggesting once you start reaching 300-400 rating you should be playing against more top tier better decks.[/quote:1foc6v4y]
There is absolutely nothing we can do for that. If you want to start facing better decks, you need to win more. What people play at what rating is out of our control.[/quote:1foc6v4y]
How do I play more when I consistently run into boring decks? It doesn't give you the motivation to play. I find this weird as when I play on Nexus I run into way better decks consistently.

[quote="Sound4":1ed890ju][quote="itsmetristan":1ed890ju][quote="Sound4":1ed890ju]
I am suggesting once you start reaching 300-400 rating you should be playing against more top tier better decks.[/quote:1ed890ju]
There is absolutely nothing we can do for that. If you want to start facing better decks, you need to win more. What people play at what rating is out of our control.[/quote:1ed890ju]
How do you play more when I consistently run into boring decks? It doesn't give you the motivation to play. I find this weird as when I play on Nexus I run into way better decks consistently.[/quote:1ed890ju]
the first part of your sentence doesn't make sense.
if you don't like boring decks leave cause boring is pretty subjective.
nexus is a shithole with crackhead decks if you like it better go there

[quote="PENMASTER":xiytzvz0][quote="Sound4":xiytzvz0][quote="itsmetristan":xiytzvz0]
There is absolutely nothing we can do for that. If you want to start facing better decks, you need to win more. What people play at what rating is out of our control.[/quote:xiytzvz0]
How do you play more when I consistently run into boring decks? It doesn't give you the motivation to play. I find this weird as when I play on Nexus I run into way better decks consistently.[/quote:xiytzvz0]
the first part of your sentence doesn't make sense.
if you don't like boring decks leave cause boring is pretty subjective.
nexus is a shithole with crackhead decks if you like it better go there[/quote:xiytzvz0]
The banlist is the same as the TCG banlist. Nexus is really good quick and fun.

[quote="Sound4":462h46nb][quote="Genexwrecker":462h46nb]and what is the suggestion for us the staff who run the website because we have 0 control over what decks are played? you the players do that.[/quote:462h46nb]
I am suggesting once you start reaching 300-400 rating you should be playing against more top tier better decks.[/quote:462h46nb]

Why would you be facing more top tier decks at beginner ratings?

Mf really complaining about table 500 matches

[quote="Sound4":2hadgqxn][quote="Renji Asuka":2hadgqxn][quote="Sound4":2hadgqxn]
I am suggesting once you start reaching 300-400 rating you should be playing against more top tier better decks.[/quote:2hadgqxn]
I find it funny. You act as if Unchained is Rogue Tier...then proceed to make this thread....

I can't even...[/quote:2hadgqxn]
Yet Unchained is Rogue. There is nothing suggesting that it isn't.[/quote:2hadgqxn]
Unchained isn't rogue, it's trash tier lmao

By your own suggestion you wouldn't be allowed to play Unchained in Ranked lmao

[quote="Sound4":1zvjo75i][quote="Renji Asuka":1zvjo75i][quote="Sound4":1zvjo75i]
I am suggesting once you start reaching 300-400 rating you should be playing against more top tier better decks.[/quote:1zvjo75i]
I find it funny. You act as if Unchained is Rogue Tier...then proceed to make this thread....

I can't even...[/quote:1zvjo75i]
Yet Unchained is Rogue. There is nothing suggesting that it isn't.[/quote:1zvjo75i]
There's nothing suggesting Metaphys isn't rouge either then

[quote="Sound4":8nk469fc][quote="itsmetristan":8nk469fc][quote="Sound4":8nk469fc]
I am suggesting once you start reaching 300-400 rating you should be playing against more top tier better decks.[/quote:8nk469fc]
There is absolutely nothing we can do for that. If you want to start facing better decks, you need to win more. What people play at what rating is out of our control.[/quote:8nk469fc]
How do I play more when I consistently run into boring decks? It doesn't give you the motivation to play. I find this weird as when I play on Nexus I run into way better decks consistently.[/quote:8nk469fc]
Nobody is forcing you to play on DB. If you don't want to play enough to rank up, don't expect to consistently face good decks. It's the same for any game with a ranking system. You can't expect to consistently see good players at the lower ranks.

69-90 rating - has negative boosted their way to permanant beginner status
90-100 rating - lost first few games brand new to the site
100-200 rating - Has not played yet this format needs to learn how the new list works
200-300 rating - is practicing with their decks
300-400 rating - have found decks they like for the format and are trying to improve them
500-600 rating - still incompetent at meta play but fairs well against other rogue decks
600-700 rating - learning their deck sucks compared to the meta
700-800 rating - Has learned the side deck exists
800-900 rating - thinks mst negates
900-1000 rating - Has learned some core mechanics and is now learnining a meta deck
1000-1100 rating - Has learned the meta deck and has officially started the top player rating grind
1100-1200 rating - ego has set in from crushing the other decks that are bad match ups for that quick rating jump
1200 -1500 rating - plays against nothing but 1-2 decks and sweats every game
1500+ rating - Officially in the very top teir of players on duelingbook for the format but still thinks mst negates.


Here is a breakdown of differently ranked players from my experience of taking calls and watching games and from my own time in the rated pool. most i ever got to was 600

A little question: How many rating do we usually get on our first rated match? (When we're still 100/0)

[quote="Genexwrecker":2vcq5r82]1100-1200 rating - ego has set in from crushing the other decks that are bad match ups for that quick rating jump
1200 -1500 rating - plays against nothing but 1-2 decks and sweats every game
[/quote:2vcq5r82]

Me in a nutshell.

[quote="itsmetristan":2wwbx6xc][quote="Sound4":2wwbx6xc][quote="itsmetristan":2wwbx6xc]
There is absolutely nothing we can do for that. If you want to start facing better decks, you need to win more. What people play at what rating is out of our control.[/quote:2wwbx6xc]
How do I play more when I consistently run into boring decks? It doesn't give you the motivation to play. I find this weird as when I play on Nexus I run into way better decks consistently.[/quote:2wwbx6xc]
Nobody is forcing you to play on DB. If you don't want to play enough to rank up, don't expect to consistently face good decks. It's the same for any game with a ranking system. You can't expect to consistently see good players at the lower ranks.[/quote:2wwbx6xc]

Tbf, not every ranking system resets their ratings. DB has a bit of an extended fluff period rating climb wise you'd have to deal with every format. I think the reset each time gets a bit extreme.

I don't disagree with the idea you have to win your way up in general though.

[quote="greg503":1ezatske][quote="Sound4":1ezatske][quote="Renji Asuka":1ezatske]
I find it funny. You act as if Unchained is Rogue Tier...then proceed to make this thread....

I can't even...[/quote:1ezatske]
Yet Unchained is Rogue. There is nothing suggesting that it isn't.[/quote:1ezatske]
There's nothing suggesting Metaphys isn't rouge either then [/quote:1ezatske]
Metaphys isn't bad they are just missing a few cards.

[quote="itsmetristan":151s8e46][quote="Sound4":151s8e46][quote="itsmetristan":151s8e46]
There is absolutely nothing we can do for that. If you want to start facing better decks, you need to win more. What people play at what rating is out of our control.[/quote:151s8e46]
How do I play more when I consistently run into boring decks? It doesn't give you the motivation to play. I find this weird as when I play on Nexus I run into way better decks consistently.[/quote:151s8e46]
Nobody is forcing you to play on DB. If you don't want to play enough to rank up, don't expect to consistently face good decks. It's the same for any game with a ranking system. You can't expect to consistently see good players at the lower ranks.[/quote:151s8e46]
Hslf of your post wasn't what I was talking about. I am asking to get played against better competition it seems like to me you just get picked who you are up against on who gets linked up with you first. As in the Prank Kid player with over 1000 rating I beat with unchained I should have never played against him in the first place as he way higher rating. So there is an inconsistentcy in the rating pool.

[quote="Renji Asuka":1vtwy2he][quote="Sound4":1vtwy2he][quote="Renji Asuka":1vtwy2he]
I find it funny. You act as if Unchained is Rogue Tier...then proceed to make this thread....

I can't even...[/quote:1vtwy2he]
Yet Unchained is Rogue. There is nothing suggesting that it isn't.[/quote:1vtwy2he]
Unchained isn't rogue, it's trash tier lmao

By your own suggestion you wouldn't be allowed to play Unchained in Ranked lmao[/quote:1vtwy2he]
You say you tested Unchained but you say it is bad. You need to understand the Deck correctly in order to play it correctly. Plus you need to have good ratios.

[quote="Sound4":1kd55yes][quote="itsmetristan":1kd55yes][quote="Sound4":1kd55yes]
How do I play more when I consistently run into boring decks? It doesn't give you the motivation to play. I find this weird as when I play on Nexus I run into way better decks consistently.[/quote:1kd55yes]
Nobody is forcing you to play on DB. If you don't want to play enough to rank up, don't expect to consistently face good decks. It's the same for any game with a ranking system. You can't expect to consistently see good players at the lower ranks.[/quote:1kd55yes]
Hslf of your post wasn't what I was talking about. I am asking to get played against better competition it seems like to me you just get picked who you are up against on who gets linked up with you first. As in the Prank Kid player with over 1000 rating I beat with unchained I should have never played against him in the first place as he way higher rating. So there is an inconsistentcy in the rating pool.[/quote:1kd55yes]
Just climb ladder then. You are currently in bottom to mid ladder

[quote="Sound4":rh2df8d6][quote="greg503":rh2df8d6][quote="Sound4":rh2df8d6]
Yet Unchained is Rogue. There is nothing suggesting that it isn't.[/quote:rh2df8d6]
There's nothing suggesting Metaphys isn't rouge either then [/quote:rh2df8d6]
Metaphys isn't bad they are just missing a few cards.[/quote:rh2df8d6]
Then play it in a tournament

[quote="Sound4":3po7klx4][quote="Renji Asuka":3po7klx4][quote="Sound4":3po7klx4]
Yet Unchained is Rogue. There is nothing suggesting that it isn't.[/quote:3po7klx4]
Unchained isn't rogue, it's trash tier lmao

By your own suggestion you wouldn't be allowed to play Unchained in Ranked lmao[/quote:3po7klx4]
You say you tested Unchained but you say it is bad. You need to understand the Deck correctly in order to play it correctly. Plus you need to have good ratios.[/quote:3po7klx4]
Unchained is still trash bruh. Also you can try and polish shit, but it is still shit.

[quote="Renji Asuka":lwt0cg5z][quote="Sound4":lwt0cg5z][quote="Renji Asuka":lwt0cg5z]
Unchained isn't rogue, it's trash tier lmao

By your own suggestion you wouldn't be allowed to play Unchained in Ranked lmao[/quote:lwt0cg5z]
You say you tested Unchained but you say it is bad. You need to understand the Deck correctly in order to play it correctly. Plus you need to have good ratios.[/quote:lwt0cg5z]
Unchained is still trash bruh. Also you can try and polish shit, but it is still shit.[/quote:lwt0cg5z]
Actually I have found the best Unchained deck which is consistent and it is really good.

[quote="greg503":57g4kat1][quote="Sound4":57g4kat1][quote="greg503":57g4kat1]
There's nothing suggesting Metaphys isn't rouge either then [/quote:57g4kat1]
Metaphys isn't bad they are just missing a few cards.[/quote:57g4kat1]
Then play it in a tournament[/quote:57g4kat1]
No thanks.

[quote="Lil Oldman":23dhkjlo][quote="Sound4":23dhkjlo][quote="itsmetristan":23dhkjlo]
Nobody is forcing you to play on DB. If you don't want to play enough to rank up, don't expect to consistently face good decks. It's the same for any game with a ranking system. You can't expect to consistently see good players at the lower ranks.[/quote:23dhkjlo]
Hslf of your post wasn't what I was talking about. I am asking to get played against better competition it seems like to me you just get picked who you are up against on who gets linked up with you first. As in the Prank Kid player with over 1000 rating I beat with unchained I should have never played against him in the first place as he way higher rating. So there is an inconsistentcy in the rating pool.[/quote:23dhkjlo]
Just climb ladder then. You are currently in bottom to mid ladder[/quote:23dhkjlo]
It is not that simple.

[quote="Sound4":1wunyfuq][quote="Lil Oldman":1wunyfuq][quote="Sound4":1wunyfuq]
Hslf of your post wasn't what I was talking about. I am asking to get played against better competition it seems like to me you just get picked who you are up against on who gets linked up with you first. As in the Prank Kid player with over 1000 rating I beat with unchained I should have never played against him in the first place as he way higher rating. So there is an inconsistentcy in the rating pool.[/quote:1wunyfuq]
Just climb ladder then. You are currently in bottom to mid ladder[/quote:1wunyfuq]
It is not that simple.[/quote:1wunyfuq]
Did you mean: "I am not good enough to climb ladder"?

[quote="Sound4":28ikklgo][quote="Lil Oldman":28ikklgo][quote="Sound4":28ikklgo]
Hslf of your post wasn't what I was talking about. I am asking to get played against better competition it seems like to me you just get picked who you are up against on who gets linked up with you first. As in the Prank Kid player with over 1000 rating I beat with unchained I should have never played against him in the first place as he way higher rating. So there is an inconsistentcy in the rating pool.[/quote:28ikklgo]
Just climb ladder then. You are currently in bottom to mid ladder[/quote:28ikklgo]
It is not that simple.[/quote:28ikklgo]
The only way to climb db ranked is to as the kids say "git guud"

[quote="Sound4":cvla61jf][quote="Renji Asuka":cvla61jf][quote="Sound4":cvla61jf]
You say you tested Unchained but you say it is bad. You need to understand the Deck correctly in order to play it correctly. Plus you need to have good ratios.[/quote:cvla61jf]
Unchained is still trash bruh. Also you can try and polish shit, but it is still shit.[/quote:cvla61jf]
Actually I have found the best Unchained deck which is consistent and it is really good.[/quote:cvla61jf]
Unchained and good doesn't belong in the same sentence.

Also you can't climb in ranked? Maybe you shouldn't be trying to climb with Unchained. Oh wait, didn't you say Unchained is "really good and consistent"? So which is it? Why aren't you a higher rank if the deck was "really good and consistent"?

[quote="Renji Asuka":3pjgv6s8][quote="Sound4":3pjgv6s8][quote="Renji Asuka":3pjgv6s8]
Unchained is still trash bruh. Also you can try and polish shit, but it is still shit.[/quote:3pjgv6s8]
Actually I have found the best Unchained deck which is consistent and it is really good.[/quote:3pjgv6s8]
Unchained and good doesn't belong in the same sentence.

Also you can't climb in ranked? Maybe you shouldn't be trying to climb with Unchained. Oh wait, didn't you say Unchained is "really good and consistent"? So which is it? Why aren't you a higher rank if the deck was "really good and consistent"?[/quote:3pjgv6s8]
Remember when I said that the DB shuffling system was not good? After that I changed my deck completely and didn't play on rated for a while to test out what goes well in the Deck and make it more consistent. Plus yes I can climb in ranked if I played against better deck as that is when I have the most fun. That duel against the Prank Kid ayer was really fun as he was playing a meta deck and we were competing.

[quote="Genexwrecker":3w38l1ib][quote="Sound4":3w38l1ib][quote="Lil Oldman":3w38l1ib]
Just climb ladder then. You are currently in bottom to mid ladder[/quote:3w38l1ib]
It is not that simple.[/quote:3w38l1ib]
The only way to climb db ranked is to as the kids say "git guud"[/quote:3w38l1ib]
I think I am pretty good I got to Diamond in Nexus with Unchained.

[quote="Lil Oldman":b5bx4u7e][quote="Sound4":b5bx4u7e][quote="Lil Oldman":b5bx4u7e]
Just climb ladder then. You are currently in bottom to mid ladder[/quote:b5bx4u7e]
It is not that simple.[/quote:b5bx4u7e]
Did you mean: "I am not good enough to climb ladder"?[/quote:b5bx4u7e]
No

[quote="Sound4":5t803biu][quote="Lil Oldman":5t803biu][quote="Sound4":5t803biu]
It is not that simple.[/quote:5t803biu]
Did you mean: "I am not good enough to climb ladder"?[/quote:5t803biu]
No[/quote:5t803biu]
Well clearly, you did.

[quote="Sound4":22jki68f][quote="Renji Asuka":22jki68f][quote="Sound4":22jki68f]
Actually I have found the best Unchained deck which is consistent and it is really good.[/quote:22jki68f]
Unchained and good doesn't belong in the same sentence.

Also you can't climb in ranked? Maybe you shouldn't be trying to climb with Unchained. Oh wait, didn't you say Unchained is "really good and consistent"? So which is it? Why aren't you a higher rank if the deck was "really good and consistent"?[/quote:22jki68f]
Remember when I said that the DB shuffling system was not good? After that I changed my deck completely and didn't play on rated for a while to test out what goes well in the Deck and make it more consistent. Plus yes I can climb in ranked if I played against better deck as that is when I have the most fun. That duel against the Prank Kid ayer was really fun as he was playing a meta deck and we were competing.[/quote:22jki68f]
If you played against better decks, you wouldn't climb with Unchained LMAO

[quote="Renji Asuka":3221hbjc][quote="Sound4":3221hbjc][quote="Renji Asuka":3221hbjc]
Unchained and good doesn't belong in the same sentence.

Also you can't climb in ranked? Maybe you shouldn't be trying to climb with Unchained. Oh wait, didn't you say Unchained is "really good and consistent"? So which is it? Why aren't you a higher rank if the deck was "really good and consistent"?[/quote:3221hbjc]
Remember when I said that the DB shuffling system was not good? After that I changed my deck completely and didn't play on rated for a while to test out what goes well in the Deck and make it more consistent. Plus yes I can climb in ranked if I played against better deck as that is when I have the most fun. That duel against the Prank Kid ayer was really fun as he was playing a meta deck and we were competing.[/quote:3221hbjc]
If you played against better decks, you wouldn't climb with Unchained LMAO[/quote:3221hbjc]
But I could and I have on Dueling nexus.

[quote="Sound4":3f2jzh7j][quote="Renji Asuka":3f2jzh7j][quote="Sound4":3f2jzh7j]
Remember when I said that the DB shuffling system was not good? After that I changed my deck completely and didn't play on rated for a while to test out what goes well in the Deck and make it more consistent. Plus yes I can climb in ranked if I played against better deck as that is when I have the most fun. That duel against the Prank Kid ayer was really fun as he was playing a meta deck and we were competing.[/quote:3f2jzh7j]
If you played against better decks, you wouldn't climb with Unchained LMAO[/quote:3f2jzh7j]
But I could and I have on Dueling nexus.[/quote:3f2jzh7j]

Again, nice record

[quote="greg503":2hjja91n][quote="Sound4":2hjja91n][quote="Renji Asuka":2hjja91n]
If you played against better decks, you wouldn't climb with Unchained LMAO[/quote:2hjja91n]
But I could and I have on Dueling nexus.[/quote:2hjja91n]

Again, nice record[/quote:2hjja91n]
It would actually be helpful to you if you watched the replays. Nice out of context screenshot.

I don't know how db's rated pool works.

Regardless, the problem appears to be that you just want to skip straight to the top tier without working for it, which is just lazy and entitled behavior. If you're not able or willing (there is evidence of both) to work through the low/mid-tier, then you certainly don't deserve to play in the top tier.

[quote="Sound4":20cco2fo][quote="greg503":20cco2fo][quote="Sound4":20cco2fo]
But I could and I have on Dueling nexus.[/quote:20cco2fo]

Again, nice record[/quote:20cco2fo]
It would actually be helpful to you if you watched the replays. Nice out of context screenshot.[/quote:20cco2fo]

I'll watch them, starting with your duel against IHAVEMOUSTACHE. [url:20cco2fo]https://www.duelingbook.com/replay?id=38292678[/url:20cco2fo]
This replay ends with you randomly quitting for some reason after using Triple Tactics Talent. Speaking of that card, I'm not sure if running even 1, let alone 2, copies of it is a good idea. It being hard once per turn makes it especially awful, as you now want to run 3 copies to ensure you see it often, but at the same time don't want to run 3 because one of them becomes a dead card if you open up with 2, and it's not a starter either, so you wouldn't want to run multiple copies of that for that reason either. It may be help you against hand traps, but I'd rather play more extenders that let you play through hand traps (such as Monster Reborn).

[url:20cco2fo]https://www.duelingbook.com/replay?id=38270003[/url:20cco2fo]
In this replay, you lose to ThePendulumGOD because you keep blowing your own field up with Torrential Tribute until you run completely out of cards while they still have cards.

[url:20cco2fo]https://www.duelingbook.com/replay?id=38270263[/url:20cco2fo]
In this replay, you quit before the duel even starts, giving Malakai10 free rating/exp which is probably boosting.

[url:20cco2fo]https://www.duelingbook.com/replay?id=38264417[/url:20cco2fo]
This duel of yours against palameda is why I dislike running hand traps so much unless they actually synergize with the deck in question. I prefer to instead play cards (such as The Winged Dragon of Ra - Sphere Mode) that can actually break boards instead of just monsters with hand effects that may or may not slow down the opponent as they assemble said boards.

[url:20cco2fo]https://www.duelingbook.com/replay?id=38269892[/url:20cco2fo]
Now, I already told Lil Oldman this, but I'll tell you as well. It's not a good idea to play more than 1 copy of a hand trap that's hard once per turn. In this case, since you ended up drawing a total of 2 Ash Blossoms, you could only activate 1 while the other remained a dead card in your hand throughout the opponent's turn. Replace 1 of those Ash Blossoms with another hand trap that either doesn't have a hard once per turn or is one you're not already running. It's better to draw 2 different hand traps that can each be used in the same turn than to draw 2 copies of the same hard-once-per-turn hand trap only able to use 1 of them that turn. If that second Ash Blossom in your hand had been a different hand trap, you may have been able to stop Kongziii from combo-ing off. Similarly, in your previous duel with ThePendulumGOD, if your second Ghost Ogre in that game had been something else, you more likely would've been able to stop that player from combo-ing off as well.
I also don't recommend Crossout Designator, not even as a side deck option. It's too restrictive and bricky in the TCG, and is only good in the OCG because Maxx "C" is at 3 over there and is run in the vast majority of that format's decks due to being so powerful.

[url:20cco2fo]https://www.duelingbook.com/replay?id=38029621[/url:20cco2fo]
In this replay, galzo misplayed and cheated (or at least attempted to) multiple times. He puts up an omni-negate by setting up Wandering Gryphon Rider + the Adventurer Token, but then wastes that token on a Link Spider thus losing his omni-negate and being stuck with a now-useless 2800-DEF vanilla. He adds a monster off of Fateful Adventure but doesn't ditch a card in his hand afterwards, forcing you to remind him to. He then attempts to special summon after already using Predaplant Verte Anaconda's effect to copy Branded Fusion's effect, forcing you to remind him of that as well. In game 2 he actually gets away, this time, with not ditching a card after searching a monster with Fateful Adventure. You, Sound4, misplay as well, wasting a precious Nibiru to get rid of only 1 monster instead of using it on the Predaplant Verte Anaconda and Wandering Gryphon Rider.

Misplays and deck-building choices aside, Renji Asuka's probably right about Unchained being bad. The 2 things this archetype struggles with the most, at least from what I've seen in these replays of yours, are generating card advantage to outgrind opponents (as most of the plays it can make keep making you go +0 or -1 in card advantage), and ending on more than just 1 disruption (as the best boards I saw you assemble were setting a trap and either a monster or another trap, then passing, or, if you were lucky enough, barely managing to get out Unchained Soul of Rage before setting a trap and then passing).
Too many of Unchained's cards are -1s in card advantage, or are bricky and require other specific cards in hand/field to work, and have hardly anything to compensate for these 2 downsides. Abominable Uncahined Soul requires you to lose a card to special summon from the hand then lose another card on top of that just to destroy 1 opponent's card. That's a -1 in card advantage. Unchained Soul of Disaster has no reliable way of getting itself out so it's in most cases gonna be a dead card when you draw it. Unchained Twins - Aruha, and Unchained Twins - Rakea, are also each -1s in card advantage, as you have to first lose a card to special summon either of those monsters, then have whichever you summon be destroyed itself just so you can special summon an Unchained monster from the deck. The only main deck Unchained card that's actually a +1 in card advantage would be the continuous spell, but that requires you to link summon first and does nothing on it's own.
The Unchained archetype's spells/traps want to be face-up and face-down at the same time, further hindering the archetype. It's continuous spell, for example, wants to be face-up so it can activate it's destroying effect, but at the same time wants to remain face-down so it can be destroyed to trigger it's special summoning effect.

Compare that to Geist: Meluseek is a +1 most of the time, Multifaker is a +1 that synergizes with Silquitous in multiple ways, Marionetter is a +1 that gets you to a Reborn or a negate. Hextia is a negate that also searches like Meluseek. Spoofing allows you to replace any Altergeist with a better one each turn AND synergizes with Manifestation and Multifaker. This is what a good control archtype does.

[quote="Sound4":1bi2flkl][quote="Renji Asuka":1bi2flkl][quote="Sound4":1bi2flkl]
Remember when I said that the DB shuffling system was not good? After that I changed my deck completely and didn't play on rated for a while to test out what goes well in the Deck and make it more consistent. Plus yes I can climb in ranked if I played against better deck as that is when I have the most fun. That duel against the Prank Kid ayer was really fun as he was playing a meta deck and we were competing.[/quote:1bi2flkl]
If you played against better decks, you wouldn't climb with Unchained LMAO[/quote:1bi2flkl]
But I could and I have on Dueling nexus.[/quote:1bi2flkl]
With the screenshots being shown as proof, you cannot climb in DB it seems. I guess players on DB are far better than players on Nexus

Honestly Sound4, I won't tell you to not play Unchained, anyone can play whatever archetype they like. But I'd say, don't act as if your deck is better than what it actually is. Look at it from a more realistic view point. Then you'd see all the problems it has.

[quote="Christen57":a8uhsblm][quote="Sound4":a8uhsblm][quote="greg503":a8uhsblm]

Again, nice record[/quote:a8uhsblm]
It would actually be helpful to you if you watched the replays. Nice out of context screenshot.[/quote:a8uhsblm]

I'll watch them, starting with your duel against IHAVEMOUSTACHE. [url:a8uhsblm]https://www.duelingbook.com/replay?id=38292678[/url:a8uhsblm]
This replay ends with you randomly quitting for some reason after using Triple Tactics Talent. Speaking of that card, I'm not sure if running even 1, let alone 2, copies of it is a good idea. It being hard once per turn makes it especially awful, as you now want to run 3 copies to ensure you see it often, but at the same time don't want to run 3 because one of them becomes a dead card if you open up with 2, and it's not a starter either, so you wouldn't want to run multiple copies of that for that reason either. It may be help you against hand traps, but I'd rather play more extenders that let you play through hand traps (such as Monster Reborn).

[url:a8uhsblm]https://www.duelingbook.com/replay?id=38270003[/url:a8uhsblm]
In this replay, you lose to ThePendulumGOD because you keep blowing your own field up with Torrential Tribute until you run completely out of cards while they still have cards.

[url:a8uhsblm]https://www.duelingbook.com/replay?id=38270263[/url:a8uhsblm]
In this replay, you quit before the duel even starts, giving Malakai10 free rating/exp which is probably boosting.

[url:a8uhsblm]https://www.duelingbook.com/replay?id=38264417[/url:a8uhsblm]
This duel of yours against palameda is why I dislike running hand traps so much unless they actually synergize with the deck in question. I prefer to instead play cards (such as The Winged Dragon of Ra - Sphere Mode) that can actually break boards instead of just monsters with hand effects that may or may not slow down the opponent as they assemble said boards.

[url:a8uhsblm]https://www.duelingbook.com/replay?id=38269892[/url:a8uhsblm]
Now, I already told Lil Oldman this, but I'll tell you as well. It's not a good idea to play more than 1 copy of a hand trap that's hard once per turn. In this case, since you ended up drawing a total of 2 Ash Blossoms, you could only activate 1 while the other remained a dead card in your hand throughout the opponent's turn. Replace 1 of those Ash Blossoms with another hand trap that either doesn't have a hard once per turn or is one you're not already running. It's better to draw 2 different hand traps that can each be used in the same turn than to draw 2 copies of the same hard-once-per-turn hand trap only able to use 1 of them that turn. If that second Ash Blossom in your hand had been a different hand trap, you may have been able to stop Kongziii from combo-ing off. Similarly, in your previous duel with ThePendulumGOD, if your second Ghost Ogre in that game had been something else, you more likely would've been able to stop that player from combo-ing off as well.
I also don't recommend Crossout Designator, not even as a side deck option. It's too restrictive and bricky in the TCG, and is only good in the OCG because Maxx "C" is at 3 over there and is run in the vast majority of that format's decks due to being so powerful.

[url:a8uhsblm]https://www.duelingbook.com/replay?id=38029621[/url:a8uhsblm]
In this replay, galzo misplayed and cheated (or at least attempted to) multiple times. He puts up an omni-negate by setting up Wandering Gryphon Rider + the Adventurer Token, but then wastes that token on a Link Spider thus losing his omni-negate and being stuck with a now-useless 2800-DEF vanilla. He adds a monster off of Fateful Adventure but doesn't ditch a card in his hand afterwards, forcing you to remind him to. He then attempts to special summon after already using Predaplant Verte Anaconda's effect to copy Branded Fusion's effect, forcing you to remind him of that as well. In game 2 he actually gets away, this time, with not ditching a card after searching a monster with Fateful Adventure. You, Sound4, misplay as well, wasting a precious Nibiru to get rid of only 1 monster instead of using it on the Predaplant Verte Anaconda and Wandering Gryphon Rider.

Misplays and deck-building choices aside, Renji Asuka's probably right about Unchained being bad. The 2 things this archetype struggles with the most, at least from what I've seen in these replays of yours, are generating card advantage to outgrind opponents (as most of the plays it can make keep making you go +0 or -1 in card advantage), and ending on more than just 1 disruption (as the best boards I saw you assemble were setting a trap and either a monster or another trap, then passing, or, if you were lucky enough, barely managing to get out Unchained Soul of Rage before setting a trap and then passing).
Too many of Unchained's cards are -1s in card advantage, or are bricky and require other specific cards in hand/field to work, and have hardly anything to compensate for these 2 downsides. Abominable Uncahined Soul requires you to lose a card to special summon from the hand then lose another card on top of that just to destroy 1 opponent's card. That's a -1 in card advantage. Unchained Soul of Disaster has no reliable way of getting itself out so it's in most cases gonna be a dead card when you draw it. Unchained Twins - Aruha, and Unchained Twins - Rakea, are also each -1s in card advantage, as you have to first lose a card to special summon either of those monsters, then have whichever you summon be destroyed itself just so you can special summon an Unchained monster from the deck. The only main deck Unchained card that's actually a +1 in card advantage would be the continuous spell, but that requires you to link summon first and does nothing on it's own.
The Unchained archetype's spells/traps want to be face-up and face-down at the same time, further hindering the archetype. It's continuous spell, for example, wants to be face-up so it can activate it's destroying effect, but at the same time wants to remain face-down so it can be destroyed to trigger it's special summoning effect.[/quote:a8uhsblm]
From this reply it is pretty simple that you know nothing about this format. I won't go through every replay since what you wrote is too long.

The first replay I was getting bored and wanted a competitive match I could have easily won but I wanted a fun and competitive match which wasn't what I found.

The Floowandereeze game I played bad in I will admit that but there isn't much I could do since if I am not mistaken he was about to setip a negation for my torrential and in game 2 he used called by on lancea. Pretty much from there it was over but that game was for testing.

This post proves that you don't know much about this format. People are playing a lot of handraps to stop things like Artifact scythe or stopping the opponent on making 4+ negation board. Plus I play TTT at 3 since it us an an amazing card for this format since people are playing a lot of handraps. Again read the replies. Unchained is a control deck not a combo deck and the continuous spell you don't use at all since it isn't good and situational. Plus disaster you play at 1 and Abominable Unchained soul you can play at 2 or 3. Unchained is actually really consistent as it is 2 card combos end on a link with backrow and handraps which is really good if the pilot know how to play the Deck correctly.

The duel against Palameda was also pretty close as Dharc and super poly really made it difficult to make and come back and he top decked a kaiju.

[quote="Renji Asuka":2a2iclt1][quote="Sound4":2a2iclt1][quote="Renji Asuka":2a2iclt1]
If you played against better decks, you wouldn't climb with Unchained LMAO[/quote:2a2iclt1]
But I could and I have on Dueling nexus.[/quote:2a2iclt1]
With the screenshots being shown as proof, you cannot climb in DB it seems. I guess players on DB are far better than players on Nexus [/quote:2a2iclt1]
Watch the replays since context matters. Greg503 obviously showed an out of context screenshot to attempt to make me look bad.

[quote="troglyte":uk3nvqqx]I don't know how db's rated pool works.

Regardless, the problem appears to be that you just want to skip straight to the top tier without working for it, which is just lazy and entitled behavior. If you're not able or willing (there is evidence of both) to work through the low/mid-tier, then you certainly don't deserve to play in the top tier.[/quote:uk3nvqqx]
So you are back after you embarrassed yourself in the other threads but that us besides the point. Watch the replay since Greg503 showed an out of context screenshot to attempt to make me look bad. Plus it pretty much shows that you have not read anything before you posted this. I just said before I have climbed on ranked on nexus so no I am not being "lazy". Read through the replayed first since it is clear you haven't.

[quote="Sound4":34gvv165][quote="troglyte":34gvv165]I don't know how db's rated pool works.

Regardless, the problem appears to be that you just want to skip straight to the top tier without working for it, which is just lazy and entitled behavior. If you're not able or willing (there is evidence of both) to work through the low/mid-tier, then you certainly don't deserve to play in the top tier.[/quote:34gvv165]
So you are back after you embarrassed yourself in the other threads but that us besides the point. Watch the replay since Greg503 showed an out of context screenshot to attempt to make me look bad. Plus it pretty much shows that you have not read anything before you posted this. I just said before I have climbed on ranked on nexus so no I am not being "lazy". Read through the replayed first since it is clear you haven't.[/quote:34gvv165]
Oh I find the loss streak amusing, I imagine that's why your win rate in the past games are less than 50%. By the way, real grinders don't care what they're up against, they take whatever wins they can get. If you're a real grinder and it would be such an "easy win" for you, then you would have won instead of quit. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, IRL needs came up at the worst possible times for your rating

[quote="greg503":gmzob5uj]Compare that to Geist: Meluseek is a +1 most of the time, Multifaker is a +1 that synergizes with Silquitous in multiple ways, Marionetter is a +1 that gets you to a Reborn or a negate. Hextia is a negate that also searches like Meluseek. Spoofing allows you to replace any Altergeist with a better one each turn AND synergizes with Manifestation and Multifaker. This is what a good control archtype does.[/quote:gmzob5uj]
https://www.duelingbook.com/replay?id=815175-37947026
A replay of me beating Altergeist easily. Plus the Altergeist profile you showed iis not good you don't use the Adventure Token Engine in an Altergeist deck it doesn't work. Altergeist isn't Cyberse Eldlich since Cyberse Eldlich is simply better. The adventure token engine also stop you normal summon to add an Altergeist card which cannot do anymore because of rite.

[quote="greg503":3nbui79d][quote="Sound4":3nbui79d][quote="troglyte":3nbui79d]I don't know how db's rated pool works.

Regardless, the problem appears to be that you just want to skip straight to the top tier without working for it, which is just lazy and entitled behavior. If you're not able or willing (there is evidence of both) to work through the low/mid-tier, then you certainly don't deserve to play in the top tier.[/quote:3nbui79d]
So you are back after you embarrassed yourself in the other threads but that us besides the point. Watch the replay since Greg503 showed an out of context screenshot to attempt to make me look bad. Plus it pretty much shows that you have not read anything before you posted this. I just said before I have climbed on ranked on nexus so no I am not being "lazy". Read through the replayed first since it is clear you haven't.[/quote:3nbui79d]
Oh I find the loss streak amusing, I imagine that's why your win rate in the past games are less than 50%. By the way, real grinders don't care what they're up against, they take whatever wins they can get. If you're a real grinder and it would be such an "easy win" for you, then you would have won instead of quit. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, IRL needs came up at the worst possible times for your rating [/quote:3nbui79d]
Watch the replays and watch what happened since you clearly have not.

[quote="Sound4":3206ajsk][quote="greg503":3206ajsk]Compare that to Geist: Meluseek is a +1 most of the time, Multifaker is a +1 that synergizes with Silquitous in multiple ways, Marionetter is a +1 that gets you to a Reborn or a negate. Hextia is a negate that also searches like Meluseek. Spoofing allows you to replace any Altergeist with a better one each turn AND synergizes with Manifestation and Multifaker. This is what a good control archtype does.[/quote:3206ajsk]
https://www.duelingbook.com/replay?id=815175-37947026
A replay of me beating Altergeist easily. Plus the Altergeist profile you showed iis not good you don't use the Adventure Token Engine in an Altergeist deck it doesn't work. Altergeist isn't Cyberse Eldlich since Cyberse Eldlich is simply better. The adventure token engine also stop you normal summon to add an Altergeist card which cannot do anymore because of rite.[/quote:3206ajsk]
You won game 1 because he bricked with cards I don't run, game 2 you tried to Nib in End Phase, lmao. Game 3 was just bad siding, Evenly is bad against a deck that goes -. I with my deck, would win, if I played DB

[quote="Sound4":kvoa7a3j][quote="Renji Asuka":kvoa7a3j][quote="Sound4":kvoa7a3j]
But I could and I have on Dueling nexus.[/quote:kvoa7a3j]
With the screenshots being shown as proof, you cannot climb in DB it seems. I guess players on DB are far better than players on Nexus [/quote:kvoa7a3j]
Watch the replays since context matters. Greg503 obviously showed an out of context screenshot to attempt to make me look bad.[/quote:kvoa7a3j]
And yet you still lost those games.

It's almost like, you don't know yugioh very well.

[quote="Sound4":ja045fk6][quote="troglyte":ja045fk6]I don't know how db's rated pool works.

Regardless, the problem appears to be that you just want to skip straight to the top tier without working for it, which is just lazy and entitled behavior. If you're not able or willing (there is evidence of both) to work through the low/mid-tier, then you certainly don't deserve to play in the top tier.[/quote:ja045fk6]
So you are back after you embarrassed yourself in the other threads but that us besides the point. Watch the replay since Greg503 showed an out of context screenshot to attempt to make me look bad. Plus it pretty much shows that you have not read anything before you posted this. I just said before I have climbed on ranked on nexus so no I am not being "lazy". Read through the replayed first since it is clear you haven't.[/quote:ja045fk6]
Are you referring to the time I forced you to admit that you would never enforce 'silence is consent' upon yourself, thus destroying your entire argument and making you look like a complete embarrassment? Because that was hilarious.

Also, the 'out of context' argument only works if you are willing to provide more evidence, which you have failed to do so. In fact, you've consistently refused to provide context yourself. OTHER PEOPLE such as Greg and Christen have been providing additional context because you can't bring yourself to do it yourself beyond 1 or 2 replays. And after all that, all you say is "out of context" like it's a magic spell without actually adding anything relevant. I've noticed this trend in other threads as well. Yes, you are lazy.

[quote="Sound4":lsru0xzj][quote="Christen57":lsru0xzj][quote="Sound4":lsru0xzj]
It would actually be helpful to you if you watched the replays. Nice out of context screenshot.[/quote:lsru0xzj]

I'll watch them, starting with your duel against IHAVEMOUSTACHE. [url:lsru0xzj]https://www.duelingbook.com/replay?id=38292678[/url:lsru0xzj]
This replay ends with you randomly quitting for some reason after using Triple Tactics Talent. Speaking of that card, I'm not sure if running even 1, let alone 2, copies of it is a good idea. It being hard once per turn makes it especially awful, as you now want to run 3 copies to ensure you see it often, but at the same time don't want to run 3 because one of them becomes a dead card if you open up with 2, and it's not a starter either, so you wouldn't want to run multiple copies of that for that reason either. It may be help you against hand traps, but I'd rather play more extenders that let you play through hand traps (such as Monster Reborn).

[url:lsru0xzj]https://www.duelingbook.com/replay?id=38270003[/url:lsru0xzj]
In this replay, you lose to ThePendulumGOD because you keep blowing your own field up with Torrential Tribute until you run completely out of cards while they still have cards.

[url:lsru0xzj]https://www.duelingbook.com/replay?id=38270263[/url:lsru0xzj]
In this replay, you quit before the duel even starts, giving Malakai10 free rating/exp which is probably boosting.

[url:lsru0xzj]https://www.duelingbook.com/replay?id=38264417[/url:lsru0xzj]
This duel of yours against palameda is why I dislike running hand traps so much unless they actually synergize with the deck in question. I prefer to instead play cards (such as The Winged Dragon of Ra - Sphere Mode) that can actually break boards instead of just monsters with hand effects that may or may not slow down the opponent as they assemble said boards.

[url:lsru0xzj]https://www.duelingbook.com/replay?id=38269892[/url:lsru0xzj]
Now, I already told Lil Oldman this, but I'll tell you as well. It's not a good idea to play more than 1 copy of a hand trap that's hard once per turn. In this case, since you ended up drawing a total of 2 Ash Blossoms, you could only activate 1 while the other remained a dead card in your hand throughout the opponent's turn. Replace 1 of those Ash Blossoms with another hand trap that either doesn't have a hard once per turn or is one you're not already running. It's better to draw 2 different hand traps that can each be used in the same turn than to draw 2 copies of the same hard-once-per-turn hand trap only able to use 1 of them that turn. If that second Ash Blossom in your hand had been a different hand trap, you may have been able to stop Kongziii from combo-ing off. Similarly, in your previous duel with ThePendulumGOD, if your second Ghost Ogre in that game had been something else, you more likely would've been able to stop that player from combo-ing off as well.
I also don't recommend Crossout Designator, not even as a side deck option. It's too restrictive and bricky in the TCG, and is only good in the OCG because Maxx "C" is at 3 over there and is run in the vast majority of that format's decks due to being so powerful.

[url:lsru0xzj]https://www.duelingbook.com/replay?id=38029621[/url:lsru0xzj]
In this replay, galzo misplayed and cheated (or at least attempted to) multiple times. He puts up an omni-negate by setting up Wandering Gryphon Rider + the Adventurer Token, but then wastes that token on a Link Spider thus losing his omni-negate and being stuck with a now-useless 2800-DEF vanilla. He adds a monster off of Fateful Adventure but doesn't ditch a card in his hand afterwards, forcing you to remind him to. He then attempts to special summon after already using Predaplant Verte Anaconda's effect to copy Branded Fusion's effect, forcing you to remind him of that as well. In game 2 he actually gets away, this time, with not ditching a card after searching a monster with Fateful Adventure. You, Sound4, misplay as well, wasting a precious Nibiru to get rid of only 1 monster instead of using it on the Predaplant Verte Anaconda and Wandering Gryphon Rider.

Misplays and deck-building choices aside, Renji Asuka's probably right about Unchained being bad. The 2 things this archetype struggles with the most, at least from what I've seen in these replays of yours, are generating card advantage to outgrind opponents (as most of the plays it can make keep making you go +0 or -1 in card advantage), and ending on more than just 1 disruption (as the best boards I saw you assemble were setting a trap and either a monster or another trap, then passing, or, if you were lucky enough, barely managing to get out Unchained Soul of Rage before setting a trap and then passing).
Too many of Unchained's cards are -1s in card advantage, or are bricky and require other specific cards in hand/field to work, and have hardly anything to compensate for these 2 downsides. Abominable Uncahined Soul requires you to lose a card to special summon from the hand then lose another card on top of that just to destroy 1 opponent's card. That's a -1 in card advantage. Unchained Soul of Disaster has no reliable way of getting itself out so it's in most cases gonna be a dead card when you draw it. Unchained Twins - Aruha, and Unchained Twins - Rakea, are also each -1s in card advantage, as you have to first lose a card to special summon either of those monsters, then have whichever you summon be destroyed itself just so you can special summon an Unchained monster from the deck. The only main deck Unchained card that's actually a +1 in card advantage would be the continuous spell, but that requires you to link summon first and does nothing on it's own.
The Unchained archetype's spells/traps want to be face-up and face-down at the same time, further hindering the archetype. It's continuous spell, for example, wants to be face-up so it can activate it's destroying effect, but at the same time wants to remain face-down so it can be destroyed to trigger it's special summoning effect.[/quote:lsru0xzj]
I won't go through every replay since what you wrote is too long.[/quote:lsru0xzj]

Why were you telling us to watch your replays then if you aren't willing to go through them with us?

The first replay I was getting bored and wanted a competitive match I could have easily won but I wanted a fun and competitive match which wasn't what I found.

In that case, you may be better off going to Advanced Unrated then, and putting in your duel note "competitive decks only" or something.

This post proves that you don't know much about this format.

I know enough.

People are playing a lot of handraps to stop things like Artifact scythe or stopping the opponent on making 4+ negation board.

That's fine. You just don't need to (and shouldn't) run multiple copies of the same hard-once-per-turn hand trap. Ash Blossom, Ghost Ogre, Ghost Mourner, Nibiru, Artifact Lancea, and Ghost Belle should each be at no more than 1 copy. The hand traps you should be running 3 copies of, if you want to run 3 copies of specific hand traps, are Effect Veiler, D.D. Crow, Skull Meister, Typhoon, Infinite Impermanence, and so on.

Also, hand traps aren't the only way to "stop the opponent from making 4+ negation boards". In some decks, it may be better to run cards that can actually take apart such boards, such as Lava Golem and The Winged Dragon of Ra - Sphere Mode. In other decks, it may be better to run Dark Ruler No More or Forbidden Droplet for dealing with such boards.
Have you considered any of these other options aside from just "hand traps"?

Plus I play TTT at 3 since it us an an amazing card for this format since people are playing a lot of handraps.

The card is still too restrictive most of the time to be worth running at even 2, let alone 3. Cards like Monster Reborn help you play through hand traps, but are also good even if the opponent isn't playing any hand traps as you can also just activate it to extend your own plays regardless. Called by the Grave helps shield you against hand traps that put themselves in the grave to activate but is also good even against monsters with grave effects in general, as you can also set it and use it in the opponent's turn to stop, for example, Destroyer Phoenix Enforcer, which is also a card many people are running. These 2 spells help you against hand traps but are also good outside of situations involving hand traps. Triple Tactics Talent is too specific, it's hard once per turn restriction is too much, and it doesn't do enough to justify such a restriction, or at least doesn't seem to synergize well enough with Unchained.

Unchained is a control deck not a combo deck and the continuous spell you don't use at all since it isn't good and situational.

If your deck is a control deck then 1) You should be playing powerful control floodgates that work alongside your archetype. Eldlich plays Skill Drain, Altergeist plays Secret Village of the Spellcasters, Shaddoll plays El Shaddoll Winda, Sky Striker plays Mystic Mine, Floowandereeze plays both Floowandereeze & Empen and Barrier Statue of the Stormwinds, Krawler plays both Rivalry of Warlords and Gozen Match, and so on. Since Unchained is, in this case, a Fiend-focused deck, it may help to play (or at least side deck) Rivalry of Warlords and Anti-Spell Fragrance.
2) Hand traps shouldn't hurt your deck much if it's meant to be a control deck. Hand traps are meant to hurt, the most, combo decks.

Watch the replays and watch what happened since you clearly have not.

What else is Greg503 missing from those replays I commented on that I didn't already comment on?

[quote="Christen57":dghstgc1]Krawler plays both Rivalry of Warlords and Gozen Match, and so on.[/quote:dghstgc1]
Wait what? I never thought of playing Gozen or Rivalry

[quote="Lil Oldman":3awyuyg8][quote="Christen57":3awyuyg8]Krawler plays both Rivalry of Warlords and Gozen Match, and so on.[/quote:3awyuyg8]
Wait what? I never thought of playing Gozen or Rivalry[/quote:3awyuyg8]

I experimented with the cards and they're okay in Krawlers since Krawlers are all EARTH Insect, but they can backfire since they also restrict you from non-EARTH/non-Insect monsters.

[quote="Christen57":34rrqe6j][quote="Sound4":34rrqe6j][quote="Christen57":34rrqe6j]

I'll watch them, starting with your duel against IHAVEMOUSTACHE. [url:34rrqe6j]https://www.duelingbook.com/replay?id=38292678[/url:34rrqe6j]
This replay ends with you randomly quitting for some reason after using Triple Tactics Talent. Speaking of that card, I'm not sure if running even 1, let alone 2, copies of it is a good idea. It being hard once per turn makes it especially awful, as you now want to run 3 copies to ensure you see it often, but at the same time don't want to run 3 because one of them becomes a dead card if you open up with 2, and it's not a starter either, so you wouldn't want to run multiple copies of that for that reason either. It may be help you against hand traps, but I'd rather play more extenders that let you play through hand traps (such as Monster Reborn).

[url:34rrqe6j]https://www.duelingbook.com/replay?id=38270003[/url:34rrqe6j]
In this replay, you lose to ThePendulumGOD because you keep blowing your own field up with Torrential Tribute until you run completely out of cards while they still have cards.

[url:34rrqe6j]https://www.duelingbook.com/replay?id=38270263[/url:34rrqe6j]
In this replay, you quit before the duel even starts, giving Malakai10 free rating/exp which is probably boosting.

[url:34rrqe6j]https://www.duelingbook.com/replay?id=38264417[/url:34rrqe6j]
This duel of yours against palameda is why I dislike running hand traps so much unless they actually synergize with the deck in question. I prefer to instead play cards (such as The Winged Dragon of Ra - Sphere Mode) that can actually break boards instead of just monsters with hand effects that may or may not slow down the opponent as they assemble said boards.

[url:34rrqe6j]https://www.duelingbook.com/replay?id=38269892[/url:34rrqe6j]
Now, I already told Lil Oldman this, but I'll tell you as well. It's not a good idea to play more than 1 copy of a hand trap that's hard once per turn. In this case, since you ended up drawing a total of 2 Ash Blossoms, you could only activate 1 while the other remained a dead card in your hand throughout the opponent's turn. Replace 1 of those Ash Blossoms with another hand trap that either doesn't have a hard once per turn or is one you're not already running. It's better to draw 2 different hand traps that can each be used in the same turn than to draw 2 copies of the same hard-once-per-turn hand trap only able to use 1 of them that turn. If that second Ash Blossom in your hand had been a different hand trap, you may have been able to stop Kongziii from combo-ing off. Similarly, in your previous duel with ThePendulumGOD, if your second Ghost Ogre in that game had been something else, you more likely would've been able to stop that player from combo-ing off as well.
I also don't recommend Crossout Designator, not even as a side deck option. It's too restrictive and bricky in the TCG, and is only good in the OCG because Maxx "C" is at 3 over there and is run in the vast majority of that format's decks due to being so powerful.

[url:34rrqe6j]https://www.duelingbook.com/replay?id=38029621[/url:34rrqe6j]
In this replay, galzo misplayed and cheated (or at least attempted to) multiple times. He puts up an omni-negate by setting up Wandering Gryphon Rider + the Adventurer Token, but then wastes that token on a Link Spider thus losing his omni-negate and being stuck with a now-useless 2800-DEF vanilla. He adds a monster off of Fateful Adventure but doesn't ditch a card in his hand afterwards, forcing you to remind him to. He then attempts to special summon after already using Predaplant Verte Anaconda's effect to copy Branded Fusion's effect, forcing you to remind him of that as well. In game 2 he actually gets away, this time, with not ditching a card after searching a monster with Fateful Adventure. You, Sound4, misplay as well, wasting a precious Nibiru to get rid of only 1 monster instead of using it on the Predaplant Verte Anaconda and Wandering Gryphon Rider.

Misplays and deck-building choices aside, Renji Asuka's probably right about Unchained being bad. The 2 things this archetype struggles with the most, at least from what I've seen in these replays of yours, are generating card advantage to outgrind opponents (as most of the plays it can make keep making you go +0 or -1 in card advantage), and ending on more than just 1 disruption (as the best boards I saw you assemble were setting a trap and either a monster or another trap, then passing, or, if you were lucky enough, barely managing to get out Unchained Soul of Rage before setting a trap and then passing).
Too many of Unchained's cards are -1s in card advantage, or are bricky and require other specific cards in hand/field to work, and have hardly anything to compensate for these 2 downsides. Abominable Uncahined Soul requires you to lose a card to special summon from the hand then lose another card on top of that just to destroy 1 opponent's card. That's a -1 in card advantage. Unchained Soul of Disaster has no reliable way of getting itself out so it's in most cases gonna be a dead card when you draw it. Unchained Twins - Aruha, and Unchained Twins - Rakea, are also each -1s in card advantage, as you have to first lose a card to special summon either of those monsters, then have whichever you summon be destroyed itself just so you can special summon an Unchained monster from the deck. The only main deck Unchained card that's actually a +1 in card advantage would be the continuous spell, but that requires you to link summon first and does nothing on it's own.
The Unchained archetype's spells/traps want to be face-up and face-down at the same time, further hindering the archetype. It's continuous spell, for example, wants to be face-up so it can activate it's destroying effect, but at the same time wants to remain face-down so it can be destroyed to trigger it's special summoning effect.[/quote:34rrqe6j]
I won't go through every replay since what you wrote is too long.[/quote:34rrqe6j]

Why were you telling us to watch your replays then if you aren't willing to go through them with us?

The first replay I was getting bored and wanted a competitive match I could have easily won but I wanted a fun and competitive match which wasn't what I found.

In that case, you may be better off going to Advanced Unrated then, and putting in your duel note "competitive decks only" or something.

This post proves that you don't know much about this format.

I know enough.

People are playing a lot of handraps to stop things like Artifact scythe or stopping the opponent on making 4+ negation board.

That's fine. You just don't need to (and shouldn't) run multiple copies of the same hard-once-per-turn hand trap. Ash Blossom, Ghost Ogre, Ghost Mourner, Nibiru, Artifact Lancea, and Ghost Belle should each be at no more than 1 copy. The hand traps you should be running 3 copies of, if you want to run 3 copies of specific hand traps, are Effect Veiler, D.D. Crow, Skull Meister, Typhoon, Infinite Impermanence, and so on.

Also, hand traps aren't the only way to "stop the opponent from making 4+ negation boards". In some decks, it may be better to run cards that can actually take apart such boards, such as Lava Golem and The Winged Dragon of Ra - Sphere Mode. In other decks, it may be better to run Dark Ruler No More or Forbidden Droplet for dealing with such boards.
Have you considered any of these other options aside from just "hand traps"?

Plus I play TTT at 3 since it us an an amazing card for this format since people are playing a lot of handraps.

The card is still too restrictive most of the time to be worth running at even 2, let alone 3. Cards like Monster Reborn help you play through hand traps, but are also good even if the opponent isn't playing any hand traps as you can also just activate it to extend your own plays regardless. Called by the Grave helps shield you against hand traps that put themselves in the grave to activate but is also good even against monsters with grave effects in general, as you can also set it and use it in the opponent's turn to stop, for example, Destroyer Phoenix Enforcer, which is also a card many people are running. These 2 spells help you against hand traps but are also good outside of situations involving hand traps. Triple Tactics Talent is too specific, it's hard once per turn restriction is too much, and it doesn't do enough to justify such a restriction, or at least doesn't seem to synergize well enough with Unchained.

Unchained is a control deck not a combo deck and the continuous spell you don't use at all since it isn't good and situational.

If your deck is a control deck then 1) You should be playing powerful control floodgates that work alongside your archetype. Eldlich plays Skill Drain, Altergeist plays Secret Village of the Spellcasters, Shaddoll plays El Shaddoll Winda, Sky Striker plays Mystic Mine, Floowandereeze plays both Floowandereeze & Empen and Barrier Statue of the Stormwinds, Krawler plays both Rivalry of Warlords and Gozen Match, and so on. Since Unchained is, in this case, a Fiend-focused deck, it may help to play (or at least side deck) Rivalry of Warlords and Anti-Spell Fragrance.
2) Hand traps shouldn't hurt your deck much if it's meant to be a control deck. Hand traps are meant to hurt, the most, combo decks.

Watch the replays and watch what happened since you clearly have not.

What else is Greg503 missing from those replays I commented on that I didn't already comment on?[/quote:34rrqe6j]
I said watch the replays and I think I replied to the most important ones.

Plus cards like forbidden droplet are good but not like the format in which Swordsoul and Lyrilusc Tri Brigade were the best decks. Dark ruler no more isn't a quick play spell and ways to get around it. Droplet is good against deck like prank kids and DDD but there are many times in which the card isn't good. Prank kids is the main reason why it is still played. Plus for the other cards you mentioned not everyone has the side space to play those cards.

If you play only one of a hand trap which is once per turn then it is not worth putting in. Ash is a generic card that that stops things like fusion destiny, branded fusion and red eyes fusion important cards that you need ash for.

The Deck can play floodgates but it depends on which cards you are playing as you can play different combinations. What Unchained does is to end on a link 2 rage with some backrow and handraps. This us really good as decks with the Adventure Token Engine and they actually Rite of aramesir you can use rage to link off with the token making the adventure token engine useless at that point. Then you still have other interruption. The Deck may not seem to be good but it causes trouble for a lot of people as they don't know the ins and outside which is why I can beat top decks.

Plus Greg503 hasn't answered any of my points and by his replies he hasn't watched the replays either.

[quote="greg503":1xbf5gm1][quote="Sound4":1xbf5gm1][quote="greg503":1xbf5gm1]Compare that to Geist: Meluseek is a +1 most of the time, Multifaker is a +1 that synergizes with Silquitous in multiple ways, Marionetter is a +1 that gets you to a Reborn or a negate. Hextia is a negate that also searches like Meluseek. Spoofing allows you to replace any Altergeist with a better one each turn AND synergizes with Manifestation and Multifaker. This is what a good control archtype does.[/quote:1xbf5gm1]
https://www.duelingbook.com/replay?id=815175-37947026
A replay of me beating Altergeist easily. Plus the Altergeist profile you showed iis not good you don't use the Adventure Token Engine in an Altergeist deck it doesn't work. Altergeist isn't Cyberse Eldlich since Cyberse Eldlich is simply better. The adventure token engine also stop you normal summon to add an Altergeist card which cannot do anymore because of rite.[/quote:1xbf5gm1]
You won game 1 because he bricked with cards I don't run, game 2 you tried to Nib in End Phase, lmao. Game 3 was just bad siding, Evenly is bad against a deck that goes -. I with my deck, would win, if I played DB[/quote:1xbf5gm1]
He was running floodgates like any other trap deck. Plus you didn't answer any of my points on why you're deck isn't as good as you think it is. Plus Unchained doesn't really goes -. If you use aruha to destroy an unchained S/T activates it's effect to summon Sarama from deck and then use ura effect to put the S/T and destroy Aruha. Use Aruba effect to summon abom or disaster and go into link 2 rage set some backrow and pass.

[quote="Sound4":3afxalkb][quote="greg503":3afxalkb][quote="Sound4":3afxalkb]
https://www.duelingbook.com/replay?id=815175-37947026
A replay of me beating Altergeist easily. Plus the Altergeist profile you showed iis not good you don't use the Adventure Token Engine in an Altergeist deck it doesn't work. Altergeist isn't Cyberse Eldlich since Cyberse Eldlich is simply better. The adventure token engine also stop you normal summon to add an Altergeist card which cannot do anymore because of rite.[/quote:3afxalkb]
You won game 1 because he bricked with cards I don't run, game 2 you tried to Nib in End Phase, lmao. Game 3 was just bad siding, Evenly is bad against a deck that goes -. I with my deck, would win, if I played DB[/quote:3afxalkb]
He was running floodgates like any other trap deck. Plus you didn't answer any of my points on why you're deck isn't as good as you think it is. Plus Unchained doesn't really goes -. If you use aruha to destroy an unchained S/T activates it's effect to summon Sarama from deck and then use ura effect to put the S/T and destroy Aruha. Use Aruba effect to summon abom or disaster and go into link 2 rage set some backrow and pass.[/quote:3afxalkb]
The Adventurer package ONLY stops Marrionetter and a Normal Summoned Meluseek from using its battle effect. Every other Altergiest you'll Special Summon, or not need to use it's effect the same turn as Aramesir. With Unchained, if you have the Adventurer package, you need to lead with it because the "Twins" lock you into Fiends. You won't always draw both the important Normal and Adventurer on the same hand either. I would rather have Silq than Unchained Rage because Silq affects more cards, on top of Protocol, Spoofing, and Manifestation just being better backrow than "Raigeki Break." Altergeist is even good versus torrential if you have Silq or Protocol established. Cyberse Eldlich is better than Altergiest, but it's much better than Unchained, that's not an argument. As for floodgates, Altergeist has good enough interaction to not need them, although perhaps I should add Skill Drain for the synergy

[quote="Sound4":3gln5v4k][quote="Christen57":3gln5v4k][quote="Sound4":3gln5v4k]
I won't go through every replay since what you wrote is too long.[/quote:3gln5v4k]

Why were you telling us to watch your replays then if you aren't willing to go through them with us?

The first replay I was getting bored and wanted a competitive match I could have easily won but I wanted a fun and competitive match which wasn't what I found.

In that case, you may be better off going to Advanced Unrated then, and putting in your duel note "competitive decks only" or something.

This post proves that you don't know much about this format.

I know enough.

People are playing a lot of handraps to stop things like Artifact scythe or stopping the opponent on making 4+ negation board.

That's fine. You just don't need to (and shouldn't) run multiple copies of the same hard-once-per-turn hand trap. Ash Blossom, Ghost Ogre, Ghost Mourner, Nibiru, Artifact Lancea, and Ghost Belle should each be at no more than 1 copy. The hand traps you should be running 3 copies of, if you want to run 3 copies of specific hand traps, are Effect Veiler, D.D. Crow, Skull Meister, Typhoon, Infinite Impermanence, and so on.

Also, hand traps aren't the only way to "stop the opponent from making 4+ negation boards". In some decks, it may be better to run cards that can actually take apart such boards, such as Lava Golem and The Winged Dragon of Ra - Sphere Mode. In other decks, it may be better to run Dark Ruler No More or Forbidden Droplet for dealing with such boards.
Have you considered any of these other options aside from just "hand traps"?

Plus I play TTT at 3 since it us an an amazing card for this format since people are playing a lot of handraps.

The card is still too restrictive most of the time to be worth running at even 2, let alone 3. Cards like Monster Reborn help you play through hand traps, but are also good even if the opponent isn't playing any hand traps as you can also just activate it to extend your own plays regardless. Called by the Grave helps shield you against hand traps that put themselves in the grave to activate but is also good even against monsters with grave effects in general, as you can also set it and use it in the opponent's turn to stop, for example, Destroyer Phoenix Enforcer, which is also a card many people are running. These 2 spells help you against hand traps but are also good outside of situations involving hand traps. Triple Tactics Talent is too specific, it's hard once per turn restriction is too much, and it doesn't do enough to justify such a restriction, or at least doesn't seem to synergize well enough with Unchained.

Unchained is a control deck not a combo deck and the continuous spell you don't use at all since it isn't good and situational.

If your deck is a control deck then 1) You should be playing powerful control floodgates that work alongside your archetype. Eldlich plays Skill Drain, Altergeist plays Secret Village of the Spellcasters, Shaddoll plays El Shaddoll Winda, Sky Striker plays Mystic Mine, Floowandereeze plays both Floowandereeze & Empen and Barrier Statue of the Stormwinds, Krawler plays both Rivalry of Warlords and Gozen Match, and so on. Since Unchained is, in this case, a Fiend-focused deck, it may help to play (or at least side deck) Rivalry of Warlords and Anti-Spell Fragrance.
2) Hand traps shouldn't hurt your deck much if it's meant to be a control deck. Hand traps are meant to hurt, the most, combo decks.

Watch the replays and watch what happened since you clearly have not.

What else is Greg503 missing from those replays I commented on that I didn't already comment on?[/quote:3gln5v4k]
If you play only one of a hand trap which is once per turn then it is not worth putting in.[/quote:3gln5v4k]

Not true. Some hand traps are better off being ran at 2, and others may be better off being ran at 1. The only hard-once-per-turn hand trap that has always been worth running at 3 whenever possible was Maxx "C" due to how powerful that card was.

Ash is a generic card that that stops things like fusion destiny, branded fusion and red eyes fusion important cards that you need ash for.

Dark Ruler No More, Kaijus, and Santa Claws can stop those cards too. Not just Ash Blossom. Ash Blossom being hard once per turn really hurts since, if the opponent brings out Verte Anaconda, you can Ash that, but then they just activate Fusion Destiny from the hand anyway, so now, instead of your next card being an Ash, it's better off being something that can actually deal with the Destroyer Phoenix Enforcer, or Red-Eyes Dark Dragoon, they bring out.

Another major advantage to playing Dark Ruler No More, Kaijus, Forbidden Droplet, or Santa Claws, over Ash Blossom is that, if you rely on Ash Blossom to stop the opponent from resolving the fusion spell, you need to have the Ash Blossom in your hand at the time the fusion spell's activated, but with a Kaiju, even if you don't have it in your hand at that moment, as long as you at least end up drawing it next turn, you can out the fusion monster, whereas if you don't have Ash the moment the fusion spell's activated but instead just draw it in your next turn, it's too late at that point as the fusion has already come out.

On top of that, what if they have both Branded Fusion and Fusion Destiny, or a way to make Verte but also have Fusion Destiny in hand as a backup? If you Ash 1 of those cards they'll just fall back on the other one, which did happen in quite a few of those replays of yours. Lava Golem or Dark Ruler No More would be more suitable in those kinds of situations.

If you want to insist on playing 3 Ash Blossom without considering any of these other cards I listed, go ahead. It's your deck at the end of the day. I'm just telling you that the card has it's pros and cons and that I strongly believe it's cons outweigh the pros, at least in most decks.

The Deck can play floodgates but it depends on which cards you are playing as you can play different combinations.

So figure out which combinations are the best for your deck.

What Unchained does is to end on a link 2 rage with some backrow and handraps. This us really good as decks with the Adventure Token Engine and they actually Rite of aramesir you can use rage to link off with the token making the adventure token engine useless at that point.

This would be a good strategy if it wasn't hindered by Rage's restrictions, but the card requires at least 1 of it's link materials to be specifically an Unchained Soul monster instead of just any Unchained monster so it can't easily be made with any of the Unchained Twins, and it's effect to link with the opponent's monster only works in the opponent's turn instead of also your own turn, further hurting the card's utility.

Then you still have other interruption. The Deck may not seem to be good but it causes trouble for a lot of people as they don't know the ins and outside which is why I can beat top decks.

If the only way for you to be able to beat top decks with Unchained is for people to "not know the ins and outs" of it, that makes Unchained bad.

Plus Greg503 hasn't answered any of my points

You didn't answer my point about how Unchained struggles mostly with getting out Rage and how too many of Unchained's cards are +0 or -1 in card advantage while too little of their cards are actually +1 in card advantage.

and by his replies he hasn't watched the replays either.

Why do you need specifically him to also watch your replays when I already watched them so he wouldn't have to?

[quote="Christen57":ytrjofyn]Ash Blossom being hard once per turn really hurts since, if the opponent brings out Verte Anaconda, you can Ash that, but then they just activate Fusion Destiny from the hand anyway[/quote:ytrjofyn]
Sorry Ash Verte what?

[quote="greg503":3fi0hdn5][quote="Christen57":3fi0hdn5]Ash Blossom being hard once per turn really hurts since, if the opponent brings out Verte Anaconda, you can Ash that, but then they just activate Fusion Destiny from the hand anyway[/quote:3fi0hdn5]
Sorry Ash Verte what?[/quote:3fi0hdn5]

Sorry I forgot you can't Ash a Verte. What I meant to say was, you can hand trap 1 card but oftentimes they'll have another card to extend their play.

[quote="Christen57":he28irpy][quote="Sound4":he28irpy][quote="Christen57":he28irpy]

Why were you telling us to watch your replays then if you aren't willing to go through them with us?



In that case, you may be better off going to Advanced Unrated then, and putting in your duel note "competitive decks only" or something.



I know enough.



That's fine. You just don't need to (and shouldn't) run multiple copies of the same hard-once-per-turn hand trap. Ash Blossom, Ghost Ogre, Ghost Mourner, Nibiru, Artifact Lancea, and Ghost Belle should each be at no more than 1 copy. The hand traps you should be running 3 copies of, if you want to run 3 copies of specific hand traps, are Effect Veiler, D.D. Crow, Skull Meister, Typhoon, Infinite Impermanence, and so on.

Also, hand traps aren't the only way to "stop the opponent from making 4+ negation boards". In some decks, it may be better to run cards that can actually take apart such boards, such as Lava Golem and The Winged Dragon of Ra - Sphere Mode. In other decks, it may be better to run Dark Ruler No More or Forbidden Droplet for dealing with such boards.
Have you considered any of these other options aside from just "hand traps"?



The card is still too restrictive most of the time to be worth running at even 2, let alone 3. Cards like Monster Reborn help you play through hand traps, but are also good even if the opponent isn't playing any hand traps as you can also just activate it to extend your own plays regardless. Called by the Grave helps shield you against hand traps that put themselves in the grave to activate but is also good even against monsters with grave effects in general, as you can also set it and use it in the opponent's turn to stop, for example, Destroyer Phoenix Enforcer, which is also a card many people are running. These 2 spells help you against hand traps but are also good outside of situations involving hand traps. Triple Tactics Talent is too specific, it's hard once per turn restriction is too much, and it doesn't do enough to justify such a restriction, or at least doesn't seem to synergize well enough with Unchained.



If your deck is a control deck then 1) You should be playing powerful control floodgates that work alongside your archetype. Eldlich plays Skill Drain, Altergeist plays Secret Village of the Spellcasters, Shaddoll plays El Shaddoll Winda, Sky Striker plays Mystic Mine, Floowandereeze plays both Floowandereeze & Empen and Barrier Statue of the Stormwinds, Krawler plays both Rivalry of Warlords and Gozen Match, and so on. Since Unchained is, in this case, a Fiend-focused deck, it may help to play (or at least side deck) Rivalry of Warlords and Anti-Spell Fragrance.
2) Hand traps shouldn't hurt your deck much if it's meant to be a control deck. Hand traps are meant to hurt, the most, combo decks.



What else is Greg503 missing from those replays I commented on that I didn't already comment on?[/quote:he28irpy]
If you play only one of a hand trap which is once per turn then it is not worth putting in.[/quote:he28irpy]

Not true. Some hand traps are better off being ran at 2, and others may be better off being ran at 1. The only hard-once-per-turn hand trap that has always been worth running at 3 whenever possible was Maxx "C" due to how powerful that card was.

Ash is a generic card that that stops things like fusion destiny, branded fusion and red eyes fusion important cards that you need ash for.

Dark Ruler No More, Kaijus, and Santa Claws can stop those cards too. Not just Ash Blossom. Ash Blossom being hard once per turn really hurts since, if the opponent brings out Verte Anaconda, you can Ash that, but then they just activate Fusion Destiny from the hand anyway, so now, instead of your next card being an Ash, it's better off being something that can actually deal with the Destroyer Phoenix Enforcer, or Red-Eyes Dark Dragoon, they bring out.

Another major advantage to playing Dark Ruler No More, Kaijus, Forbidden Droplet, or Santa Claws, over Ash Blossom is that, if you rely on Ash Blossom to stop the opponent from resolving the fusion spell, you need to have the Ash Blossom in your hand at the time the fusion spell's activated, but with a Kaiju, even if you don't have it in your hand at that moment, as long as you at least end up drawing it next turn, you can out the fusion monster, whereas if you don't have Ash the moment the fusion spell's activated but instead just draw it in your next turn, it's too late at that point as the fusion has already come out.

On top of that, what if they have both Branded Fusion and Fusion Destiny, or a way to make Verte but also have Fusion Destiny in hand as a backup? If you Ash 1 of those cards they'll just fall back on the other one, which did happen in quite a few of those replays of yours. Lava Golem or Dark Ruler No More would be more suitable in those kinds of situations.

If you want to insist on playing 3 Ash Blossom without considering any of these other cards I listed, go ahead. It's your deck at the end of the day. I'm just telling you that the card has it's pros and cons and that I strongly believe it's cons outweigh the pros, at least in most decks.

The Deck can play floodgates but it depends on which cards you are playing as you can play different combinations.

So figure out which combinations are the best for your deck.

What Unchained does is to end on a link 2 rage with some backrow and handraps. This us really good as decks with the Adventure Token Engine and they actually Rite of aramesir you can use rage to link off with the token making the adventure token engine useless at that point.

This would be a good strategy if it wasn't hindered by Rage's restrictions, but the card requires at least 1 of it's link materials to be specifically an Unchained Soul monster instead of just any Unchained monster so it can't easily be made with any of the Unchained Twins, and it's effect to link with the opponent's monster only works in the opponent's turn instead of also your own turn, further hurting the card's utility.

Then you still have other interruption. The Deck may not seem to be good but it causes trouble for a lot of people as they don't know the ins and outside which is why I can beat top decks.

If the only way for you to be able to beat top decks with Unchained is for people to "not know the ins and outs" of it, that makes Unchained bad.

Plus Greg503 hasn't answered any of my points

You didn't answer my point about how Unchained struggles mostly with getting out Rage and how too many of Unchained's cards are +0 or -1 in card advantage while too little of their cards are actually +1 in card advantage.

and by his replies he hasn't watched the replays either.

Why do you need specifically him to also watch your replays when I already watched them so he wouldn't have to?[/quote:he28irpy]
Dark ruler no more us really good but in a format we're people are activating cards in SP then it makes Dark ruler worse than it could be. Which is why running handraps can be more beneficial. Plus running 2 or 3 ash depends on the amount of other handraps you are playing.

Plus I never said the only way Unchained can win is that people don't know the ins and outs it just gives you an advantage. Read properly. You are literally doing thee same in the silence is consent thread.

Plus Greg503 I am trying to get an answer from him since his points might be different.

[quote="greg503":2ip0it7s][quote="Sound4":2ip0it7s][quote="greg503":2ip0it7s]
You won game 1 because he bricked with cards I don't run, game 2 you tried to Nib in End Phase, lmao. Game 3 was just bad siding, Evenly is bad against a deck that goes -. I with my deck, would win, if I played DB[/quote:2ip0it7s]
He was running floodgates like any other trap deck. Plus you didn't answer any of my points on why you're deck isn't as good as you think it is. Plus Unchained doesn't really goes -. If you use aruha to destroy an unchained S/T activates it's effect to summon Sarama from deck and then use ura effect to put the S/T and destroy Aruha. Use Aruba effect to summon abom or disaster and go into link 2 rage set some backrow and pass.[/quote:2ip0it7s]
The Adventurer package ONLY stops Marrionetter and a Normal Summoned Meluseek from using its battle effect. Every other Altergiest you'll Special Summon, or not need to use it's effect the same turn as Aramesir. With Unchained, if you have the Adventurer package, you need to lead with it because the "Twins" lock you into Fiends. You won't always draw both the important Normal and Adventurer on the same hand either. I would rather have Silq than Unchained Rage because Silq affects more cards, on top of Protocol, Spoofing, and Manifestation just being better backrow than "Raigeki Break." Altergeist is even good versus torrential if you have Silq or Protocol established. Cyberse Eldlich is better than Altergiest, but it's much better than Unchained, that's not an argument. As for floodgates, Altergeist has good enough interaction to not need them, although perhaps I should add Skill Drain for the synergy[/quote:2ip0it7s]
Overall the adventure token engine is not that good in decks like Altergeist since it doesn't go well together. Not only does it stop you normal summon it also prevents you from setting a good a mount of your traps. If you do want to play the Adventure Token Engine you need to cut most of your floodgates for your normal Altergeist traps like Cyberse Eldlich and Cyberse Eldlich has cyberse cards to support and extend plays.

[quote="Sound4":20q11jwj][quote="greg503":20q11jwj][quote="Sound4":20q11jwj]
He was running floodgates like any other trap deck. Plus you didn't answer any of my points on why you're deck isn't as good as you think it is. Plus Unchained doesn't really goes -. If you use aruha to destroy an unchained S/T activates it's effect to summon Sarama from deck and then use ura effect to put the S/T and destroy Aruha. Use Aruba effect to summon abom or disaster and go into link 2 rage set some backrow and pass.[/quote:20q11jwj]
The Adventurer package ONLY stops Marrionetter and a Normal Summoned Meluseek from using its battle effect. Every other Altergiest you'll Special Summon, or not need to use it's effect the same turn as Aramesir. With Unchained, if you have the Adventurer package, you need to lead with it because the "Twins" lock you into Fiends. You won't always draw both the important Normal and Adventurer on the same hand either. I would rather have Silq than Unchained Rage because Silq affects more cards, on top of Protocol, Spoofing, and Manifestation just being better backrow than "Raigeki Break." Altergeist is even good versus torrential if you have Silq or Protocol established. Cyberse Eldlich is better than Altergiest, but it's much better than Unchained, that's not an argument. As for floodgates, Altergeist has good enough interaction to not need them, although perhaps I should add Skill Drain for the synergy[/quote:20q11jwj]
Overall the adventure token engine is not that good in decks like Altergeist since it doesn't go well together. Not only does it stop you normal summon it also prevents you from setting a good a mount of your traps. If you do want to play the Adventure Token Engine you need to cut most of your floodgates for your normal Altergeist traps like Cyberse Eldlich and Cyberse Eldlich has cyberse cards to support and extend plays.[/quote:20q11jwj]
OH NO, I have to use 3 S/T zones! Good thing I only have 3 other continuous cards, 2 of which I can bounce at will with Silq. Also, why would I play the other Altergiest traps? They suck.

[quote="greg503":3br5vf57][quote="Sound4":3br5vf57][quote="greg503":3br5vf57]
The Adventurer package ONLY stops Marrionetter and a Normal Summoned Meluseek from using its battle effect. Every other Altergiest you'll Special Summon, or not need to use it's effect the same turn as Aramesir. With Unchained, if you have the Adventurer package, you need to lead with it because the "Twins" lock you into Fiends. You won't always draw both the important Normal and Adventurer on the same hand either. I would rather have Silq than Unchained Rage because Silq affects more cards, on top of Protocol, Spoofing, and Manifestation just being better backrow than "Raigeki Break." Altergeist is even good versus torrential if you have Silq or Protocol established. Cyberse Eldlich is better than Altergiest, but it's much better than Unchained, that's not an argument. As for floodgates, Altergeist has good enough interaction to not need them, although perhaps I should add Skill Drain for the synergy[/quote:3br5vf57]
Overall the adventure token engine is not that good in decks like Altergeist since it doesn't go well together. Not only does it stop you normal summon it also prevents you from setting a good a mount of your traps. If you do want to play the Adventure Token Engine you need to cut most of your floodgates for your normal Altergeist traps like Cyberse Eldlich and Cyberse Eldlich has cyberse cards to support and extend plays.[/quote:3br5vf57]
OH NO, I have to use 3 S/T zones! Good thing I only have 3 other continuous cards, 2 of which I can bounce at will with Silq. Also, why would I play the other Altergiest traps? They suck.[/quote:3br5vf57]
Skill drain also does not go well with the Adventure Token Engine it is another reason why cyberse Eldlich doesn't run it. It is another reason why the Adventure Token Engine does not go well with Altergeist.

[quote="Sound4":3t8xq019][quote="greg503":3t8xq019][quote="Sound4":3t8xq019]
Overall the adventure token engine is not that good in decks like Altergeist since it doesn't go well together. Not only does it stop you normal summon it also prevents you from setting a good a mount of your traps. If you do want to play the Adventure Token Engine you need to cut most of your floodgates for your normal Altergeist traps like Cyberse Eldlich and Cyberse Eldlich has cyberse cards to support and extend plays.[/quote:3t8xq019]
OH NO, I have to use 3 S/T zones! Good thing I only have 3 other continuous cards, 2 of which I can bounce at will with Silq. Also, why would I play the other Altergiest traps? They suck.[/quote:3t8xq019]
Skill drain also does not go well with the Adventure Token Engine it is another reason why cyberse Eldlich doesn't run it. It is another reason why the Adventure Token Engine does not go well with Altergeist.[/quote:3t8xq019]
Werent you the same guy who was saying adveturer token isnt that good?
Regardless, not working with token, sure. But it works both with and against a lot other cards.

I'd rather decide between 2 good cards than have mediocre cards like Unchained

[quote="greg503":3cfuqa9o]I'd rather decide between 2 good cards than have mediocre cards like Unchained[/quote:3cfuqa9o]
Exactly.

[quote="Lil Oldman":293jyrhi][quote="Sound4":293jyrhi][quote="greg503":293jyrhi]
OH NO, I have to use 3 S/T zones! Good thing I only have 3 other continuous cards, 2 of which I can bounce at will with Silq. Also, why would I play the other Altergiest traps? They suck.[/quote:293jyrhi]
Skill drain also does not go well with the Adventure Token Engine it is another reason why cyberse Eldlich doesn't run it. It is another reason why the Adventure Token Engine does not go well with Altergeist.[/quote:293jyrhi]
Werent you the same guy who was saying adveturer token isnt that good?
Regardless, not working with token, sure. But it works both with and against a lot other cards.[/quote:293jyrhi]
When did ever say Adventure Token wasn't good?

[quote="greg503":1kmn7jap]I'd rather decide between 2 good cards than have mediocre cards like Unchained[/quote:1kmn7jap]
Again Unchained is rogue and even better with a good pilot.

[quote="Sound4":1h5pe3yy][quote="greg503":1h5pe3yy]I'd rather decide between 2 good cards than have mediocre cards like Unchained[/quote:1h5pe3yy]
Again Unchained is rogue and even better with a good pilot.[/quote:1h5pe3yy]
its really not it only looked decent because of coder and floodgates
no matter how good you are you wont consistently beat top tier decks

[quote="Sound4":17q1ted3][quote="greg503":17q1ted3]I'd rather decide between 2 good cards than have mediocre cards like Unchained[/quote:17q1ted3]
Again Unchained is rogue and even better with a good pilot.[/quote:17q1ted3]
Unchained is trash tier.

[quote="Christen57":31nlztwn][quote="Sound4":31nlztwn][quote="Christen57":31nlztwn]

Why were you telling us to watch your replays then if you aren't willing to go through them with us?



In that case, you may be better off going to Advanced Unrated then, and putting in your duel note "competitive decks only" or something.



I know enough.



That's fine. You just don't need to (and shouldn't) run multiple copies of the same hard-once-per-turn hand trap. Ash Blossom, Ghost Ogre, Ghost Mourner, Nibiru, Artifact Lancea, and Ghost Belle should each be at no more than 1 copy. The hand traps you should be running 3 copies of, if you want to run 3 copies of specific hand traps, are Effect Veiler, D.D. Crow, Skull Meister, Typhoon, Infinite Impermanence, and so on.

Also, hand traps aren't the only way to "stop the opponent from making 4+ negation boards". In some decks, it may be better to run cards that can actually take apart such boards, such as Lava Golem and The Winged Dragon of Ra - Sphere Mode. In other decks, it may be better to run Dark Ruler No More or Forbidden Droplet for dealing with such boards.
Have you considered any of these other options aside from just "hand traps"?



The card is still too restrictive most of the time to be worth running at even 2, let alone 3. Cards like Monster Reborn help you play through hand traps, but are also good even if the opponent isn't playing any hand traps as you can also just activate it to extend your own plays regardless. Called by the Grave helps shield you against hand traps that put themselves in the grave to activate but is also good even against monsters with grave effects in general, as you can also set it and use it in the opponent's turn to stop, for example, Destroyer Phoenix Enforcer, which is also a card many people are running. These 2 spells help you against hand traps but are also good outside of situations involving hand traps. Triple Tactics Talent is too specific, it's hard once per turn restriction is too much, and it doesn't do enough to justify such a restriction, or at least doesn't seem to synergize well enough with Unchained.



If your deck is a control deck then 1) You should be playing powerful control floodgates that work alongside your archetype. Eldlich plays Skill Drain, Altergeist plays Secret Village of the Spellcasters, Shaddoll plays El Shaddoll Winda, Sky Striker plays Mystic Mine, Floowandereeze plays both Floowandereeze & Empen and Barrier Statue of the Stormwinds, Krawler plays both Rivalry of Warlords and Gozen Match, and so on. Since Unchained is, in this case, a Fiend-focused deck, it may help to play (or at least side deck) Rivalry of Warlords and Anti-Spell Fragrance.
2) Hand traps shouldn't hurt your deck much if it's meant to be a control deck. Hand traps are meant to hurt, the most, combo decks.



What else is Greg503 missing from those replays I commented on that I didn't already comment on?[/quote:31nlztwn]
If you play only one of a hand trap which is once per turn then it is not worth putting in.[/quote:31nlztwn]

Not true. Some hand traps are better off being ran at 2, and others may be better off being ran at 1. The only hard-once-per-turn hand trap that has always been worth running at 3 whenever possible was Maxx "C" due to how powerful that card was.

Ash is a generic card that that stops things like fusion destiny, branded fusion and red eyes fusion important cards that you need ash for.

Dark Ruler No More, Kaijus, and Santa Claws can stop those cards too. Not just Ash Blossom. Ash Blossom being hard once per turn really hurts since, if the opponent brings out Verte Anaconda, you can Ash that, but then they just activate Fusion Destiny from the hand anyway, so now, instead of your next card being an Ash, it's better off being something that can actually deal with the Destroyer Phoenix Enforcer, or Red-Eyes Dark Dragoon, they bring out.

Another major advantage to playing Dark Ruler No More, Kaijus, Forbidden Droplet, or Santa Claws, over Ash Blossom is that, if you rely on Ash Blossom to stop the opponent from resolving the fusion spell, you need to have the Ash Blossom in your hand at the time the fusion spell's activated, but with a Kaiju, even if you don't have it in your hand at that moment, as long as you at least end up drawing it next turn, you can out the fusion monster, whereas if you don't have Ash the moment the fusion spell's activated but instead just draw it in your next turn, it's too late at that point as the fusion has already come out.

On top of that, what if they have both Branded Fusion and Fusion Destiny, or a way to make Verte but also have Fusion Destiny in hand as a backup? If you Ash 1 of those cards they'll just fall back on the other one, which did happen in quite a few of those replays of yours. Lava Golem or Dark Ruler No More would be more suitable in those kinds of situations.

If you want to insist on playing 3 Ash Blossom without considering any of these other cards I listed, go ahead. It's your deck at the end of the day. I'm just telling you that the card has it's pros and cons and that I strongly believe it's cons outweigh the pros, at least in most decks.

The Deck can play floodgates but it depends on which cards you are playing as you can play different combinations.

So figure out which combinations are the best for your deck.

What Unchained does is to end on a link 2 rage with some backrow and handraps. This us really good as decks with the Adventure Token Engine and they actually Rite of aramesir you can use rage to link off with the token making the adventure token engine useless at that point.

This would be a good strategy if it wasn't hindered by Rage's restrictions, but the card requires at least 1 of it's link materials to be specifically an Unchained Soul monster instead of just any Unchained monster so it can't easily be made with any of the Unchained Twins, and it's effect to link with the opponent's monster only works in the opponent's turn instead of also your own turn, further hurting the card's utility.

Then you still have other interruption. The Deck may not seem to be good but it causes trouble for a lot of people as they don't know the ins and outside which is why I can beat top decks.

If the only way for you to be able to beat top decks with Unchained is for people to "not know the ins and outs" of it, that makes Unchained bad.

Plus Greg503 hasn't answered any of my points

You didn't answer my point about how Unchained struggles mostly with getting out Rage and how too many of Unchained's cards are +0 or -1 in card advantage while too little of their cards are actually +1 in card advantage.

and by his replies he hasn't watched the replays either.

Why do you need specifically him to also watch your replays when I already watched them so he wouldn't have to?[/quote:31nlztwn]
I think you're underestimating the difference between stopping a play in its tracks vs letting the play happen, then trying to out the end result with other cards. In this specific instance, let's compare ash vs a Kaiju against Branded plays.

The opponent normals aluber, grabs Branded Fusion, Activates Branded Fusion, sends Tragedy and Albaz for Lubellion, Lubellion & Tragedy effs activate. Tragedy adds as lib, Lubellion fuses away itself and Albaz to make Mirrorjade. Mirrorjade's effect is activated, banishing Aluber, sending Albion. End phase, Albion sets Red. Now the turn is passed. Let's take a moment to review the situation. At the moment, a Kaiju accomplishes nothing. Furthermore, once they deem it a good time to do so, that Branded player will use Red, probably making a Chimera. Ad lib will then bring back Mirrorjade. Now compare this to what would happen if you had used ash on BraFu. The opponent has resources set up so they can make plays next turn, they have a non-targeting banish and pop available, etc. They wouldn't have ANY of this if instead if a Kaiju, you had Ash. And this is one such example. Even if the opponent theoretically opened Aluber and FD, the result is still the same. Ash does more here than a Kaiju, AND DRNM.

Don't get me wrong, there are numerous decks where running Kaijus and such is beneficial, and even better than HT's, but looking at it on a base level, they aren't really better. It's format and deck dependant.

[quote="PENMASTER":109yrpii][quote="Sound4":109yrpii][quote="greg503":109yrpii]I'd rather decide between 2 good cards than have mediocre cards like Unchained[/quote:109yrpii]
Again Unchained is rogue and even better with a good pilot.[/quote:109yrpii]
its really not it only looked decent because of coder and floodgates
no matter how good you are you wont consistently beat top tier decks[/quote:109yrpii]
Have you beat any top tier decks with whatever deck you are using?

[quote="Sound4":20g4aeih][quote="PENMASTER":20g4aeih][quote="Sound4":20g4aeih]
Again Unchained is rogue and even better with a good pilot.[/quote:20g4aeih]
its really not it only looked decent because of coder and floodgates
no matter how good you are you wont consistently beat top tier decks[/quote:20g4aeih]
Have you beat any top tier decks with whatever deck you are using?[/quote:20g4aeih]
Yes, even Metaphys can get that lucky

[quote="Sound4":3j0ojkji][quote="PENMASTER":3j0ojkji][quote="Sound4":3j0ojkji]
Again Unchained is rogue and even better with a good pilot.[/quote:3j0ojkji]
its really not it only looked decent because of coder and floodgates
no matter how good you are you wont consistently beat top tier decks[/quote:3j0ojkji]
Have you beat any top tier decks with whatever deck you are using?[/quote:3j0ojkji]
yes I go to my comp locals with d/d/d and consistently get fourth

[quote="PENMASTER":20rqymc6][quote="Sound4":20rqymc6][quote="PENMASTER":20rqymc6]
its really not it only looked decent because of coder and floodgates
no matter how good you are you wont consistently beat top tier decks[/quote:20rqymc6]
Have you beat any top tier decks with whatever deck you are using?[/quote:20rqymc6]
yes I go to my comp locals with d/d/d and consistently get fourth[/quote:20rqymc6]
Inb4 your locals consist of 10 people

[quote="Renji Asuka":dmax35a3][quote="PENMASTER":dmax35a3][quote="Sound4":dmax35a3]
Have you beat any top tier decks with whatever deck you are using?[/quote:dmax35a3]
yes I go to my comp locals with d/d/d and consistently get fourth[/quote:dmax35a3]
Inb4 your locals consist of 10 people [/quote:dmax35a3]
your somewhat close we normally get 14-16 people and everyone plays some rouge or meta deck except like 3 people

[quote="PENMASTER":3rqb86vh][quote="Renji Asuka":3rqb86vh][quote="PENMASTER":3rqb86vh]
yes I go to my comp locals with d/d/d and consistently get fourth[/quote:3rqb86vh]
Inb4 your locals consist of 10 people [/quote:3rqb86vh]
your somewhat close we normally get 14-16 people and everyone plays some rouge or meta deck except like 3 people[/quote:3rqb86vh]
I was making a joke x)

[quote="Sound4":1v3ox2hb]Plus I never said the only way Unchained can win is that people don't know the ins and outs it just gives you an advantage. Read properly. You are literally doing thee same in the silence is consent thread.[/quote:1v3ox2hb]

I guess I should've worded my statement better. What I meant to say was, it's hardly a good strategy, or even a good mindset, to rely in any way on your opponent "not knowing" your archetype. I like to always assume my opponents will know, or at least end up figuring out quickly, some of my cards, combos, and other lines of play I may have in mind.

Sure, an opponent not knowing Unchained will make 'em more likely to waste a hand trap, negation, or disruption or something, on the wrong card/effect, but the question is, does that small advantage outweigh the major advantage Unchained still has of too many of it's cards being bricks or -1s in card advantage and too little of it's cards being +1 in card advantage?

Plus Greg503 I am trying to get an answer from him since his points might be different.

It should be clear now that his points are pretty much the same as mine and Renji Asuka's — that Unchained's weaknesses outweigh it's strengths and that you're better off switching to a stronger deck.

[quote="itsmetristan":1v3ox2hb]Don't get me wrong, there are numerous decks where running Kaijus and such is beneficial, and even better than HT's, but looking at it on a base level, they aren't really better. It's format and deck dependant.[/quote:1v3ox2hb]

Yeah, I may have been judging these hand traps more on how well they worked in my competitive deck than in the deck(s) Sound4 was playing. In this current format, my competitive deck of choice is what people call a "Pile" deck — a deck revolving around not any specific archetype but some random but powerful engines thrown together that happen to synergize with one another. [url:1v3ox2hb]https://www.reddit.com/r/Yugioh101/comments/t9wg62/ive_heard_the_term_pile_deck_being_thrown_around/[/url:1v3ox2hb]

Pile decks allow room for creativity and variety, as different Pile decks can use different engine combinations. Some Pile decks like this one for example that somebody posted on ygoprodeck.com consist of a Rose Dragon engine, a Destroyer Phoenix Enforcer engine, an Adventurer Token engine, a Magicians' Souls engine, a P.U.N.K. engine, and a Small World engine, all put together to work in harmony.

My Pile deck utilizes the Destroyer Phoenix Enforcer engine (Fusion Destiny, Celestial, Dasher, and Verte Anaconda) for offense, a Mystic Mine engine (Mystic Mine, Demise of the Land, and Metaverse) for defense, and the Adventurer engine (Aramesir, Enchantress, Gryphon Rider, Fateful Adventure, and Dracoback) for support. However, instead of hand traps, I chose to max out on Lava Golem, Dark Ruler, Ra Sphere Mode, Alpha, Pankratops, and Lightning Storm. These cards proved to be better in a deck like mine because they synergized with my deck better than hand traps. Lava Golem and Sphere Mode, for example, both eat up my normal summon, while the Adventurer engine disallows my normal summoned monsters' effects, but those restrictions barely affect me since my deck hardly cares about normal summoning.

Unchained, however, relies far more on normal summoning, in order to begin any plays, than my deck does, making it far riskier to run board-breakers or the Adventurer engine in that deck, so, for Unchained, hand traps are probably indeed the best option. My only concern is, if Sound4's going to run hand traps, the only hand traps good running 3 of are the ones that aren't hard once per turn, are crazy powerful like how powerful Maxx "C" was when that card was still legal, or actually synergize with the deck, like how Nibiru often synergized with Rock decks since it could be searched off of Gallant Granite, or how Ash Blossom often synergized with Salamangreats due to being recyclable with Sunlight Wolf, or how Ghost Ogre often synergized with Psychic decks due to being searchable off of Emergency Teleport.

Now, earlier, I mentioned one major advantage a board-breaker like Dark Ruler No More or Lava Golem has over a hand trap: Usually, with a board-breaker (assuming you're going second of course), you have 6 chances to draw it whereas with a hand trap, you have only 5 chances. When going second, whatever hand trap you're running needs to be seen among your first 5 cards in your opening hand for you to be able to stop an opponent's combo. If you instead draw that hand trap during your turn as your 6th card, it'll likely be too late then as the opponent has already assembled their board. With a board-breaker, however, you can either have it in your opening hand among your 5 cards or draw it as your 6th card in your turn, making it more consistent and forgiving than a hand trap, which is especially important for Pile decks as Pile decks often exceed 40 cards in the main deck, hurting chances of seeing the hand trap(s) in the opening hand.

However, I forgot to mention 2 other major advantages a board-breaker tends to have over a hand trap. First, board-breakers are a bit harder to stop/counter than hand traps. Decks like Swordsoul or Mythical Beast, or decks that run Terrortop/Taketomborg and Small World, or the Adventurer Engine, will often have a negate ready by their 5th summon to stop Nibiru, Called by the Grave stops hand traps that put themselves in the grave to activate, Sauravis stops hand traps that target and is searchable off of Preparation of Rites, Dinosaur decks can use Lost World to put a token on the opponent's field to stop Gamma and Imperm, Warrior decks can use Aqua Dolphin (which is searchable with Neo Space Connector which is searchable with Reinforcement of the Army) to take out hand traps with low ATK, WATER decks have Deep Sea Minstrel which temporarily removes hand traps, and some decks run enough extenders to let them shrug off a hand trap or two and assemble a board regardless. Dark Ruler No More cares about none of this.

Second, when it comes to board-breakers, you get to wait until after the opponent has invested much of their hand into their combo before you begin investing your board-breakers and hand into answering their board. This is important because, with each card you see them play to assemble their board, you're getting more information on their cards and deck before they've gotten any information on your cards. With a hand trap, it's more of a gamble. If it's the first turn, you open up with Ash Blossom, your opponent's going first, and the first card they play is something like Quick Launch or Emergency Teleport, do you Ash that spell, or do you let it resolve and wait for them to play an even stronger card then Ash that? What if that Quick Launch/Emergency Teleport was their strongest card while the other cards in their hand were bricks or something and you now missed a golden opportunity to use your Ash? Keep in mind they haven't yet normal summoned or played any other cards, so what if you Ash that spell but it turns out they were just using that to bait out an Ash, and then they start normal summoning and playing their stronger card(s) you wish you saved your Ash for? Now you've given them crucial information about what you're playing before they've given you much information about what they're playing, putting yourself at a disadvantage, and, you wasted a hand trap, putting yourself further at a disadvantage.

In competitive yugioh, it's generally a good a idea to save your disruptions/board-breakers until the last moment in which you can and should use them, like how players would often flip Mystical Space Typhoon to destroy backrow in the end phase instead of the main phase, or use ATK-modifying effects in the damage step if possible, instead of the battle step. With an Ash Blossom, it's harder to determine when that "last moment in which you can and should use them" will be, but with board-breakers, it's easier to figure out when to use those — during your turn against an already-assembled board since you've already seen much of their cards and thus have enough information (on what the opponent's playing) to make an informed decision, whereas with hand traps, it's trickier because the opponent often hasn't yet played enough cards to give you such information for you to make an informed decision, meaning you'll have to guess if that card you wish to Ash is the best Ash-target at that moment or if the opponent just wants you to waste Ash on that card so they can then play their stronger card(s) without worrying about an Ash.
When I play a board-breaker knowing my opponent has already vomited their hand onto the field to do their combo to assemble that board, I'm playing that board-breaker knowing I most likely won't have to worry about any additional extenders or tricks up my opponents' sleeves for a while, but with a hand trap, I have to do this awkward guessing-game thing where I have to either use my hand trap immediately, hoping it's the right time to use it and that the opponent has no further extenders or stronger cards I would've wanted to use my hand trap on, or hold onto my hand trap, hoping my opponent doesn't seize the opportunity to bring out a negate such as Herald of the Arc Light or Apollousa afterwards to keep me from ever using my hand trap. If I guess wrong in either case, I'll most likely lose as my opponent will continue to build up their board until it's too difficult to break. This issue is less likely to occur when I rely on actual board-breakers, and more likely to occur when I rely on hand traps that stop the opponent from combo-ing off only if you guess correctly.

[quote="Christen57":2y4ap34y][quote="Sound4":2y4ap34y]Plus I never said the only way Unchained can win is that people don't know the ins and outs it just gives you an advantage. Read properly. You are literally doing thee same in the silence is consent thread.[/quote:2y4ap34y]

I guess I should've worded my statement better. What I meant to say was, it's hardly a good strategy, or even a good mindset, to rely in any way on your opponent "not knowing" your archetype. I like to always assume my opponents will know, or at least end up figuring out quickly, some of my cards, combos, and other lines of play I may have in mind.

Sure, an opponent not knowing Unchained will make 'em more likely to waste a hand trap, negation, or disruption or something, on the wrong card/effect, but the question is, does that small advantage outweigh the major advantage Unchained still has of too many of it's cards being bricks or -1s in card advantage and too little of it's cards being +1 in card advantage?

Plus Greg503 I am trying to get an answer from him since his points might be different.

It should be clear now that his points are pretty much the same as mine and Renji Asuka's — that Unchained's weaknesses outweigh it's strengths and that you're better off switching to a stronger deck.

[quote="itsmetristan":2y4ap34y]Don't get me wrong, there are numerous decks where running Kaijus and such is beneficial, and even better than HT's, but looking at it on a base level, they aren't really better. It's format and deck dependant.[/quote:2y4ap34y]

Yeah, I may have been judging these hand traps more on how well they worked in my competitive deck than in the deck(s) Sound4 was playing. In this current format, my competitive deck of choice is what people call a "Pile" deck — a deck revolving around not any specific archetype but some random but powerful engines thrown together that happen to synergize with one another. [url:2y4ap34y]https://www.reddit.com/r/Yugioh101/comments/t9wg62/ive_heard_the_term_pile_deck_being_thrown_around/[/url:2y4ap34y]

Pile decks allow room for creativity and variety, as different Pile decks can use different engine combinations. Some Pile decks like this one for example that somebody posted on ygoprodeck.com consist of a Rose Dragon engine, a Destroyer Phoenix Enforcer engine, an Adventurer Token engine, a Magicians' Souls engine, a P.U.N.K. engine, and a Small World engine, all put together to work in harmony.

My Pile deck utilizes the Destroyer Phoenix Enforcer engine (Fusion Destiny, Celestial, Dasher, and Verte Anaconda) for offense, a Mystic Mine engine (Mystic Mine, Demise of the Land, and Metaverse) for defense, and the Adventurer engine (Aramesir, Enchantress, Gryphon Rider, Fateful Adventure, and Dracoback) for support. However, instead of hand traps, I chose to max out on Lava Golem, Dark Ruler, Ra Sphere Mode, Alpha, Pankratops, and Lightning Storm. These cards proved to be better in a deck like mine because they synergized with my deck better than hand traps. Lava Golem and Sphere Mode, for example, both eat up my normal summon, while the Adventurer engine disallows my normal summoned monsters' effects, but those restrictions barely affect me since my deck hardly cares about normal summoning.

Unchained, however, relies far more on normal summoning, in order to begin any plays, than my deck does, making it far riskier to run board-breakers or the Adventurer engine in that deck, so, for Unchained, hand traps are probably indeed the best option. My only concern is, if Sound4's going to run hand traps, the only hand traps good running 3 of are the ones that aren't hard once per turn, are crazy powerful like how powerful Maxx "C" was when that card was still legal, or actually synergize with the deck, like how Nibiru often synergized with Rock decks since it could be searched off of Gallant Granite, or how Ash Blossom often synergized with Salamangreats due to being recyclable with Sunlight Wolf, or how Ghost Ogre often synergized with Psychic decks due to being searchable off of Emergency Teleport.

Now, earlier, I mentioned one major advantage a board-breaker like Dark Ruler No More or Lava Golem has over a hand trap: Usually, with a board-breaker (assuming you're going second of course), you have 6 chances to draw it whereas with a hand trap, you have only 5 chances. When going second, whatever hand trap you're running needs to be seen among your first 5 cards in your opening hand for you to be able to stop an opponent's combo. If you instead draw that hand trap during your turn as your 6th card, it'll likely be too late then as the opponent has already assembled their board. With a board-breaker, however, you can either have it in your opening hand among your 5 cards or draw it as your 6th card in your turn, making it more consistent and forgiving than a hand trap, which is especially important for Pile decks as Pile decks often exceed 40 cards in the main deck, hurting chances of seeing the hand trap(s) in the opening hand.

However, I forgot to mention 2 other major advantages a board-breaker tends to have over a hand trap. First, board-breakers are a bit harder to stop/counter than hand traps. Decks like Swordsoul or Mythical Beast, or decks that run Terrortop/Taketomborg and Small World, or the Adventurer Engine, will often have a negate ready by their 5th summon to stop Nibiru, Called by the Grave stops hand traps that put themselves in the grave to activate, Sauravis stops hand traps that target and is searchable off of Preparation of Rites, Dinosaur decks can use Lost World to put a token on the opponent's field to stop Gamma and Imperm, Warrior decks can use Aqua Dolphin (which is searchable with Neo Space Connector which is searchable with Reinforcement of the Army) to take out hand traps with low ATK, WATER decks have Deep Sea Minstrel which temporarily removes hand traps, and some decks run enough extenders to let them shrug off a hand trap or two and assemble a board regardless. Dark Ruler No More cares about none of this.

Second, when it comes to board-breakers, you get to wait until after the opponent has invested much of their hand into their combo before you begin investing your board-breakers and hand into answering their board. This is important because, with each card you see them play to assemble their board, you're getting more information on their cards and deck before they've gotten any information on your cards. With a hand trap, it's more of a gamble. If it's the first turn, you open up with Ash Blossom, your opponent's going first, and the first card they play is something like Quick Launch or Emergency Teleport, do you Ash that spell, or do you let it resolve and wait for them to play an even stronger card then Ash that? What if that Quick Launch/Emergency Teleport was their strongest card while the other cards in their hand were bricks or something and you now missed a golden opportunity to use your Ash? Keep in mind they haven't yet normal summoned or played any other cards, so what if you Ash that spell but it turns out they were just using that to bait out an Ash, and then they start normal summoning and playing their stronger card(s) you wish you saved your Ash for? Now you've given them crucial information about what you're playing before they've given you much information about what they're playing, putting yourself at a disadvantage, and, you wasted a hand trap, putting yourself further at a disadvantage.

In competitive yugioh, it's generally a good a idea to save your disruptions/board-breakers until the last moment in which you can and should use them, like how players would often flip Mystical Space Typhoon to destroy backrow in the end phase instead of the main phase, or use ATK-modifying effects in the damage step if possible, instead of the battle step. With an Ash Blossom, it's harder to determine when that "last moment in which you can and should use them" will be, but with board-breakers, it's easier to figure out when to use those — during your turn against an already-assembled board since you've already seen much of their cards and thus have enough information (on what the opponent's playing) to make an informed decision, whereas with hand traps, it's trickier because the opponent often hasn't yet played enough cards to give you such information for you to make an informed decision, meaning you'll have to guess if that card you wish to Ash is the best Ash-target at that moment or if the opponent just wants you to waste Ash on that card so they can then play their stronger card(s) without worrying about an Ash.
When I play a board-breaker knowing my opponent has already vomited their hand onto the field to do their combo to assemble that board, I'm playing that board-breaker knowing I most likely won't have to worry about any additional extenders or tricks up my opponents' sleeves for a while, but with a hand trap, I have to do this awkward guessing-game thing where I have to either use my hand trap immediately, hoping it's the right time to use it and that the opponent has no further extenders or stronger cards I would've wanted to use my hand trap on, or hold onto my hand trap, hoping my opponent doesn't seize the opportunity to bring out a negate such as Herald of the Arc Light or Apollousa afterwards to keep me from ever using my hand trap. If I guess wrong in either case, I'll most likely lose as my opponent will continue to build up their board until it's too difficult to break. This issue is less likely to occur when I rely on actual board-breakers, and more likely to occur when I rely on hand traps that stop the opponent from combo-ing off only if you guess correctly.[/quote:2y4ap34y]
Don't get me wrong, I'm not telling Sound4 NOT to play Unchained, if he wants to play it more power to him.

Just want him to realize that his deck isn't as good as he thinks it is and understand why it'll struggle compared to actual rogue decks.

[quote="Renji Asuka":2ho8v9zd][quote="PENMASTER":2ho8v9zd][quote="Renji Asuka":2ho8v9zd]
Inb4 your locals consist of 10 people [/quote:2ho8v9zd]
your somewhat close we normally get 14-16 people and everyone plays some rouge or meta deck except like 3 people[/quote:2ho8v9zd]
I was making a joke x)[/quote:2ho8v9zd]
i know I just wanna brag

[quote="Renji Asuka":gw96st4o][quote="Christen57":gw96st4o][quote="Sound4":gw96st4o]Plus I never said the only way Unchained can win is that people don't know the ins and outs it just gives you an advantage. Read properly. You are literally doing thee same in the silence is consent thread.[/quote:gw96st4o]

I guess I should've worded my statement better. What I meant to say was, it's hardly a good strategy, or even a good mindset, to rely in any way on your opponent "not knowing" your archetype. I like to always assume my opponents will know, or at least end up figuring out quickly, some of my cards, combos, and other lines of play I may have in mind.

Sure, an opponent not knowing Unchained will make 'em more likely to waste a hand trap, negation, or disruption or something, on the wrong card/effect, but the question is, does that small advantage outweigh the major advantage Unchained still has of too many of it's cards being bricks or -1s in card advantage and too little of it's cards being +1 in card advantage?

Plus Greg503 I am trying to get an answer from him since his points might be different.

It should be clear now that his points are pretty much the same as mine and Renji Asuka's — that Unchained's weaknesses outweigh it's strengths and that you're better off switching to a stronger deck.

[quote="itsmetristan":gw96st4o]Don't get me wrong, there are numerous decks where running Kaijus and such is beneficial, and even better than HT's, but looking at it on a base level, they aren't really better. It's format and deck dependant.[/quote:gw96st4o]

Yeah, I may have been judging these hand traps more on how well they worked in my competitive deck than in the deck(s) Sound4 was playing. In this current format, my competitive deck of choice is what people call a "Pile" deck — a deck revolving around not any specific archetype but some random but powerful engines thrown together that happen to synergize with one another. [url:gw96st4o]https://www.reddit.com/r/Yugioh101/comments/t9wg62/ive_heard_the_term_pile_deck_being_thrown_around/[/url:gw96st4o]

Pile decks allow room for creativity and variety, as different Pile decks can use different engine combinations. Some Pile decks like this one for example that somebody posted on ygoprodeck.com consist of a Rose Dragon engine, a Destroyer Phoenix Enforcer engine, an Adventurer Token engine, a Magicians' Souls engine, a P.U.N.K. engine, and a Small World engine, all put together to work in harmony.

My Pile deck utilizes the Destroyer Phoenix Enforcer engine (Fusion Destiny, Celestial, Dasher, and Verte Anaconda) for offense, a Mystic Mine engine (Mystic Mine, Demise of the Land, and Metaverse) for defense, and the Adventurer engine (Aramesir, Enchantress, Gryphon Rider, Fateful Adventure, and Dracoback) for support. However, instead of hand traps, I chose to max out on Lava Golem, Dark Ruler, Ra Sphere Mode, Alpha, Pankratops, and Lightning Storm. These cards proved to be better in a deck like mine because they synergized with my deck better than hand traps. Lava Golem and Sphere Mode, for example, both eat up my normal summon, while the Adventurer engine disallows my normal summoned monsters' effects, but those restrictions barely affect me since my deck hardly cares about normal summoning.

Unchained, however, relies far more on normal summoning, in order to begin any plays, than my deck does, making it far riskier to run board-breakers or the Adventurer engine in that deck, so, for Unchained, hand traps are probably indeed the best option. My only concern is, if Sound4's going to run hand traps, the only hand traps good running 3 of are the ones that aren't hard once per turn, are crazy powerful like how powerful Maxx "C" was when that card was still legal, or actually synergize with the deck, like how Nibiru often synergized with Rock decks since it could be searched off of Gallant Granite, or how Ash Blossom often synergized with Salamangreats due to being recyclable with Sunlight Wolf, or how Ghost Ogre often synergized with Psychic decks due to being searchable off of Emergency Teleport.

Now, earlier, I mentioned one major advantage a board-breaker like Dark Ruler No More or Lava Golem has over a hand trap: Usually, with a board-breaker (assuming you're going second of course), you have 6 chances to draw it whereas with a hand trap, you have only 5 chances. When going second, whatever hand trap you're running needs to be seen among your first 5 cards in your opening hand for you to be able to stop an opponent's combo. If you instead draw that hand trap during your turn as your 6th card, it'll likely be too late then as the opponent has already assembled their board. With a board-breaker, however, you can either have it in your opening hand among your 5 cards or draw it as your 6th card in your turn, making it more consistent and forgiving than a hand trap, which is especially important for Pile decks as Pile decks often exceed 40 cards in the main deck, hurting chances of seeing the hand trap(s) in the opening hand.

However, I forgot to mention 2 other major advantages a board-breaker tends to have over a hand trap. First, board-breakers are a bit harder to stop/counter than hand traps. Decks like Swordsoul or Mythical Beast, or decks that run Terrortop/Taketomborg and Small World, or the Adventurer Engine, will often have a negate ready by their 5th summon to stop Nibiru, Called by the Grave stops hand traps that put themselves in the grave to activate, Sauravis stops hand traps that target and is searchable off of Preparation of Rites, Dinosaur decks can use Lost World to put a token on the opponent's field to stop Gamma and Imperm, Warrior decks can use Aqua Dolphin (which is searchable with Neo Space Connector which is searchable with Reinforcement of the Army) to take out hand traps with low ATK, WATER decks have Deep Sea Minstrel which temporarily removes hand traps, and some decks run enough extenders to let them shrug off a hand trap or two and assemble a board regardless. Dark Ruler No More cares about none of this.

Second, when it comes to board-breakers, you get to wait until after the opponent has invested much of their hand into their combo before you begin investing your board-breakers and hand into answering their board. This is important because, with each card you see them play to assemble their board, you're getting more information on their cards and deck before they've gotten any information on your cards. With a hand trap, it's more of a gamble. If it's the first turn, you open up with Ash Blossom, your opponent's going first, and the first card they play is something like Quick Launch or Emergency Teleport, do you Ash that spell, or do you let it resolve and wait for them to play an even stronger card then Ash that? What if that Quick Launch/Emergency Teleport was their strongest card while the other cards in their hand were bricks or something and you now missed a golden opportunity to use your Ash? Keep in mind they haven't yet normal summoned or played any other cards, so what if you Ash that spell but it turns out they were just using that to bait out an Ash, and then they start normal summoning and playing their stronger card(s) you wish you saved your Ash for? Now you've given them crucial information about what you're playing before they've given you much information about what they're playing, putting yourself at a disadvantage, and, you wasted a hand trap, putting yourself further at a disadvantage.

In competitive yugioh, it's generally a good a idea to save your disruptions/board-breakers until the last moment in which you can and should use them, like how players would often flip Mystical Space Typhoon to destroy backrow in the end phase instead of the main phase, or use ATK-modifying effects in the damage step if possible, instead of the battle step. With an Ash Blossom, it's harder to determine when that "last moment in which you can and should use them" will be, but with board-breakers, it's easier to figure out when to use those — during your turn against an already-assembled board since you've already seen much of their cards and thus have enough information (on what the opponent's playing) to make an informed decision, whereas with hand traps, it's trickier because the opponent often hasn't yet played enough cards to give you such information for you to make an informed decision, meaning you'll have to guess if that card you wish to Ash is the best Ash-target at that moment or if the opponent just wants you to waste Ash on that card so they can then play their stronger card(s) without worrying about an Ash.
When I play a board-breaker knowing my opponent has already vomited their hand onto the field to do their combo to assemble that board, I'm playing that board-breaker knowing I most likely won't have to worry about any additional extenders or tricks up my opponents' sleeves for a while, but with a hand trap, I have to do this awkward guessing-game thing where I have to either use my hand trap immediately, hoping it's the right time to use it and that the opponent has no further extenders or stronger cards I would've wanted to use my hand trap on, or hold onto my hand trap, hoping my opponent doesn't seize the opportunity to bring out a negate such as Herald of the Arc Light or Apollousa afterwards to keep me from ever using my hand trap. If I guess wrong in either case, I'll most likely lose as my opponent will continue to build up their board until it's too difficult to break. This issue is less likely to occur when I rely on actual board-breakers, and more likely to occur when I rely on hand traps that stop the opponent from combo-ing off only if you guess correctly.[/quote:gw96st4o]
Don't get me wrong, I'm not telling Sound4 NOT to play Unchained, if he wants to play it more power to him.

Just want him to realize that his deck isn't as good as he thinks it is and understand why it'll struggle compared to actual rogue decks.[/quote:gw96st4o]
It doesn't struggle against most decks if you play the Deck correctly. You say it us bad in the grind game but most people don't know how to play the Deck correctly when it comes to the grind game.

[quote="PENMASTER":1y2nbhkq][quote="Renji Asuka":1y2nbhkq][quote="PENMASTER":1y2nbhkq]
yes I go to my comp locals with d/d/d and consistently get fourth[/quote:1y2nbhkq]
Inb4 your locals consist of 10 people [/quote:1y2nbhkq]
your somewhat close we normally get 14-16 people and everyone plays some rouge or meta deck except like 3 people[/quote:1y2nbhkq]
Not impressive you are getting fourth with not even 30 people.

[quote="Christen57":1xkcjfrv][quote="Sound4":1xkcjfrv]Plus I never said the only way Unchained can win is that people don't know the ins and outs it just gives you an advantage. Read properly. You are literally doing thee same in the silence is consent thread.[/quote:1xkcjfrv]

I guess I should've worded my statement better. What I meant to say was, it's hardly a good strategy, or even a good mindset, to rely in any way on your opponent "not knowing" your archetype. I like to always assume my opponents will know, or at least end up figuring out quickly, some of my cards, combos, and other lines of play I may have in mind.

Sure, an opponent not knowing Unchained will make 'em more likely to waste a hand trap, negation, or disruption or something, on the wrong card/effect, but the question is, does that small advantage outweigh the major advantage Unchained still has of too many of it's cards being bricks or -1s in card advantage and too little of it's cards being +1 in card advantage?

Plus Greg503 I am trying to get an answer from him since his points might be different.

It should be clear now that his points are pretty much the same as mine and Renji Asuka's — that Unchained's weaknesses outweigh it's strengths and that you're better off switching to a stronger deck.

[quote="itsmetristan":1xkcjfrv]Don't get me wrong, there are numerous decks where running Kaijus and such is beneficial, and even better than HT's, but looking at it on a base level, they aren't really better. It's format and deck dependant.[/quote:1xkcjfrv]

Yeah, I may have been judging these hand traps more on how well they worked in my competitive deck than in the deck(s) Sound4 was playing. In this current format, my competitive deck of choice is what people call a "Pile" deck — a deck revolving around not any specific archetype but some random but powerful engines thrown together that happen to synergize with one another. [url:1xkcjfrv]https://www.reddit.com/r/Yugioh101/comments/t9wg62/ive_heard_the_term_pile_deck_being_thrown_around/[/url:1xkcjfrv]

Pile decks allow room for creativity and variety, as different Pile decks can use different engine combinations. Some Pile decks like this one for example that somebody posted on ygoprodeck.com consist of a Rose Dragon engine, a Destroyer Phoenix Enforcer engine, an Adventurer Token engine, a Magicians' Souls engine, a P.U.N.K. engine, and a Small World engine, all put together to work in harmony.

My Pile deck utilizes the Destroyer Phoenix Enforcer engine (Fusion Destiny, Celestial, Dasher, and Verte Anaconda) for offense, a Mystic Mine engine (Mystic Mine, Demise of the Land, and Metaverse) for defense, and the Adventurer engine (Aramesir, Enchantress, Gryphon Rider, Fateful Adventure, and Dracoback) for support. However, instead of hand traps, I chose to max out on Lava Golem, Dark Ruler, Ra Sphere Mode, Alpha, Pankratops, and Lightning Storm. These cards proved to be better in a deck like mine because they synergized with my deck better than hand traps. Lava Golem and Sphere Mode, for example, both eat up my normal summon, while the Adventurer engine disallows my normal summoned monsters' effects, but those restrictions barely affect me since my deck hardly cares about normal summoning.

Unchained, however, relies far more on normal summoning, in order to begin any plays, than my deck does, making it far riskier to run board-breakers or the Adventurer engine in that deck, so, for Unchained, hand traps are probably indeed the best option. My only concern is, if Sound4's going to run hand traps, the only hand traps good running 3 of are the ones that aren't hard once per turn, are crazy powerful like how powerful Maxx "C" was when that card was still legal, or actually synergize with the deck, like how Nibiru often synergized with Rock decks since it could be searched off of Gallant Granite, or how Ash Blossom often synergized with Salamangreats due to being recyclable with Sunlight Wolf, or how Ghost Ogre often synergized with Psychic decks due to being searchable off of Emergency Teleport.

Now, earlier, I mentioned one major advantage a board-breaker like Dark Ruler No More or Lava Golem has over a hand trap: Usually, with a board-breaker (assuming you're going second of course), you have 6 chances to draw it whereas with a hand trap, you have only 5 chances. When going second, whatever hand trap you're running needs to be seen among your first 5 cards in your opening hand for you to be able to stop an opponent's combo. If you instead draw that hand trap during your turn as your 6th card, it'll likely be too late then as the opponent has already assembled their board. With a board-breaker, however, you can either have it in your opening hand among your 5 cards or draw it as your 6th card in your turn, making it more consistent and forgiving than a hand trap, which is especially important for Pile decks as Pile decks often exceed 40 cards in the main deck, hurting chances of seeing the hand trap(s) in the opening hand.

However, I forgot to mention 2 other major advantages a board-breaker tends to have over a hand trap. First, board-breakers are a bit harder to stop/counter than hand traps. Decks like Swordsoul or Mythical Beast, or decks that run Terrortop/Taketomborg and Small World, or the Adventurer Engine, will often have a negate ready by their 5th summon to stop Nibiru, Called by the Grave stops hand traps that put themselves in the grave to activate, Sauravis stops hand traps that target and is searchable off of Preparation of Rites, Dinosaur decks can use Lost World to put a token on the opponent's field to stop Gamma and Imperm, Warrior decks can use Aqua Dolphin (which is searchable with Neo Space Connector which is searchable with Reinforcement of the Army) to take out hand traps with low ATK, WATER decks have Deep Sea Minstrel which temporarily removes hand traps, and some decks run enough extenders to let them shrug off a hand trap or two and assemble a board regardless. Dark Ruler No More cares about none of this.

Second, when it comes to board-breakers, you get to wait until after the opponent has invested much of their hand into their combo before you begin investing your board-breakers and hand into answering their board. This is important because, with each card you see them play to assemble their board, you're getting more information on their cards and deck before they've gotten any information on your cards. With a hand trap, it's more of a gamble. If it's the first turn, you open up with Ash Blossom, your opponent's going first, and the first card they play is something like Quick Launch or Emergency Teleport, do you Ash that spell, or do you let it resolve and wait for them to play an even stronger card then Ash that? What if that Quick Launch/Emergency Teleport was their strongest card while the other cards in their hand were bricks or something and you now missed a golden opportunity to use your Ash? Keep in mind they haven't yet normal summoned or played any other cards, so what if you Ash that spell but it turns out they were just using that to bait out an Ash, and then they start normal summoning and playing their stronger card(s) you wish you saved your Ash for? Now you've given them crucial information about what you're playing before they've given you much information about what they're playing, putting yourself at a disadvantage, and, you wasted a hand trap, putting yourself further at a disadvantage.

In competitive yugioh, it's generally a good a idea to save your disruptions/board-breakers until the last moment in which you can and should use them, like how players would often flip Mystical Space Typhoon to destroy backrow in the end phase instead of the main phase, or use ATK-modifying effects in the damage step if possible, instead of the battle step. With an Ash Blossom, it's harder to determine when that "last moment in which you can and should use them" will be, but with board-breakers, it's easier to figure out when to use those — during your turn against an already-assembled board since you've already seen much of their cards and thus have enough information (on what the opponent's playing) to make an informed decision, whereas with hand traps, it's trickier because the opponent often hasn't yet played enough cards to give you such information for you to make an informed decision, meaning you'll have to guess if that card you wish to Ash is the best Ash-target at that moment or if the opponent just wants you to waste Ash on that card so they can then play their stronger card(s) without worrying about an Ash.
When I play a board-breaker knowing my opponent has already vomited their hand onto the field to do their combo to assemble that board, I'm playing that board-breaker knowing I most likely won't have to worry about any additional extenders or tricks up my opponents' sleeves for a while, but with a hand trap, I have to do this awkward guessing-game thing where I have to either use my hand trap immediately, hoping it's the right time to use it and that the opponent has no further extenders or stronger cards I would've wanted to use my hand trap on, or hold onto my hand trap, hoping my opponent doesn't seize the opportunity to bring out a negate such as Herald of the Arc Light or Apollousa afterwards to keep me from ever using my hand trap. If I guess wrong in either case, I'll most likely lose as my opponent will continue to build up their board until it's too difficult to break. This issue is less likely to occur when I rely on actual board-breakers, and more likely to occur when I rely on hand traps that stop the opponent from combo-ing off only if you guess correctly.[/quote:1xkcjfrv]
What do you mean too many of its cards are bricks? The only grckis disaster which you run 1 that is it.

You can still use handyrap on your opponents turn. Fir example, your opponent has Apollousa on the fiels. Your normal summon a monster abs activate its effect. Opponent negated with Apollousa you can chain ogre to destroy and your effect resolves. Handraps can be ysed on your opponent's turn it just has to be used smartly.

As itsmetristan says it is format reliant. Board breaking stuff was really good in the format which Swordsoul and Lyrilusc Tri Brigade were dominanting. Handraps aren't necessarily effective but if you play so many of them they become effective. Cars like Dark ruler no more, Forbidden Droplet and Evenly match aren't bad but it isn't like the format where you could just activate one of those cards and win the game. Like I said earlier a lot of people are activating things in SP making Dark ruler mit as good and droplet if your opponent has a massive board you have to sacrifice most of your zarss except probably one and then a lot if people have been setting up snow in GY so set your monster face down.

[quote="Sound4":1fr9n4ak][quote="Christen57":1fr9n4ak][quote="Sound4":1fr9n4ak]Plus I never said the only way Unchained can win is that people don't know the ins and outs it just gives you an advantage. Read properly. You are literally doing thee same in the silence is consent thread.[/quote:1fr9n4ak]

I guess I should've worded my statement better. What I meant to say was, it's hardly a good strategy, or even a good mindset, to rely in any way on your opponent "not knowing" your archetype. I like to always assume my opponents will know, or at least end up figuring out quickly, some of my cards, combos, and other lines of play I may have in mind.

Sure, an opponent not knowing Unchained will make 'em more likely to waste a hand trap, negation, or disruption or something, on the wrong card/effect, but the question is, does that small advantage outweigh the major advantage Unchained still has of too many of it's cards being bricks or -1s in card advantage and too little of it's cards being +1 in card advantage?

Plus Greg503 I am trying to get an answer from him since his points might be different.

It should be clear now that his points are pretty much the same as mine and Renji Asuka's — that Unchained's weaknesses outweigh it's strengths and that you're better off switching to a stronger deck.

[quote="itsmetristan":1fr9n4ak]Don't get me wrong, there are numerous decks where running Kaijus and such is beneficial, and even better than HT's, but looking at it on a base level, they aren't really better. It's format and deck dependant.[/quote:1fr9n4ak]

Yeah, I may have been judging these hand traps more on how well they worked in my competitive deck than in the deck(s) Sound4 was playing. In this current format, my competitive deck of choice is what people call a "Pile" deck — a deck revolving around not any specific archetype but some random but powerful engines thrown together that happen to synergize with one another. [url:1fr9n4ak]https://www.reddit.com/r/Yugioh101/comments/t9wg62/ive_heard_the_term_pile_deck_being_thrown_around/[/url:1fr9n4ak]

Pile decks allow room for creativity and variety, as different Pile decks can use different engine combinations. Some Pile decks like this one for example that somebody posted on ygoprodeck.com consist of a Rose Dragon engine, a Destroyer Phoenix Enforcer engine, an Adventurer Token engine, a Magicians' Souls engine, a P.U.N.K. engine, and a Small World engine, all put together to work in harmony.

My Pile deck utilizes the Destroyer Phoenix Enforcer engine (Fusion Destiny, Celestial, Dasher, and Verte Anaconda) for offense, a Mystic Mine engine (Mystic Mine, Demise of the Land, and Metaverse) for defense, and the Adventurer engine (Aramesir, Enchantress, Gryphon Rider, Fateful Adventure, and Dracoback) for support. However, instead of hand traps, I chose to max out on Lava Golem, Dark Ruler, Ra Sphere Mode, Alpha, Pankratops, and Lightning Storm. These cards proved to be better in a deck like mine because they synergized with my deck better than hand traps. Lava Golem and Sphere Mode, for example, both eat up my normal summon, while the Adventurer engine disallows my normal summoned monsters' effects, but those restrictions barely affect me since my deck hardly cares about normal summoning.

Unchained, however, relies far more on normal summoning, in order to begin any plays, than my deck does, making it far riskier to run board-breakers or the Adventurer engine in that deck, so, for Unchained, hand traps are probably indeed the best option. My only concern is, if Sound4's going to run hand traps, the only hand traps good running 3 of are the ones that aren't hard once per turn, are crazy powerful like how powerful Maxx "C" was when that card was still legal, or actually synergize with the deck, like how Nibiru often synergized with Rock decks since it could be searched off of Gallant Granite, or how Ash Blossom often synergized with Salamangreats due to being recyclable with Sunlight Wolf, or how Ghost Ogre often synergized with Psychic decks due to being searchable off of Emergency Teleport.

Now, earlier, I mentioned one major advantage a board-breaker like Dark Ruler No More or Lava Golem has over a hand trap: Usually, with a board-breaker (assuming you're going second of course), you have 6 chances to draw it whereas with a hand trap, you have only 5 chances. When going second, whatever hand trap you're running needs to be seen among your first 5 cards in your opening hand for you to be able to stop an opponent's combo. If you instead draw that hand trap during your turn as your 6th card, it'll likely be too late then as the opponent has already assembled their board. With a board-breaker, however, you can either have it in your opening hand among your 5 cards or draw it as your 6th card in your turn, making it more consistent and forgiving than a hand trap, which is especially important for Pile decks as Pile decks often exceed 40 cards in the main deck, hurting chances of seeing the hand trap(s) in the opening hand.

However, I forgot to mention 2 other major advantages a board-breaker tends to have over a hand trap. First, board-breakers are a bit harder to stop/counter than hand traps. Decks like Swordsoul or Mythical Beast, or decks that run Terrortop/Taketomborg and Small World, or the Adventurer Engine, will often have a negate ready by their 5th summon to stop Nibiru, Called by the Grave stops hand traps that put themselves in the grave to activate, Sauravis stops hand traps that target and is searchable off of Preparation of Rites, Dinosaur decks can use Lost World to put a token on the opponent's field to stop Gamma and Imperm, Warrior decks can use Aqua Dolphin (which is searchable with Neo Space Connector which is searchable with Reinforcement of the Army) to take out hand traps with low ATK, WATER decks have Deep Sea Minstrel which temporarily removes hand traps, and some decks run enough extenders to let them shrug off a hand trap or two and assemble a board regardless. Dark Ruler No More cares about none of this.

Second, when it comes to board-breakers, you get to wait until after the opponent has invested much of their hand into their combo before you begin investing your board-breakers and hand into answering their board. This is important because, with each card you see them play to assemble their board, you're getting more information on their cards and deck before they've gotten any information on your cards. With a hand trap, it's more of a gamble. If it's the first turn, you open up with Ash Blossom, your opponent's going first, and the first card they play is something like Quick Launch or Emergency Teleport, do you Ash that spell, or do you let it resolve and wait for them to play an even stronger card then Ash that? What if that Quick Launch/Emergency Teleport was their strongest card while the other cards in their hand were bricks or something and you now missed a golden opportunity to use your Ash? Keep in mind they haven't yet normal summoned or played any other cards, so what if you Ash that spell but it turns out they were just using that to bait out an Ash, and then they start normal summoning and playing their stronger card(s) you wish you saved your Ash for? Now you've given them crucial information about what you're playing before they've given you much information about what they're playing, putting yourself at a disadvantage, and, you wasted a hand trap, putting yourself further at a disadvantage.

In competitive yugioh, it's generally a good a idea to save your disruptions/board-breakers until the last moment in which you can and should use them, like how players would often flip Mystical Space Typhoon to destroy backrow in the end phase instead of the main phase, or use ATK-modifying effects in the damage step if possible, instead of the battle step. With an Ash Blossom, it's harder to determine when that "last moment in which you can and should use them" will be, but with board-breakers, it's easier to figure out when to use those — during your turn against an already-assembled board since you've already seen much of their cards and thus have enough information (on what the opponent's playing) to make an informed decision, whereas with hand traps, it's trickier because the opponent often hasn't yet played enough cards to give you such information for you to make an informed decision, meaning you'll have to guess if that card you wish to Ash is the best Ash-target at that moment or if the opponent just wants you to waste Ash on that card so they can then play their stronger card(s) without worrying about an Ash.
When I play a board-breaker knowing my opponent has already vomited their hand onto the field to do their combo to assemble that board, I'm playing that board-breaker knowing I most likely won't have to worry about any additional extenders or tricks up my opponents' sleeves for a while, but with a hand trap, I have to do this awkward guessing-game thing where I have to either use my hand trap immediately, hoping it's the right time to use it and that the opponent has no further extenders or stronger cards I would've wanted to use my hand trap on, or hold onto my hand trap, hoping my opponent doesn't seize the opportunity to bring out a negate such as Herald of the Arc Light or Apollousa afterwards to keep me from ever using my hand trap. If I guess wrong in either case, I'll most likely lose as my opponent will continue to build up their board until it's too difficult to break. This issue is less likely to occur when I rely on actual board-breakers, and more likely to occur when I rely on hand traps that stop the opponent from combo-ing off only if you guess correctly.[/quote:1fr9n4ak]
What do you mean too many of its cards are bricks? The only grckis disaster which you run 1 that is it.

You can still use handyrap on your opponents turn. Fir example, your opponent has Apollousa on the fiels. Your normal summon a monster abs activate its effect. Opponent negated with Apollousa you can chain ogre to destroy and your effect resolves. Handraps can be ysed on your opponent's turn it just has to be used smartly.

As itsmetristan says it is format reliant. Board breaking stuff was really good in the format which Swordsoul and Lyrilusc Tri Brigade were dominanting. Handraps aren't necessarily effective but if you play so many of them they become effective. Cars like Dark ruler no more, Forbidden Droplet and Evenly match aren't bad but it isn't like the format where you could just activate one of those cards and win the game. Like I said earlier a lot of people are activating things in SP making Dark ruler mit as good and droplet if your opponent has a massive board you have to sacrifice most of your zarss except probably one and then a lot if people have been setting up snow in GY so set your monster face down.[/quote:1fr9n4ak]
Hand Traps don't help push for plays when going first. That is why they are bricks. You said that Unchained was a control deck, so by that logic, you want to go first, which makes hand traps less viable since they don't help you in setting up a board to actually control the opponent's plays.

[quote="Sound4":2kqrrp6n][quote="Renji Asuka":2kqrrp6n][quote="Christen57":2kqrrp6n]

I guess I should've worded my statement better. What I meant to say was, it's hardly a good strategy, or even a good mindset, to rely in any way on your opponent "not knowing" your archetype. I like to always assume my opponents will know, or at least end up figuring out quickly, some of my cards, combos, and other lines of play I may have in mind.

Sure, an opponent not knowing Unchained will make 'em more likely to waste a hand trap, negation, or disruption or something, on the wrong card/effect, but the question is, does that small advantage outweigh the major advantage Unchained still has of too many of it's cards being bricks or -1s in card advantage and too little of it's cards being +1 in card advantage?



It should be clear now that his points are pretty much the same as mine and Renji Asuka's — that Unchained's weaknesses outweigh it's strengths and that you're better off switching to a stronger deck.



Yeah, I may have been judging these hand traps more on how well they worked in my competitive deck than in the deck(s) Sound4 was playing. In this current format, my competitive deck of choice is what people call a "Pile" deck — a deck revolving around not any specific archetype but some random but powerful engines thrown together that happen to synergize with one another. [url:2kqrrp6n]https://www.reddit.com/r/Yugioh101/comments/t9wg62/ive_heard_the_term_pile_deck_being_thrown_around/[/url:2kqrrp6n]

Pile decks allow room for creativity and variety, as different Pile decks can use different engine combinations. Some Pile decks like this one for example that somebody posted on ygoprodeck.com consist of a Rose Dragon engine, a Destroyer Phoenix Enforcer engine, an Adventurer Token engine, a Magicians' Souls engine, a P.U.N.K. engine, and a Small World engine, all put together to work in harmony.

My Pile deck utilizes the Destroyer Phoenix Enforcer engine (Fusion Destiny, Celestial, Dasher, and Verte Anaconda) for offense, a Mystic Mine engine (Mystic Mine, Demise of the Land, and Metaverse) for defense, and the Adventurer engine (Aramesir, Enchantress, Gryphon Rider, Fateful Adventure, and Dracoback) for support. However, instead of hand traps, I chose to max out on Lava Golem, Dark Ruler, Ra Sphere Mode, Alpha, Pankratops, and Lightning Storm. These cards proved to be better in a deck like mine because they synergized with my deck better than hand traps. Lava Golem and Sphere Mode, for example, both eat up my normal summon, while the Adventurer engine disallows my normal summoned monsters' effects, but those restrictions barely affect me since my deck hardly cares about normal summoning.

Unchained, however, relies far more on normal summoning, in order to begin any plays, than my deck does, making it far riskier to run board-breakers or the Adventurer engine in that deck, so, for Unchained, hand traps are probably indeed the best option. My only concern is, if Sound4's going to run hand traps, the only hand traps good running 3 of are the ones that aren't hard once per turn, are crazy powerful like how powerful Maxx "C" was when that card was still legal, or actually synergize with the deck, like how Nibiru often synergized with Rock decks since it could be searched off of Gallant Granite, or how Ash Blossom often synergized with Salamangreats due to being recyclable with Sunlight Wolf, or how Ghost Ogre often synergized with Psychic decks due to being searchable off of Emergency Teleport.

Now, earlier, I mentioned one major advantage a board-breaker like Dark Ruler No More or Lava Golem has over a hand trap: Usually, with a board-breaker (assuming you're going second of course), you have 6 chances to draw it whereas with a hand trap, you have only 5 chances. When going second, whatever hand trap you're running needs to be seen among your first 5 cards in your opening hand for you to be able to stop an opponent's combo. If you instead draw that hand trap during your turn as your 6th card, it'll likely be too late then as the opponent has already assembled their board. With a board-breaker, however, you can either have it in your opening hand among your 5 cards or draw it as your 6th card in your turn, making it more consistent and forgiving than a hand trap, which is especially important for Pile decks as Pile decks often exceed 40 cards in the main deck, hurting chances of seeing the hand trap(s) in the opening hand.

However, I forgot to mention 2 other major advantages a board-breaker tends to have over a hand trap. First, board-breakers are a bit harder to stop/counter than hand traps. Decks like Swordsoul or Mythical Beast, or decks that run Terrortop/Taketomborg and Small World, or the Adventurer Engine, will often have a negate ready by their 5th summon to stop Nibiru, Called by the Grave stops hand traps that put themselves in the grave to activate, Sauravis stops hand traps that target and is searchable off of Preparation of Rites, Dinosaur decks can use Lost World to put a token on the opponent's field to stop Gamma and Imperm, Warrior decks can use Aqua Dolphin (which is searchable with Neo Space Connector which is searchable with Reinforcement of the Army) to take out hand traps with low ATK, WATER decks have Deep Sea Minstrel which temporarily removes hand traps, and some decks run enough extenders to let them shrug off a hand trap or two and assemble a board regardless. Dark Ruler No More cares about none of this.

Second, when it comes to board-breakers, you get to wait until after the opponent has invested much of their hand into their combo before you begin investing your board-breakers and hand into answering their board. This is important because, with each card you see them play to assemble their board, you're getting more information on their cards and deck before they've gotten any information on your cards. With a hand trap, it's more of a gamble. If it's the first turn, you open up with Ash Blossom, your opponent's going first, and the first card they play is something like Quick Launch or Emergency Teleport, do you Ash that spell, or do you let it resolve and wait for them to play an even stronger card then Ash that? What if that Quick Launch/Emergency Teleport was their strongest card while the other cards in their hand were bricks or something and you now missed a golden opportunity to use your Ash? Keep in mind they haven't yet normal summoned or played any other cards, so what if you Ash that spell but it turns out they were just using that to bait out an Ash, and then they start normal summoning and playing their stronger card(s) you wish you saved your Ash for? Now you've given them crucial information about what you're playing before they've given you much information about what they're playing, putting yourself at a disadvantage, and, you wasted a hand trap, putting yourself further at a disadvantage.

In competitive yugioh, it's generally a good a idea to save your disruptions/board-breakers until the last moment in which you can and should use them, like how players would often flip Mystical Space Typhoon to destroy backrow in the end phase instead of the main phase, or use ATK-modifying effects in the damage step if possible, instead of the battle step. With an Ash Blossom, it's harder to determine when that "last moment in which you can and should use them" will be, but with board-breakers, it's easier to figure out when to use those — during your turn against an already-assembled board since you've already seen much of their cards and thus have enough information (on what the opponent's playing) to make an informed decision, whereas with hand traps, it's trickier because the opponent often hasn't yet played enough cards to give you such information for you to make an informed decision, meaning you'll have to guess if that card you wish to Ash is the best Ash-target at that moment or if the opponent just wants you to waste Ash on that card so they can then play their stronger card(s) without worrying about an Ash.
When I play a board-breaker knowing my opponent has already vomited their hand onto the field to do their combo to assemble that board, I'm playing that board-breaker knowing I most likely won't have to worry about any additional extenders or tricks up my opponents' sleeves for a while, but with a hand trap, I have to do this awkward guessing-game thing where I have to either use my hand trap immediately, hoping it's the right time to use it and that the opponent has no further extenders or stronger cards I would've wanted to use my hand trap on, or hold onto my hand trap, hoping my opponent doesn't seize the opportunity to bring out a negate such as Herald of the Arc Light or Apollousa afterwards to keep me from ever using my hand trap. If I guess wrong in either case, I'll most likely lose as my opponent will continue to build up their board until it's too difficult to break. This issue is less likely to occur when I rely on actual board-breakers, and more likely to occur when I rely on hand traps that stop the opponent from combo-ing off only if you guess correctly.[/quote:2kqrrp6n]
Don't get me wrong, I'm not telling Sound4 NOT to play Unchained, if he wants to play it more power to him.

Just want him to realize that his deck isn't as good as he thinks it is and understand why it'll struggle compared to actual rogue decks.[/quote:2kqrrp6n]
It doesn't struggle against most decks if you play the Deck correctly. You say it us bad in the grind game but most people don't know how to play the Deck correctly when it comes to the grind game.[/quote:2kqrrp6n]
"It doesn't struggle against most decks if you play the Deck correctly. " Non argument, you can say that about any deck and it'd be true. That doesn't exactly show us or convince us that Unchained is good, fun fact, if it was, it'd be topping Konami events here and there. It doesn't.

[quote="Sound4":2wsqluse][quote="Christen57":2wsqluse][quote="Sound4":2wsqluse]Plus I never said the only way Unchained can win is that people don't know the ins and outs it just gives you an advantage. Read properly. You are literally doing thee same in the silence is consent thread.[/quote:2wsqluse]

I guess I should've worded my statement better. What I meant to say was, it's hardly a good strategy, or even a good mindset, to rely in any way on your opponent "not knowing" your archetype. I like to always assume my opponents will know, or at least end up figuring out quickly, some of my cards, combos, and other lines of play I may have in mind.

Sure, an opponent not knowing Unchained will make 'em more likely to waste a hand trap, negation, or disruption or something, on the wrong card/effect, but the question is, does that small advantage outweigh the major advantage Unchained still has of too many of it's cards being bricks or -1 in card advantage and too little of it's cards being +1 in card advantage?

Plus Greg503 I am trying to get an answer from him since his points might be different.

It should be clear now that his points are pretty much the same as mine and Renji Asuka's — that Unchained's weaknesses outweigh it's strengths and that you're better off switching to a stronger deck.

[quote="itsmetristan":2wsqluse]Don't get me wrong, there are numerous decks where running Kaijus and such is beneficial, and even better than HT's, but looking at it on a base level, they aren't really better. It's format and deck dependant.[/quote:2wsqluse]

Yeah, I may have been judging these hand traps more on how well they worked in my competitive deck than in the deck(s) Sound4 was playing. In this current format, my competitive deck of choice is what people call a "Pile" deck — a deck revolving around not any specific archetype but some random but powerful engines thrown together that happen to synergize with one another. [url:2wsqluse]https://www.reddit.com/r/Yugioh101/comments/t9wg62/ive_heard_the_term_pile_deck_being_thrown_around/[/url:2wsqluse]

Pile decks allow room for creativity and variety, as different Pile decks can use different engine combinations. Some Pile decks like this one for example that somebody posted on ygoprodeck.com consist of a Rose Dragon engine, a Destroyer Phoenix Enforcer engine, an Adventurer Token engine, a Magicians' Souls engine, a P.U.N.K. engine, and a Small World engine, all put together to work in harmony.

My Pile deck utilizes the Destroyer Phoenix Enforcer engine (Fusion Destiny, Celestial, Dasher, and Verte Anaconda) for offense, a Mystic Mine engine (Mystic Mine, Demise of the Land, and Metaverse) for defense, and the Adventurer engine (Aramesir, Enchantress, Gryphon Rider, Fateful Adventure, and Dracoback) for support. However, instead of hand traps, I chose to max out on Lava Golem, Dark Ruler, Ra Sphere Mode, Alpha, Pankratops, and Lightning Storm. These cards proved to be better in a deck like mine because they synergized with my deck better than hand traps. Lava Golem and Sphere Mode, for example, both eat up my normal summon, while the Adventurer engine disallows my normal summoned monsters' effects, but those restrictions barely affect me since my deck hardly cares about normal summoning.

Unchained, however, relies far more on normal summoning, in order to begin any plays, than my deck does, making it far riskier to run board-breakers or the Adventurer engine in that deck, so, for Unchained, hand traps are probably indeed the best option. My only concern is, if Sound4's going to run hand traps, the only hand traps good running 3 of are the ones that aren't hard once per turn, are crazy powerful like how powerful Maxx "C" was when that card was still legal, or actually synergize with the deck, like how Nibiru often synergized with Rock decks since it could be searched off of Gallant Granite, or how Ash Blossom often synergized with Salamangreats due to being recyclable with Sunlight Wolf, or how Ghost Ogre often synergized with Psychic decks due to being searchable off of Emergency Teleport.

Now, earlier, I mentioned one major advantage a board-breaker like Dark Ruler No More or Lava Golem has over a hand trap: Usually, with a board-breaker (assuming you're going second of course), you have 6 chances to draw it whereas with a hand trap, you have only 5 chances. When going second, whatever hand trap you're running needs to be seen among your first 5 cards in your opening hand for you to be able to stop an opponent's combo. If you instead draw that hand trap during your turn as your 6th card, it'll likely be too late then as the opponent has already assembled their board. With a board-breaker, however, you can either have it in your opening hand among your 5 cards or draw it as your 6th card in your turn, making it more consistent and forgiving than a hand trap, which is especially important for Pile decks as Pile decks often exceed 40 cards in the main deck, hurting chances of seeing the hand trap(s) in the opening hand.

However, I forgot to mention 2 other major advantages a board-breaker tends to have over a hand trap. First, board-breakers are a bit harder to stop/counter than hand traps. Decks like Swordsoul or Mythical Beast, or decks that run Terrortop/Taketomborg and Small World, or the Adventurer Engine, will often have a negate ready by their 5th summon to stop Nibiru, Called by the Grave stops hand traps that put themselves in the grave to activate, Sauravis stops hand traps that target and is searchable off of Preparation of Rites, Dinosaur decks can use Lost World to put a token on the opponent's field to stop Gamma and Imperm, Warrior decks can use Aqua Dolphin (which is searchable with Neo Space Connector which is searchable with Reinforcement of the Army) to take out hand traps with low ATK, WATER decks have Deep Sea Minstrel which temporarily removes hand traps, and some decks run enough extenders to let them shrug off a hand trap or two and assemble a board regardless. Dark Ruler No More cares about none of this.

Second, when it comes to board-breakers, you get to wait until after the opponent has invested much of their hand into their combo before you begin investing your board-breakers and hand into answering their board. This is important because, with each card you see them play to assemble their board, you're getting more information on their cards and deck before they've gotten any information on your cards. With a hand trap, it's more of a gamble. If it's the first turn, you open up with Ash Blossom, your opponent's going first, and the first card they play is something like Quick Launch or Emergency Teleport, do you Ash that spell, or do you let it resolve and wait for them to play an even stronger card then Ash that? What if that Quick Launch/Emergency Teleport was their strongest card while the other cards in their hand were bricks or something and you now missed a golden opportunity to use your Ash? Keep in mind they haven't yet normal summoned or played any other cards, so what if you Ash that spell but it turns out they were just using that to bait out an Ash, and then they start normal summoning and playing their stronger card(s) you wish you saved your Ash for? Now you've given them crucial information about what you're playing before they've given you much information about what they're playing, putting yourself at a disadvantage, and, you wasted a hand trap, putting yourself further at a disadvantage.

In competitive yugioh, it's generally a good a idea to save your disruptions/board-breakers until the last moment in which you can and should use them, like how players would often flip Mystical Space Typhoon to destroy backrow in the end phase instead of the main phase, or use ATK-modifying effects in the damage step if possible, instead of the battle step. With an Ash Blossom, it's harder to determine when that "last moment in which you can and should use them" will be, but with board-breakers, it's easier to figure out when to use those — during your turn against an already-assembled board since you've already seen much of their cards and thus have enough information (on what the opponent's playing) to make an informed decision, whereas with hand traps, it's trickier because the opponent often hasn't yet played enough cards to give you such information for you to make an informed decision, meaning you'll have to guess if that card you wish to Ash is the best Ash-target at that moment or if the opponent just wants you to waste Ash on that card so they can then play their stronger card(s) without worrying about an Ash.
When I play a board-breaker knowing my opponent has already vomited their hand onto the field to do their combo to assemble that board, I'm playing that board-breaker knowing I most likely won't have to worry about any additional extenders or tricks up my opponents' sleeves for a while, but with a hand trap, I have to do this awkward guessing-game thing where I have to either use my hand trap immediately, hoping it's the right time to use it and that the opponent has no further extenders or stronger cards I would've wanted to use my hand trap on, or hold onto my hand trap, hoping my opponent doesn't seize the opportunity to bring out a negate such as Herald of the Arc Light or Apollousa afterwards to keep me from ever using my hand trap. If I guess wrong in either case, I'll most likely lose as my opponent will continue to build up their board until it's too difficult to break. This issue is less likely to occur when I rely on actual board-breakers, and more likely to occur when I rely on hand traps that stop the opponent from combo-ing off only if you guess correctly.[/quote:2wsqluse]
What do you mean too many of its cards are bricks? The only grckis disaster which you run 1 that is it.[/quote:2wsqluse]

I said too many of it's main deck cards are either bricks or -1 in card advantage, not just that too many of it's cards are bricks. This means many of Unchained's main deck cards are -1 in card advantage, and most of the ones that aren't are too often bricks. Abominable is a -1 because it requires you to lose a card to be special summoned then discard another card just to destroy an opponent's card, Aruha and Rakea are -1 in card advantage and don't do enough to make up for it, Escape of the Unchained is a -1 in card advantage, and so on.

Fir example, your opponent has Apollousa on the fiels. Your normal summon a monster abs activate its effect. Opponent negated with Apollousa you can chain ogre to destroy and your effect resolves. Handraps can be ysed on your opponent's turn it just has to be used smartly.

And I explained why they're harder to use "smartly" than board-breakers.

As itsmetristan says it is format reliant. Board breaking stuff was really good in the format which Swordsoul and Lyrilusc Tri Brigade were dominanting. Handraps aren't necessarily effective but if you play so many of them they become effective.

If they either synergize with your deck, or aren't hard once per turn making it safe to draw multiple copies of them, then yes, they should be effective and worth maxing out on. However, there are 2 things that hurt hand traps' "effectiveness" in a deck like Unchained. First, hand traps tend to synergize best in decks that either can easily search/recycle them, or focus on 1-card plays, allowing the rest of the deck to be filled with hand traps. Examples of the first category are Blue-Eyes which can search out Effect Veiler due to it being a level 1 light tuner, as well as Lyrilusc which can search out D.D. Crow due to it being a level 1 winged beast. Examples of the second category would be decks like Invoked, Dogmatika, and Salamangreat. These decks tend to use engines small enough to be able to fit plenty of hand traps.

Neither of these seem to be the case with Unchained, and the archetype (at least from what I've seen in your replays) requires a lot of space for starters and engine requirements as it requires combinations of specific Unchained cards in hand to start any plays, so there doesn't appear to be much room in the deck you can safely dedicate to hand traps.

This brings me to my second reason why the effectiveness of hand traps is hurt in Unchained: Unchained struggles to capitalize on boards it uses hand traps to weaken. If you're going second, the opponent tries to combo off, and you play, for example, an Ash Blossom against one of their cards, even if it turned out to be the correct card to Ash and causes them to have to end their turn, if you can't then either FTK/OTK them, or set up a formidable board of your own, when your turn comes, there's nothing stopping them from simply continuing their combo where they left off when their next turn comes, rendering your efforts to hand trap them futile. If you hand trap the opponent 2/3 times, you have to follow it up with either an OTK or a strong enough board of your own (neither of which Unchained can easily or consistently pull off) to keep them from just picking up where they left off.

This reveals, yet again, another major advantage board-breakers have over hand traps: If the opponent starts a combo intending to go through half their extra deck or something by the time the combo is done, if you use a hand trap to slow down the combo, you then have to worry about doing something in your turn to ensure they can't continue where they left off and vomit out their extra deck in their next turn, but with a board-breaker, you can let them vomit their resources onto the board, then you can break that board, and because they've already burned through much of their resources, it'll be harder for them to combo again.

Cars like Dark ruler no more, Forbidden Droplet and Evenly match aren't bad but it isn't like the format where you could just activate one of those cards and win the game. Like I said earlier a lot of people are activating things in SP making Dark ruler mit as good and droplet if your opponent has a massive board you have to sacrifice most of your zarss except probably one and then a lot if people have been setting up snow in GY so set your monster face down.

You're right about Forbidden Droplet and Evenly Matched. I used to run Evenly Matched in my Pile deck until I realized it wasn't doing enough to help so I took it out.

[quote="Renji Asuka":11qjc6i5][quote="Sound4":11qjc6i5][quote="Renji Asuka":11qjc6i5]
Don't get me wrong, I'm not telling Sound4 NOT to play Unchained, if he wants to play it more power to him.

Just want him to realize that his deck isn't as good as he thinks it is and understand why it'll struggle compared to actual rogue decks.[/quote:11qjc6i5]
It doesn't struggle against most decks if you play the Deck correctly. You say it us bad in the grind game but most people don't know how to play the Deck correctly when it comes to the grind game.[/quote:11qjc6i5]
"It doesn't struggle against most decks if you play the Deck correctly. " Non argument, you can say that about any deck and it'd be true. That doesn't exactly show us or convince us that Unchained is good, fun fact, if it was, it'd be topping Konami events here and there. It doesn't.[/quote:11qjc6i5]
Again the Deck doesn't have much representation.

[quote="Renji Asuka":2qx6i4a3][quote="Sound4":2qx6i4a3][quote="Christen57":2qx6i4a3]

I guess I should've worded my statement better. What I meant to say was, it's hardly a good strategy, or even a good mindset, to rely in any way on your opponent "not knowing" your archetype. I like to always assume my opponents will know, or at least end up figuring out quickly, some of my cards, combos, and other lines of play I may have in mind.

Sure, an opponent not knowing Unchained will make 'em more likely to waste a hand trap, negation, or disruption or something, on the wrong card/effect, but the question is, does that small advantage outweigh the major advantage Unchained still has of too many of it's cards being bricks or -1s in card advantage and too little of it's cards being +1 in card advantage?



It should be clear now that his points are pretty much the same as mine and Renji Asuka's — that Unchained's weaknesses outweigh it's strengths and that you're better off switching to a stronger deck.



Yeah, I may have been judging these hand traps more on how well they worked in my competitive deck than in the deck(s) Sound4 was playing. In this current format, my competitive deck of choice is what people call a "Pile" deck — a deck revolving around not any specific archetype but some random but powerful engines thrown together that happen to synergize with one another. [url:2qx6i4a3]https://www.reddit.com/r/Yugioh101/comments/t9wg62/ive_heard_the_term_pile_deck_being_thrown_around/[/url:2qx6i4a3]

Pile decks allow room for creativity and variety, as different Pile decks can use different engine combinations. Some Pile decks like this one for example that somebody posted on ygoprodeck.com consist of a Rose Dragon engine, a Destroyer Phoenix Enforcer engine, an Adventurer Token engine, a Magicians' Souls engine, a P.U.N.K. engine, and a Small World engine, all put together to work in harmony.

My Pile deck utilizes the Destroyer Phoenix Enforcer engine (Fusion Destiny, Celestial, Dasher, and Verte Anaconda) for offense, a Mystic Mine engine (Mystic Mine, Demise of the Land, and Metaverse) for defense, and the Adventurer engine (Aramesir, Enchantress, Gryphon Rider, Fateful Adventure, and Dracoback) for support. However, instead of hand traps, I chose to max out on Lava Golem, Dark Ruler, Ra Sphere Mode, Alpha, Pankratops, and Lightning Storm. These cards proved to be better in a deck like mine because they synergized with my deck better than hand traps. Lava Golem and Sphere Mode, for example, both eat up my normal summon, while the Adventurer engine disallows my normal summoned monsters' effects, but those restrictions barely affect me since my deck hardly cares about normal summoning.

Unchained, however, relies far more on normal summoning, in order to begin any plays, than my deck does, making it far riskier to run board-breakers or the Adventurer engine in that deck, so, for Unchained, hand traps are probably indeed the best option. My only concern is, if Sound4's going to run hand traps, the only hand traps good running 3 of are the ones that aren't hard once per turn, are crazy powerful like how powerful Maxx "C" was when that card was still legal, or actually synergize with the deck, like how Nibiru often synergized with Rock decks since it could be searched off of Gallant Granite, or how Ash Blossom often synergized with Salamangreats due to being recyclable with Sunlight Wolf, or how Ghost Ogre often synergized with Psychic decks due to being searchable off of Emergency Teleport.

Now, earlier, I mentioned one major advantage a board-breaker like Dark Ruler No More or Lava Golem has over a hand trap: Usually, with a board-breaker (assuming you're going second of course), you have 6 chances to draw it whereas with a hand trap, you have only 5 chances. When going second, whatever hand trap you're running needs to be seen among your first 5 cards in your opening hand for you to be able to stop an opponent's combo. If you instead draw that hand trap during your turn as your 6th card, it'll likely be too late then as the opponent has already assembled their board. With a board-breaker, however, you can either have it in your opening hand among your 5 cards or draw it as your 6th card in your turn, making it more consistent and forgiving than a hand trap, which is especially important for Pile decks as Pile decks often exceed 40 cards in the main deck, hurting chances of seeing the hand trap(s) in the opening hand.

However, I forgot to mention 2 other major advantages a board-breaker tends to have over a hand trap. First, board-breakers are a bit harder to stop/counter than hand traps. Decks like Swordsoul or Mythical Beast, or decks that run Terrortop/Taketomborg and Small World, or the Adventurer Engine, will often have a negate ready by their 5th summon to stop Nibiru, Called by the Grave stops hand traps that put themselves in the grave to activate, Sauravis stops hand traps that target and is searchable off of Preparation of Rites, Dinosaur decks can use Lost World to put a token on the opponent's field to stop Gamma and Imperm, Warrior decks can use Aqua Dolphin (which is searchable with Neo Space Connector which is searchable with Reinforcement of the Army) to take out hand traps with low ATK, WATER decks have Deep Sea Minstrel which temporarily removes hand traps, and some decks run enough extenders to let them shrug off a hand trap or two and assemble a board regardless. Dark Ruler No More cares about none of this.

Second, when it comes to board-breakers, you get to wait until after the opponent has invested much of their hand into their combo before you begin investing your board-breakers and hand into answering their board. This is important because, with each card you see them play to assemble their board, you're getting more information on their cards and deck before they've gotten any information on your cards. With a hand trap, it's more of a gamble. If it's the first turn, you open up with Ash Blossom, your opponent's going first, and the first card they play is something like Quick Launch or Emergency Teleport, do you Ash that spell, or do you let it resolve and wait for them to play an even stronger card then Ash that? What if that Quick Launch/Emergency Teleport was their strongest card while the other cards in their hand were bricks or something and you now missed a golden opportunity to use your Ash? Keep in mind they haven't yet normal summoned or played any other cards, so what if you Ash that spell but it turns out they were just using that to bait out an Ash, and then they start normal summoning and playing their stronger card(s) you wish you saved your Ash for? Now you've given them crucial information about what you're playing before they've given you much information about what they're playing, putting yourself at a disadvantage, and, you wasted a hand trap, putting yourself further at a disadvantage.

In competitive yugioh, it's generally a good a idea to save your disruptions/board-breakers until the last moment in which you can and should use them, like how players would often flip Mystical Space Typhoon to destroy backrow in the end phase instead of the main phase, or use ATK-modifying effects in the damage step if possible, instead of the battle step. With an Ash Blossom, it's harder to determine when that "last moment in which you can and should use them" will be, but with board-breakers, it's easier to figure out when to use those — during your turn against an already-assembled board since you've already seen much of their cards and thus have enough information (on what the opponent's playing) to make an informed decision, whereas with hand traps, it's trickier because the opponent often hasn't yet played enough cards to give you such information for you to make an informed decision, meaning you'll have to guess if that card you wish to Ash is the best Ash-target at that moment or if the opponent just wants you to waste Ash on that card so they can then play their stronger card(s) without worrying about an Ash.
When I play a board-breaker knowing my opponent has already vomited their hand onto the field to do their combo to assemble that board, I'm playing that board-breaker knowing I most likely won't have to worry about any additional extenders or tricks up my opponents' sleeves for a while, but with a hand trap, I have to do this awkward guessing-game thing where I have to either use my hand trap immediately, hoping it's the right time to use it and that the opponent has no further extenders or stronger cards I would've wanted to use my hand trap on, or hold onto my hand trap, hoping my opponent doesn't seize the opportunity to bring out a negate such as Herald of the Arc Light or Apollousa afterwards to keep me from ever using my hand trap. If I guess wrong in either case, I'll most likely lose as my opponent will continue to build up their board until it's too difficult to break. This issue is less likely to occur when I rely on actual board-breakers, and more likely to occur when I rely on hand traps that stop the opponent from combo-ing off only if you guess correctly.[/quote:2qx6i4a3]
What do you mean too many of its cards are bricks? The only grckis disaster which you run 1 that is it.

You can still use handyrap on your opponents turn. Fir example, your opponent has Apollousa on the fiels. Your normal summon a monster abs activate its effect. Opponent negated with Apollousa you can chain ogre to destroy and your effect resolves. Handraps can be ysed on your opponent's turn it just has to be used smartly.

As itsmetristan says it is format reliant. Board breaking stuff was really good in the format which Swordsoul and Lyrilusc Tri Brigade were dominanting. Handraps aren't necessarily effective but if you play so many of them they become effective. Cars like Dark ruler no more, Forbidden Droplet and Evenly match aren't bad but it isn't like the format where you could just activate one of those cards and win the game. Like I said earlier a lot of people are activating things in SP making Dark ruler mit as good and droplet if your opponent has a massive board you have to sacrifice most of your zarss except probably one and then a lot if people have been setting up snow in GY so set your monster face down.[/quote:2qx6i4a3]
Hand Traps don't help push for plays when going first. That is why they are bricks. You said that Unchained was a control deck, so by that logic, you want to go first, which makes hand traps less viable since they don't help you in setting up a board to actually control the opponent's plays.[/quote:2qx6i4a3]
They are definitely not bricks going first. You clearly don't kniw much about this format. Those handraps are simply extra firms if disruption when you do your combo and end your turn. Plus yes Unchained is a control deck but traps don't do much against the Adventure Token decks so it isn't the most optimal.

[quote="Sound4":1bo9z302][quote="Renji Asuka":1bo9z302][quote="Sound4":1bo9z302]
It doesn't struggle against most decks if you play the Deck correctly. You say it us bad in the grind game but most people don't know how to play the Deck correctly when it comes to the grind game.[/quote:1bo9z302]
"It doesn't struggle against most decks if you play the Deck correctly. " Non argument, you can say that about any deck and it'd be true. That doesn't exactly show us or convince us that Unchained is good, fun fact, if it was, it'd be topping Konami events here and there. It doesn't.[/quote:1bo9z302]
Again the Deck doesn't have much representation.[/quote:1bo9z302]
And why doesn't it have much representation? That's right, because it's bad and doesn't win

[quote="Sound4":uol398dd][quote="Renji Asuka":uol398dd][quote="Sound4":uol398dd]
What do you mean too many of its cards are bricks? The only grckis disaster which you run 1 that is it.

You can still use handyrap on your opponents turn. Fir example, your opponent has Apollousa on the fiels. Your normal summon a monster abs activate its effect. Opponent negated with Apollousa you can chain ogre to destroy and your effect resolves. Handraps can be ysed on your opponent's turn it just has to be used smartly.

As itsmetristan says it is format reliant. Board breaking stuff was really good in the format which Swordsoul and Lyrilusc Tri Brigade were dominanting. Handraps aren't necessarily effective but if you play so many of them they become effective. Cars like Dark ruler no more, Forbidden Droplet and Evenly match aren't bad but it isn't like the format where you could just activate one of those cards and win the game. Like I said earlier a lot of people are activating things in SP making Dark ruler mit as good and droplet if your opponent has a massive board you have to sacrifice most of your zarss except probably one and then a lot if people have been setting up snow in GY so set your monster face down.[/quote:uol398dd]
Hand Traps don't help push for plays when going first. That is why they are bricks. You said that Unchained was a control deck, so by that logic, you want to go first, which makes hand traps less viable since they don't help you in setting up a board to actually control the opponent's plays.[/quote:uol398dd]
They are definitely not bricks going first. You clearly don't kniw much about this format. Those handraps are simply extra firms if disruption when you do your combo and end your turn. Plus yes Unchained is a control deck but traps don't do much against the Adventure Token decks so it isn't the most optimal.[/quote:uol398dd]
It's almost like you didn't read what I stated.

If they don't push for combo, they are bricks.

It's almost like you're being disingenuous.

The reason why the deck isn't represented btw. IS BECAUSE THE DECK IS TRASH.

Metagame rule number 1: People want to win
Metagame rule number 2: Something that wins is good, and people will attempt to counter it. The best things will thusly be what wins through most used counters to the strategy.
Metagame rule number 3: People will use the best things, the best things are now good, ignore what rule 2 said about things being good.
Unchained is bad QED

[quote="greg503":2y595dn8]Metagame rule number 1: People want to win
Metagame rule number 2: Something that wins is good, and people will attempt to counter it. The best things will thusly be what wins through most used counters to the strategy.
Metagame rule number 3: People will use the best things, the best things are now good, ignore what rule 2 said about things being good.
Unchained is bad QED[/quote:2y595dn8]
No bad, unplayable

[quote="Renji Asuka":1hyh87m4][quote="Sound4":1hyh87m4][quote="Renji Asuka":1hyh87m4]
Hand Traps don't help push for plays when going first. That is why they are bricks. You said that Unchained was a control deck, so by that logic, you want to go first, which makes hand traps less viable since they don't help you in setting up a board to actually control the opponent's plays.[/quote:1hyh87m4]
They are definitely not bricks going first. You clearly don't kniw much about this format. Those handraps are simply extra firms if disruption when you do your combo and end your turn. Plus yes Unchained is a control deck but traps don't do much against the Adventure Token decks so it isn't the most optimal.[/quote:1hyh87m4]
It's almost like you didn't read what I stated.

If they don't push for combo, they are bricks.

It's almost like you're being disingenuous.

The reason why the deck isn't represented btw. IS BECAUSE THE DECK IS TRASH.[/quote:1hyh87m4]
If you don't run enough going 2nd cards you will lose going 2nd and I already explained things like Dark ruler,Droplet and Evenly aren't that good in the main board. Plus what you said doesn't make much sense a lot of people playing the brave engine are playing hand traps since a lot of it is just is 1 or 2 card combos.
Is VW bad because it doesn't have much representation? No. Haven't you heard of an underrated deck.

[quote="Christen57":ozobuco3][quote="Sound4":ozobuco3][quote="Christen57":ozobuco3]

I guess I should've worded my statement better. What I meant to say was, it's hardly a good strategy, or even a good mindset, to rely in any way on your opponent "not knowing" your archetype. I like to always assume my opponents will know, or at least end up figuring out quickly, some of my cards, combos, and other lines of play I may have in mind.

Sure, an opponent not knowing Unchained will make 'em more likely to waste a hand trap, negation, or disruption or something, on the wrong card/effect, but the question is, does that small advantage outweigh the major advantage Unchained still has of too many of it's cards being bricks or -1 in card advantage and too little of it's cards being +1 in card advantage?



It should be clear now that his points are pretty much the same as mine and Renji Asuka's — that Unchained's weaknesses outweigh it's strengths and that you're better off switching to a stronger deck.



Yeah, I may have been judging these hand traps more on how well they worked in my competitive deck than in the deck(s) Sound4 was playing. In this current format, my competitive deck of choice is what people call a "Pile" deck — a deck revolving around not any specific archetype but some random but powerful engines thrown together that happen to synergize with one another. [url:ozobuco3]https://www.reddit.com/r/Yugioh101/comments/t9wg62/ive_heard_the_term_pile_deck_being_thrown_around/[/url:ozobuco3]

Pile decks allow room for creativity and variety, as different Pile decks can use different engine combinations. Some Pile decks like this one for example that somebody posted on ygoprodeck.com consist of a Rose Dragon engine, a Destroyer Phoenix Enforcer engine, an Adventurer Token engine, a Magicians' Souls engine, a P.U.N.K. engine, and a Small World engine, all put together to work in harmony.

My Pile deck utilizes the Destroyer Phoenix Enforcer engine (Fusion Destiny, Celestial, Dasher, and Verte Anaconda) for offense, a Mystic Mine engine (Mystic Mine, Demise of the Land, and Metaverse) for defense, and the Adventurer engine (Aramesir, Enchantress, Gryphon Rider, Fateful Adventure, and Dracoback) for support. However, instead of hand traps, I chose to max out on Lava Golem, Dark Ruler, Ra Sphere Mode, Alpha, Pankratops, and Lightning Storm. These cards proved to be better in a deck like mine because they synergized with my deck better than hand traps. Lava Golem and Sphere Mode, for example, both eat up my normal summon, while the Adventurer engine disallows my normal summoned monsters' effects, but those restrictions barely affect me since my deck hardly cares about normal summoning.

Unchained, however, relies far more on normal summoning, in order to begin any plays, than my deck does, making it far riskier to run board-breakers or the Adventurer engine in that deck, so, for Unchained, hand traps are probably indeed the best option. My only concern is, if Sound4's going to run hand traps, the only hand traps good running 3 of are the ones that aren't hard once per turn, are crazy powerful like how powerful Maxx "C" was when that card was still legal, or actually synergize with the deck, like how Nibiru often synergized with Rock decks since it could be searched off of Gallant Granite, or how Ash Blossom often synergized with Salamangreats due to being recyclable with Sunlight Wolf, or how Ghost Ogre often synergized with Psychic decks due to being searchable off of Emergency Teleport.

Now, earlier, I mentioned one major advantage a board-breaker like Dark Ruler No More or Lava Golem has over a hand trap: Usually, with a board-breaker (assuming you're going second of course), you have 6 chances to draw it whereas with a hand trap, you have only 5 chances. When going second, whatever hand trap you're running needs to be seen among your first 5 cards in your opening hand for you to be able to stop an opponent's combo. If you instead draw that hand trap during your turn as your 6th card, it'll likely be too late then as the opponent has already assembled their board. With a board-breaker, however, you can either have it in your opening hand among your 5 cards or draw it as your 6th card in your turn, making it more consistent and forgiving than a hand trap, which is especially important for Pile decks as Pile decks often exceed 40 cards in the main deck, hurting chances of seeing the hand trap(s) in the opening hand.

However, I forgot to mention 2 other major advantages a board-breaker tends to have over a hand trap. First, board-breakers are a bit harder to stop/counter than hand traps. Decks like Swordsoul or Mythical Beast, or decks that run Terrortop/Taketomborg and Small World, or the Adventurer Engine, will often have a negate ready by their 5th summon to stop Nibiru, Called by the Grave stops hand traps that put themselves in the grave to activate, Sauravis stops hand traps that target and is searchable off of Preparation of Rites, Dinosaur decks can use Lost World to put a token on the opponent's field to stop Gamma and Imperm, Warrior decks can use Aqua Dolphin (which is searchable with Neo Space Connector which is searchable with Reinforcement of the Army) to take out hand traps with low ATK, WATER decks have Deep Sea Minstrel which temporarily removes hand traps, and some decks run enough extenders to let them shrug off a hand trap or two and assemble a board regardless. Dark Ruler No More cares about none of this.

Second, when it comes to board-breakers, you get to wait until after the opponent has invested much of their hand into their combo before you begin investing your board-breakers and hand into answering their board. This is important because, with each card you see them play to assemble their board, you're getting more information on their cards and deck before they've gotten any information on your cards. With a hand trap, it's more of a gamble. If it's the first turn, you open up with Ash Blossom, your opponent's going first, and the first card they play is something like Quick Launch or Emergency Teleport, do you Ash that spell, or do you let it resolve and wait for them to play an even stronger card then Ash that? What if that Quick Launch/Emergency Teleport was their strongest card while the other cards in their hand were bricks or something and you now missed a golden opportunity to use your Ash? Keep in mind they haven't yet normal summoned or played any other cards, so what if you Ash that spell but it turns out they were just using that to bait out an Ash, and then they start normal summoning and playing their stronger card(s) you wish you saved your Ash for? Now you've given them crucial information about what you're playing before they've given you much information about what they're playing, putting yourself at a disadvantage, and, you wasted a hand trap, putting yourself further at a disadvantage.

In competitive yugioh, it's generally a good a idea to save your disruptions/board-breakers until the last moment in which you can and should use them, like how players would often flip Mystical Space Typhoon to destroy backrow in the end phase instead of the main phase, or use ATK-modifying effects in the damage step if possible, instead of the battle step. With an Ash Blossom, it's harder to determine when that "last moment in which you can and should use them" will be, but with board-breakers, it's easier to figure out when to use those — during your turn against an already-assembled board since you've already seen much of their cards and thus have enough information (on what the opponent's playing) to make an informed decision, whereas with hand traps, it's trickier because the opponent often hasn't yet played enough cards to give you such information for you to make an informed decision, meaning you'll have to guess if that card you wish to Ash is the best Ash-target at that moment or if the opponent just wants you to waste Ash on that card so they can then play their stronger card(s) without worrying about an Ash.
When I play a board-breaker knowing my opponent has already vomited their hand onto the field to do their combo to assemble that board, I'm playing that board-breaker knowing I most likely won't have to worry about any additional extenders or tricks up my opponents' sleeves for a while, but with a hand trap, I have to do this awkward guessing-game thing where I have to either use my hand trap immediately, hoping it's the right time to use it and that the opponent has no further extenders or stronger cards I would've wanted to use my hand trap on, or hold onto my hand trap, hoping my opponent doesn't seize the opportunity to bring out a negate such as Herald of the Arc Light or Apollousa afterwards to keep me from ever using my hand trap. If I guess wrong in either case, I'll most likely lose as my opponent will continue to build up their board until it's too difficult to break. This issue is less likely to occur when I rely on actual board-breakers, and more likely to occur when I rely on hand traps that stop the opponent from combo-ing off only if you guess correctly.[/quote:ozobuco3]
What do you mean too many of its cards are bricks? The only grckis disaster which you run 1 that is it.[/quote:ozobuco3]

I said too many of it's main deck cards are either bricks or -1 in card advantage, not just that too many of it's cards are bricks. This means many of Unchained's main deck cards are -1 in card advantage, and most of the ones that aren't are too often bricks. Abominable is a -1 because it requires you to lose a card to be special summoned then discard another card just to destroy an opponent's card, Aruha and Rakea are -1 in card advantage and don't do enough to make up for it, Escape of the Unchained is a -1 in card advantage, and so on.

Fir example, your opponent has Apollousa on the fiels. Your normal summon a monster abs activate its effect. Opponent negated with Apollousa you can chain ogre to destroy and your effect resolves. Handraps can be ysed on your opponent's turn it just has to be used smartly.

And I explained why they're harder to use "smartly" than board-breakers.

As itsmetristan says it is format reliant. Board breaking stuff was really good in the format which Swordsoul and Lyrilusc Tri Brigade were dominanting. Handraps aren't necessarily effective but if you play so many of them they become effective.

If they either synergize with your deck, or aren't hard once per turn making it safe to draw multiple copies of them, then yes, they should be effective and worth maxing out on. However, there are 2 things that hurt hand traps' "effectiveness" in a deck like Unchained. First, hand traps tend to synergize best in decks that either can easily search/recycle them, or focus on 1-card plays, allowing the rest of the deck to be filled with hand traps. Examples of the first category are Blue-Eyes which can search out Effect Veiler due to it being a level 1 light tuner, as well as Lyrilusc which can search out D.D. Crow due to it being a level 1 winged beast. Examples of the second category would be decks like Invoked, Dogmatika, and Salamangreat. These decks tend to use engines small enough to be able to fit plenty of hand traps.

Neither of these seem to be the case with Unchained, and the archetype (at least from what I've seen in your replays) requires a lot of space for starters and engine requirements as it requires combinations of specific Unchained cards in hand to start any plays, so there doesn't appear to be much room in the deck you can safely dedicate to hand traps.

This brings me to my second reason why the effectiveness of hand traps is hurt in Unchained: Unchained struggles to capitalize on boards it uses hand traps to weaken. If you're going second, the opponent tries to combo off, and you play, for example, an Ash Blossom against one of their cards, even if it turned out to be the correct card to Ash and causes them to have to end their turn, if you can't then either FTK/OTK them, or set up a formidable board of your own, when your turn comes, there's nothing stopping them from simply continuing their combo where they left off when their next turn comes, rendering your efforts to hand trap them futile. If you hand trap the opponent 2/3 times, you have to follow it up with either an OTK or a strong enough board of your own (neither of which Unchained can easily or consistently pull off) to keep them from just picking up where they left off.

This reveals, yet again, another major advantage board-breakers have over hand traps: If the opponent starts a combo intending to go through half their extra deck or something by the time the combo is done, if you use a hand trap to slow down the combo, you then have to worry about doing something in your turn to ensure they can't continue where they left off and vomit out their extra deck in their next turn, but with a board-breaker, you can let them vomit their resources onto the board, then you can break that board, and because they've already burned through much of their resources, it'll be harder for them to combo again.

Cars like Dark ruler no more, Forbidden Droplet and Evenly match aren't bad but it isn't like the format where you could just activate one of those cards and win the game. Like I said earlier a lot of people are activating things in SP making Dark ruler mit as good and droplet if your opponent has a massive board you have to sacrifice most of your zarss except probably one and then a lot if people have been setting up snow in GY so set your monster face down.

You're right about Forbidden Droplet and Evenly Matched. I used to run Evenly Matched in my Pile deck until I realized it wasn't doing enough to help so I took it out.[/quote:ozobuco3]
Read what I said to greg503. Plus say which cards are "bricks since you aren't. Plus drawing 2 of the same hand trap is not often and your point about how you should not max out on them is because they are once or tirn you can say the same about any other once or turn card. For example, Aluber is a once per turn effect you have 3 in your deck and you draw two and you can only use the effect once oer turn. Does that make aluber bad and not max out on? No. It is a card that you should play 3 of as you can search you branded fusion or your branded spells that you need.

Plus most of unchained combos are 2 card combos and has plenty of ways to search its cards it needs like through abomination prison etc. Plys the standard Unchained cards is only 21 carss which epis not much.3 rakea 3sarama 3 Aruba 2 abom 1 disaster 3 abomination prison 6 of the best unchained traps. Plus I the only deck that goes through half their extra deck is like infernobles. I have mot seen any other deck go through most of their resources turn one.

[quote="greg503":34rmkp8v][quote="Sound4":34rmkp8v][quote="Renji Asuka":34rmkp8v]
"It doesn't struggle against most decks if you play the Deck correctly. " Non argument, you can say that about any deck and it'd be true. That doesn't exactly show us or convince us that Unchained is good, fun fact, if it was, it'd be topping Konami events here and there. It doesn't.[/quote:34rmkp8v]
Again the Deck doesn't have much representation.[/quote:34rmkp8v]
And why doesn't it have much representation? That's right, because it's bad and doesn't win[/quote:34rmkp8v]
Is VW bad because it doesn't have much representation? No. Haven't you heard of underrated decks?

[quote="Sound4":qsagb98k][quote="Renji Asuka":qsagb98k][quote="Sound4":qsagb98k]
They are definitely not bricks going first. You clearly don't kniw much about this format. Those handraps are simply extra firms if disruption when you do your combo and end your turn. Plus yes Unchained is a control deck but traps don't do much against the Adventure Token decks so it isn't the most optimal.[/quote:qsagb98k]
It's almost like you didn't read what I stated.

If they don't push for combo, they are bricks.

It's almost like you're being disingenuous.

The reason why the deck isn't represented btw. IS BECAUSE THE DECK IS TRASH.[/quote:qsagb98k]
If you don't run enough going 2nd cards you will lose going 2nd and I already explained things like Dark ruler,Droplet and Evenly aren't that good in the main board. Plus what you said doesn't make much sense a lot of people playing the brave engine are playing hand traps since a lot of it is just is 1 or 2 card combos.[/quote:qsagb98k]

Do hand traps push for plays?

Yes or no?

No obviously, because of that they are bricks going first.

If you open up with all hand traps playing a control deck, your deck won't do a very good job at controlling the game.

Unchained sucks in the grind game, it can't generate advantage during the grind game, it can't even interrupt the opponent very well.

There is 3 kinds of decks in yugioh.

Stun, Control, and Aggro

Stun decks shut down the game entirely for the opponent. The epitome of "You can't play yugioh."

Control decks control the flow of the game. Control decks NEED to be able to generate advantage during a slower game state, especially against other control decks.

Aggro decks will push right through for the kill.

As for Combo Decks, they can fall in any of the above categories (very rarely stun). For example, I can use a Brave Engine, DPE Engine, Artifact Engine that would fall under control. Or I can use these engines for offensive power to fall under Aggro. Even Dinos can be seen as a Combo Aggro deck or a Combo Control Deck (pending on end board).

I can even use combo oriented decks to be a mix of control and aggro, which is typically midrange.

It's sad to see you don't understand these fundamentals for yugioh.

[quote="Sound4":71sw5pm8][quote="greg503":71sw5pm8][quote="Sound4":71sw5pm8]
Again the Deck doesn't have much representation.[/quote:71sw5pm8]
And why doesn't it have much representation? That's right, because it's bad and doesn't win[/quote:71sw5pm8]
Is VW bad because it doesn't have much representation? No. Haven't you heard of underrated decks?[/quote:71sw5pm8]
I can't believe you just compared VW (which was META when VFD was legal) to Unchained (that never appeared in the META scene) LMAO

[quote="Sound4":1ygjbfo6][quote="greg503":1ygjbfo6][quote="Sound4":1ygjbfo6]
Again the Deck doesn't have much representation.[/quote:1ygjbfo6]
And why doesn't it have much representation? That's right, because it's bad and doesn't win[/quote:1ygjbfo6]
Is VW bad because it doesn't have much representation? No. Haven't you heard of underrated decks?[/quote:1ygjbfo6]
VW has been good and meta, Unchained NEVER has.

bruh I haven't seen Dragon Ruler top in a while, it must be a shitty deck

[quote="Sound4":1z492kd1][quote="Christen57":1z492kd1][quote="Sound4":1z492kd1]
What do you mean too many of its cards are bricks? The only grckis disaster which you run 1 that is it.[/quote:1z492kd1]

I said too many of it's main deck cards are either bricks or -1 in card advantage, not just that too many of it's cards are bricks. This means many of Unchained's main deck cards are -1 in card advantage, and most of the ones that aren't are too often bricks. Abominable is a -1 because it requires you to lose a card to be special summoned then discard another card just to destroy an opponent's card, Aruha and Rakea are -1 in card advantage and don't do enough to make up for it, Escape of the Unchained is a -1 in card advantage, and so on.

Fir example, your opponent has Apollousa on the fiels. Your normal summon a monster abs activate its effect. Opponent negated with Apollousa you can chain ogre to destroy and your effect resolves. Handraps can be ysed on your opponent's turn it just has to be used smartly.

And I explained why they're harder to use "smartly" than board-breakers.

As itsmetristan says it is format reliant. Board breaking stuff was really good in the format which Swordsoul and Lyrilusc Tri Brigade were dominanting. Handraps aren't necessarily effective but if you play so many of them they become effective.

If they either synergize with your deck, or aren't hard once per turn making it safe to draw multiple copies of them, then yes, they should be effective and worth maxing out on. However, there are 2 things that hurt hand traps' "effectiveness" in a deck like Unchained. First, hand traps tend to synergize best in decks that either can easily search/recycle them, or focus on 1-card plays, allowing the rest of the deck to be filled with hand traps. Examples of the first category are Blue-Eyes which can search out Effect Veiler due to it being a level 1 light tuner, as well as Lyrilusc which can search out D.D. Crow due to it being a level 1 winged beast. Examples of the second category would be decks like Invoked, Dogmatika, and Salamangreat. These decks tend to use engines small enough to be able to fit plenty of hand traps.

Neither of these seem to be the case with Unchained, and the archetype (at least from what I've seen in your replays) requires a lot of space for starters and engine requirements as it requires combinations of specific Unchained cards in hand to start any plays, so there doesn't appear to be much room in the deck you can safely dedicate to hand traps.

This brings me to my second reason why the effectiveness of hand traps is hurt in Unchained: Unchained struggles to capitalize on boards it uses hand traps to weaken. If you're going second, the opponent tries to combo off, and you play, for example, an Ash Blossom against one of their cards, even if it turned out to be the correct card to Ash and causes them to have to end their turn, if you can't then either FTK/OTK them, or set up a formidable board of your own, when your turn comes, there's nothing stopping them from simply continuing their combo where they left off when their next turn comes, rendering your efforts to hand trap them futile. If you hand trap the opponent 2/3 times, you have to follow it up with either an OTK or a strong enough board of your own (neither of which Unchained can easily or consistently pull off) to keep them from just picking up where they left off.

This reveals, yet again, another major advantage board-breakers have over hand traps: If the opponent starts a combo intending to go through half their extra deck or something by the time the combo is done, if you use a hand trap to slow down the combo, you then have to worry about doing something in your turn to ensure they can't continue where they left off and vomit out their extra deck in their next turn, but with a board-breaker, you can let them vomit their resources onto the board, then you can break that board, and because they've already burned through much of their resources, it'll be harder for them to combo again.

Cars like Dark ruler no more, Forbidden Droplet and Evenly match aren't bad but it isn't like the format where you could just activate one of those cards and win the game. Like I said earlier a lot of people are activating things in SP making Dark ruler mit as good and droplet if your opponent has a massive board you have to sacrifice most of your zarss except probably one and then a lot if people have been setting up snow in GY so set your monster face down.

You're right about Forbidden Droplet and Evenly Matched. I used to run Evenly Matched in my Pile deck until I realized it wasn't doing enough to help so I took it out.[/quote:1z492kd1]
Read what I said to greg503. Plus say which cards are "bricks since you aren't.[/quote:1z492kd1]

Didn't you already point out Unchained's bricks? I don't think I need to repeat Unchained's bricks.

Plus drawing 2 of the same hand trap is not often and your point about how you should not max out on them is because they are once or tirn you can say the same about any other once or turn card. For example, Aluber is a once per turn effect you have 3 in your deck and you draw two and you can only use the effect once oer turn. Does that make aluber bad and not max out on? No. It is a card that you should play 3 of as you can search you branded fusion or your branded spells that you need.

Aluber the Jester of Despia is one of Branded Despia's starters that that deck uses to kick off it's combos. Of course you max out on those. Ash Blossom doesn't help you start or extend your combos the way Aluber does, making Ash Blossom harder to justify maxing out on.

Here's a short but nice article explaining these concepts in a bit more detail: [url:1z492kd1]https://atgn.com.au/just-chuck-it-in-an-in-depth-guide-to-the-benefits-of-archetype-mixing/[/url:1z492kd1]

Plus most of unchained combos are 2 card combos and has plenty of ways to search its cards it needs like through abomination prison etc.

All the more reason running these hand traps hurts Unchained, because now you have to worry about drawing too many hand traps and not enough of the appropriate cards required to begin your combo(s). This issue doesn't really exist in decks that focus more on 1-card combos than 2-card combos, because with 1-card-combo decks, you can draw any 1 of your starters in your opening hand and have the rest of the cards in that opening hand be hand traps.

Plys the standard Unchained cards is only 21 carss which epis not much.3 rakea 3sarama 3 Aruba 2 abom 1 disaster 3 abomination prison 6 of the best unchained traps. Plus I the only deck that goes through half their extra deck is like infernobles. I have mot seen any other deck go through most of their resources turn one.

You mind showing us a screenshot of your current decklist?

[quote="Renji Asuka":l0ch2xss][quote="Sound4":l0ch2xss][quote="greg503":l0ch2xss]
And why doesn't it have much representation? That's right, because it's bad and doesn't win[/quote:l0ch2xss]
Is VW bad because it doesn't have much representation? No. Haven't you heard of underrated decks?[/quote:l0ch2xss]
I can't believe you just compared VW (which was META when VFD was legal) to Unchained (that never appeared in the META scene) LMAO[/quote:l0ch2xss]
You missed the point I am saying that just because a deck does not have good representation doesn't mean it is bad.

[quote="greg503":2kwmzoxq][quote="Sound4":2kwmzoxq][quote="greg503":2kwmzoxq]
And why doesn't it have much representation? That's right, because it's bad and doesn't win[/quote:2kwmzoxq]
Is VW bad because it doesn't have much representation? No. Haven't you heard of underrated decks?[/quote:2kwmzoxq]
VW has been good and meta, Unchained NEVER has.[/quote:2kwmzoxq]
You missed the point. Just because a deck doesn't have good representation doesn't mean it is bad.

[quote="Sound4":4l79ut04][quote="greg503":4l79ut04][quote="Sound4":4l79ut04]
Is VW bad because it doesn't have much representation? No. Haven't you heard of underrated decks?[/quote:4l79ut04]
VW has been good and meta, Unchained NEVER has.[/quote:4l79ut04]
You missed the point. Just because a deck doesn't have good representation doesn't mean it is bad.[/quote:4l79ut04]
Your deck NEVER had good representation, it was ALWAYS bad

[quote="greg503":2urtru33][quote="Sound4":2urtru33][quote="greg503":2urtru33]
VW has been good and meta, Unchained NEVER has.[/quote:2urtru33]
You missed the point. Just because a deck doesn't have good representation doesn't mean it is bad.[/quote:2urtru33]
Your deck NEVER had good representation, it was ALWAYS bad[/quote:2urtru33]
Read what I said. You clearly didn't.

[quote="Christen57":3axmsomm][quote="Sound4":3axmsomm][quote="Christen57":3axmsomm]

I said too many of it's main deck cards are either bricks or -1 in card advantage, not just that too many of it's cards are bricks. This means many of Unchained's main deck cards are -1 in card advantage, and most of the ones that aren't are too often bricks. Abominable is a -1 because it requires you to lose a card to be special summoned then discard another card just to destroy an opponent's card, Aruha and Rakea are -1 in card advantage and don't do enough to make up for it, Escape of the Unchained is a -1 in card advantage, and so on.



And I explained why they're harder to use "smartly" than board-breakers.



If they either synergize with your deck, or aren't hard once per turn making it safe to draw multiple copies of them, then yes, they should be effective and worth maxing out on. However, there are 2 things that hurt hand traps' "effectiveness" in a deck like Unchained. First, hand traps tend to synergize best in decks that either can easily search/recycle them, or focus on 1-card plays, allowing the rest of the deck to be filled with hand traps. Examples of the first category are Blue-Eyes which can search out Effect Veiler due to it being a level 1 light tuner, as well as Lyrilusc which can search out D.D. Crow due to it being a level 1 winged beast. Examples of the second category would be decks like Invoked, Dogmatika, and Salamangreat. These decks tend to use engines small enough to be able to fit plenty of hand traps.

Neither of these seem to be the case with Unchained, and the archetype (at least from what I've seen in your replays) requires a lot of space for starters and engine requirements as it requires combinations of specific Unchained cards in hand to start any plays, so there doesn't appear to be much room in the deck you can safely dedicate to hand traps.

This brings me to my second reason why the effectiveness of hand traps is hurt in Unchained: Unchained struggles to capitalize on boards it uses hand traps to weaken. If you're going second, the opponent tries to combo off, and you play, for example, an Ash Blossom against one of their cards, even if it turned out to be the correct card to Ash and causes them to have to end their turn, if you can't then either FTK/OTK them, or set up a formidable board of your own, when your turn comes, there's nothing stopping them from simply continuing their combo where they left off when their next turn comes, rendering your efforts to hand trap them futile. If you hand trap the opponent 2/3 times, you have to follow it up with either an OTK or a strong enough board of your own (neither of which Unchained can easily or consistently pull off) to keep them from just picking up where they left off.

This reveals, yet again, another major advantage board-breakers have over hand traps: If the opponent starts a combo intending to go through half their extra deck or something by the time the combo is done, if you use a hand trap to slow down the combo, you then have to worry about doing something in your turn to ensure they can't continue where they left off and vomit out their extra deck in their next turn, but with a board-breaker, you can let them vomit their resources onto the board, then you can break that board, and because they've already burned through much of their resources, it'll be harder for them to combo again.



You're right about Forbidden Droplet and Evenly Matched. I used to run Evenly Matched in my Pile deck until I realized it wasn't doing enough to help so I took it out.[/quote:3axmsomm]
Read what I said to greg503. Plus say which cards are "bricks since you aren't.[/quote:3axmsomm]

Didn't you already point out Unchained's bricks? I don't think I need to repeat Unchained's bricks.

Plus drawing 2 of the same hand trap is not often and your point about how you should not max out on them is because they are once or tirn you can say the same about any other once or turn card. For example, Aluber is a once per turn effect you have 3 in your deck and you draw two and you can only use the effect once oer turn. Does that make aluber bad and not max out on? No. It is a card that you should play 3 of as you can search you branded fusion or your branded spells that you need.

Aluber the Jester of Despia is one of Branded Despia's starters that that deck uses to kick off it's combos. Of course you max out on those. Ash Blossom doesn't help you start or extend your combos the way Aluber does, making Ash Blossom harder to justify maxing out on.

Here's a short but nice article explaining these concepts in a bit more detail: [url:3axmsomm]https://atgn.com.au/just-chuck-it-in-an-in-depth-guide-to-the-benefits-of-archetype-mixing/[/url:3axmsomm]

Plus most of unchained combos are 2 card combos and has plenty of ways to search its cards it needs like through abomination prison etc.

All the more reason running these hand traps hurts Unchained, because now you have to worry about drawing too many hand traps and not enough of the appropriate cards required to begin your combo(s). This issue doesn't really exist in decks that focus more on 1-card combos than 2-card combos, because with 1-card-combo decks, you can draw any 1 of your starters in your opening hand and have the rest of the cards in that opening hand be hand traps.

Plys the standard Unchained cards is only 21 carss which epis not much.3 rakea 3sarama 3 Aruba 2 abom 1 disaster 3 abomination prison 6 of the best unchained traps. Plus I the only deck that goes through half their extra deck is like infernobles. I have mot seen any other deck go through most of their resources turn one.

You mind showing us a screenshot of your current decklist?[/quote:3axmsomm]
When did I say Unchained bricks? If you are referring to the "better Shuffling System" thread thatk wasn't Unchained being an inconsistent deck but just the shuffling system in DB being bad. Read properly.

Read what I said to Renji Asuka. If you aren't playing enough going 2nd cards then you are going to lose going 2nd. I already explained why the board breaking cards aren't as good as you think.

Plus this is my deck list.
https://www.duelingbook.com/deck?id=6962272

[quote="Sound4":1rq1g3uz][quote="Renji Asuka":1rq1g3uz][quote="Sound4":1rq1g3uz]
Is VW bad because it doesn't have much representation? No. Haven't you heard of underrated decks?[/quote:1rq1g3uz]
I can't believe you just compared VW (which was META when VFD was legal) to Unchained (that never appeared in the META scene) LMAO[/quote:1rq1g3uz]
You missed the point I am saying that just because a deck does not have good representation doesn't mean it is bad.[/quote:1rq1g3uz]
No, you missed the point. You compared a META deck to Unchained as an argument to why Unchained is good because you felt like Virtual World is underrepresented.

Unchained isn't good which is why it doesn't have a lot of people playing the deck. If it was good, it'd had topped a regionals at the very least, it hasn't.

[quote="Sound4":5k661uze][quote="greg503":5k661uze][quote="Sound4":5k661uze]
You missed the point. Just because a deck doesn't have good representation doesn't mean it is bad.[/quote:5k661uze]
Your deck NEVER had good representation, it was ALWAYS bad[/quote:5k661uze]
Read what I said. You clearly didn't.[/quote:5k661uze]
No u

[quote="Sound4":2phj95sm][quote="Christen57":2phj95sm][quote="Sound4":2phj95sm]
Read what I said to greg503. Plus say which cards are "bricks since you aren't.[/quote:2phj95sm]

Didn't you already point out Unchained's bricks? I don't think I need to repeat Unchained's bricks.

Plus drawing 2 of the same hand trap is not often and your point about how you should not max out on them is because they are once or tirn you can say the same about any other once or turn card. For example, Aluber is a once per turn effect you have 3 in your deck and you draw two and you can only use the effect once oer turn. Does that make aluber bad and not max out on? No. It is a card that you should play 3 of as you can search you branded fusion or your branded spells that you need.

Aluber the Jester of Despia is one of Branded Despia's starters that that deck uses to kick off it's combos. Of course you max out on those. Ash Blossom doesn't help you start or extend your combos the way Aluber does, making Ash Blossom harder to justify maxing out on.

Here's a short but nice article explaining these concepts in a bit more detail: [url:2phj95sm]https://atgn.com.au/just-chuck-it-in-an-in-depth-guide-to-the-benefits-of-archetype-mixing/[/url:2phj95sm]

Plus most of unchained combos are 2 card combos and has plenty of ways to search its cards it needs like through abomination prison etc.

All the more reason running these hand traps hurts Unchained, because now you have to worry about drawing too many hand traps and not enough of the appropriate cards required to begin your combo(s). This issue doesn't really exist in decks that focus more on 1-card combos than 2-card combos, because with 1-card-combo decks, you can draw any 1 of your starters in your opening hand and have the rest of the cards in that opening hand be hand traps.

Plys the standard Unchained cards is only 21 carss which epis not much.3 rakea 3sarama 3 Aruba 2 abom 1 disaster 3 abomination prison 6 of the best unchained traps. Plus I the only deck that goes through half their extra deck is like infernobles. I have mot seen any other deck go through most of their resources turn one.

You mind showing us a screenshot of your current decklist?[/quote:2phj95sm]
When did I say Unchained bricks? If you are referring to the "better Shuffling System" thread thatk wasn't Unchained being an inconsistent deck but just the shuffling system in DB being bad. Read properly.

Read what I said to Renji Asuka. If you aren't playing enough going 2nd cards then you are going to lose going 2nd. I already explained why the board breaking cards aren't as good as you think.

Plus this is my deck list.
[url:2phj95sm]https://www.duelingbook.com/deck?id=6962272[/url:2phj95sm][/quote:2phj95sm]

You didn't say Unchained bricks. You said Unchained has bricks such as Unchained Soul of Disaster, the card you run, while I talked about the rest of Unchained's -1s in card advantage.

[url:2phj95sm]https://imgur.com/nwmkYAE[/url:2phj95sm]
Replace 2 of the Ghost Belles (and probably 1 of the Ash Blossoms as well) with D.D. Crow, and replace (another) 1 of the Ash Blossoms with either a Ghost Ogre or Ghost Mourner.

[quote="Renji Asuka":2fu4fga1][quote="Sound4":2fu4fga1][quote="Renji Asuka":2fu4fga1]
I can't believe you just compared VW (which was META when VFD was legal) to Unchained (that never appeared in the META scene) LMAO[/quote:2fu4fga1]
You missed the point I am saying that just because a deck does not have good representation doesn't mean it is bad.[/quote:2fu4fga1]
No, you missed the point. You compared a META deck to Unchained as an argument to why Unchained is good because you felt like Virtual World is underrepresented.

Unchained isn't good which is why it doesn't have a lot of people playing the deck. If it was good, it'd had topped a regionals at the very least, it hasn't.[/quote:2fu4fga1]
The point was that just because a deck doesn't have good representation doesn't mean it is bad. Plus VW isn't meta because Desires was limited but now it is at 2 so it might become a tier 1 deck soon. Plus here is a person topping with unchained at a tournament.
https://youtu.be/TFytbHzbC8I

[quote="Christen57":r3ws05t0][quote="Sound4":r3ws05t0][quote="Christen57":r3ws05t0]

Didn't you already point out Unchained's bricks? I don't think I need to repeat Unchained's bricks.



Aluber the Jester of Despia is one of Branded Despia's starters that that deck uses to kick off it's combos. Of course you max out on those. Ash Blossom doesn't help you start or extend your combos the way Aluber does, making Ash Blossom harder to justify maxing out on.

Here's a short but nice article explaining these concepts in a bit more detail: [url:r3ws05t0]https://atgn.com.au/just-chuck-it-in-an-in-depth-guide-to-the-benefits-of-archetype-mixing/[/url:r3ws05t0]



All the more reason running these hand traps hurts Unchained, because now you have to worry about drawing too many hand traps and not enough of the appropriate cards required to begin your combo(s). This issue doesn't really exist in decks that focus more on 1-card combos than 2-card combos, because with 1-card-combo decks, you can draw any 1 of your starters in your opening hand and have the rest of the cards in that opening hand be hand traps.



You mind showing us a screenshot of your current decklist?[/quote:r3ws05t0]
When did I say Unchained bricks? If you are referring to the "better Shuffling System" thread thatk wasn't Unchained being an inconsistent deck but just the shuffling system in DB being bad. Read properly.

Read what I said to Renji Asuka. If you aren't playing enough going 2nd cards then you are going to lose going 2nd. I already explained why the board breaking cards aren't as good as you think.

Plus this is my deck list.
[url:r3ws05t0]https://www.duelingbook.com/deck?id=6962272[/url:r3ws05t0][/quote:r3ws05t0]

You didn't say Unchained bricks. You said Unchained has bricks such as Unchained Soul of Disaster, the card you run, while I talked about the rest of Unchained's -1s in card advantage.

[url:r3ws05t0]https://imgur.com/nwmkYAE[/url:r3ws05t0]
Replace 2 of the Ghost Belles (and probably 1 of the Ash Blossoms as well) with D.D. Crow, and replace (another) 1 of the Ash Blossoms with either a Ghost Ogre or Ghost Mourner.[/quote:r3ws05t0]
You basically ignored what I said. You said that a good amount Unchained cards are bricks. I was asking fir you which cards are bricks and you failed to do so.

Plus why would I replace the two best handraps of this formats with not good ones. Ogre is terrible currently and dd crow is too situational.

[quote="greg503":9gz0txu9][quote="Sound4":9gz0txu9][quote="greg503":9gz0txu9]
Your deck NEVER had good representation, it was ALWAYS bad[/quote:9gz0txu9]
Read what I said. You clearly didn't.[/quote:9gz0txu9]
No u[/quote:9gz0txu9]
You missed the point.

[quote="Sound4":28nmnjku][quote="greg503":28nmnjku][quote="Sound4":28nmnjku]
Read what I said. You clearly didn't.[/quote:28nmnjku]
No u[/quote:28nmnjku]
You missed the point.[/quote:28nmnjku]
And you're huffing more copium than people who thought they would hit the Adventurer package this list

[quote="Sound4":w4ycliwp][quote="greg503":w4ycliwp][quote="Sound4":w4ycliwp]
Read what I said. You clearly didn't.[/quote:w4ycliwp]
No u[/quote:w4ycliwp]
You missed the point.[/quote:w4ycliwp]
No u

[quote="Sound4":xsnfu8dj][quote="Christen57":xsnfu8dj][quote="Sound4":xsnfu8dj]
When did I say Unchained bricks? If you are referring to the "better Shuffling System" thread thatk wasn't Unchained being an inconsistent deck but just the shuffling system in DB being bad. Read properly.

Read what I said to Renji Asuka. If you aren't playing enough going 2nd cards then you are going to lose going 2nd. I already explained why the board breaking cards aren't as good as you think.

Plus this is my deck list.
[url:xsnfu8dj]https://www.duelingbook.com/deck?id=6962272[/url:xsnfu8dj][/quote:xsnfu8dj]

You didn't say Unchained bricks. You said Unchained has bricks such as Unchained Soul of Disaster, the card you run, while I talked about the rest of Unchained's -1s in card advantage.

[url:xsnfu8dj]https://imgur.com/nwmkYAE[/url:xsnfu8dj]
Replace 2 of the Ghost Belles (and probably 1 of the Ash Blossoms as well) with D.D. Crow, and replace (another) 1 of the Ash Blossoms with either a Ghost Ogre or Ghost Mourner.[/quote:xsnfu8dj]
You basically ignored what I said. You said that a good amount Unchained cards are bricks. I was asking fir you which cards are bricks and you failed to do so.[/quote:xsnfu8dj]

Bricks OR -1s in card advantage, not JUST bricks.

[quote="Sound4":3243zwyt][quote="Renji Asuka":3243zwyt][quote="Sound4":3243zwyt]
You missed the point I am saying that just because a deck does not have good representation doesn't mean it is bad.[/quote:3243zwyt]
No, you missed the point. You compared a META deck to Unchained as an argument to why Unchained is good because you felt like Virtual World is underrepresented.

Unchained isn't good which is why it doesn't have a lot of people playing the deck. If it was good, it'd had topped a regionals at the very least, it hasn't.[/quote:3243zwyt]
The point was that just because a deck doesn't have good representation doesn't mean it is bad. Plus VW isn't meta because Desires was limited but now it is at 2 so it might become a tier 1 deck soon. Plus here is a person topping with unchained at a tournament.
https://youtu.be/TFytbHzbC8I[/quote:3243zwyt]
I never said VW was T1, what the actual fuck are you smoking? You still compared a deck that WAS META to your shitty Unchained deck that NEVER seen competitive play, let alone top ANY MAJOR EVENT.

[quote="Renji Asuka":oldoidfu][quote="Sound4":oldoidfu][quote="Renji Asuka":oldoidfu]
No, you missed the point. You compared a META deck to Unchained as an argument to why Unchained is good because you felt like Virtual World is underrepresented.

Unchained isn't good which is why it doesn't have a lot of people playing the deck. If it was good, it'd had topped a regionals at the very least, it hasn't.[/quote:oldoidfu]
The point was that just because a deck doesn't have good representation doesn't mean it is bad. Plus VW isn't meta because Desires was limited but now it is at 2 so it might become a tier 1 deck soon. Plus here is a person topping with unchained at a tournament.
https://youtu.be/TFytbHzbC8I[/quote:oldoidfu]
I never said VW was T1, what the actual fuck are you smoking? You still compared a deck that WAS META to your shitty Unchained deck that NEVER seen competitive play, let alone top ANY MAJOR EVENT.[/quote:oldoidfu]
*Multiple major events with high representation. Remote Duels count, but 1 top 16 is a fluke

[quote="greg503":2uf2yxgf][quote="Renji Asuka":2uf2yxgf][quote="Sound4":2uf2yxgf]
The point was that just because a deck doesn't have good representation doesn't mean it is bad. Plus VW isn't meta because Desires was limited but now it is at 2 so it might become a tier 1 deck soon. Plus here is a person topping with unchained at a tournament.
https://youtu.be/TFytbHzbC8I[/quote:2uf2yxgf]
I never said VW was T1, what the actual fuck are you smoking? You still compared a deck that WAS META to your shitty Unchained deck that NEVER seen competitive play, let alone top ANY MAJOR EVENT.[/quote:2uf2yxgf]
*Multiple major events with high representation. Remote Duels count, but 1 top 16 is a fluke[/quote:2uf2yxgf]
I'd normally agree, but if the deck does top 1 event, more people would try it out that person's build and it could see more tops. Doesn't happen often though. I think the last time something like that happened was HAT format or Dark Synchro.

[quote="Renji Asuka":2gcn9hpn][quote="Sound4":2gcn9hpn][quote="Renji Asuka":2gcn9hpn]
No, you missed the point. You compared a META deck to Unchained as an argument to why Unchained is good because you felt like Virtual World is underrepresented.

Unchained isn't good which is why it doesn't have a lot of people playing the deck. If it was good, it'd had topped a regionals at the very least, it hasn't.[/quote:2gcn9hpn]
The point was that just because a deck doesn't have good representation doesn't mean it is bad. Plus VW isn't meta because Desires was limited but now it is at 2 so it might become a tier 1 deck soon. Plus here is a person topping with unchained at a tournament.
https://youtu.be/TFytbHzbC8I[/quote:2gcn9hpn]
I never said VW was T1, what the actual fuck are you smoking? You still compared a deck that WAS META to your shitty Unchained deck that NEVER seen competitive play, let alone top ANY MAJOR EVENT.[/quote:2gcn9hpn]
I just showed a person topping with unchained. Yet you say no one tops with Unchained or plays it.

[quote="greg503":1pr1lryh][quote="Renji Asuka":1pr1lryh][quote="Sound4":1pr1lryh]
The point was that just because a deck doesn't have good representation doesn't mean it is bad. Plus VW isn't meta because Desires was limited but now it is at 2 so it might become a tier 1 deck soon. Plus here is a person topping with unchained at a tournament.
https://youtu.be/TFytbHzbC8I[/quote:1pr1lryh]
I never said VW was T1, what the actual fuck are you smoking? You still compared a deck that WAS META to your shitty Unchained deck that NEVER seen competitive play, let alone top ANY MAJOR EVENT.[/quote:1pr1lryh]
*Multiple major events with high representation. Remote Duels count, but 1 top 16 is a fluke[/quote:1pr1lryh]
They were multiple top decks in there. So no it wasn't a "fluke". He was a good pilot and knew how to play correctly and also playing cards which would probably end an opponents turn.

[quote="Sound4":1a1z9365][quote="Renji Asuka":1a1z9365][quote="Sound4":1a1z9365]
The point was that just because a deck doesn't have good representation doesn't mean it is bad. Plus VW isn't meta because Desires was limited but now it is at 2 so it might become a tier 1 deck soon. Plus here is a person topping with unchained at a tournament.
https://youtu.be/TFytbHzbC8I[/quote:1a1z9365]
I never said VW was T1, what the actual fuck are you smoking? You still compared a deck that WAS META to your shitty Unchained deck that NEVER seen competitive play, let alone top ANY MAJOR EVENT.[/quote:1a1z9365]
I just showed a person topping with unchained. Yet you say no one tops with Unchained or plays it.[/quote:1a1z9365]
Even a broken clock gives the correct time twice a day.

[quote="Christen57":e9x2enix][quote="Sound4":e9x2enix][quote="Christen57":e9x2enix]

You didn't say Unchained bricks. You said Unchained has bricks such as Unchained Soul of Disaster, the card you run, while I talked about the rest of Unchained's -1s in card advantage.

[url:e9x2enix]https://imgur.com/nwmkYAE[/url:e9x2enix]
Replace 2 of the Ghost Belles (and probably 1 of the Ash Blossoms as well) with D.D. Crow, and replace (another) 1 of the Ash Blossoms with either a Ghost Ogre or Ghost Mourner.[/quote:e9x2enix]
You basically ignored what I said. You said that a good amount Unchained cards are bricks. I was asking fir you which cards are bricks and you failed to do so.[/quote:e9x2enix]

Bricks OR -1s in card advantage, not JUST bricks.[/quote:e9x2enix]
How can they be - 1 in card advantage when you gain an a monster on top of what you already summoned by destroying an Unchained monster, spell or trap. You have still not told me what are the bricks in the Deck except disaster which I pointed out.

[quote="Lil Oldman":2qwwowc6][quote="Sound4":2qwwowc6][quote="greg503":2qwwowc6]
No u[/quote:2qwwowc6]
You missed the point.[/quote:2qwwowc6]
No u[/quote:2qwwowc6]
What point have I missed?

[quote="Christen57":33xvpqaf][quote="Sound4":33xvpqaf][quote="Christen57":33xvpqaf]

You didn't say Unchained bricks. You said Unchained has bricks such as Unchained Soul of Disaster, the card you run, while I talked about the rest of Unchained's -1s in card advantage.

[url:33xvpqaf]https://imgur.com/nwmkYAE[/url:33xvpqaf]
Replace 2 of the Ghost Belles (and probably 1 of the Ash Blossoms as well) with D.D. Crow, and replace (another) 1 of the Ash Blossoms with either a Ghost Ogre or Ghost Mourner.[/quote:33xvpqaf]
You basically ignored what I said. You said that a good amount Unchained cards are bricks. I was asking fir you which cards are bricks and you failed to do so.[/quote:33xvpqaf]

Bricks OR -1s in card advantage, not JUST bricks.[/quote:33xvpqaf]
Plus would you mind showing us your decklist post banlist?

[quote="Sound4":54l0fpfp][quote="Lil Oldman":54l0fpfp][quote="Sound4":54l0fpfp]
You missed the point.[/quote:54l0fpfp]
No u[/quote:54l0fpfp]
What point have I missed?[/quote:54l0fpfp]
That your 21 card core relies exclusively on being destroyed to do things, and only puts up 2 in-archtype disruptions, one of which is neg

[quote="Sound4":1iojtxz8][quote="Renji Asuka":1iojtxz8][quote="Sound4":1iojtxz8]
The point was that just because a deck doesn't have good representation doesn't mean it is bad. Plus VW isn't meta because Desires was limited but now it is at 2 so it might become a tier 1 deck soon. Plus here is a person topping with unchained at a tournament.
https://youtu.be/TFytbHzbC8I[/quote:1iojtxz8]
I never said VW was T1, what the actual fuck are you smoking? You still compared a deck that WAS META to your shitty Unchained deck that NEVER seen competitive play, let alone top ANY MAJOR EVENT.[/quote:1iojtxz8]
I just showed a person topping with unchained. Yet you say no one tops with Unchained or plays it.[/quote:1iojtxz8]
Which circles back to the argument we already used.

ANY DECK CAN BEAT A TOP TIER DECK EVERY ONCE IN AWHILE.

Stop using anecdotes to support your claim.

[quote="Renji Asuka":3jey80fa][quote="Sound4":3jey80fa][quote="Renji Asuka":3jey80fa]
I never said VW was T1, what the actual fuck are you smoking? You still compared a deck that WAS META to your shitty Unchained deck that NEVER seen competitive play, let alone top ANY MAJOR EVENT.[/quote:3jey80fa]
I just showed a person topping with unchained. Yet you say no one tops with Unchained or plays it.[/quote:3jey80fa]
Which circles back to the argument we already used.

ANY DECK CAN BEAT A TOP TIER DECK EVERY ONCE IN AWHILE.

Stop using anecdotes to support your claim.[/quote:3jey80fa]
"A" the person topping was beating multiple top tier decks with unchained consistently not just one but multiple.

[quote="greg503":j29hzsu1][quote="Sound4":j29hzsu1][quote="Lil Oldman":j29hzsu1]
No u[/quote:j29hzsu1]
What point have I missed?[/quote:j29hzsu1]
That your 21 card core relies exclusively on being destroyed to do things, and only puts up 2 in-archtype disruptions, one of which is neg[/quote:j29hzsu1]
Yes the Deck does mostly rely on destruction but to gets its effects but most decks destroy in order to get monsters off of the field. It is also controls the board very well.

> 2 field disruptions
> Cringe grindgame
> controls the field
Kekw

The unchained guy topped off of the back of Ice Dragon's Prison and D Shifter, Floowandereeze can just do that better now

[quote="Sound4":dmde0q6v][quote="Renji Asuka":dmde0q6v][quote="Sound4":dmde0q6v]
I just showed a person topping with unchained. Yet you say no one tops with Unchained or plays it.[/quote:dmde0q6v]
Which circles back to the argument we already used.

ANY DECK CAN BEAT A TOP TIER DECK EVERY ONCE IN AWHILE.

Stop using anecdotes to support your claim.[/quote:dmde0q6v]
"A" the person topping was beating multiple top tier decks with unchained consistently not just one but multiple.[/quote:dmde0q6v]
Did I stutter?

[quote="Renji Asuka":2uh490p2][quote="Sound4":2uh490p2][quote="Renji Asuka":2uh490p2]
Which circles back to the argument we already used.

ANY DECK CAN BEAT A TOP TIER DECK EVERY ONCE IN AWHILE.

Stop using anecdotes to support your claim.[/quote:2uh490p2]
"A" the person topping was beating multiple top tier decks with unchained consistently not just one but multiple.[/quote:2uh490p2]
Did I stutter?[/quote:2uh490p2]
What do you mean?

[quote="greg503":2e3og11j]The unchained guy topped off of the back of Ice Dragon's Prison and D Shifter, Floowandereeze can just do that better now[/quote:2e3og11j]
Floowandereeze don't play ice dragon's prison.

[quote="Sound4":bvykfc43][quote="Renji Asuka":bvykfc43][quote="Sound4":bvykfc43]
"A" the person topping was beating multiple top tier decks with unchained consistently not just one but multiple.[/quote:bvykfc43]
Did I stutter?[/quote:bvykfc43]
What do you mean?[/quote:bvykfc43]
That that top proves nothing

[quote="Sound4":yr1gwp6h][quote="Renji Asuka":yr1gwp6h][quote="Sound4":yr1gwp6h]
"A" the person topping was beating multiple top tier decks with unchained consistently not just one but multiple.[/quote:yr1gwp6h]
Did I stutter?[/quote:yr1gwp6h]
What do you mean?[/quote:yr1gwp6h]
It's a non argument as I already covered that, which you seem to ignore. I'm not going to repeat my arguments to you.

[quote="Renji Asuka":ien34vwv][quote="Sound4":ien34vwv][quote="Renji Asuka":ien34vwv]
Did I stutter?[/quote:ien34vwv]
What do you mean?[/quote:ien34vwv]
It's a non argument as I already covered that, which you seem to ignore. I'm not going to repeat my arguments to you.[/quote:ien34vwv]
You said "a" as in he beat one top tier deck but he was beating multiple top tier decks. Your post does not answer my point.

[quote="greg503":2dpsvi2u][quote="Sound4":2dpsvi2u][quote="Renji Asuka":2dpsvi2u]
Did I stutter?[/quote:2dpsvi2u]
What do you mean?[/quote:2dpsvi2u]
That that top proves nothing[/quote:2dpsvi2u]
How? Explain

Okay, so the crux of your argument Sound has been "a good pilot can bring the most outta a deck". No shit, Sherlock. This applies to ANY deck in the game.

Also, yes Coder is a good Unchained pilot but 1 event top does not prove its status as a meta or more than a rogue deck. Anyone can have a good run at a tournament, the meta and top decks are defined by how consistenrly they top.

I want to see Unchained play against Splight

[quote="Sound4":he4d8gfh][quote="greg503":he4d8gfh][quote="Sound4":he4d8gfh]
What do you mean?[/quote:he4d8gfh]
That that top proves nothing[/quote:he4d8gfh]
How? Explain[/quote:he4d8gfh]
"A broken clock is right twice a day"
Meaning:
The phrase even a broken clock is right twice a day means that occasionally, even [thing] considered unreliable can [do what it should/what's correct].

Note: This phrase is also said as ‘even a stopped clock is right twice a day.’ (The word ‘broken’ is sometimes substituted for the word ‘stopped.’)

Origin Of ‘Even a Broken Clock Is Right Twice a Day’
A broken clock is obviously going to be unreliable, as it cannot properly tell you the time. So whenever you look at it, the time it shows will be wrong. Well, mostly, because even a busted clock that has its minute and hour hands stuck in place will still be right twice a day, hence the clock is correct on occasion. This is comparable to a person who, like a broken clock (in that they often give wrong or unreliable information about things), even they can still be correct at times.
This phrase goes back to at least the early 18th century. It was used in a magazine called The Spectator, by Joseph Addison and Richard Steele, from the year 1711:

“If instead of running after the mode, they would continue fixed in one certain habit, the mode would come time or other overtake them, as a clock that stands still is sure to point right once in twelve hours.”

[quote="Sound4":1yvv9yn2][quote="Renji Asuka":1yvv9yn2][quote="Sound4":1yvv9yn2]
What do you mean?[/quote:1yvv9yn2]
It's a non argument as I already covered that, which you seem to ignore. I'm not going to repeat my arguments to you.[/quote:1yvv9yn2]
You said "a" as in he beat one top tier deck but he was beating multiple top tier decks. Your post does not answer my point.[/quote:1yvv9yn2]
Did I stutter?

[quote="Renji Asuka":1738hvw5][quote="Sound4":1738hvw5][quote="Renji Asuka":1738hvw5]
It's a non argument as I already covered that, which you seem to ignore. I'm not going to repeat my arguments to you.[/quote:1738hvw5]
You said "a" as in he beat one top tier deck but he was beating multiple top tier decks. Your post does not answer my point.[/quote:1738hvw5]
Did I stutter?[/quote:1738hvw5]
Nice way to avoid an argument. So I assuming that you have no response.

[quote="ScottyAdams":1lzlfxl5]Okay, so the crux of your argument Sound has been "a good pilot can bring the most outta a deck". No shit, Sherlock. This applies to ANY deck in the game.

Also, yes Coder is a good Unchained pilot but 1 event top does not prove its status as a meta or more than a rogue deck. Anyone can have a good run at a tournament, the meta and top decks are defined by how consistenrly they top.[/quote:1lzlfxl5]
The Deck just doesn't have good representation. Also yes the top does mean something especially when Christen57, Greg503 and Renji Asuka were all saying unchained was bad and can't top outside of a locals. Once I showed the proof they had no response.

[quote="Lil Oldman":2s98es6o]I want to see Unchained play against Splight[/quote:2s98es6o]
That is in the OCG

[quote="Sound4":19gpzie5][quote="Lil Oldman":19gpzie5]I want to see Unchained play against Splight[/quote:19gpzie5]
That is in the OCG[/quote:19gpzie5]

Splight will come in the TCG soon enough.

[quote="Sound4":3fhtrzt4][quote="Lil Oldman":3fhtrzt4]I want to see Unchained play against Splight[/quote:3fhtrzt4]
That is in the OCG[/quote:3fhtrzt4]
Nice argument avoidance.

[quote="Sound4":2zku22lj][quote="Renji Asuka":2zku22lj][quote="Sound4":2zku22lj]
You said "a" as in he beat one top tier deck but he was beating multiple top tier decks. Your post does not answer my point.[/quote:2zku22lj]
Did I stutter?[/quote:2zku22lj]
Nice way to avoid an argument. So I assuming that you have no response.[/quote:2zku22lj]
To avoid an argument, you first have to actually make one

[quote="Sound4":2ng6rh2m][quote="ScottyAdams":2ng6rh2m]Okay, so the crux of your argument Sound has been "a good pilot can bring the most outta a deck". No shit, Sherlock. This applies to ANY deck in the game.

Also, yes Coder is a good Unchained pilot but 1 event top does not prove its status as a meta or more than a rogue deck. Anyone can have a good run at a tournament, the meta and top decks are defined by how consistenrly they top.[/quote:2ng6rh2m]
The Deck just doesn't have good representation. Also yes the top does mean something especially when Christen57, Greg503 and Renji Asuka were all saying unchained was bad and can't top outside of a locals. Once I showed the proof they had no response.[/quote:2ng6rh2m]
Repeat after me: Meta game rule 1: The more something is used in competitive play, especially without budget/supply/time restrictions, the more likely it is to be actually good. When something sees almost little to no representation in competitive play, it is bad.
Thus, Unchained is bad until multiple players top with it, or many players enter multiple reputable tourneys with it, which won't happen with the way the archtype is now

[quote="Sound4":1xd1b322][quote="Renji Asuka":1xd1b322][quote="Sound4":1xd1b322]
You said "a" as in he beat one top tier deck but he was beating multiple top tier decks. Your post does not answer my point.[/quote:1xd1b322]
Did I stutter?[/quote:1xd1b322]
Nice way to avoid an argument. So I assuming that you have no response.[/quote:1xd1b322]
You keep bringing up arguments that were already covered and tried to again.

So shut your bitch ass up.

Guys, you know he's just going to continue ignoring every argument you make, and then pretend like you haven't said anything, right

[quote="troglyte":31v9l6an]Guys, you know he's just going to continue ignoring every argument you make, and then project his own illiteracy onto you, right?[/quote:31v9l6an]
True, but I'd rather deal with this drama rather than another politically heavy debate

[quote="troglyte":1jl01sa0]Guys, you know he's just going to continue ignoring every argument you make, and then pretend like you haven't said anything, right[/quote:1jl01sa0]
I'm just sick of the notifications tbh.

[quote="Sound4":1hgynz21][quote="ScottyAdams":1hgynz21]Okay, so the crux of your argument Sound has been "a good pilot can bring the most outta a deck". No shit, Sherlock. This applies to ANY deck in the game.

Also, yes Coder is a good Unchained pilot but 1 event top does not prove its status as a meta or more than a rogue deck. Anyone can have a good run at a tournament, the meta and top decks are defined by how consistenrly they top.[/quote:1hgynz21]
The Deck just doesn't have good representation. Also yes the top does mean something especially when Christen57, Greg503 and Renji Asuka were all saying unchained was bad and can't top outside of a locals. Once I showed the proof they had no response.[/quote:1hgynz21]

Unchained isn't a "good" deck (it's not bad either), nor is it meta. That's perfectly okay tho. It's about being realistic with the deck and understanding its limitations. Saying "it just doesn't have enough representation" is an indication the deck likely isn't up to snuff at the top level. 1 top can easily be seen as an outlier - consistency *among other things* is what separates the top decks and those that see consistent high level success from the other decks.

[quote="Sound4":2via5zc4][quote="ScottyAdams":2via5zc4]Okay, so the crux of your argument Sound has been "a good pilot can bring the most outta a deck". No shit, Sherlock. This applies to ANY deck in the game.

Also, yes Coder is a good Unchained pilot but 1 event top does not prove its status as a meta or more than a rogue deck. Anyone can have a good run at a tournament, the meta and top decks are defined by how consistenrly they top.[/quote:2via5zc4]
The Deck just doesn't have good representation. Also yes the top does mean something especially when Christen57, Greg503 and Renji Asuka were all saying unchained was bad and can't top outside of a locals. Once I showed the proof they had no response.[/quote:2via5zc4]
Bruh they did had a response. An even before that, everyone and their mother was telling you, "A broken clock can give to correct time twice a day."

Enough of this Unchained! He's a bad archetype!
There are other archetypes better than that, but just sticking to him, it's autistic!

[quote="DarwisBellium92":2owxueom]Enough of this Unchained! He's a bad archetype!
There are other archetypes better than that, but just sticking to him, it's autistic![/quote:2owxueom]
Don't call him autistic. That's an insult to autistic people. At least show some class, sheesh.

[quote="Renji Asuka":23dhx89t][quote="DarwisBellium92":23dhx89t]Enough of this Unchained! He's a bad archetype!
There are other archetypes better than that, but just sticking to him, it's autistic![/quote:23dhx89t]
Don't call him autistic. That's an insult to autistic people. At least show some class, sheesh.[/quote:23dhx89t]
I mean to Sound4, no you

[quote="DarwisBellium92":2w1cxhf2][quote="Renji Asuka":2w1cxhf2][quote="DarwisBellium92":2w1cxhf2]Enough of this Unchained! He's a bad archetype!
There are other archetypes better than that, but just sticking to him, it's autistic![/quote:2w1cxhf2]
Don't call him autistic. That's an insult to autistic people. At least show some class, sheesh.[/quote:2w1cxhf2]
I mean to Sound4, no you[/quote:2w1cxhf2]
We know, but this is a classic instance of an implied insult, insinuating that Sound4 is worse than "autistic." Though I don't know how far that word goes on the insult meter anymore.

[quote="greg503":276yvy3z][quote="DarwisBellium92":276yvy3z][quote="Renji Asuka":276yvy3z]
Don't call him autistic. That's an insult to autistic people. At least show some class, sheesh.[/quote:276yvy3z]
I mean to Sound4, no you[/quote:276yvy3z]
We know, but this is a classic instance of an implied insult, insinuating that Sound4 is worse than "autistic." Though I don't know how far that word goes on the insult meter anymore.[/quote:276yvy3z]
I mean, it was a sarcastic post so...

[quote="troglyte":2nnf78rj]Guys, you know he's just going to continue ignoring every argument you make, and then pretend like you haven't said anything, right[/quote:2nnf78rj]
It is funny you say this after you ran once I asked for proof in n3sh thread. You were accusing me of harassing n3sh without providing a single piece of evidence. Once I asked for proof you ran. You clearly embarrassed yourself and that wasn't the only thread

[quote="ScottyAdams":1q72yw2l][quote="Sound4":1q72yw2l][quote="ScottyAdams":1q72yw2l]Okay, so the crux of your argument Sound has been "a good pilot can bring the most outta a deck". No shit, Sherlock. This applies to ANY deck in the game.

Also, yes Coder is a good Unchained pilot but 1 event top does not prove its status as a meta or more than a rogue deck. Anyone can have a good run at a tournament, the meta and top decks are defined by how consistenrly they top.[/quote:1q72yw2l]
The Deck just doesn't have good representation. Also yes the top does mean something especially when Christen57, Greg503 and Renji Asuka were all saying unchained was bad and can't top outside of a locals. Once I showed the proof they had no response.[/quote:1q72yw2l]

Unchained isn't a "good" deck (it's not bad either), nor is it meta. That's perfectly okay tho. It's about being realistic with the deck and understanding its limitations. Saying "it just doesn't have enough representation" is an indication the deck likely isn't up to snuff at the top level. 1 top can easily be seen as an outlier - consistency *among other things* is what separates the top decks and those that see consistent high level success from the other decks.[/quote:1q72yw2l]
I mean you can't do much when the deck isn't played that much. That isn't because the deck is bad.it is the same for heroes it is a good deck but just doesn't have enough representation to be played enough. Unchained is an underrated deck plus there are other tops with unchained. Being able to consistently break boards and have so much good consistency is amazing. Here are two replays of me beating swordsoul a meta deck very easily.
https://www.duelingbook.com/replay?id=815175-39859855
https://www.duelingbook.com/replay?id=815175-39824972

[quote="Renji Asuka":rh8gggux][quote="Sound4":rh8gggux][quote="Renji Asuka":rh8gggux]
Did I stutter?[/quote:rh8gggux]
Nice way to avoid an argument. So I assuming that you have no response.[/quote:rh8gggux]
You keep bringing up arguments that were already covered and tried to again.

So shut your bitch ass up.[/quote:rh8gggux]
You literally said "a" like he best one top tier deck but he was beating multiple consistently which you have not answered .

We deviated so much from the original thread, if Unxhained is so good, then why are you requesting to br placed on top ladder instead of climbing your way there. There's a major inconscistency with your argument, if Unchained was so great, then you would be able to sweep every match, yet you are stuck in mid-ladder.

[quote="Sound4":1d2nqew8][quote="ScottyAdams":1d2nqew8][quote="Sound4":1d2nqew8]
The Deck just doesn't have good representation. Also yes the top does mean something especially when Christen57, Greg503 and Renji Asuka were all saying unchained was bad and can't top outside of a locals. Once I showed the proof they had no response.[/quote:1d2nqew8]

Unchained isn't a "good" deck (it's not bad either), nor is it meta. That's perfectly okay tho. It's about being realistic with the deck and understanding its limitations. Saying "it just doesn't have enough representation" is an indication the deck likely isn't up to snuff at the top level. 1 top can easily be seen as an outlier - consistency *among other things* is what separates the top decks and those that see consistent high level success from the other decks.[/quote:1d2nqew8]
I mean you can't do much when the deck isn't played that much. That isn't because the deck is bad.it is the same for heroes it is a good deck but just doesn't have enough representation to be played enough. Unchained is an underrated deck plus there are other tops with unchained. Being able to consistently break boards and have so much good consistency is amazing. Here are two replays of me beating swordsoul a meta deck very easily.
https://www.duelingbook.com/replay?id=815175-39859855
https://www.duelingbook.com/replay?id=815175-39824972[/quote:1d2nqew8]
Easily means a 2-0 sweep idiot. Also, of course generic staples will help any deck take on opposing boards. Also, what about OTHER meta decks? You've only showed us the Swordsoul matchup, what about Branded/Despia, or P.U.N.K.?

[quote="Sound4":3tys1fxd][quote="troglyte":3tys1fxd]Guys, you know he's just going to continue ignoring every argument you make, and then pretend like you haven't said anything, right[/quote:3tys1fxd]
It is funny you say this after you ran once I asked for proof in n3sh thread. You were accusing me of harassing n3sh without providing a single piece of evidence. Once I asked for proof you ran. You clearly embarrassed yourself and that wasn't the only thread[/quote:3tys1fxd]

Bait. Stay on topic plz.

[quote="Sound4":y34aexfp][quote="Renji Asuka":y34aexfp][quote="Sound4":y34aexfp]
Nice way to avoid an argument. So I assuming that you have no response.[/quote:y34aexfp]
You keep bringing up arguments that were already covered and tried to again.

So shut your bitch ass up.[/quote:y34aexfp]
You literally said "a" like he best one top tier deck but he was beating multiple consistently which you have not answered .[/quote:y34aexfp]
Again, it was already covered.

You just didn't accept the response.

Now come up with a new argument or shut the fuck up.

[quote="troglyte":fnw681m0][quote="Sound4":fnw681m0][quote="troglyte":fnw681m0]Guys, you know he's just going to continue ignoring every argument you make, and then pretend like you haven't said anything, right[/quote:fnw681m0]
It is funny you say this after you ran once I asked for proof in n3sh thread. You were accusing me of harassing n3sh without providing a single piece of evidence. Once I asked for proof you ran. You clearly embarrassed yourself and that wasn't the only thread[/quote:fnw681m0]

Bait. Stay on topic plz.[/quote:fnw681m0]
It is actually does link back to the topic and what you said. You say ignore people's point but didn't provide a single piece if evidence on which parts I "ignored". This is the exact same thing you did in the n3sh thread. If you don't provide the evidence then it is clear that you are lying and simply trying to make me look like the bad guy. Show the evidence if you can that is.

[quote="Renji Asuka":27x4j366][quote="Sound4":27x4j366][quote="Renji Asuka":27x4j366]
You keep bringing up arguments that were already covered and tried to again.

So shut your bitch ass up.[/quote:27x4j366]
You literally said "a" like he best one top tier deck but he was beating multiple consistently which you have not answered .[/quote:27x4j366]
Again, it was already covered.

You just didn't accept the response.

Now come up with a new argument or shut the fuck up.[/quote:27x4j366]
Show the post where it was covered as all you said was "Did I stutter?" Which is a very vague response and trying to avoid a point since you have no argument. Show the post where it was covered if you can that is. Which I doubt you can. If you can't then that ends this discussion and that I have the benefit of the doubt and I made a valid point.

[quote="Lil Oldman":26cw95eo]We deviated so much from the original thread, if Unxhained is so good, then why are you requesting to br placed on top ladder instead of climbing your way there. There's a major inconscistency with your argument, if Unchained was so great, then you would be able to sweep every match, yet you are stuck in mid-ladder.[/quote:26cw95eo]
I have already answered this. I can climb the ladder but the competition doesn't give you the motivation to. Since I was able to climb ladder on nexus with unchained. Thus was clearly mentioned many times by me. Read through the first few pages of this thread as when you were writing this it is clear that you didn't.

[quote="Lil Oldman":3d10jaaq][quote="Sound4":3d10jaaq][quote="ScottyAdams":3d10jaaq]Okay, so the crux of your argument Sound has been "a good pilot can bring the most outta a deck". No shit, Sherlock. This applies to ANY deck in the game.

Also, yes Coder is a good Unchained pilot but 1 event top does not prove its status as a meta or more than a rogue deck. Anyone can have a good run at a tournament, the meta and top decks are defined by how consistenrly they top.[/quote:3d10jaaq]
The Deck just doesn't have good representation. Also yes the top does mean something especially when Christen57, Greg503 and Renji Asuka were all saying unchained was bad and can't top outside of a locals. Once I showed the proof they had no response.[/quote:3d10jaaq]
Bruh they did had a response. An even before that, everyone and their mother was telling you, "A broken clock can give to correct time twice a day."[/quote:3d10jaaq]
Very vague

[quote="Sound4":3n327fyq][quote="troglyte":3n327fyq][quote="Sound4":3n327fyq]
It is funny you say this after you ran once I asked for proof in n3sh thread. You were accusing me of harassing n3sh without providing a single piece of evidence. Once I asked for proof you ran. You clearly embarrassed yourself and that wasn't the only thread[/quote:3n327fyq]

Bait. Stay on topic plz.[/quote:3n327fyq]
It is actually does link back to the topic and what you said. You say ignore people's point but didn't provide a single piece if evidence on which parts I "ignored". This is the exact same thing you did in the n3sh thread. If you don't provide the evidence then it is clear that you are lying and simply trying to make me look like the bad guy. Show the evidence if you can that is.[/quote:3n327fyq]

You're just projecting your own terrible tactics. You've already been called out for ignoring evidence when it doesn't suit you numerous times. The fact that you can't stay on topic shows that you have no real argument and are just baiting people for your own amusement. Stay on topic plz, though knowing you, I doubt you even remember what the original topic of this thread was.

[quote="Sound4":l35o1gyc][quote="Lil Oldman":l35o1gyc]We deviated so much from the original thread, if Unxhained is so good, then why are you requesting to br placed on top ladder instead of climbing your way there. There's a major inconscistency with your argument, if Unchained was so great, then you would be able to sweep every match, yet you are stuck in mid-ladder.[/quote:l35o1gyc]
I have already answered this. I can climb the ladder but the competition doesn't give you the motivation to. Since I was able to climb ladder on nexus with unchained. Thus was clearly mentioned many times by me. Read through the first few pages of this thread as when you were writing this it is clear that you didn't.[/quote:l35o1gyc]
If you are unmotivated, then play something different, and don't complain about not getting what you think you're entitled to

[quote="Sound4":1e4842zi][quote="Lil Oldman":1e4842zi][quote="Sound4":1e4842zi]
The Deck just doesn't have good representation. Also yes the top does mean something especially when Christen57, Greg503 and Renji Asuka were all saying unchained was bad and can't top outside of a locals. Once I showed the proof they had no response.[/quote:1e4842zi]
Bruh they did had a response. An even before that, everyone and their mother was telling you, "A broken clock can give to correct time twice a day."[/quote:1e4842zi]
Very vague[/quote:1e4842zi]
Uh, no, very clear what Im saying. Just because I can hit a strike, doesn't mean I can win the Bowling championship. You can get lucky from time to time, and you can have a good match-up from time to time.

[quote="Sound4":by7ptveh][quote="Lil Oldman":by7ptveh]We deviated so much from the original thread, if Unxhained is so good, then why are you requesting to br placed on top ladder instead of climbing your way there. There's a major inconscistency with your argument, if Unchained was so great, then you would be able to sweep every match, yet you are stuck in mid-ladder.[/quote:by7ptveh]
I have already answered this. I can climb the ladder but the competition doesn't give you the motivation to. Since I was able to climb ladder on nexus with unchained. Thus was clearly mentioned many times by me. Read through the first few pages of this thread as when you were writing this it is clear that you didn't.[/quote:by7ptveh]
I clearly did. Or do you want me to remind you of the 4 duel lose streak or your average win/lose ratio you had at the moment? Everything anout this thread sounds like a massive justification to a blatant skill issue.

"I want my gold medal without participating."
"I would like bys to top cut."
"Grinding internet points is boring, so can you just give me them for free?"

[quote="Sound4":n33z1nkd][quote="Renji Asuka":n33z1nkd][quote="Sound4":n33z1nkd]
You literally said "a" like he best one top tier deck but he was beating multiple consistently which you have not answered .[/quote:n33z1nkd]
Again, it was already covered.

You just didn't accept the response.

Now come up with a new argument or shut the fuck up.[/quote:n33z1nkd]
Show the post where it was covered as all you said was "Did I stutter?" Which is a very vague response and trying to avoid a point since you have no argument. Show the post where it was covered if you can that is. Which I doubt you can. If you can't then that ends this discussion and that I have the benefit of the doubt and I made a valid point.[/quote:n33z1nkd]
"Did I stutter" isn't vague, it just means that I'm not going to repeat myself as your stupid argument doesn't warrant a new response as the arguments I already made had covered the argument in question.

[quote="Renji Asuka":nhrpr5up][quote="Sound4":nhrpr5up][quote="Renji Asuka":nhrpr5up]
Again, it was already covered.

You just didn't accept the response.

Now come up with a new argument or shut the fuck up.[/quote:nhrpr5up]
Show the post where it was covered as all you said was "Did I stutter?" Which is a very vague response and trying to avoid a point since you have no argument. Show the post where it was covered if you can that is. Which I doubt you can. If you can't then that ends this discussion and that I have the benefit of the doubt and I made a valid point.[/quote:nhrpr5up]
"Did I stutter" isn't vague, it just means that I'm not going to repeat myself as your stupid argument doesn't warrant a new response as the arguments I already made had covered the argument in question.[/quote:nhrpr5up]
Thank you for confirming that you have no argument or response. This conversation between us is over you have lost this debate. Have a nice day.

[quote="Lil Oldman":1yo5vyhl][quote="Sound4":1yo5vyhl][quote="Lil Oldman":1yo5vyhl]We deviated so much from the original thread, if Unxhained is so good, then why are you requesting to br placed on top ladder instead of climbing your way there. There's a major inconscistency with your argument, if Unchained was so great, then you would be able to sweep every match, yet you are stuck in mid-ladder.[/quote:1yo5vyhl]
I have already answered this. I can climb the ladder but the competition doesn't give you the motivation to. Since I was able to climb ladder on nexus with unchained. Thus was clearly mentioned many times by me. Read through the first few pages of this thread as when you were writing this it is clear that you didn't.[/quote:1yo5vyhl]
I clearly did. Or do you want me to remind you of the 4 duel lose streak or your average win/lose ratio you had at the moment? Everything anout this thread sounds like a massive justification to a blatant skill issue.[/quote:1yo5vyhl]
Context Context Context

[quote="troglyte":377cybp7][quote="Sound4":377cybp7][quote="troglyte":377cybp7]

Bait. Stay on topic plz.[/quote:377cybp7]
It is actually does link back to the topic and what you said. You say ignore people's point but didn't provide a single piece if evidence on which parts I "ignored". This is the exact same thing you did in the n3sh thread. If you don't provide the evidence then it is clear that you are lying and simply trying to make me look like the bad guy. Show the evidence if you can that is.[/quote:377cybp7]

You're just projecting your own terrible tactics. You've already been called out for ignoring evidence when it doesn't suit you numerous times. The fact that you can't stay on topic shows that you have no real argument and are just baiting people for your own amusement. Stay on topic plz, though knowing you, I doubt you even remember what the original topic of this thread was.[/quote:377cybp7]
Thank you for confirming that you are liar. You would have already shown the proof if you weren't. You have embarrassed yourself even further and refuse to show evidence and lying without reason. Have a nice day.

[quote="Lil Oldman":o1ckc3nn][quote="Sound4":o1ckc3nn][quote="Lil Oldman":o1ckc3nn]
Bruh they did had a response. An even before that, everyone and their mother was telling you, "A broken clock can give to correct time twice a day."[/quote:o1ckc3nn]
Very vague[/quote:o1ckc3nn]
Uh, no, very clear what Im saying. Just because I can hit a strike, doesn't mean I can win the Bowling championship. You can get lucky from time to time, and you can have a good match-up from time to time.[/quote:o1ckc3nn]
Yet there was no luck involved purely skill

[quote="Sound4":2tqqupez][quote="Renji Asuka":2tqqupez][quote="Sound4":2tqqupez]
Show the post where it was covered as all you said was "Did I stutter?" Which is a very vague response and trying to avoid a point since you have no argument. Show the post where it was covered if you can that is. Which I doubt you can. If you can't then that ends this discussion and that I have the benefit of the doubt and I made a valid point.[/quote:2tqqupez]
"Did I stutter" isn't vague, it just means that I'm not going to repeat myself as your stupid argument doesn't warrant a new response as the arguments I already made had covered the argument in question.[/quote:2tqqupez]
Thank you for confirming that you have no argument or response. This conversation between us is over you have lost this debate. Have a nice day.[/quote:2tqqupez]
Now tell me, do you have a smooth brain? Or are you just stupid? No seriously? How many fucking times do people have to fucking tell you that any deck can beat any deck every once in awhile? That it doesn't mean the deck is actually good?

This argument has been told to you so many fucking times it isn't even fucking funny at this point.

And EVERY single fucking time you come back to this thread, you circle back to the same fucking bullshit.

Honestly, I can't tell if you're actually retarded or you're just stupid.

[quote="Sound4":161bzk0s][quote="troglyte":161bzk0s][quote="Sound4":161bzk0s]
It is actually does link back to the topic and what you said. You say ignore people's point but didn't provide a single piece if evidence on which parts I "ignored". This is the exact same thing you did in the n3sh thread. If you don't provide the evidence then it is clear that you are lying and simply trying to make me look like the bad guy. Show the evidence if you can that is.[/quote:161bzk0s]

You're just projecting your own terrible tactics. You've already been called out for ignoring evidence when it doesn't suit you numerous times. The fact that you can't stay on topic shows that you have no real argument and are just baiting people for your own amusement. Stay on topic plz, though knowing you, I doubt you even remember what the original topic of this thread was.[/quote:161bzk0s]
Thank you for confirming that you are liar. You would have already shown the proof if you weren't. You have embarrassed yourself even further and refuse to show evidence and lying without reason. Have a nice day.[/quote:161bzk0s]
Thank you for describing yourself to us, so we know that you're bad

It's official, each Sound4 posts is a fucking waste of time here. -_-

[quote="Sound4":3p5pn1bo][quote="Lil Oldman":3p5pn1bo][quote="Sound4":3p5pn1bo]
Very vague[/quote:3p5pn1bo]
Uh, no, very clear what Im saying. Just because I can hit a strike, doesn't mean I can win the Bowling championship. You can get lucky from time to time, and you can have a good match-up from time to time.[/quote:3p5pn1bo]
Yet there was no luck involved purely skill[/quote:3p5pn1bo]
You are playing a card game. Luck is am inherent part of the game.

[quote="Sound4":ooqxvi42][quote="Lil Oldman":ooqxvi42][quote="Sound4":ooqxvi42]
I have already answered this. I can climb the ladder but the competition doesn't give you the motivation to. Since I was able to climb ladder on nexus with unchained. Thus was clearly mentioned many times by me. Read through the first few pages of this thread as when you were writing this it is clear that you didn't.[/quote:ooqxvi42]
I clearly did. Or do you want me to remind you of the 4 duel lose streak or your average win/lose ratio you had at the moment? Everything anout this thread sounds like a massive justification to a blatant skill issue.[/quote:ooqxvi42]
Context Context Context[/quote:ooqxvi42]
Context what, you lost 4 times and had and average w/l ratio.

[quote="Lil Oldman":2ew3lp3t][quote="Sound4":2ew3lp3t][quote="Lil Oldman":2ew3lp3t]
I clearly did. Or do you want me to remind you of the 4 duel lose streak or your average win/lose ratio you had at the moment? Everything anout this thread sounds like a massive justification to a blatant skill issue.[/quote:2ew3lp3t]
Context Context Context[/quote:2ew3lp3t]
Context what, you lost 4 times and had and average w/l ratio.[/quote:2ew3lp3t]
You have to see what happened in those duels that is why I am saying context as if you don't then your post lacks context.

[quote="Lil Oldman":37hpxv0j][quote="Sound4":37hpxv0j][quote="Lil Oldman":37hpxv0j]
Uh, no, very clear what Im saying. Just because I can hit a strike, doesn't mean I can win the Bowling championship. You can get lucky from time to time, and you can have a good match-up from time to time.[/quote:37hpxv0j]
Yet there was no luck involved purely skill[/quote:37hpxv0j]
You are playing a card game. Luck is am inherent part of the game.[/quote:37hpxv0j]
Yes but I made very good plays in both of those duels even though they are playing a better deck.

[quote="greg503":3tlmmjsl][quote="Sound4":3tlmmjsl][quote="troglyte":3tlmmjsl]

You're just projecting your own terrible tactics. You've already been called out for ignoring evidence when it doesn't suit you numerous times. The fact that you can't stay on topic shows that you have no real argument and are just baiting people for your own amusement. Stay on topic plz, though knowing you, I doubt you even remember what the original topic of this thread was.[/quote:3tlmmjsl]
Thank you for confirming that you are liar. You would have already shown the proof if you weren't. You have embarrassed yourself even further and refuse to show evidence and lying without reason. Have a nice day.[/quote:3tlmmjsl]
Thank you for describing yourself to us, so we know that you're bad[/quote:3tlmmjsl]
Bad at what? Troglyte would have already shown the proof if he had any. Plus this is another thread in which he accuses me of something doesn't show proof and then when I ask for it he either runs away or ignores it.

[quote="Renji Asuka":24okd3d8][quote="Sound4":24okd3d8][quote="Renji Asuka":24okd3d8]
"Did I stutter" isn't vague, it just means that I'm not going to repeat myself as your stupid argument doesn't warrant a new response as the arguments I already made had covered the argument in question.[/quote:24okd3d8]
Thank you for confirming that you have no argument or response. This conversation between us is over you have lost this debate. Have a nice day.[/quote:24okd3d8]
Now tell me, do you have a smooth brain? Or are you just stupid? No seriously? How many fucking times do people have to fucking tell you that any deck can beat any deck every once in awhile? That it doesn't mean the deck is actually good?

This argument has been told to you so many fucking times it isn't even fucking funny at this point.

And EVERY single fucking time you come back to this thread, you circle back to the same fucking bullshit.

Honestly, I can't tell if you're actually retarded or you're just stupid.[/quote:24okd3d8]
I clearly said that this person wasn't beating a singular top tier deck but multiple considering that you have still not answered this and went back to the same already answered and debunked argument suggests that you have no other argument. It's over you have lost this conversation. Accept it.

[quote="greg503":2lmo57x1][quote="Sound4":2lmo57x1][quote="ScottyAdams":2lmo57x1]

Unchained isn't a "good" deck (it's not bad either), nor is it meta. That's perfectly okay tho. It's about being realistic with the deck and understanding its limitations. Saying "it just doesn't have enough representation" is an indication the deck likely isn't up to snuff at the top level. 1 top can easily be seen as an outlier - consistency *among other things* is what separates the top decks and those that see consistent high level success from the other decks.[/quote:2lmo57x1]
I mean you can't do much when the deck isn't played that much. That isn't because the deck is bad.it is the same for heroes it is a good deck but just doesn't have enough representation to be played enough. Unchained is an underrated deck plus there are other tops with unchained. Being able to consistently break boards and have so much good consistency is amazing. Here are two replays of me beating swordsoul a meta deck very easily.
https://www.duelingbook.com/replay?id=815175-39859855
https://www.duelingbook.com/replay?id=815175-39824972[/quote:2lmo57x1]
Easily means a 2-0 sweep idiot. Also, of course generic staples will help any deck take on opposing boards. Also, what about OTHER meta decks? You've only showed us the Swordsoul matchup, what about Branded/Despia, or P.U.N.K.?[/quote:2lmo57x1]
I honestly don't play against those decks that often it has been a while I have played against Branded Despia and PUNK I may have one or two but I will have to check. Swordsoul is definitely a deck I play against the most. I have a tri brigade replay in which the Deck is still pretty good and has been topping multiple nationals. https://www.duelingbook.com/replay?id=815175-40064158

[quote="Sound4":2ereh6x6][quote="Renji Asuka":2ereh6x6][quote="Sound4":2ereh6x6]
Thank you for confirming that you have no argument or response. This conversation between us is over you have lost this debate. Have a nice day.[/quote:2ereh6x6]
Now tell me, do you have a smooth brain? Or are you just stupid? No seriously? How many fucking times do people have to fucking tell you that any deck can beat any deck every once in awhile? That it doesn't mean the deck is actually good?

This argument has been told to you so many fucking times it isn't even fucking funny at this point.

And EVERY single fucking time you come back to this thread, you circle back to the same fucking bullshit.

Honestly, I can't tell if you're actually retarded or you're just stupid.[/quote:2ereh6x6]
I clearly said that this person wasn't beating a singular top tier deck but multiple considering that you have still not answered this and went back to the same already answered and debunked argument suggests that you have no other argument. It's over you have lost this conversation. Accept it.[/quote:2ereh6x6]
Didn't ask, didn't fucking care. Any deck can beat any deck. End of story.

Unchained is trash end of story.

[quote="Sound4":336r853o][quote="greg503":336r853o][quote="Sound4":336r853o]
Thank you for confirming that you are liar. You would have already shown the proof if you weren't. You have embarrassed yourself even further and refuse to show evidence and lying without reason. Have a nice day.[/quote:336r853o]
Thank you for describing yourself to us, so we know that you're bad[/quote:336r853o]
Bad at what? Troglyte would have already shown the proof if he had any. Plus this is another thread in which he accuses me of something doesn't show proof and then when I ask for it he either runs away or ignores it.[/quote:336r853o]
You're the one running from the proof

[quote="greg503":1i4e21z8][quote="Renji Asuka":1i4e21z8][quote="Sound4":1i4e21z8]
Thank you for confirming that you have no argument or response. This conversation between us is over you have lost this debate. Have a nice day.[/quote:1i4e21z8]
Now tell me, do you have a smooth brain? Or are you just stupid? No seriously? How many fucking times do people have to fucking tell you that any deck can beat any deck every once in awhile? That it doesn't mean the deck is actually good?

This argument has been told to you so many fucking times it isn't even fucking funny at this point.

And EVERY single fucking time you come back to this thread, you circle back to the same fucking bullshit.

Honestly, I can't tell if you're actually retarded or you're just stupid.[/quote:1i4e21z8]
I clearly said that this person beating multiple "top tier" decks in ONE TOURNAMENT is not sufficient proof of Unchained being good considering that you have still not answered this and went back to the same already answered and debunked argument suggests that you have no other argument. It's over you have lost this conversation. Accept it.[/quote:1i4e21z8]
Bruh moment

[quote="Sound4":1a5kili9][quote="Lil Oldman":1a5kili9][quote="Sound4":1a5kili9]
Yet there was no luck involved purely skill[/quote:1a5kili9]
You are playing a card game. Luck is am inherent part of the game.[/quote:1a5kili9]
Yes but I made very good plays in both of those duels even though they are playing a better deck.[/quote:1a5kili9]
If you where as skilled as you said, you wouldn't have lost 4 times in a row against untiered/low-tiered games.

[quote="Lil Oldman":2neil49s][quote="Sound4":2neil49s][quote="Lil Oldman":2neil49s]
You are playing a card game. Luck is am inherent part of the game.[/quote:2neil49s]
Yes but I made very good plays in both of those duels even though they are playing a better deck.[/quote:2neil49s]
If you where as skilled as you said, you wouldn't have lost 4 times in a row against untiered/low-tiered games.[/quote:2neil49s]
Floowandereeze is "untiered/low tiered". Have a nice day. It is simple you have not watched the replays just in an attempt to make me look bad. Once you watch the replays then talk instead of making inaccurate assumptions and lacking context.

[quote="greg503":2qnh79jx][quote="Sound4":2qnh79jx][quote="greg503":2qnh79jx]
Thank you for describing yourself to us, so we know that you're bad[/quote:2qnh79jx]
Bad at what? Troglyte would have already shown the proof if he had any. Plus this is another thread in which he accuses me of something doesn't show proof and then when I ask for it he either runs away or ignores it.[/quote:2qnh79jx]
You're the one running from the proof[/quote:2qnh79jx]
That doesn't make much sense since none of you have shown any proof. Explain. Explain how I have been ignoring show proof since when I asked troglyte for the proof he clearly failed to provide any. He ignored since te knows he has no proof and lies. Really show the proof. If you can not then it confirms many things.

[quote="Renji Asuka":33av3dfb][quote="Sound4":33av3dfb][quote="Renji Asuka":33av3dfb]
Now tell me, do you have a smooth brain? Or are you just stupid? No seriously? How many fucking times do people have to fucking tell you that any deck can beat any deck every once in awhile? That it doesn't mean the deck is actually good?

This argument has been told to you so many fucking times it isn't even fucking funny at this point.

And EVERY single fucking time you come back to this thread, you circle back to the same fucking bullshit.

Honestly, I can't tell if you're actually retarded or you're just stupid.[/quote:33av3dfb]
I clearly said that this person wasn't beating a singular top tier deck but multiple considering that you have still not answered this and went back to the same already answered and debunked argument suggests that you have no other argument. It's over you have lost this conversation. Accept it.[/quote:33av3dfb]
Didn't ask, didn't fucking care. Any deck can beat any deck. End of story.

Unchained is trash end of story.[/quote:33av3dfb]
If you don't care you wouldn't be posting anymore. Your actions contradict what you are saying. You have no argumentd and failed to bring any new points once I showed my proof of unchained topping yet you said unchained can not top and is "trash". You have lost this conversation. Have a nice day.

[quote="Sound4":282otv88][quote="greg503":282otv88][quote="Sound4":282otv88]
Bad at what? Troglyte would have already shown the proof if he had any. Plus this is another thread in which he accuses me of something doesn't show proof and then when I ask for it he either runs away or ignores it.[/quote:282otv88]
You're the one running from the proof[/quote:282otv88]
That doesn't make much sense since none of you have shown any proof. Explain. Explain how I have been ignoring show proof since when I asked troglyte for the proof he clearly failed to provide any. He ignored since te knows he has no proof and lies. Really show the proof. If you can not then it confirms many things.[/quote:282otv88]
The proof is the lack of it. Unchained clearly has not had any meta relevance, the remote duel tourney, while notable, is also remote duels, the easiest cheats in the game. Your record on rated while YGOScope was still tracking players, was average, meaning you're probably at the "correct" rating tier. You have evidence, but it is insufficient. You still have yet to prove anything beyond doubt, and you probably never will.

[quote="Sound4":3609mje3][quote="Renji Asuka":3609mje3][quote="Sound4":3609mje3]
I clearly said that this person wasn't beating a singular top tier deck but multiple considering that you have still not answered this and went back to the same already answered and debunked argument suggests that you have no other argument. It's over you have lost this conversation. Accept it.[/quote:3609mje3]
Didn't ask, didn't fucking care. Any deck can beat any deck. End of story.

Unchained is trash end of story.[/quote:3609mje3]
If you don't care you wouldn't be posting anymore. Your actions contradict what you are saying. You have no argumentd and failed to bring any new points once I showed my proof of unchained topping yet you said unchained can not top and is "trash". You have lost this conversation. Have a nice day.[/quote:3609mje3]
Unchained is still trash tier.

You're still trash tier.

All of you, knock it off.

This conversation has gotten completely out of hand. You've all been told numerous times not to do this. There has been tons of disrespectful behaviour between you in numerous threads in the forums, and it's been an issue each time. There's no reason for this to have even escalated this far. If you've made your point and the other party doesn't accept it, just move on. Escalating things achieves nothing positive for anybody.

If you feel an argument will escalate to this point, just back away from it. This applies to all of you.

[quote="itsmetristan":2mtq9yws]All of you, knock it off.

This conversation has gotten completely out of hand. You've all been told numerous times not to do this. There has been tons of disrespectful behaviour between you in numerous threads in the forums, and it's been an issue each time. There's no reason for this to have even escalated this far. If you've made your point and the other party doesn't accept it, just move on.[/quote:2mtq9yws]

Get someone to come and lock this thread then since 1) both you and Genexwrecker already rejected the original suggestion that was posted at the beginning of this thread, 2) everything that needed to be discussed here regarding Unchained has been discussed, and 3) nobody can say this time that "we don't need to lock this since it's in Spam Paradise" like before, because this is in Suggestions.

[quote="Christen57":33aszx27][quote="itsmetristan":33aszx27]All of you, knock it off.

This conversation has gotten completely out of hand. You've all been told numerous times not to do this. There has been tons of disrespectful behaviour between you in numerous threads in the forums, and it's been an issue each time. There's no reason for this to have even escalated this far. If you've made your point and the other party doesn't accept it, just move on. Escalating things achieves nothing positive for anybody.

If you feel an argument will escalate to this point, just back away from it. This applies to all of you.[/quote:33aszx27]

Get someone to come and lock this thread then since 1) both you and Genexwrecker already rejected the original suggestion posted at the beginning of this thread, 2) everything that needed to be discussed here regarding Unchained has been discussed, and 3) nobody can say this time that "we don't need to lock this since it's in Spam Paradise" like before, because this is in Suggestions.[/quote:33aszx27]
To add more to this, this thread should had been locked a long time ago as it isn't actually a suggestion.

[quote="Sound4":hlfvugv0][quote="Lil Oldman":hlfvugv0][quote="Sound4":hlfvugv0]
Yes but I made very good plays in both of those duels even though they are playing a better deck.[/quote:hlfvugv0]
If you where as skilled as you said, you wouldn't have lost 4 times in a row against untiered/low-tiered games.[/quote:hlfvugv0]
Floowandereeze is "untiered/low tiered". Have a nice day. It is simple you have not watched the replays just in an attempt to make me look bad. Once you watch the replays then talk instead of making inaccurate assumptions and lacking context.[/quote:hlfvugv0]
If Unchained cant kill Flunder, then you shouldn't be higher in the ladder

[quote="Christen57":2g0s0p9c][quote="itsmetristan":2g0s0p9c]All of you, knock it off.

This conversation has gotten completely out of hand. You've all been told numerous times not to do this. There has been tons of disrespectful behaviour between you in numerous threads in the forums, and it's been an issue each time. There's no reason for this to have even escalated this far. If you've made your point and the other party doesn't accept it, just move on.[/quote:2g0s0p9c]

Get someone to come and lock this thread then since 1) both you and Genexwrecker already rejected the original suggestion that was posted at the beginning of this thread, 2) everything that needed to be discussed here regarding Unchained has been discussed, and 3) nobody can say this time that "we don't need to lock this since it's in Spam Paradise" like before, because this is in Suggestions.[/quote:2g0s0p9c]
These threads wouldn't even NEED to be looked at and possibly locked if these hostile engagements didn't happen. Remember, it takes two to tangle. Furthermore, if everything that needed to be discussed here has been discussed, why am I still seeing you guys engaging with Sound4 about the subject?

Bringing up points of criticism is one thing, but some of you are taking it too far and refuse to let go. That trend needs to end.

[quote="itsmetristan":3r8i3viv]All of you, knock it off.

This conversation has gotten completely out of hand. You've all been told numerous times not to do this. There has been tons of disrespectful behaviour between you in numerous threads in the forums, and it's been an issue each time. There's no reason for this to have even escalated this far. If you've made your point and the other party doesn't accept it, just move on. Escalating things achieves nothing positive for anybody.

If you feel an argument will escalate to this point, just back away from it. This applies to all of you.[/quote:3r8i3viv]
You have a point however when I show proof they just disregard it.

[quote="Lil Oldman":3uyr1l2o][quote="Sound4":3uyr1l2o][quote="Lil Oldman":3uyr1l2o]
If you where as skilled as you said, you wouldn't have lost 4 times in a row against untiered/low-tiered games.[/quote:3uyr1l2o]
Floowandereeze is "untiered/low tiered". Have a nice day. It is simple you have not watched the replays just in an attempt to make me look bad. Once you watch the replays then talk instead of making inaccurate assumptions and lacking context.[/quote:3uyr1l2o]
If Unchained cant kill Flunder, then you shouldn't be higher in the ladder [/quote:3uyr1l2o]
I miss played so much that game watch it. Watch the replay since you obviously have not.

[quote="Renji Asuka":1sxigwyq][quote="Sound4":1sxigwyq][quote="Renji Asuka":1sxigwyq]
Didn't ask, didn't fucking care. Any deck can beat any deck. End of story.

Unchained is trash end of story.[/quote:1sxigwyq]
If you don't care you wouldn't be posting anymore. Your actions contradict what you are saying. You have no argumentd and failed to bring any new points once I showed my proof of unchained topping yet you said unchained can not top and is "trash". You have lost this conversation. Have a nice day.[/quote:1sxigwyq]
Unchained is still trash tier.

You're still trash tier.[/quote:1sxigwyq]
You have lost this debate. Accept it.

[quote="Sound4":2ku0scae][quote="Renji Asuka":2ku0scae][quote="Sound4":2ku0scae]
If you don't care you wouldn't be posting anymore. Your actions contradict what you are saying. You have no argumentd and failed to bring any new points once I showed my proof of unchained topping yet you said unchained can not top and is "trash". You have lost this conversation. Have a nice day.[/quote:2ku0scae]
Unchained is still trash tier.

You're still trash tier.[/quote:2ku0scae]
You have lost this debate. Accept it.[/quote:2ku0scae]
You never had an argument, also you're the common denominator.

[quote="Renji Asuka":2c3fl7a0][quote="Christen57":2c3fl7a0][quote="itsmetristan":2c3fl7a0]All of you, knock it off.

This conversation has gotten completely out of hand. You've all been told numerous times not to do this. There has been tons of disrespectful behaviour between you in numerous threads in the forums, and it's been an issue each time. There's no reason for this to have even escalated this far. If you've made your point and the other party doesn't accept it, just move on. Escalating things achieves nothing positive for anybody.

If you feel an argument will escalate to this point, just back away from it. This applies to all of you.[/quote:2c3fl7a0]

Get someone to come and lock this thread then since 1) both you and Genexwrecker already rejected the original suggestion posted at the beginning of this thread, 2) everything that needed to be discussed here regarding Unchained has been discussed, and 3) nobody can say this time that "we don't need to lock this since it's in Spam Paradise" like before, because this is in Suggestions.[/quote:2c3fl7a0]
To add more to this, this thread should had been locked a long time ago as it isn't actually a suggestion.[/quote:2c3fl7a0]
I suggested that once you start reaching 300-400 rating you should be playing against more top tier decks. Quite obvious. Further proving that you have not read anything in this thread. I don't kniw why you are still posting when you haven't even read what us being told to to you.

[quote="Renji Asuka":3rumeuqc][quote="Sound4":3rumeuqc][quote="Renji Asuka":3rumeuqc]
Unchained is still trash tier.

You're still trash tier.[/quote:3rumeuqc]
You have lost this debate. Accept it.[/quote:3rumeuqc]
You never had an argument, also you're the common denominator.[/quote:3rumeuqc]
But I did though I showed evidence and you had 0 answer if you did you would not be repeating the same point.

[quote="Sound4":1du4dx3d][quote="Lil Oldman":1du4dx3d][quote="Sound4":1du4dx3d]
Floowandereeze is "untiered/low tiered". Have a nice day. It is simple you have not watched the replays just in an attempt to make me look bad. Once you watch the replays then talk instead of making inaccurate assumptions and lacking context.[/quote:1du4dx3d]
If Unchained cant kill Flunder, then you shouldn't be higher in the ladder [/quote:1du4dx3d]
I miss played so much that game watch it. Watch the replay since you obviously have not.[/quote:1du4dx3d]
You misplayed 4 duels in a row? Weren't you a great Unchained Pilot? You are dragging yourself down to the grave.

[quote="Sound4":1jiygwow][quote="Renji Asuka":1jiygwow][quote="Christen57":1jiygwow]

Get someone to come and lock this thread then since 1) both you and Genexwrecker already rejected the original suggestion posted at the beginning of this thread, 2) everything that needed to be discussed here regarding Unchained has been discussed, and 3) nobody can say this time that "we don't need to lock this since it's in Spam Paradise" like before, because this is in Suggestions.[/quote:1jiygwow]
To add more to this, this thread should had been locked a long time ago as it isn't actually a suggestion.[/quote:1jiygwow]
I suggested that once you start reaching 300-400 rating you should be playing against more top tier decks. Quite obvious. Further proving that you have not read anything in this thread. I don't kniw why you are still posting when you haven't even read what us being told to to you.[/quote:1jiygwow]
Welcome to ladder, where the top tier end up at the top because they win the most. Of course mid won't have many top tier things. How can you want merely 300-400 as the threshold bro?

[quote="Sound4":2ja6nz24][quote="Renji Asuka":2ja6nz24][quote="Sound4":2ja6nz24]
You have lost this debate. Accept it.[/quote:2ja6nz24]
You never had an argument, also you're the common denominator.[/quote:2ja6nz24]
But I did though I showed evidence and you had 0 answer if you did you would not be repeating the same point.[/quote:2ja6nz24]
Did I stutter?

[quote="Sound4":3ahspscz][quote="Renji Asuka":3ahspscz][quote="Christen57":3ahspscz]

Get someone to come and lock this thread then since 1) both you and Genexwrecker already rejected the original suggestion posted at the beginning of this thread, 2) everything that needed to be discussed here regarding Unchained has been discussed, and 3) nobody can say this time that "we don't need to lock this since it's in Spam Paradise" like before, because this is in Suggestions.[/quote:3ahspscz]
To add more to this, this thread should had been locked a long time ago as it isn't actually a suggestion.[/quote:3ahspscz]
I suggested that once you start reaching 300-400 rating you should be playing against more top tier decks. Quite obvious. Further proving that you have not read anything in this thread. I don't kniw why you are still posting when you haven't even read what us being told to to you.[/quote:3ahspscz]
No, no you did not.

[quote="Sound4":3ahspscz]I have been seeing that a good amount of times when I go on DB rated I don't run into competitive decks. I have the most fun on DB when I run into top tier decks like prank kids. It annoys me that I run into decks like Altergeist even though I can beat them easily I don't feel like wasting 40 minutes on a deck like that.[/quote:3ahspscz]


This is what you stated. That doesn't suggest anything.

lets keep this thread going on forever lol

[quote="Sound4":3lct2sbq][quote="Renji Asuka":3lct2sbq][quote="Christen57":3lct2sbq]

Get someone to come and lock this thread then since 1) both you and Genexwrecker already rejected the original suggestion posted at the beginning of this thread, 2) everything that needed to be discussed here regarding Unchained has been discussed, and 3) nobody can say this time that "we don't need to lock this since it's in Spam Paradise" like before, because this is in Suggestions.[/quote:3lct2sbq]
To add more to this, this thread should had been locked a long time ago as it isn't actually a suggestion.[/quote:3lct2sbq]
I suggested that once you start reaching 300-400 rating you should be playing against more top tier decks. Quite obvious. Further proving that you have not read anything in this thread. I don't kniw why you are still posting when you haven't even read what us being told to to you.[/quote:3lct2sbq]

300-400 rating is beginner level, why would you want that to have top tier decks?

[quote="Renji Asuka":1a1x8sbe][quote="Sound4":1a1x8sbe][quote="Renji Asuka":1a1x8sbe]
To add more to this, this thread should had been locked a long time ago as it isn't actually a suggestion.[/quote:1a1x8sbe]
I suggested that once you start reaching 300-400 rating you should be playing against more top tier decks. Quite obvious. Further proving that you have not read anything in this thread. I don't kniw why you are still posting when you haven't even read what us being told to to you.[/quote:1a1x8sbe]
No, no you did not.

[quote="Sound4":1a1x8sbe]I have been seeing that a good amount of times when I go on DB rated I don't run into competitive decks. I have the most fun on DB when I run into top tier decks like prank kids. It annoys me that I run into decks like Altergeist even though I can beat them easily I don't feel like wasting 40 minutes on a deck like that.[/quote:1a1x8sbe]


This is what you stated. That doesn't suggest anything.[/quote:1a1x8sbe]
I later on made it more clear since some people didn't understand what I was suggesting.

[quote="Wek":25ov6g2a][quote="Sound4":25ov6g2a][quote="Renji Asuka":25ov6g2a]
To add more to this, this thread should had been locked a long time ago as it isn't actually a suggestion.[/quote:25ov6g2a]
I suggested that once you start reaching 300-400 rating you should be playing against more top tier decks. Quite obvious. Further proving that you have not read anything in this thread. I don't kniw why you are still posting when you haven't even read what us being told to to you.[/quote:25ov6g2a]

300-400 rating is beginner level, why would you want that to have top tier decks? [/quote:25ov6g2a]
Since I don't want to be facing low level decks?

[quote="Renji Asuka":3urxgj6y][quote="Sound4":3urxgj6y][quote="Renji Asuka":3urxgj6y]
You never had an argument, also you're the common denominator.[/quote:3urxgj6y]
But I did though I showed evidence and you had 0 answer if you did you would not be repeating the same point.[/quote:3urxgj6y]
Did I stutter?[/quote:3urxgj6y]
Nice way to avoid a point. The conversation has been sealed.

[quote="Sound4":3esznuwz][quote="Renji Asuka":3esznuwz][quote="Sound4":3esznuwz]
But I did though I showed evidence and you had 0 answer if you did you would not be repeating the same point.[/quote:3esznuwz]
Did I stutter?[/quote:3esznuwz]
Nice way to avoid a point. The conversation has been sealed.[/quote:3esznuwz]
You seem to think that the presence of any sort of "evidence" automatically makes you more right for having it. Ultimately though, you prove that you have never learned how to argue.

[quote="Sound4":1p9qow48][quote="Renji Asuka":1p9qow48][quote="Sound4":1p9qow48]
But I did though I showed evidence and you had 0 answer if you did you would not be repeating the same point.[/quote:1p9qow48]
Did I stutter?[/quote:1p9qow48]
Nice way to avoid a point. The conversation has been sealed.[/quote:1p9qow48]
Your own evidence works against you.

We seen your replay list where you lost over and over.

You're not a good player, Unchained is still bad.

You don't know how to argue as you just argue in circles.

You act as if your points are not addressed when they were.

You act as if you debunked people when you haven't.

You act as if we are speaking in some other language that you don't understand when we haven't.

[quote="Renji Asuka":s8fk6ujg][quote="Sound4":s8fk6ujg][quote="Renji Asuka":s8fk6ujg]
Did I stutter?[/quote:s8fk6ujg]
Nice way to avoid a point. The conversation has been sealed.[/quote:s8fk6ujg]
Your own evidence works against you.

We seen your replay list where you lost over and over.

You're not a good player, Unchained is still bad.

You don't know how to argue as you just argue in circles.

You act as if your points are not addressed when they were.

You act as if you debunked people when you haven't.

You act as if we are speaking in some other language that you don't understand when we haven't.[/quote:s8fk6ujg]
To be fair, I don't know if Ingen understands English that well...

[quote="Sound4":sapsfgec][quote="Christen57":sapsfgec][quote="Sound4":sapsfgec]
You basically ignored what I said. You said that a good amount Unchained cards are bricks. I was asking fir you which cards are bricks and you failed to do so.[/quote:sapsfgec]

Bricks OR -1s in card advantage, not JUST bricks.[/quote:sapsfgec]
Plus would you mind showing us your decklist post banlist?[/quote:sapsfgec]

My current deck of choice for this current format/meta (fast-forward to the end of the replay to see the whole main deck since I banished it all at the end of the game): [url:sapsfgec]https://www.duelingbook.com/replay?id=58994-40421707[/url:sapsfgec]

Extra deck consisted of copies of Albion, Brigrand, Chimera, Lubellion, Masquerade, Mirrorjade, and Sprind.

Had to abandon the Destroyer Phoenix Enforcer package since that package proved to be no longer worth running now that Verte got banned.

[quote="Renji Asuka":2e4vjv0m][quote="Sound4":2e4vjv0m][quote="Renji Asuka":2e4vjv0m]
Did I stutter?[/quote:2e4vjv0m]
Nice way to avoid a point. The conversation has been sealed.[/quote:2e4vjv0m]
Your own evidence works against you.

We seen your replay list where you lost over and over.

You're not a good player, Unchained is still bad.

You don't know how to argue as you just argue in circles.

You act as if your points are not addressed when they were.

You act as if you debunked people when you haven't.

You act as if we are speaking in some other language that you don't understand when we haven't.[/quote:2e4vjv0m]
Yet you fail to explain how my evidence works against me. You clearly have no more arguments.
https://www.duelingbook.com/replay?id=815175-40439894
https://www.duelingbook.com/replay?id=815175-40407305
https://www.duelingbook.com/replay?id=815175-40344564
https://www.duelingbook.com/replay?id=815175-40344266
https://www.duelingbook.com/replay?id=815175-40322082
5 straight wins with Unchained vs literally tier 1 and above decks yet unchained is suppost to be "trash".

[quote="greg503":35tdgiff][quote="Sound4":35tdgiff][quote="Renji Asuka":35tdgiff]
Did I stutter?[/quote:35tdgiff]
Nice way to avoid a point. The conversation has been sealed.[/quote:35tdgiff]
You seem to think that the presence of any sort of "evidence" automatically makes you more right for having it. Ultimately though, you prove that you have never learned how to argue.[/quote:35tdgiff]
Explain. Since you clearly haven't.

[quote="Sound4":2l80o6ws][quote="greg503":2l80o6ws][quote="Sound4":2l80o6ws]
Nice way to avoid a point. The conversation has been sealed.[/quote:2l80o6ws]
You seem to think that the presence of any sort of "evidence" automatically makes you more right for having it. Ultimately though, you prove that you have never learned how to argue.[/quote:2l80o6ws]
Explain. Since you clearly haven't.[/quote:2l80o6ws]
You are someone who values things like "having 'proof'" and "having the last word" over facts and logic, that will never win you a real argument.

[quote="Sound4":1t6ylvio][quote="Wek":1t6ylvio][quote="Sound4":1t6ylvio]
I suggested that once you start reaching 300-400 rating you should be playing against more top tier decks. Quite obvious. Further proving that you have not read anything in this thread. I don't kniw why you are still posting when you haven't even read what us being told to to you.[/quote:1t6ylvio]

300-400 rating is beginner level, why would you want that to have top tier decks? [/quote:1t6ylvio]
Since I don't want to be facing low level decks?[/quote:1t6ylvio]

Then get a higher rating. If you are at beginner ratings, don't expect to be regularly facing anything better than beginner competition. It would be unfair to have beginner 300-400s to be paired with anything too wild on a regular basis.

[quote="Wek":3q8mquu4][quote="Sound4":3q8mquu4][quote="Wek":3q8mquu4]

300-400 rating is beginner level, why would you want that to have top tier decks? [/quote:3q8mquu4]
Since I don't want to be facing low level decks?[/quote:3q8mquu4]

Then get a higher rating. If you are at beginner ratings, don't expect to be regularly facing anything better than beginner competition. It would be unfair to have beginner 300-400s to be paired with anything too wild on a regular basis.[/quote:3q8mquu4]

What about an option to let players with low rating/exp choose whether they want to face opponents with much higher ratings/exp or opponents with equal/similar ratings/exp?

[quote="Christen57":g28bcz4h][quote="Wek":g28bcz4h][quote="Sound4":g28bcz4h]
Since I don't want to be facing low level decks?[/quote:g28bcz4h]

Then get a higher rating. If you are at beginner ratings, don't expect to be regularly facing anything better than beginner competition. It would be unfair to have beginner 300-400s to be paired with anything too wild on a regular basis.[/quote:g28bcz4h]

What about an option to let players with low rating/exp choose whether they want to face opponents with much higher ratings/exp or opponents with equal/similar ratings/exp?[/quote:g28bcz4h]
There's this thing called unrated which allows you to ask for specific opponents in the duel notes. If you get to manipulate who you match against then you are basically destroying the Ladder's integrity.

[quote="Lil Oldman":23lwth77][quote="Christen57":23lwth77][quote="Wek":23lwth77]

Then get a higher rating. If you are at beginner ratings, don't expect to be regularly facing anything better than beginner competition. It would be unfair to have beginner 300-400s to be paired with anything too wild on a regular basis.[/quote:23lwth77]

What about an option to let players with low rating/exp choose whether they want to face opponents with much higher ratings/exp or opponents with equal/similar ratings/exp?[/quote:23lwth77]
There's this thing called unrated which allows you to ask for specific opponents in the duel notes. If you get to manipulate who you match against then you are basically destroying the Ladder's integrity.[/quote:23lwth77]

What about the option to pair up with the first opponent available for a quick game, instead of the system subjectively deciding who is "closest to your skill level" and trying to pair you up with that person, causing you to have to wait longer than necessary to find an opponent in rated?

[quote="Christen57":124yc7qy][quote="Lil Oldman":124yc7qy][quote="Christen57":124yc7qy]

What about an option to let players with low rating/exp choose whether they want to face opponents with much higher ratings/exp or opponents with equal/similar ratings/exp?[/quote:124yc7qy]
There's this thing called unrated which allows you to ask for specific opponents in the duel notes. If you get to manipulate who you match against then you are basically destroying the Ladder's integrity.[/quote:124yc7qy]

What about the option to pair up with the first opponent available for a quick game, instead of the system subjectively deciding who is "closest to your skill level" and trying to pair you up with that person, causing you to have to wait longer than necessary to find an opponent in rated?[/quote:124yc7qy]
Rated is a competitive environment, not a casual one, made to have matches against good players. Play Unrated if you want to play a quick game/casual match.

[quote="Lil Oldman":cpy5sk7j][quote="Christen57":cpy5sk7j][quote="Lil Oldman":cpy5sk7j]
There's this thing called unrated which allows you to ask for specific opponents in the duel notes. If you get to manipulate who you match against then you are basically destroying the Ladder's integrity.[/quote:cpy5sk7j]

What about the option to pair up with the first opponent available for a quick game, instead of the system subjectively deciding who is "closest to your skill level" and trying to pair you up with that person, causing you to have to wait longer than necessary to find an opponent in rated?[/quote:cpy5sk7j]
Rated is a competitive environment, not a casual one, made to have matches against good players. Play Unrated if you want to play a quick game/casual match.[/quote:cpy5sk7j]

Maybe there should be a "Quick Queue," which takes less waiting but less predictable rating, and regular queue, with longer wait time but more predictable rating.

[quote="Sound4":2ce31ugi][quote="Renji Asuka":2ce31ugi][quote="Sound4":2ce31ugi]
Nice way to avoid a point. The conversation has been sealed.[/quote:2ce31ugi]
Your own evidence works against you.

We seen your replay list where you lost over and over.

You're not a good player, Unchained is still bad.

You don't know how to argue as you just argue in circles.

You act as if your points are not addressed when they were.

You act as if you debunked people when you haven't.

You act as if we are speaking in some other language that you don't understand when we haven't.[/quote:2ce31ugi]
Yet you fail to explain how my evidence works against me. You clearly have no more arguments.
https://www.duelingbook.com/replay?id=815175-40439894
https://www.duelingbook.com/replay?id=815175-40407305
https://www.duelingbook.com/replay?id=815175-40344564
https://www.duelingbook.com/replay?id=815175-40344266
https://www.duelingbook.com/replay?id=815175-40322082
5 straight wins with Unchained vs literally tier 1 and above decks yet unchained is suppost to be "trash".[/quote:2ce31ugi]
Which again, ANY DECK CAN BEAT ANY DECK. This argument explains why you win any games. This was already told to you multiple times.

Also if you were a good player, then why isn't your rating in the 1000+? Oh wait, it isn't.



In singles, you have a 28% win rate.

In Match, you have a 42% win rate.

Now tell me exactly how you are good let alone unchained?

Stats don't lie, you have a below 50% win rate.

If unchained WAS good, you'd have an above 50% win rate.

Your own evidence is anecdotal and cannot be considered.

[quote="troglyte":1kajjp01][quote="Lil Oldman":1kajjp01][quote="Christen57":1kajjp01]

What about the option to pair up with the first opponent available for a quick game, instead of the system subjectively deciding who is "closest to your skill level" and trying to pair you up with that person, causing you to have to wait longer than necessary to find an opponent in rated?[/quote:1kajjp01]
Rated is a competitive environment, not a casual one, made to have matches against good players. Play Unrated if you want to play a quick game/casual match.[/quote:1kajjp01]

Maybe there should be a "Quick Queue," which takes less waiting but less predictable rating, and regular queue, with longer wait time but more predictable rating.[/quote:1kajjp01]
More like "join unrated" and "join rated"

[quote="Christen57":1jeb15u0][quote="Wek":1jeb15u0][quote="Sound4":1jeb15u0]
Since I don't want to be facing low level decks?[/quote:1jeb15u0]

Then get a higher rating. If you are at beginner ratings, don't expect to be regularly facing anything better than beginner competition. It would be unfair to have beginner 300-400s to be paired with anything too wild on a regular basis.[/quote:1jeb15u0]

What about an option to let players with low rating/exp choose whether they want to face opponents with much higher ratings/exp or opponents with equal/similar ratings/exp?[/quote:1jeb15u0]

How would an opponent be paired against someone with a much lower rating though? Wouldn't they need an option to accept that? One dilemma I initially see is the easy boosting factor given you can pick such a narrow search radius as to be just about guaranteed to hit who you want if it's lopsided enough ratings-wise.

[quote="Wek":3cxzh0yx][quote="Christen57":3cxzh0yx][quote="Wek":3cxzh0yx]

Then get a higher rating. If you are at beginner ratings, don't expect to be regularly facing anything better than beginner competition. It would be unfair to have beginner 300-400s to be paired with anything too wild on a regular basis.[/quote:3cxzh0yx]

What about an option to let players with low rating/exp choose whether they want to face opponents with much higher ratings/exp or opponents with equal/similar ratings/exp?[/quote:3cxzh0yx]

How would an opponent be paired against someone with a much lower rating though? Wouldn't they need an option to accept that? One dilemma I initially see is the easy boosting factor given you can pick such a narrow search radius as to be just about guaranteed to hit who you want if it's lopsided enough ratings-wise.[/quote:3cxzh0yx]
Or you know, just get good.

[quote="Wek":tes1q3um][quote="Christen57":tes1q3um][quote="Wek":tes1q3um]

Then get a higher rating. If you are at beginner ratings, don't expect to be regularly facing anything better than beginner competition. It would be unfair to have beginner 300-400s to be paired with anything too wild on a regular basis.[/quote:tes1q3um]

What about an option to let players with low rating/exp choose whether they want to face opponents with much higher ratings/exp or opponents with equal/similar ratings/exp?[/quote:tes1q3um]

How would an opponent be paired against someone with a much lower rating though? Wouldn't they need an option to accept that? One dilemma I initially see is the easy boosting factor given you can pick such a narrow search radius as to be just about guaranteed to hit who you want if it's lopsided enough ratings-wise.[/quote:tes1q3um]

Boosting is already against the rules regardless of whether or not what I suggested gets implemented. If players admitting defeat repeatedly, the system will alert judges about that so they can investigate to determine if there's actual boosting going on.

[quote="Christen57":1hpx49gj][quote="Wek":1hpx49gj][quote="Christen57":1hpx49gj]

What about an option to let players with low rating/exp choose whether they want to face opponents with much higher ratings/exp or opponents with equal/similar ratings/exp?[/quote:1hpx49gj]

How would an opponent be paired against someone with a much lower rating though? Wouldn't they need an option to accept that? One dilemma I initially see is the easy boosting factor given you can pick such a narrow search radius as to be just about guaranteed to hit who you want if it's lopsided enough ratings-wise.[/quote:1hpx49gj]

Boosting is already against the rules regardless of whether or not what I suggested gets implemented. If players admitting defeat repeatedly, the system will alert judges about that so they can investigate to determine if there's actual boosting going on.[/quote:1hpx49gj]
That's like saying that drug abuse is illegal, but you also abolish the requirement for a Doctor's Prescription when buying medicine.

[quote="Renji Asuka":2d02dbwc][quote="Wek":2d02dbwc][quote="Christen57":2d02dbwc]

What about an option to let players with low rating/exp choose whether they want to face opponents with much higher ratings/exp or opponents with equal/similar ratings/exp?[/quote:2d02dbwc]

How would an opponent be paired against someone with a much lower rating though? Wouldn't they need an option to accept that? One dilemma I initially see is the easy boosting factor given you can pick such a narrow search radius as to be just about guaranteed to hit who you want if it's lopsided enough ratings-wise.[/quote:2d02dbwc]
Or you know, just get good.[/quote:2d02dbwc]

Not sure how your post relates to the most recent post I made that you quoted.

[quote="Christen57":1oh90gg1][quote="Wek":1oh90gg1][quote="Christen57":1oh90gg1]

What about an option to let players with low rating/exp choose whether they want to face opponents with much higher ratings/exp or opponents with equal/similar ratings/exp?[/quote:1oh90gg1]

How would an opponent be paired against someone with a much lower rating though? Wouldn't they need an option to accept that? One dilemma I initially see is the easy boosting factor given you can pick such a narrow search radius as to be just about guaranteed to hit who you want if it's lopsided enough ratings-wise.[/quote:1oh90gg1]

Boosting is already against the rules regardless of whether or not what I suggested gets implemented. If players admitting defeat repeatedly, the system will alert judges about that so they can investigate to determine if there's actual boosting going on.[/quote:1oh90gg1]

Something already being against the rules doesn't mean you create means to make it easier to do and harder to catch.
I'm not talking repeated admitting defeat boosting either, I'm talking positive rating boosting opportunities since you could then manipulate the rating range to effectively choose your opposing account so you can face accounts that will admit defeat for you, or be made as easy opposition.