Keep Revealed

[greg503]

IDK just try to agree on a way to communicate

[Shugunou]

Let me just be real with you. If you keep doing this, people won't want to play Duelingbook and the site will serve no purpose.

[drquantumscale]

If you aren't going to add these features, just let us use the counters how we like. Isn't the point of duelingbook's structure to allow people to improvise and not have limits to what they can do? If you really care so much about what duelingbook is about, why not let it be that way?

Because counters actually have a purpose and when you have spell counters and counters on things that dont use counters at once you cause confusion for no reason. you have a chat box to take nots on atk points "JUST LIKE IRL" and you have counters to place on monsters spells and traps that use them "JUST LIKE IRL There is no valid argument to put counters on your red gadget or appulousa or swords of revealing light when counters are not being placed on them via an effect. you have the same exact tool you have irl for your life points and the same exact tool irl to track all stat changes. This is not a videogame.

if you want all this to be automatic go play ygopro/devpro

What a gatekeepy way to avoid genuine criticism.

You say that there's no valid argument to put counters on a card without an effect putting it on there, right after somebody explains situations where it's very valuable, to not clog up the chat. Not to mention irl I've seen people use dice and counters to keep track of various things.

Adding a feature to keep track of long term information would streamline games amazingly. If everyone were to play like you suggest using only chat to keep track of equipped cards, appolousa etc, a huge chunk of game time would be spent scrolling up in chat to check information that could've been tracked easily. Would you still be saying this if LP were tracked through chat, and you had to scroll up every time you wanted to check your opponent's LP value? Hell, take out attacking too, you don't have arrows that point to monster irl, use the chat for that too. If you don't like it? Too bad, this isn't a video game, go to ygopro/devpro. This mindset doesn't hold up.

Also "Communicate using the chat" is quite possibly the worst argument when there's a button to declare an effect on the field, possibly one of the easiest things to communicate. Much easier than saying a value, and afterwards needing to scroll up the chat to see what the value is every time you want to consider a move.

[Genexwrecker]

If you aren't going to add these features, just let us use the counters how we like. Isn't the point of duelingbook's structure to allow people to improvise and not have limits to what they can do? If you really care so much about what duelingbook is about, why not let it be that way?

Because counters actually have a purpose and when you have spell counters and counters on things that dont use counters at once you cause confusion for no reason. you have a chat box to take nots on atk points "JUST LIKE IRL" and you have counters to place on monsters spells and traps that use them "JUST LIKE IRL There is no valid argument to put counters on your red gadget or appulousa or swords of revealing light when counters are not being placed on them via an effect. you have the same exact tool you have irl for your life points and the same exact tool irl to track all stat changes. This is not a videogame.

if you want all this to be automatic go play ygopro/devpro

What a gatekeepy way to avoid genuine criticism.

You say that there's no valid argument to put counters on a card without an effect putting it on there, right after somebody explains situations where it's very valuable, to not clog up the chat. Not to mention irl I've seen people use dice and counters to keep track of various things.

Adding a feature to keep track of long term information would streamline games amazingly. If everyone were to play like you suggest using only chat to keep track of equipped cards, appolousa etc, a huge chunk of game time would be spent scrolling up in chat to check information that could've been tracked easily. Would you still be saying this if LP were tracked through chat, and you had to scroll up every time you wanted to check your opponent's LP value? Hell, take out attacking too, you don't have arrows that point to monster irl, use the chat for that too. If you don't like it? Too bad, this isn't a video game, go to ygopro/devpro. This mindset doesn't hold up.

Also "Communicate using the chat" is quite possibly the worst argument when there's a button to declare an effect on the field, possibly one of the easiest things to communicate. Much easier than saying a value, and afterwards needing to scroll up the chat to see what the value is every time you want to consider a move.

again you all don’t seem to understand what the chat is. There is no way to clog up the chat as the chat is solely for note taking and communication that is entirely why it is there the declare button was not put there because it was needed it was added because people were too lazy to type and even now they still don’t declare effects

[greg503]

WHAT MATTERS IS THAT BOTH PLAYERS AGREE HOW TO COMMUNICATE

[drquantumscale]

again you all don’t seem to understand what the chat is. There is no way to clog up the chat as the chat is solely for note taking and communication that is entirely why it is there the declare button was not put there because it was needed it was added because people were too lazy to type and even now they still don’t declare effects

You don't seem to understand what clogging the chat is. If Apollousa is summoned using 4 material, and uses it's effect twice, the amount of atk on it has to be tracked by both players. If we use counters, or whatever other feature is available, a player can look at the card and figure out how much attack it has. If you solely use the chat, then in order to figure it out you need to scroll through chat, maybe even open the log to see how many material were used, and pray that you didn't miss over the right message saying "eff". I'm not sure what part of this process doesn't seem "clogged" to you.

Also if we assume the player base is the kind you suggest who are "too lazy to type", then how the hell would they be able to partake in this weird dance of communication.

[Genexwrecker]

again you all don’t seem to understand what the chat is. There is no way to clog up the chat as the chat is solely for note taking and communication that is entirely why it is there the declare button was not put there because it was needed it was added because people were too lazy to type and even now they still don’t declare effects

You don't seem to understand what clogging the chat is. If Apollousa is summoned using 4 material, and uses it's effect twice, the amount of atk on it has to be tracked by both players. If we use counters, or whatever other feature is available, a player can look at the card and figure out how much attack it has. If you solely use the chat, then in order to figure it out you need to scroll through chat, maybe even open the log to see how many material were used, and pray that you didn't miss over the right message saying "eff". I'm not sure what part of this process doesn't seem "clogged" to you.

Also if we assume the player base is the kind you suggest who are "too lazy to type", then how the hell would they be able to partake in this weird dance of communication.

Works exactly like notes at a ycs

[Christen57]

again you all don’t seem to understand what the chat is. There is no way to clog up the chat as the chat is solely for note taking and communication that is entirely why it is there the declare button was not put there because it was needed it was added because people were too lazy to type and even now they still don’t declare effects

You don't seem to understand what clogging the chat is. If Apollousa is summoned using 4 material, and uses it's effect twice, the amount of atk on it has to be tracked by both players. If we use counters, or whatever other feature is available, a player can look at the card and figure out how much attack it has. If you solely use the chat, then in order to figure it out you need to scroll through chat, maybe even open the log to see how many material were used, and pray that you didn't miss over the right message saying "eff". I'm not sure what part of this process doesn't seem "clogged" to you.

Also if we assume the player base is the kind you suggest who are "too lazy to type", then how the hell would they be able to partake in this weird dance of communication.

Works exactly like notes at a ycs

This isn't a ycs though. This is an online simulator that already has features that make dueling easier that do not exist as a ycs, such as digital life point meters, logs, an ability to shuffle the hand and deck quickly with the click of a button without having to pass decks back and forth for them to be "cut," and so on. This isn't meant to be like a ycs. This is meant to be better and faster than that.

The chat most certainly will get clogged and cluttered to the point where people will spend a lot of time just scrolling up to see what things were, especially when you have multiple changing cards that you need to keep track of, such as multiple Decatrons copying different Infernoid monsters, Homunculus changing to different attributes, apollousa and dragoon with changing attack value, F.A. monsters constantly changing attack value based on their levels, swords of revealing light with number of turns remaining, cards like final countdown and wave-motion cannon that needs you to keep track of certain turns passing, and so on.

There have already been a lot of judge calls in the past over people slow playing or people who don't like how long it's taking for the opponent to scroll up a chat or log just to see a change that happened previously when that change could just be made visible on a face-up card on the field. A change like this could solve many of those issues.

It's already possible to make it so you can mark face-up cards, put different colored counters on cards, and so on. It's just that with these javascript codes I make, the changes aren't visible to the other player. Duelingbook can very easily make real changes like this that will be visible to both players, making duels go by faster and leading to less judge calls about people slow playing, thus saving the judges time too.

Speaking of counters, they should change it so that it's more like Untap.in where instead of manually dragging the counter to the card to place the counter on it and then manually dragging the counter off the card to remove the counter, we simply click an option to place the counter on it, then left click the counter to add a counter and right click the counter to remove the counter. It would be way faster than manually dragging counters around, especially for cards where I'm placing or removing several counters at once, like Apollousa with 4 materials, those B.E.S. spaceship-theme monsters that place 3 counters at a time, Link Turret which places 4 counters on it at once, and that new Level 4 FIRE Beast monster with that effect that places 6 counters on it at once.

[Genexwrecker]

rated is meant to simulate competitive irl play as much as possible and the chat can never be clogged as you literally have a filter for the game chat to find what you need within a second. the fact nobody uses the search feature on the chat shows just how little people actually care to play the game.

[greg503]

If a shortcut exists people tend to use them, as long as both players are on the same page then it's fine.

[Christen57]

rated is meant to simulate competitive irl play as much as possible and the chat can never be clogged as you literally have a filter for the game chat to find what you need within a second. the fact nobody uses the search feature on the chat shows just how little people actually care to play the game.

So instead of scrolling up the chat logs to see each change on each of all these changing cards, you want people to type in the logs the name of cards, scroll up to see their changes, then erase what they typed, then type the name of another card, then scroll up again to see the changes for that card too, then repeat this process over and over until they've figured out all of the changes? You realize that would take even longer than what's been suggested so far, and not really "within a second"?

[Christen57]

Counters should not be used for cards that don’t use counters. You have a chat to type elephant is equipped or what just like you communicate irl if I join a game and see counters on multiple cards that don’t use them they will be asked to remove them. This includes but is k no or limited to Appulosa , equip cards, field spells, any using of it for declaring effects. It is problematic when I join games that have spellcounters and counters on appulosa

Well guess what? Another judge just ruled that we may use counters to keep track of things even if the card doesn't specifically say that it uses counters, so hah!

https://www.duelingbook.com/replay?id=23008431
https://www.duelingbook.com/log?id=23008431

[27:17] Ended turn
[27:18] Placed a counter on "Final Countdown" in M-4 (now 1)
[27:24] Pointed at "Final Countdown" in M-4
[27:35] "goes to the gy"
[27:44] "Ye but this is easier to keep track o"
[27:46] "of*"
[27:58] "So i can put counters on it for each turn passed"
[28:34] "u can t do that"
[28:39] "I know"
[28:43] "final countdown must go to the gy"
[28:48] "But it's just easier to keep track of it this way"
[28:52] "It won't change anything"
[29:07] Called a judge for Ruling
[29:24] "yugioh's rules"
[29:25] "sry"
[29:27] "I know!"
[29:33] "not my rules"
[29:34] "But it's just so we can keep easier track of it"
[29:40] "I'm not abusing anything here"
[29:48] "u're in ranked so u must respect rules"
[29:50] "Just trying to make it easier for both of us to keep track of the counter on it"
[29:54] Resource Judge #1245 entered the game
[29:59] Resource Judge #1245: "hi, issue?"
[30:04] "hi judge"
[30:11] "my oppo activated countdown"
[30:28] "but my oppo want countdown stay on field7"
[30:46] ""want" is a big word"
[30:49] Resource Judge #1245: "they can leave it on the field and place counters on it, as long as it is made clear to both players why it is there"
[30:56] "idk how to say othely"
[31:00] "otherly*"
[31:14] "judge"
[31:15] "Is it clear to you why it's there?"
[31:18] "irl is impossible"
[31:30] "so why on db should it be different ?"
[31:36] Resource Judge #1245: "dadathekid it is on field to demonstrate how many turns have passed"
[31:39] Resource Judge #1245: "do you understand this?"
[31:49] "yes but it s his pb "
[31:51] "our pb"
[31:59] Resource Judge #1245: "what is a pb?"
[32:15] "i think irl my oppo can t leave it on field"
[32:28] Resource Judge #1245: "well irl your opponent can track turns with a dice"
[32:35] Resource Judge #1245: "we do not have that function on db"
[32:36] "Was just about to say that"
[32:39] Resource Judge #1245: "they can leave it on field it's fine"
[32:48] "yes but it s not the rule"
[32:56] "Thank you Judge"
[33:02] "do u know yugioh's rule judge ?"
[33:14] "Damnnn he just actually asked that"
[33:14] Resource Judge #1245: "dadathekid I am telling you they can leave it on field and put counters as it is made clear to both players why it is there"
[33:17] Resource Judge #1245: "proceed with the duel"
[33:23] "Thank you again judge"

[Genexwrecker]

I really dont care what coder ruled in X game in general the card is not supposed to physically on the ifeld and can affect gameplay.

[D4rkPrince]

that's one more reason why the turn counter might be a thing , even just in the logs