I dont id as a male or female so please change that

[Christen57]

You do have the option to hide your gender as multiple people already pointed out that you can leave the thing blank instead of picking male or female. That counts as "removing it" and thus fits your criteria of it being "removed".

Some parts of the world doing it a long time ago doesn't make it valid today. I'm sure Rome and Greece also, for a long time, believed in their Gods and pseudosciences, and believed in witches/witchcraft, human sacrifices/rituals, preserving the corpses of pharaohs so they could have the appropriate body needed to move on to the afterlife, and so on, and I bet that they abandoned all of this once science and technology were introduced and evolved to disprove many of these things.

No one in history has ever had either of those chromosome combinations as far as I'm aware.

Then what is your basis for a binary system if its not based on anything "from the past"? What about the very modern examples like japan that celebrates fluid sexuality, and no greese and rome did not abandoned non binary persons as technology evolved it cannot be compared to religiious culture which changed every time a new army took over a town because non binary was an understood norm.

What genders do Japan have besides male and female?

Also leaving it blank is not removing it, it would be like if the options for race included everything but yours, and you had no option to add it, so you had to leave it blank when identifying yourself, how would that feel?

Unlike the stuff you're making up, there's proof that race/skin-color exists. You on the other hand have yet to show people with the supposed "YY" and "XXY" chromosomes you keep bringing up.

[Excellion]

I really wanted to stay out of this debate entirely and frankly this thread should had been locked earlier. I been around twitter too long dealing with LGBTQ+ nonsense. But I'm left with no choice.

First, let's cut the crap regarding "Gender is a social construct"

The idea that gender is a social construct is relatively new by a very screwed up individuals being one of the founders to the idea. John Money, who raised a pair of twin boys. One as a boy, and one as a girl. He forced the one that was raised as a girl to be in sexual submissive poses while taking pictures, forced to grow their hair out, forced to wear dresses and play with dolls. He declared his experiment as a success.

Meanwhile the one raised as a girl played with his brother's toys in secret. 1 twin died from drug overdose. The other died from blowing his brains out with a sawn off shotgun.

If you still believe that gender is a social construct after learning this, then you quite literally support this experiment which would show how terrible of a person you really are.

Also important to note: DO NOT GIVE IN TO THE DELUSIONS OF THE MENTALLY ILL. Would you give into the delusions of a schizophrenic person? No, it's dangerous for everyone involved. Why would you do the same for people who don't know which bathroom to use? Do not expect me to call you by your preferred crap. If you have a fully functional vagina, you are a woman. End of story. If you have a fully functional penis you are a man. End of story. A woman cannot be a man and a man cannot be a woman. There is no "ands, if's or but" about it.

So ignore the fact that heteronormative behavior like "pray the gay away" camps do the same thing... no it isnt a modern concept, infact it was only really an issue around Regans run as president in his "war on drugs" which was confirmed to be about breaking up gay and black communities by associating them strictly to drugs crime and sexual hedinism.

[greg503]

Just be polite and ask others to do the same. If they don't, ask them why. Have a conversation with these people because getting to know each other is how we get people to stop assuming they know more about you and your position

[Excellion]

You do have the option to hide your gender as multiple people already pointed out that you can leave the thing blank instead of picking male or female. That counts as "removing it" and thus fits your criteria of it being "removed".





No one in history has ever had either of those chromosome combinations as far as I'm aware.

Then what is your basis for a binary system if its not based on anything "from the past"? What about the very modern examples like japan that celebrates fluid sexuality, and no greese and rome did not abandoned non binary persons as technology evolved it cannot be compared to religiious culture which changed every time a new army took over a town because non binary was an understood norm.

What genders do Japan have besides male and female?

Also leaving it blank is not removing it, it would be like if the options for race included everything but yours, and you had no option to add it, so you had to leave it blank when identifying yourself, how would that feel?

Unlike the stuff you're making up, there's proof that race/skin-color exists. You on the other hand have yet to show people with the supposed "YY" and "XXY" chromosomes you keep bringing up.

Third gender is "Wakashu" and i literally cited a medical journal discussing people with xxy chromosones and intersexal previously but heres another one:

https://www.jstor.org/stable/3813612

[Renji Asuka]

gonna be honest just because you are some freak that doesn't fit nicely into 1 or the other category doesn't mean that categorization is wrong, there are always outliers to say otherwise but 1 in a million people can't change the whole way to categorize things. im sure even if you don't fit nicely there are ways to categorize you but if you are an outlier you don't change a thing

And yet we make special products to accomidate ginger people who are 1.5% of the population, between 2 and 3%of children are born disabled yet we still make accomidations for them, so are you calling them entitled? also by that logic humans make up less than 1% of the total population of the earth? Yet we change things to make it easier for us.

1 for gingers its a fucking hair color and its an easy market to get buyers and in certain counties people don't make products for them cause different countries have different concentrations of red heads.
2 depending on the disability yea we put to many resources into them.
3 we are the top dogs on the planet and a similar number applies to most other shit.
in the end no one is entitled to shit for others

Just wanted to add onto 3.

Humans aren't the only species that changes the environment around them to suit their needs.

[Excellion]

if non binary shit has been around for hundreds of years, I would have known about it. other than gods not having confirmed genders or are more of a concept or place, I really doubt anything like that could be applied anywhere else people understood what is the truth and what is delusion and sadly that's dying out now.

on the whole transgender athlete thing, the whole testosterone level thing doesn't really matter now due to them going their whole lives on that boost and its effects don't just disappear they probably wont be as good before they transitioned but they will never be on the same level as the avg women.

with the thing about violence against trans people in bathrooms and I cant exactly say im against that, they are in a place they shouldn't be and their delusion doesn't change the rules so people enforce them and we ignore the opportunity predators get to assualt people using this as an excuse to get in. also, we just gonna ignore discrimination against people in the workplace just because they feel uncomfortable with these people in their bathrooms and the laws mandating certain amounts of people are dumb aswell.

no one should have to take part in your delusion end of story.

Then no one should have to participate in the "delusion" of a binary system either, which is why it should be removed.

[Renji Asuka]

I really wanted to stay out of this debate entirely and frankly this thread should had been locked earlier. I been around twitter too long dealing with LGBTQ+ nonsense. But I'm left with no choice.

First, let's cut the crap regarding "Gender is a social construct"

The idea that gender is a social construct is relatively new by a very screwed up individuals being one of the founders to the idea. John Money, who raised a pair of twin boys. One as a boy, and one as a girl. He forced the one that was raised as a girl to be in sexual submissive poses while taking pictures, forced to grow their hair out, forced to wear dresses and play with dolls. He declared his experiment as a success.

Meanwhile the one raised as a girl played with his brother's toys in secret. 1 twin died from drug overdose. The other died from blowing his brains out with a sawn off shotgun.

If you still believe that gender is a social construct after learning this, then you quite literally support this experiment which would show how terrible of a person you really are.

Also important to note: DO NOT GIVE IN TO THE DELUSIONS OF THE MENTALLY ILL. Would you give into the delusions of a schizophrenic person? No, it's dangerous for everyone involved. Why would you do the same for people who don't know which bathroom to use? Do not expect me to call you by your preferred crap. If you have a fully functional vagina, you are a woman. End of story. If you have a fully functional penis you are a man. End of story. A woman cannot be a man and a man cannot be a woman. There is no "ands, if's or but" about it.

So ignore the fact that heteronormative behavior like "pray the gay away" camps do the same thing... no it isnt a modern concept, infact it was only really an issue around Regans run as president in his "war on drugs" which was confirmed to be about breaking up gay and black communities by associating them strictly to drugs crime and sexual hedinism.

Did I stutter?

[Excellion]

gonna be honest just because you are some freak that doesn't fit nicely into 1 or the other category doesn't mean that categorization is wrong, there are always outliers to say otherwise but 1 in a million people can't change the whole way to categorize things. im sure even if you don't fit nicely there are ways to categorize you but if you are an outlier you don't change a thing

And yet we make special products to accomidate ginger people who are 1.5% of the population, between 2 and 3%of children are born disabled yet we still make accomidations for them, so are you calling them entitled? also by that logic humans make up less than 1% of the total population of the earth? Yet we change things to make it easier for us.

1 for gingers its a fucking hair color and its an easy market to get buyers and in certain counties people don't make products for them cause different countries have different concentrations of red heads.
2 depending on the disability yea we put to many resources into them.
3 we are the top dogs on the planet and a similar number applies to most other shit.
in the end no one is entitled to shit for others

1. There is a market for gender neautral and gender fluid clothes even for people who arent non binary.
2.yea.. we put a lot of resources into 2-3% of the populations... so are they "entitled", if not: why are they then different from non binary people, if so, youre a bad person.
3. We are less than 1% of the population yet all change to the earth is for our betterment, does that mean every human is entitled?

[greg503]

1. There is a market for gender neautral and gender fluid clothes even for people who arent non binary.

#WomenWantPocketsToo

[Excellion]

So to sum up your arguments:
"Non binary isnt real"
Yes they are, biologically there are, socially there are, there are medical journals discussing these facts that ive now listed several times discussing them.
"We shouldnt be accomidating a few people"
First off, i thought you said there werent any "non-binarys" now there are but theyre a minority? And you dont want to give them something as small as a drop down menu option... well if youve met a person who has red hair, its as likely youve met someone who is intersex.
"There is an option to remove your gender, leave it blank"
Theres an option to leave a blank comment, do you feel included in the co versation if you do? No? Funny how that works.
"We shouldnt change for some new fad"
Well 1. Its not new has existed for thousands of years in cultures all over the world in some of the most civilized nations of the world.
"Just because old cultures did it doesnt make it right"
But i thought you said its a "new fad" also, society is built off older cultures, so what are we then basing the binary system on if not something older?

In summery, youre all entitled hypocrites.

[Renji Asuka]

1. There is a market for gender neautral and gender fluid clothes even for people who arent non binary.

#WomenWantPocketsToo

The fact that women can't get good pants with pockets really irks me.

[Christen57]

1.7% of the total population is.
https://www.americanprogress.org/articl ... variations.

You have to use [url] tags when linking stuff or else the url will be replaced with "..."

You do it like this:

Code: Select all

[url]www.example.com[/url]

So it appears as this:

http://www.example.com

https://www.americanprogress.org/article/key-issues-facing-people-intersex-traits/#:~:text=It%20is%20estimated%20that%20up,identifiable%20sexual%20or%20reproductive%20variations
Thank you.

So your source is saying a few people are estimated to have "an intersex trait". Does it say what chromosome combinations these people were born with?

people see "memeglish" as their primary language on their account and thats fine

I'm guessing this is because there are over 90 different languages in existence, so duelingbook's staff decided to let people type their language instead of putting dropdown menus for all 90+ of them, whereas with genders, since there are only 2 of those, it's easier to put a dropdown menu for those 2.

but youre really gonna be offended if someone puts "attack helicopter' as their gender?

No. I'm gonna think that person's trolling or trying to be funny like how I find it funny people are listing Memeglish as their language.

Third gender is "Wakashu" and i literally cited a medical journal discussing people with xxy chromosones and intersexal previously

You only cited these so far in this thread:
https://www.americanprogress.org/article/key-issues-facing-people-intersex-traits/
https://www.apa.org/pi/ses/resources/publications/lgbt
https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/press/ncvs-lgbt-violence-press-release/
None of which mention anything about anyone with specifically XXY or YY chromosomes... or do I have to check an additional thing cited within one of these 3 articles to find it?

but heres another one:
https://www.jstor.org/stable/3813612

This source confirms that some males can be born with certain physical genitalia which appear to be female-looking, and vice versa, but it still confirms what Genexwrecker and myself have been telling you: That regardless of what these things are you're born with, you're still ultimately male if you have XY chromosomes and female if you have XX chromosomes.

Then no one should have to participate in the "delusion" of a binary system either, which is why it should be removed.

But in order for living beings to reproduce, it has to be clear to both genders who's male and who's female, which is why you don't see a male and another male (or a female and another female) attempting to reproduce. That's not a delusion. That's basic biology. In reproduction, the male is responsible for fertilizing the woman's egg. If a female thinks she is male, she will expect to be able to fertilize another woman's egg, and if a male thinks he is female, he's expect to be fertilized by another man. Humanity can't reproduce if people think like this.

"Just because old cultures did it doesnt make it right"
But i thought you said its a "new fad" also

New in North America. Old in those Roman, Greek, and Japanese locations you listed.

In summery, youre all entitled hypocrites.

Insulting us doesn't help your case and makes us less likely to listen to you and actually implement the change(s) you've suggested.

[PENMASTER]

in the end no one is ever entitled to anything unless they were promised it or worked for it anything else just because you feel like it or were born a certain way you will never be entitled to anything

[Renji Asuka]

in the end no one is ever entitled to anything unless they were promised it or worked for it anything else just because you feel like it or were born a certain way you will never be entitled to anything

Disabled people are accommodated with alternate mobility options or information options and should be.

[PENMASTER]

And yet we make special products to accomidate ginger people who are 1.5% of the population, between 2 and 3%of children are born disabled yet we still make accomidations for them, so are you calling them entitled? also by that logic humans make up less than 1% of the total population of the earth? Yet we change things to make it easier for us.

1 for gingers its a fucking hair color and its an easy market to get buyers and in certain counties people don't make products for them cause different countries have different concentrations of red heads.
2 depending on the disability yea we put to many resources into them.
3 we are the top dogs on the planet and a similar number applies to most other shit.
in the end no one is entitled to shit for others

1. There is a market for gender neautral and gender fluid clothes even for people who arent non binary.
2.yea.. we put a lot of resources into 2-3% of the populations... so are they "entitled", if not: why are they then different from non binary people, if so, youre a bad person.
3. We are less than 1% of the population yet all change to the earth is for our betterment, does that mean every human is entitled?

lol did you really compare non binary people to the disabled. they arent entitled just because someone was born that way and even worse for you, you choose to feel that way so you arent entitled to anyone else's work or having something changed cause it doesn't accommodate what you feel

[Excellion]

You have to use [url] tags when linking stuff or else the url will be replaced with "..."

You do it like this:

Code: Select all

[url]www.example.com[/url]

So it appears as this:

http://www.example.com

https://www.americanprogress.org/article/key-issues-facing-people-intersex-traits/#:~:text=It%20is%20estimated%20that%20up,identifiable%20sexual%20or%20reproductive%20variations
Thank you.

So your source is saying a few people are estimated to have "an intersex trait". Does it say what chromosome combinations these people were born with?

Yes, it does and xxy chromsomes even have a name, its called "Klinefelter syndrome" [url]https://medlineplus.gov/genetics/condition/klinefelter-syndrome/
[/url]

people see "memeglish" as their primary language on their account and thats fine

Then why would it matter what they put as their gender? What issues would arrise from letting people put whatever they want? Its not a coding issue, it would just be copy paste the code for the textbox entry from the "language" setting and pasting it into the "gender" element, deleting the dropdown element and making sure it gets checked when viewing a profile.

I'm guessing this is because there are over 90 different languages in existence, so duelingbook's staff decided to let people type their language instead of putting dropdown menus for all 90+ of them, whereas with genders, since there are only 2 of those, it's easier to put a dropdown menu for those 2.

It wouldnt be, see above example, would take 10 minutes to change in html5.

but youre really gonna be offended if someone puts "attack helicopter' as their gender?

No. I'm gonna think that person's trolling or trying to be funny like how I find it funny people are listing Memeglish as their language.

Right... then why shouldnt gender be any different?

Third gender is "Wakashu" and i literally cited a medical journal discussing people with xxy chromosones and intersexal previously

You only cited these so far in this thread:
https://www.americanprogress.org/article/key-issues-facing-people-intersex-traits/
https://www.apa.org/pi/ses/resources/publications/lgbt
https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/press/ncvs-lgbt-violence-press-release/
None of which mention anything about anyone with specifically XXY or YY chromosomes... or do I have to check an additional thing cited within one of these 3 articles to find it?

"Lost third gender of japan" covers it.

but heres another one:
https://www.jstor.org/stable/3813612

This source confirms that some males can be born with certain physical genitalia which appear to be female-looking, and vice versa, but it still confirms what Genexwrecker and myself have been telling you: That regardless of what these things are you're born with, you're still ultimately male if you have XY chromosomes and female if you have XX chromosomes.

Not genetically... which was the point youre bith trying to make, if its a binary system then there are only xy or xx, if its xxy or xyy or yy, it is not, by your definition, a male or female, thats the point.

Then no one should have to participate in the "delusion" of a binary system either, which is why it should be removed.

But in order for living beings to reproduce, it has to be clear to both genders who's male and who's female, which is why you don't see a male and another male (or a female and another female) attempting to reproduce. That's not a delusion. That's basic biology. In reproduction, the male is responsible for fertilizing the woman's egg. If a female thinks she is male, she will expect to be able to fertilize another woman's egg, and if a male thinks he is female, he's expect to be fertilized by another man. Humanity can't reproduce if people think like this.

Yes, they can artifical incemination can be done between 2 females using bone marrow to inceminate an egg, the product is always a women but there are no birth defects... nice try thiught.

"Just because old cultures did it doesnt make it right"
But i thought you said its a "new fad" also

New in North America. Old in those Roman, Greek, and Japanese locations you listed.

First off who decides what is considered "new" and "old" and who said north america sets the standards for social norms?

In summery, youre all entitled hypocrites.

Insulting us doesn't help your case and makes us less likely to listen to you and actually implement the change(s) you've suggested.

So the people calling none binaries freaks misfits entitled amd defects cant stand being called entitled hypocrites...? Shocker.

[Excellion]

in the end no one is ever entitled to anything unless they were promised it or worked for it anything else just because you feel like it or were born a certain way you will never be entitled to anything

And what exactly have you done to earn your basic human rights?

[Renji Asuka]

in the end no one is ever entitled to anything unless they were promised it or worked for it anything else just because you feel like it or were born a certain way you will never be entitled to anything

And what exactly have you done to earn your basic human rights?

You don't EARN rights. They'd be a privilege at that point.

[Excellion]

1 for gingers its a fucking hair color and its an easy market to get buyers and in certain counties people don't make products for them cause different countries have different concentrations of red heads.
2 depending on the disability yea we put to many resources into them.
3 we are the top dogs on the planet and a similar number applies to most other shit.
in the end no one is entitled to shit for others

1. There is a market for gender neautral and gender fluid clothes even for people who arent non binary.
2.yea.. we put a lot of resources into 2-3% of the populations... so are they "entitled", if not: why are they then different from non binary people, if so, youre a bad person.
3. We are less than 1% of the population yet all change to the earth is for our betterment, does that mean every human is entitled?

lol did you really compare non binary people to the disabled. they arent entitled just because someone was born that way and even worse for you, you choose to feel that way so you arent entitled to anyone else's work or having something changed cause it doesn't accommodate what you feel

Then you arent entitled to an opinion on the subject as youve dont nothing to earn one?

[Excellion]

in the end no one is ever entitled to anything unless they were promised it or worked for it anything else just because you feel like it or were born a certain way you will never be entitled to anything

And what exactly have you done to earn your basic human rights?

You don't EARN rights. They'd be a privilege at that point.

And its someones right to identify and govern their own bodies, it goes both ways.