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Re: Game Related Question
Posted: Sat May 14, 2022 9:20 am
by Wek
Fredblade wrote:If a monster in the Extra Monster Zone changes control or leaves the field temporarily, it has to go to the Main Monster Zone, the Extra Monster Zone is only used when a monster is Special Summoned from the Extra Deck, you cannot place monsters in the Extra Monster Zone by any other method but summoning it from the Extra Deck. If there is no main monster zones available when the monster has to return to that field, it gets sent to the GY by game mechanics, what's the thing that is different in that ruling? Is the same thing.
Wek wrote:I find it a bit strange
that control change wearing off without available zones isn't destruction while control change is, but the one ruling I see on control change wearing off indicated this one detail differed.
https://db.ygorganization.com/qa#20771
If you try to take control of a monster with an effect and have no available zones at resolution, that monster is destroyed. If your control change wears off on a monster and there's no available zones, it's sent to the GY.
Re: Game Related Question
Posted: Sat May 14, 2022 12:21 pm
by Cromat
Wek wrote:Fredblade wrote:If a monster in the Extra Monster Zone changes control or leaves the field temporarily, it has to go to the Main Monster Zone, the Extra Monster Zone is only used when a monster is Special Summoned from the Extra Deck, you cannot place monsters in the Extra Monster Zone by any other method but summoning it from the Extra Deck. If there is no main monster zones available when the monster has to return to that field, it gets sent to the GY by game mechanics, what's the thing that is different in that ruling? Is the same thing.
Wek wrote:I find it a bit strange
that control change wearing off without available zones isn't destruction while control change is, but the one ruling I see on control change wearing off indicated this one detail differed.
https://db.ygorganization.com/qa#20771
If you try to take control of a monster with an effect and have no available zones at resolution, that monster is destroyed. If your control change wears off on a monster and there's no available zones, it's sent to the GY.
I don't understand what you mean there, Wek(: If you try to take control of a monster with an effect and have no available zones at resolution, that monster is destroyed. [1]).(Wek: If your control change wears off on a monster and there's no available zones, it's sent to the GY. [2])I did not understand what did you mean at [1]. If I make my all Main Monster Zones and 1 my opponent's Main Monster Zone unusable by activating 3 "
Ground Collapse", when I activated "
Brain Control" and took control of "
Silent Wobby" (for example) which was in my opponent's field, that "
Silent Wobby" gonna be destroyed; according to your sentence [1]?
Re: Game Related Question
Posted: Sat May 14, 2022 1:21 pm
by greg503
Cromat wrote:Wek wrote:Fredblade wrote:If a monster in the Extra Monster Zone changes control or leaves the field temporarily, it has to go to the Main Monster Zone, the Extra Monster Zone is only used when a monster is Special Summoned from the Extra Deck, you cannot place monsters in the Extra Monster Zone by any other method but summoning it from the Extra Deck. If there is no main monster zones available when the monster has to return to that field, it gets sent to the GY by game mechanics, what's the thing that is different in that ruling? Is the same thing.
Wek wrote:I find it a bit strange
that control change wearing off without available zones isn't destruction while control change is, but the one ruling I see on control change wearing off indicated this one detail differed.
https://db.ygorganization.com/qa#20771
If you try to take control of a monster with an effect and have no available zones at resolution, that monster is destroyed. If your control change wears off on a monster and there's no available zones, it's sent to the GY.
I don't understand what you mean there, Wek(: If you try to take control of a monster with an effect and have no available zones at resolution, that monster is destroyed. [1]).(Wek: If your control change wears off on a monster and there's no available zones, it's sent to the GY. [2])I did not understand what did you mean at [1]. If I make my all Main Monster Zones and 1 my opponent's Main Monster Zone unusable by activating 3 "
Ground Collapse", when I activated "
Brain Control" and took control of "
Silent Wobby" (for example) which was in my opponent's field, that "
Silent Wobby" gonna be destroyed; according to your sentence [1]?
Here's an example, you control 4 monster in MMZs, you activate Mind Control and chain Call of the Haunted to bring back a monster in your GY. CotH resolves first, filling your last MMZ, then Mind Control resolves, and you have no available zones, destroying the target instead
Re: Game Related Question
Posted: Sat May 14, 2022 3:24 pm
by Fredblade
Cromat wrote:Wek wrote:Fredblade wrote:If a monster in the Extra Monster Zone changes control or leaves the field temporarily, it has to go to the Main Monster Zone, the Extra Monster Zone is only used when a monster is Special Summoned from the Extra Deck, you cannot place monsters in the Extra Monster Zone by any other method but summoning it from the Extra Deck. If there is no main monster zones available when the monster has to return to that field, it gets sent to the GY by game mechanics, what's the thing that is different in that ruling? Is the same thing.
Wek wrote:I find it a bit strange
that control change wearing off without available zones isn't destruction while control change is, but the one ruling I see on control change wearing off indicated this one detail differed.
https://db.ygorganization.com/qa#20771
If you try to take control of a monster with an effect and have no available zones at resolution, that monster is destroyed. If your control change wears off on a monster and there's no available zones, it's sent to the GY.
I don't understand what you mean there, Wek(: If you try to take control of a monster with an effect and have no available zones at resolution, that monster is destroyed. [1]).(Wek: If your control change wears off on a monster and there's no available zones, it's sent to the GY. [2])I did not understand what did you mean at [1]. If I make my all Main Monster Zones and 1 my opponent's Main Monster Zone unusable by activating 3 "
Ground Collapse", when I activated "
Brain Control" and took control of "
Silent Wobby" (for example) which was in my opponent's field, that "
Silent Wobby" gonna be destroyed; according to your sentence [1]?
You cannot legally activate Brain Control if you have no available main monster zones in your field to place that monster.
Re: Game Related Question
Posted: Sat May 14, 2022 4:13 pm
by Cromat
Fredblade wrote:You cannot legally activate Brain Control if you have no available main monster zones in your field to place that monster.
Yes, I know that too. I asked because of it, to understand what Wek actually meant.
Re: Game Related Question
Posted: Sat May 14, 2022 4:32 pm
by Fredblade
Cromat wrote:Fredblade wrote:You cannot legally activate Brain Control if you have no available main monster zones in your field to place that monster.
Yes, I know that too. I asked because of it, to understand what Wek actually meant.
You can activate Brain Control, then chain something that would block your zones, so at resolution the card that blocks the zones resolves first and then the Brain Control when it resolves there's no zones left so the monster it's attempting to take control of gets sent to the GY by game mechanics.
Another thing is that mandatory effect always activate independently of you having legal targets or not, for example the Charmers FLIP monsters will always activate their effect of taking control of an opponent's monster, even if you have already a full field, and the monster they targeted (if any) would get send to the GY by game mechanics at resolution.
Re: Game Related Question
Posted: Sat May 14, 2022 11:39 pm
by Genexwrecker
If a monster is taken control of an effect such as mind control or brain control when the control of the monster is supposed to return to the original controller and they have no zones to place the monster in that monster is sent to the gy by game mechanics. It is considered destroyed.
Re: Game Related Question
Posted: Sat May 14, 2022 11:57 pm
by greg503
Genexwrecker wrote:If a monster is taken control of an effect such as mind control or brain control when the control of the monster is supposed to return to the original controller and they have no zones to place the monster in that monster is sent to the gy by game mechanics. It is not considered destroyed.
And if you filled your zones in the chain before resolving the control spell?
Re: Game Related Question
Posted: Sun May 15, 2022 12:25 am
by Genexwrecker
greg503 wrote:Genexwrecker wrote:If a monster is taken control of an effect such as mind control or brain control when the control of the monster is supposed to return to the original controller and they have no zones to place the monster in that monster is sent to the gy by game mechanics. It is not considered destroyed.
And if you filled your zones in the chain before resolving the control spell?
same
Re: Game Related Question
Posted: Sun May 15, 2022 1:49 am
by Cromat
Question #27: Opponent is activated "Numeron Network" during their Main Phase 1. I chained of "Blizzard" by targeting "Numeron Network". Can they still send from their Deck to the GY of "Numeron Calling"?
Re: Game Related Question
Posted: Sun May 15, 2022 2:00 am
by Lil Oldman
Sending from deck is a cost. They can still pitch Numeron Calling from their deck to the GY, however the effect will be negated.
Re: Game Related Question
Posted: Sun May 15, 2022 2:35 am
by Renji Asuka
Cromat wrote:Question #27: Opponent is activated "Numeron Network" during their Main Phase 1. I chained of "Blizzard" by targeting "Numeron Network". Can they still send from their Deck to the GY of "Numeron Calling"?
Before you even think about asking another question like this when it comes to cost.
Anything to the left of ; but to the right of : if any is a cost that must be paid before you are allowed to chain.
(regarding PSCT)
Re: Game Related Question
Posted: Sun May 15, 2022 4:07 am
by Fredblade
Cromat wrote:Question #27: Opponent is activated "Numeron Network" during their Main Phase 1. I chained of "Blizzard" by targeting "Numeron Network". Can they still send from their Deck to the GY of "Numeron Calling"?
They can still activate the effect of Numeron Network and pay the cost which is sending the a Numeron normal spell to the graveyard, however the effect will be negated.
Re: Game Related Question
Posted: Sun May 15, 2022 6:16 am
by Wek
Genexwrecker wrote:greg503 wrote:Genexwrecker wrote:If a monster is taken control of an effect such as mind control or brain control when the control of the monster is supposed to return to the original controller and they have no zones to place the monster in that monster is sent to the gy by game mechanics. It is not considered destroyed.
And if you filled your zones in the chain before resolving the control spell?
same
Assuming "resolving the control spell" meant resolving its activated effect to take control rather than taking the action of having the control change wear off, it's destroyed, not just sent to GY.
Re: Game Related Question
Posted: Sun May 15, 2022 6:19 am
by Genexwrecker
Renji Asuka wrote:Cromat wrote:Question #27: Opponent is activated "Numeron Network" during their Main Phase 1. I chained of "Blizzard" by targeting "Numeron Network". Can they still send from their Deck to the GY of "Numeron Calling"?
Before you even think about asking another question like this when it comes to cost.
Anything to the left of ; but to the right of : if any is a cost that must be paid before you are allowed to chain.
(regarding PSCT)
this is incorrect information please disregard Reji's post as not everything directly before the ; does not equate to costs. Targeting for example is not a cost but is performed upon activation which is the true meaning of the semi colon.
Re: Game Related Question
Posted: Sun May 15, 2022 10:36 am
by Renji Asuka
Genexwrecker wrote:Renji Asuka wrote:Cromat wrote:Question #27: Opponent is activated "Numeron Network" during their Main Phase 1. I chained of "Blizzard" by targeting "Numeron Network". Can they still send from their Deck to the GY of "Numeron Calling"?
Before you even think about asking another question like this when it comes to cost.
Anything to the left of ; but to the right of : if any is a cost that must be paid before you are allowed to chain.
(regarding PSCT)
this is incorrect information please disregard Reji's post as not everything directly before the ; does not equate to costs. Targeting for example is not a cost but is performed upon activation which is the true meaning of the semi colon.
I mean considering you must pay cost and in some cases such as target happens, it is still 2 things you need to do before your opponent responds, so it's easier to lump them together as these action still applies before your opponent can respond.
Re: Game Related Question
Posted: Sun May 15, 2022 4:09 pm
by Christen57
Genexwrecker wrote:Renji Asuka wrote:Cromat wrote:Question #27: Opponent is activated "Numeron Network" during their Main Phase 1. I chained of "Blizzard" by targeting "Numeron Network". Can they still send from their Deck to the GY of "Numeron Calling"?
Before you even think about asking another question like this when it comes to cost.
Anything to the left of ; but to the right of : if any is a cost that must be paid before you are allowed to chain.
(regarding PSCT)
this is incorrect information please disregard Reji's post as not everything directly before the ; does not equate to costs. Targeting for example is not a cost but is performed upon activation which is the true meaning of the semi colon.
Actually, Renji Asuka's probably right here. This article explains exactly what costs are.
https://yugipedia.com/wiki/CostA cost (Japanese: コスト Kosuto) is an action that must be performed in order to activate a card or effect, to perform another action, or to keep a card on the field.Targeting is an action that must be performed to activate, or at least when activating,
Mystical Space Typhoon for example. Therefore, targeting with Mystical Space Typhoon is considered a "cost" as far as game mechanics are concerned.
Re: Game Related Question
Posted: Sun May 15, 2022 5:06 pm
by Genexwrecker
Renji Asuka wrote:Genexwrecker wrote:Renji Asuka wrote:Before you even think about asking another question like this when it comes to cost.
Anything to the left of ; but to the right of : if any is a cost that must be paid before you are allowed to chain.
(regarding PSCT)
this is incorrect information please disregard Reji's post as not everything directly before the ; does not equate to costs. Targeting for example is not a cost but is performed upon activation which is the true meaning of the semi colon.
I mean considering you must pay cost and in some cases such as target happens, it is still 2 things you need to do before your opponent responds, so it's easier to lump them together as these action still applies before your opponent can respond.
this is something that is extremely important to not lump together targeting and costs are 2 entirtely seperate mechanics and the differences do come up more often than you think in the game itself. Targeting not being a cost affects a lot of cards and their ability to activate far more than costs do.
Re: Game Related Question
Posted: Sun May 15, 2022 5:07 pm
by Genexwrecker
Christen57 wrote:Genexwrecker wrote:Renji Asuka wrote:Before you even think about asking another question like this when it comes to cost.
Anything to the left of ; but to the right of : if any is a cost that must be paid before you are allowed to chain.
(regarding PSCT)
this is incorrect information please disregard Reji's post as not everything directly before the ; does not equate to costs. Targeting for example is not a cost but is performed upon activation which is the true meaning of the semi colon.
Actually, Renji Asuka's probably right here. This article explains exactly what costs are.
https://yugipedia.com/wiki/CostA cost (Japanese: コスト Kosuto) is an action that must be performed in order to activate a card or effect, to perform another action, or to keep a card on the field.Targeting is an action that must be performed to activate, or at least when activating,
Mystical Space Typhoon for example. Therefore, targeting with Mystical Space Typhoon is considered a "cost" as far as game mechanics are concerned.
again targeting is never a cost and never will be a cost. This is extremely important to understand as it does affect the validity of quite a few cards and different mechanics are affected by targeting not being a cost as well. Please do not continue to go around telling people targeting is treated as a cost it is vastly different. This is not a debate please drop the subject.
Re: Game Related Question
Posted: Sun May 15, 2022 5:38 pm
by Renji Asuka
As far as the game is concerned, if a card targets, you MUST perform that action FIRST, same with cost before you a player can have a legal response window.
That's the point I am driving at, these mechanics are very much intertwined with each other post PSCT when it comes to anything to the left of ; and to the right of :
Then to act as if I'm wrong when I'm showing where the cost would be just because I didn't use a choice of words you'd have used doesn't mean have I have stated is wrong.
You don't get to pay cost of a card, let the opponent respond before any targeting occurs or vice versa. These actions happen in the order the card states and must be done fully before the player in question is allowed to respond. Because of this, it's easier to say what I have stated that these things HAVE TO HAPPEN before the opponent is allowed to respond.
Most players who know PSCT rather well knows already that targeting isn't the same as cost as they are 2 different actions, but they happen in the same group of text if a card has both targeting and cost.