Game Related Question

Genexwrecker
User avatar
Posts: 1921
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2017 10:52 pm
Reputation: 330

Re: Game Related Question

Post #161 by Genexwrecker » Sun May 15, 2022 5:53 pm

Renji Asuka wrote:As far as the game is concerned, if a card targets, you MUST perform that action FIRST, same with cost before you a player can have a legal response window.

That's the point I am driving at, these mechanics are very much intertwined with each other post PSCT when it comes to anything to the left of ; and to the right of :

Then to act as if I'm wrong when I'm showing where the cost would be just because I didn't use a choice of words you'd have used doesn't mean have I have stated is wrong.

You don't get to pay cost of a card, let the opponent respond before any targeting occurs or vice versa. These actions happen in the order the card states and must be done fully before the player in question is allowed to respond. Because of this, it's easier to say what I have stated that these things HAVE TO HAPPEN before the opponent is allowed to respond.

Most players who know PSCT rather well knows already that targeting isn't the same as cost as they are 2 different actions, but they happen in the same group of text if a card has both targeting and cost.

Yes they both occur upon activation which I already stated. The similarities end there.
Official Duelingbook Support staff
Official Duelingbook Resource Judge
Official Duelingbook Tournament Admin.(Other tournament Admin is Runzy)

Wek
Posts: 205
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:34 pm
Reputation: 35

Post #162 by Wek » Sun May 15, 2022 5:58 pm

Christen57 wrote:
Genexwrecker wrote:
Renji Asuka wrote:Before you even think about asking another question like this when it comes to cost.

Anything to the left of ; but to the right of : if any is a cost that must be paid before you are allowed to chain.

(regarding PSCT)

this is incorrect information please disregard Reji's post as not everything directly before the ; does not equate to costs. Targeting for example is not a cost but is performed upon activation which is the true meaning of the semi colon.


Actually, Renji Asuka's probably right here. This article explains exactly what costs are. https://yugipedia.com/wiki/Cost

A cost (Japanese: コスト Kosuto) is an action that must be performed in order to activate a card or effect, to perform another action, or to keep a card on the field.

Targeting is an action that must be performed to activate, or at least when activating, Mystical Space Typhoon for example. Therefore, targeting with Mystical Space Typhoon is considered a "cost" as far as game mechanics are concerned.


:lol: Yugipedia. Using actual sources helps avoid misinformation. You keep using unreliable sites and it keeps leading you to provide bad information.

Wek
Posts: 205
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:34 pm
Reputation: 35

Post #163 by Wek » Sun May 15, 2022 6:22 pm

Renji Asuka wrote:
Cromat wrote:Question #27: Opponent is activated "Numeron Network" during their Main Phase 1. I chained of "Blizzard" by targeting "Numeron Network". Can they still send from their Deck to the GY of "Numeron Calling"?

Before you even think about asking another question like this when it comes to cost.

Anything to the left of ; but to the right of : if any is a cost that must be paid before you are allowed to chain.

(regarding PSCT)


No, anything to the left of ; but to the right of : is what you do when activating the effect. That does not mean it has to be a cost. https://yugiohblog.konami.com/articles/?p=2947 "The basic structure is CONDITIONS : ACTIVATION ; RESOLUTION." They're very insistent about the semicolon serving the role of separating activation from resolution, only mentioning that costs are one set of things that can be done when activating the effect, but it's not the complete set. "Anything that happens WHEN YOU ACTIVATE a card will be written in red and called ‘red text’. This includes things like costs and targeting." Targeting is a distinct example separate from costs, otherwise it'd just be redundant. To repeat their emphasis on this yet again. "The semicolon is there to separate what you do when you activate this card, vs. what you do when the card resolves."

Triple Tactical Talents does not have a cost. Traptrix certainly care about the fact that Traptrix Myrmelo has no cost, that way Traptrix Sera can summon it against empty opposing backrow and the effect still activates. After all, a mandatory effect can't activate unless you can pay the cost. On the other hand, a mandatory effect has no problems activating without a target, so Myrmelo's empty trigger will set off Sera's effect, a rather nifty turn 1 interaction they use to set up certain plays. If I copy the activated effect of Eradicator Epidemic Virus, with say, Labrynth Barrage, I won't pay any costs, but of course I'd still declare monster, spell, or trap.

https://img.yugioh-card.com/en/download ... _EN_10.pdf (https://img.yugioh-card.com/en/downloads/ rulebook/SD_RuleBook_EN_10.pdf Put these two texts together if the post cuts off the link again.) If you're looking for costs in the Rulebook glossary, you won't find it under C. You got to down a bit further into page 54, under P, where it defines "Pay A Cost". "To pay a cost in an action required by a player in order to activate a card, an effect, or to summon a monster. Tributing to Tribute Summon a Level 5 monster is an example of a cost. Other common costs are discarding, paying LP, or banishing cards."

You do not pay activations, declarations, or targeting. Telling your opponent which effect is activated, what name you might be declaring, or what target you are picking are all things you might see before a semicolon that you'd perform when activating the effect without defining it as a cost to pay.
Last edited by Wek on Sun May 15, 2022 6:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Renji Asuka
Posts: 2189
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2018 4:37 am
Reputation: 211

Post #164 by Renji Asuka » Sun May 15, 2022 6:28 pm

Wek wrote:
Renji Asuka wrote:
Cromat wrote:Question #27: Opponent is activated "Numeron Network" during their Main Phase 1. I chained of "Blizzard" by targeting "Numeron Network". Can they still send from their Deck to the GY of "Numeron Calling"?

Before you even think about asking another question like this when it comes to cost.

Anything to the left of ; but to the right of : if any is a cost that must be paid before you are allowed to chain.

(regarding PSCT)


No, anything to the left of ; but to the right of : is what you do when activating the effect. That does not mean it has to be a cost. https://yugiohblog.konami.com/articles/?p=2947 "The basic structure is CONDITIONS : ACTIVATION ; RESOLUTION." They're very insistent about the semicolon serving the role of separating activation from resolution, only mentioning that costs are one set of things that can be done when activating the effect, but it's not the complete set. "Anything that happens WHEN YOU ACTIVATE a card will be written in red and called ‘red text’. This includes things like costs and targeting." Targeting is a distinct example separate from costs, otherwise it'd just be redundant.

Triple Tactical Talents does not have a cost. Traptrix certainly care about the fact that Traptrix Myrmelo has no cost, that way Traptrix Sera can summon it against empty opposing backrow and the effect still activates. After all, a mandatory effect can't activate unless you can pay the cost. On the other hand, a mandatory effect has no problems activating without a target, so Myrmelo's empty trigger will set off Sera's effect, a rather nifty turn 1 interaction they use to set up certain plays. If I copy the activated effect of Eradicator Epidemic Virus, with say, Labrynth Barrage, I won't pay any costs, but of course I'd still declare monster, spell, or trap.

https://img.yugioh-card.com/en/download ... _EN_10.pdf If you're looking for costs in the Rulebook glossary, you won't find it under C. You got to down a bit further into page 54, under P, where it defines "Pay A Cost". "To pay a cost in an action required by a player in order to activate a card, an effect, or to summon a monster. Tributing to Tribute Summon a Level 5 monster is an example of a cost. Other common costs are discarding, paying LP, or banishing cards."

You do not pay activations, declarations, or targeting. Telling your opponent which effect is activated, what name you might be declaring, or what target you are picking are all things you might see before a semicolon that you'd perform when activating the effect without defining it as a cost to pay.

You might actually want to read more than just that post otherwise you'd see how foolish your post actually is.
Image
Showing people that I'm The King of Games since September 30, 1996.

Wek
Posts: 205
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:34 pm
Reputation: 35

Post #165 by Wek » Sun May 15, 2022 6:46 pm

Cromat wrote:Question #27: Opponent is activated "Numeron Network" during their Main Phase 1. I chained of "Blizzard" by targeting "Numeron Network". Can they still send from their Deck to the GY of "Numeron Calling"?


Sure. Blizzard only negates the activated effects of that spell, which is what the spell does when it resolves that effect. That won't stop you from doing things when you activate the effect. Text before the semicolon indicates what you do when you activate the effect and works fine under effect negation.

Wek
Posts: 205
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:34 pm
Reputation: 35

Post #166 by Wek » Sun May 15, 2022 7:01 pm

Renji Asuka wrote:You might actually want to read more than just that post otherwise you'd see how foolish your post actually is.


What? You mean the load of rubbish below?

Renji Asuka wrote:As far as the game is concerned, if a card targets, you MUST perform that action FIRST, same with cost before you a player can have a legal response window.

That's the point I am driving at, these mechanics are very much intertwined with each other post PSCT when it comes to anything to the left of ; and to the right of :

Then to act as if I'm wrong when I'm showing where the cost would be just because I didn't use a choice of words you'd have used doesn't mean have I have stated is wrong.

You don't get to pay cost of a card, let the opponent respond before any targeting occurs or vice versa. These actions happen in the order the card states and must be done fully before the player in question is allowed to respond. Because of this, it's easier to say what I have stated that these things HAVE TO HAPPEN before the opponent is allowed to respond.

Most players who know PSCT rather well knows already that targeting isn't the same as cost as they are 2 different actions, but they happen in the same group of text if a card has both targeting and cost.


You tried making an incorrect and unnecessary generalization that had no benefits. Documentation clearly states what a semicolon is following in very simple terms. Actions taken when activating the effect.

Renji Asuka
Posts: 2189
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2018 4:37 am
Reputation: 211

Post #167 by Renji Asuka » Sun May 15, 2022 7:07 pm

Wek wrote:
Renji Asuka wrote:You might actually want to read more than just that post otherwise you'd see how foolish your post actually is.


What? You mean the load of rubbish below?

Renji Asuka wrote:As far as the game is concerned, if a card targets, you MUST perform that action FIRST, same with cost before you a player can have a legal response window.

That's the point I am driving at, these mechanics are very much intertwined with each other post PSCT when it comes to anything to the left of ; and to the right of :

Then to act as if I'm wrong when I'm showing where the cost would be just because I didn't use a choice of words you'd have used doesn't mean have I have stated is wrong.

You don't get to pay cost of a card, let the opponent respond before any targeting occurs or vice versa. These actions happen in the order the card states and must be done fully before the player in question is allowed to respond. Because of this, it's easier to say what I have stated that these things HAVE TO HAPPEN before the opponent is allowed to respond.

Most players who know PSCT rather well knows already that targeting isn't the same as cost as they are 2 different actions, but they happen in the same group of text if a card has both targeting and cost.


You tried making an incorrect and unnecessary generalization that had no benefits. Documentation clearly states what a semicolon is following in very simple terms. Actions taken when activating the effect.

So, let me ask you the question.

Where is the cost located?
Image
Showing people that I'm The King of Games since September 30, 1996.

Wek
Posts: 205
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:34 pm
Reputation: 35

Post #168 by Wek » Sun May 15, 2022 7:25 pm

Renji Asuka wrote:
Wek wrote:
Renji Asuka wrote:You might actually want to read more than just that post otherwise you'd see how foolish your post actually is.


What? You mean the load of rubbish below?

Renji Asuka wrote:As far as the game is concerned, if a card targets, you MUST perform that action FIRST, same with cost before you a player can have a legal response window.

That's the point I am driving at, these mechanics are very much intertwined with each other post PSCT when it comes to anything to the left of ; and to the right of :

Then to act as if I'm wrong when I'm showing where the cost would be just because I didn't use a choice of words you'd have used doesn't mean have I have stated is wrong.

You don't get to pay cost of a card, let the opponent respond before any targeting occurs or vice versa. These actions happen in the order the card states and must be done fully before the player in question is allowed to respond. Because of this, it's easier to say what I have stated that these things HAVE TO HAPPEN before the opponent is allowed to respond.

Most players who know PSCT rather well knows already that targeting isn't the same as cost as they are 2 different actions, but they happen in the same group of text if a card has both targeting and cost.


You tried making an incorrect and unnecessary generalization that had no benefits. Documentation clearly states what a semicolon is following in very simple terms. Actions taken when activating the effect.

So, let me ask you the question.

Where is the cost located?


A cost to an activated effect will be located before the semicolon, as the cost is one kind of action performed when activating the effect.

Renji Asuka
Posts: 2189
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2018 4:37 am
Reputation: 211

Post #169 by Renji Asuka » Sun May 15, 2022 11:02 pm

Wek wrote:
Renji Asuka wrote:
Wek wrote:
What? You mean the load of rubbish below?



You tried making an incorrect and unnecessary generalization that had no benefits. Documentation clearly states what a semicolon is following in very simple terms. Actions taken when activating the effect.

So, let me ask you the question.

Where is the cost located?


A cost to an activated effect will be located before the semicolon, as the cost is one kind of action performed when activating the effect.

You mean, just like what I said.

So why are you arguing?
Image
Showing people that I'm The King of Games since September 30, 1996.

greg503
User avatar
Posts: 1851
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2017 3:43 pm
Reputation: 160
Location: Flundereeze

Post #170 by greg503 » Mon May 16, 2022 12:18 am

Christen57 wrote:
Genexwrecker wrote:
Renji Asuka wrote:Before you even think about asking another question like this when it comes to cost.

Anything to the left of ; but to the right of : if any is a cost that must be paid before you are allowed to chain.

(regarding PSCT)

this is incorrect information please disregard Reji's post as not everything directly before the ; does not equate to costs. Targeting for example is not a cost but is performed upon activation which is the true meaning of the semi colon.


Actually, Renji Asuka's probably right here. This article explains exactly what costs are. https://yugipedia.com/wiki/Cost

A cost (Japanese: コスト Kosuto) is an action that must be performed in order to activate a card or effect, to perform another action, or to keep a card on the field.

Targeting is an action that must be performed to activate, or at least when activating, Mystical Space Typhoon for example. Therefore, targeting with Mystical Space Typhoon is considered a "cost" as far as game mechanics are concerned.

"the cost is paid and any targeting is done" the wiki separates cost and target though
Buy Floowandereeze

greg503
User avatar
Posts: 1851
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2017 3:43 pm
Reputation: 160
Location: Flundereeze

Post #171 by greg503 » Mon May 16, 2022 12:28 am

Renji Asuka wrote:
Wek wrote:
Renji Asuka wrote:So, let me ask you the question.

Where is the cost located?


A cost to an activated effect will be located before the semicolon, as the cost is one kind of action performed when activating the effect.

You mean, just like what I said.

So why are you arguing?

Because you tried to defend using the wrong term, like when I said Infinity negates an "effect" when it really negates the "activation"
Buy Floowandereeze

Christen57
User avatar
Posts: 1523
Joined: Sun May 07, 2017 10:37 pm
Reputation: 153

Post #172 by Christen57 » Mon May 16, 2022 1:36 am

Genexwrecker wrote:
Christen57 wrote:
Genexwrecker wrote:this is incorrect information please disregard Reji's post as not everything directly before the ; does not equate to costs. Targeting for example is not a cost but is performed upon activation which is the true meaning of the semi colon.


Actually, Renji Asuka's probably right here. This article explains exactly what costs are. https://yugipedia.com/wiki/Cost

A cost (Japanese: コスト Kosuto) is an action that must be performed in order to activate a card or effect, to perform another action, or to keep a card on the field.

Targeting is an action that must be performed to activate, or at least when activating, Mystical Space Typhoon for example. Therefore, targeting with Mystical Space Typhoon is considered a "cost" as far as game mechanics are concerned.

again targeting is never a cost and never will be a cost. This is extremely important to understand as it does affect the validity of quite a few cards and different mechanics are affected by targeting not being a cost as well. Please do not continue to go around telling people targeting is treated as a cost it is vastly different. This is not a debate please drop the subject.


I think I know what you mean. Unlike costs listed before semi-colons which can never be skipped, there are some situations where targeting can be skipped, like in the case of mandatory effects. For example, Galaxy Knight says it'll activate it's on-summon effect by targeting then special summoning a specific monster in the graveyard, but will still activate and resolve that effect to lose 1000 ATK even if no such target exists, in which case it'll skip the targeting part and go straight to the ATK-reducing part.

This should mean that, if I tribute summon Granmarg the Mega Monarch using EARTH tributes, even if no Set cards exist on the field, it should still apply the "Also, draw 1 card after that" part, since, according to problem-solving card text rules, "Do A, also do B" means A isn't required for B to happen. Right?

However, an actual cost, such as paying life points to activate something, wouldn't be skippable. If my face-up Moon Mirror Shield gets sent to my graveyard and I have less than 500 life points, I don't get to skip paying 500 life points while still putting the card back to the top/bottom of the deck.

Also, not all forms of targeting target at specifically an activation of something. There is a spell card called Future Fusion which targets after it has resolved instead of upon activation, while Equip Spells, for example, "constantly" target the monsters they're equipped to.

So I guess what I should say is that targeting is considered part of the cost, or at least something that's required alongside the cost, if said targeting is required to activate the card/effect in question and if that card/effect is optional and not mandatory.

Wek
Posts: 205
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:34 pm
Reputation: 35

Post #173 by Wek » Mon May 16, 2022 1:46 am

Renji Asuka wrote:
Cromat wrote:Question #27: Opponent is activated "Numeron Network" during their Main Phase 1. I chained of "Blizzard" by targeting "Numeron Network". Can they still send from their Deck to the GY of "Numeron Calling"?

Before you even think about asking another question like this when it comes to cost.

Anything to the left of ; but to the right of : if any is a cost that must be paid before you are allowed to chain.

(regarding PSCT)


Renji Asuka wrote:
Wek wrote:
Renji Asuka wrote:So, let me ask you the question.

Where is the cost located?


A cost to an activated effect will be located before the semicolon, as the cost is one kind of action performed when activating the effect.

You mean, just like what I said.

So why are you arguing?


:lol: You think those are the same thing? :lol: To shorten the statements a bit since we know full well what they represent in the context of this discussion.

"Costs are before the semicolon" =/= "Anything before the semicolon is a cost"

This is basic logic. (All things in group x are in group y does not mean all things in group y are in group x, as there can be things that are in group y that are not in group x.) Or to take a well known analogy.

You trying to take those statements as equivalent is like taking the statement "all squares are rectangles" and then claiming that statement proves "all rectangles are squares". It doesn't work. There could still be rectangles that aren't squares. (There are.) "Costs comes before the semicolon" will not make "Anything before the semicolon a cost". You could still be things before the semicolon that aren't a cost. (There are.)

Targeting is not a cost, but is before the semicolon, proving "Anything before the semicolon is a cost" (your statement) false, yet has no contradiction with "Costs are before the semicolon" (my statement).

Wek
Posts: 205
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:34 pm
Reputation: 35

Post #174 by Wek » Mon May 16, 2022 2:16 am

Christen57 wrote:
Genexwrecker wrote:
Christen57 wrote:
Actually, Renji Asuka's probably right here. This article explains exactly what costs are. https://yugipedia.com/wiki/Cost

A cost (Japanese: コスト Kosuto) is an action that must be performed in order to activate a card or effect, to perform another action, or to keep a card on the field.

Targeting is an action that must be performed to activate, or at least when activating, Mystical Space Typhoon for example. Therefore, targeting with Mystical Space Typhoon is considered a "cost" as far as game mechanics are concerned.

again targeting is never a cost and never will be a cost. This is extremely important to understand as it does affect the validity of quite a few cards and different mechanics are affected by targeting not being a cost as well. Please do not continue to go around telling people targeting is treated as a cost it is vastly different. This is not a debate please drop the subject.


I think I know what you mean. Unlike costs listed before semi-colons which can never be skipped, there are some situations where targeting can be skipped, like in the case of mandatory effects. For example, Galaxy Knight says it'll activate it's on-summon effect by targeting then special summoning a specific monster in the graveyard, but will still activate and resolve that effect to lose 1000 ATK even if no such target exists, in which case it'll skip the targeting part and go straight to the ATK-reducing part.

This should mean that, if I tribute summon Granmarg the Mega Monarch using EARTH tributes, even if no Set cards exist on the field, it should still apply the "Also, draw 1 card after that" part, since, according to problem-solving card text rules, "Do A, also do B" means A isn't required for B to happen. Right?

However, an actual cost, such as paying life points to activate something, wouldn't be skippable. If my face-up Moon Mirror Shield gets sent to my graveyard and I have less than 500 life points, I don't get to skip paying 500 life points while still putting the card back to the top/bottom of the deck.

Also, not all forms of targeting target at specifically an activation of something. There is a spell card called Future Fusion which targets after it has resolved instead of upon activation, while Equip Spells, for example, "constantly" target the monsters they're equipped to.

So I guess what I should say is that targeting is considered part of the cost, or at least something that's required alongside the cost, if said targeting is required to activate the card/effect in question and if that card/effect is optional and not mandatory.


If you don't have the lifepoints for Moon Mirror Shield, you can't activate its mandatory effect, period. If you can't pay the cost to activate an effect, you can't activate it, whether it's mandatory or not. Targeting isn't a cost. A mandatory effect can activate without targets, like Galaxy Knight, Granmarg the Mega Monarch, etc. The resolution stuff is just unrelated basic PSCT, apply your conjunctions accordingly.

But no, targeting is not part of the cost, it's a completely different action, even if you separate the activation legality principles of mandatory effects from the discussion. As I said earlier, just take a look at certain forms of effect copying. It's just as true for targeting as it is for declaring, where if you take the group of effect copiers that don't copy costs, they'll still have you target/declare. To give yet another example, Diamond Dude doesn't copy costs, but it will still have you select targets.

As for the alternate form of targeting that you're on about, that's another entirely unrelated topic. Equips initially target when activated, but the so-called "continuous targeting" they do afterwards is a special form of "targeting" completely different than the original. There's just this small minority of cards that care about this strange form of targeting, such as Spirit Reaper, for no known reason. Most cards straight up don't care. Targeting protection isn't going to cause equips to stop being equipped. https://db.ygorganization.com/qa#8784 Targeting protection won't even stop effects that equip another cards from equipping https://db.ygorganization.com/qa#14404 https://db.ygorganization.com/qa#23196 The targeting protection would only stop the initial targeting at activation. I would not advise getting into all the added complications of other concepts of targeting when you're still trying to wrap your head around how basic targeting functions with respect to actions at activation and not being a cost.

Renji Asuka
Posts: 2189
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2018 4:37 am
Reputation: 211

Post #175 by Renji Asuka » Mon May 16, 2022 2:31 am

Wek wrote:
Renji Asuka wrote:
Cromat wrote:Question #27: Opponent is activated "Numeron Network" during their Main Phase 1. I chained of "Blizzard" by targeting "Numeron Network". Can they still send from their Deck to the GY of "Numeron Calling"?

Before you even think about asking another question like this when it comes to cost.

Anything to the left of ; but to the right of : if any is a cost that must be paid before you are allowed to chain.

(regarding PSCT)


Renji Asuka wrote:
Wek wrote:
A cost to an activated effect will be located before the semicolon, as the cost is one kind of action performed when activating the effect.

You mean, just like what I said.

So why are you arguing?


:lol: You think those are the same thing? :lol: To shorten the statements a bit since we know full well what they represent in the context of this discussion.

"Costs are before the semicolon" =/= "Anything before the semicolon is a cost"

This is basic logic. (All things in group x are in group y does not mean all things in group y are in group x, as there can be things that are in group y that are not in group x.) Or to take a well known analogy.

You trying to take those statements as equivalent is like taking the statement "all squares are rectangles" and then claiming that statement proves "all rectangles are squares". It doesn't work. There could still be rectangles that aren't squares. (There are.) "Costs comes before the semicolon" will not make "Anything before the semicolon a cost". You could still be things before the semicolon that aren't a cost. (There are.)

Targeting is not a cost, but is before the semicolon, proving "Anything before the semicolon is a cost" (your statement) false, yet has no contradiction with "Costs are before the semicolon" (my statement).

No where have I stated they were the same thing lmao
Image
Showing people that I'm The King of Games since September 30, 1996.

greg503
User avatar
Posts: 1851
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2017 3:43 pm
Reputation: 160
Location: Flundereeze

Post #176 by greg503 » Mon May 16, 2022 2:37 am

Renji Asuka wrote:
Wek wrote:
Renji Asuka wrote:Before you even think about asking another question like this when it comes to cost.

Anything to the left of ; but to the right of : if any is a cost that must be paid before you are allowed to chain.

(regarding PSCT)


Renji Asuka wrote:You mean, just like what I said.

So why are you arguing?


:lol: You think those are the same thing? :lol: To shorten the statements a bit since we know full well what they represent in the context of this discussion.

"Costs are before the semicolon" =/= "Anything before the semicolon is a cost"

This is basic logic. (All things in group x are in group y does not mean all things in group y are in group x, as there can be things that are in group y that are not in group x.) Or to take a well known analogy.

You trying to take those statements as equivalent is like taking the statement "all squares are rectangles" and then claiming that statement proves "all rectangles are squares". It doesn't work. There could still be rectangles that aren't squares. (There are.) "Costs comes before the semicolon" will not make "Anything before the semicolon a cost". You could still be things before the semicolon that aren't a cost. (There are.)

Targeting is not a cost, but is before the semicolon, proving "Anything before the semicolon is a cost" (your statement) false, yet has no contradiction with "Costs are before the semicolon" (my statement).

No where have I stated they were the same thing lmao

"just like what I said"
Buy Floowandereeze

Cromat
User avatar
Posts: 102
Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:16 am
Reputation: 5

Post #177 by Cromat » Mon May 23, 2022 7:58 pm

Question #28: Opponent Normal Summons of "Amano-Iwato", during End Phase of their turn: Its Trigger Effect is triggered; I responded that by activating "Madolche Nights". So at the end as result.. ..Opponent's monster will stay on the field and I can enter my Draw Phase, or, we're still at End Phase, so its effect can be triggers again so that monster can still be return to opponent's hand? (Don't forget to review Question #22.)

Wek
Posts: 205
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:34 pm
Reputation: 35

Post #178 by Wek » Mon May 23, 2022 8:18 pm

Wek wrote:
greg503 wrote:
Wek wrote:
It should be sent to the GY, though if it's from the control change wearing off it's not considered destruction.

Sent by game mechanics, same for if a Galaxy-Eyes attempts to return to the field with no open Main Monster Zones


Yeah, I wouldn't expect it to be considered sent by card effect. Should be similar to the scenarios for when a control change effect resolves and tries to take a monster without available zones, with the exception instead of destruction it's just sent to GY, but still not by card effect. I find it a bit strange that control change wearing off without available zones isn't destruction while control change is, but the one ruling I see on control change wearing off indicated this one detail differed. https://db.ygorganization.com/qa#20771


https://ygorganization.com/perfect-rulebook-2017/ Based on page 153, I'm revising my take on this to Konami forgetting to say it destroyed this one time on https://db.ygorganization.com/qa#20771, and inconveniently on the only ruling about returning control when the effect wore off.

Wek
Posts: 205
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:34 pm
Reputation: 35

Post #179 by Wek » Mon May 23, 2022 8:38 pm

Cromat wrote:Question #28: Opponent Normal Summons of "Amano-Iwato", during End Phase of their turn: Its Trigger Effect is triggered; I responded that by activating "Madolche Nights". So at the end as result.. ..Opponent's monster will stay on the field and I can enter my Draw Phase, or, we're still at End Phase, so its effect can be triggers again so that monster can still be return to opponent's hand? (Don't forget to review Question #22.)


Why would we want to review Question 22?

You're still in the End Phase, and that copy of Amano cannot activate its effect again.

Lil Oldman
User avatar
Posts: 1419
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2018 11:23 pm
Reputation: 159
Location: Toontown
Mood:

Post #180 by Lil Oldman » Mon May 23, 2022 8:59 pm

Would this be something similar to Dingirsu and Instant Fusion? Instant will pop the fusion during end phase, but Dingirsu can protect it for that turn.
"Complacency? How rude. I live the stifling life of a high school student in our problematic modern society."
Help I cannot remove this music from my head
https://youtu.be/ZuXI7qcNsHQ
Will try reviewing custom cards if they look interesting.


Return to “Ask Me Anything”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 13 guests