Game Related Question

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Re: Game Related Question

Post #101 by Wek » Wed Apr 06, 2022 11:58 pm

Cromat wrote:Question #19:
Your opponent Normal Summons of "Sky Striker Ace - Raye" while you control "Skill Drain" as face-up. Attacks you directly with "Sky Striker Ace - Raye" to you. You are activating "Dimensional Prison" for that. Your opponent activates Quick Effect of "Sky Striker Ace - Raye" for survive from your just activated Trap and tributes it. But not Summons monster to the Extra Monster Zone by saying "Skill Drain" is applying therefore cannot Summon.

In the scenario above, is the opponent telling the truth or have they tried to cheat (assuming you have "Mystic Mine" in your hand)?


Assume they are telling the truth and inform them the effect is not negated as Raye is no longer on the field, as Skill Drain's text says the monster has to remain face-up. No reason to think a player is lying over something they could easily just be mistaken about.

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Post #102 by Fredblade » Thu Apr 07, 2022 1:27 am

Cromat wrote:Question #19:
Your opponent Normal Summons of "Sky Striker Ace - Raye" while you control "Skill Drain" as face-up. Attacks you directly with "Sky Striker Ace - Raye" to you. You are activating "Dimensional Prison" for that. Your opponent activates Quick Effect of "Sky Striker Ace - Raye" for survive from your just activated Trap and tributes it. But not Summons monster to the Extra Monster Zone by saying "Skill Drain" is applying therefore cannot Summon.

In the scenario above, is the opponent telling the truth or have they tried to cheat (assuming you have "Mystic Mine" in your hand)?


Skill Drain only negates the effects of a monster while they're face-up on the field, since "Sky Striker Ace Raye" leaves the field by the cost to activate its effect, it won't be negated by "Skill Drain".
I think it was just a mistake of the player not understanding how Skill Drain really works.

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Post #103 by Cromat » Thu Apr 07, 2022 9:21 pm

Question #20:
After you take 5600 damage to your LP by attack of "Despian Quaeritis" and "Dramaturge of Despia"; you're activating your face-down "Evenly Matched". With it; your opponent is banishing of "Despian Quaeritis" from their field as face-down.

Can your opponent add to their hand, or Special Summon, 1 "Fallen of Albaz" or 1 "Despia" monster, from their Deck by effect of "Despian Quaeritis"?
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Post #104 by Christen57 » Thu Apr 07, 2022 10:12 pm

Cromat wrote:Question #20:
After you take 5600 damage to your LP by attack of "Despian Quaeritis" and "Dramaturge of Despia"; you're activating your face-down "Evenly Matched". With it; your opponent is banishing of "Despian Quaeritis" from their field as face-down.

Can your opponent add to their hand, or Special Summon, 1 "Fallen of Albaz" or 1 "Despia" monster, from their Deck by effect of "Despian Quaeritis"?


Monsters with "if this face-up card in its owner's control leaves the field" effects can't trigger those effects upon being banished face-down. Despian Quaeritis won't be able to activate the effect you're referring to in your scenario.

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Post #105 by Renji Asuka » Fri Apr 08, 2022 12:20 am

Christen57 wrote:
Cromat wrote:Question #20:
After you take 5600 damage to your LP by attack of "Despian Quaeritis" and "Dramaturge of Despia"; you're activating your face-down "Evenly Matched". With it; your opponent is banishing of "Despian Quaeritis" from their field as face-down.

Can your opponent add to their hand, or Special Summon, 1 "Fallen of Albaz" or 1 "Despia" monster, from their Deck by effect of "Despian Quaeritis"?


Monsters with "if this face-up card in its owner's control leaves the field" effects can't trigger those effects upon being banished face-down. Despian Quaeritis won't be able to activate the effect you're referring to in your scenario.

To go a bit beyond this, face down monsters cannot activate their effects. (Very few monsters can through their own card text).
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Post #106 by Fredblade » Fri Apr 08, 2022 7:51 am

Cromat wrote:Question #20:
After you take 5600 damage to your LP by attack of "Despian Quaeritis" and "Dramaturge of Despia"; you're activating your face-down "Evenly Matched". With it; your opponent is banishing of "Despian Quaeritis" from their field as face-down.

Can your opponent add to their hand, or Special Summon, 1 "Fallen of Albaz" or 1 "Despia" monster, from their Deck by effect of "Despian Quaeritis"?


Cards that are banished face-down cannot activate their effects unless they specifically state that. Also, evenly matched does not banish the monsters, it's the opponent that does it, that's why it can bypass "unaffected" clauses. Evenly Matched's actual effect is forcing the opponent to banish their cards, so it's not an effect that is making them leave the field. It's one of those cases where a card affects a player, not the cards.

As an additional ruling, cards like Herald of the Abyss and Share the Pain won't trigger Quaeritis' effect as well, since it's not leaving the field because of an opponent's card effect. There's a precedent for that with the Share the Pain vs Evilswarm Coppelia, here's the link: https://www.db.yugioh-card.com/yugiohdb/faq_search.action?ope=5&fid=12517&request_locale=ja

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Post #107 by 80808080 » Fri Apr 08, 2022 9:23 pm

Fredblade wrote:It's one of those cases where a card affects a player


I have yet to ever see someone say what that phrase is even supposed to mean, or how you're supposed to see it in card text. When people use it they seem to be saying conflicting things or things that don't make any sense.

So far all I see here is that the specific phrases "make your opponent" or "your opponent must" isn't something that affects monsters or move them by card effect when used on texts that have the potential to move monsters on the field off the field.

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Post #108 by Fredblade » Sat Apr 09, 2022 12:57 am

80808080 wrote:I have yet to ever see someone say what that phrase is even supposed to mean, or how you're supposed to see it in card text. When people use it they seem to be saying conflicting things or things that don't make any sense.


It is literally what it says. Also, what's the conflicting stuff they say? Caring about cards that affect a player is a mechanic that the game has used in so few obscure scenarios, like Mystical Refpanel.

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Post #109 by 80808080 » Sat Apr 09, 2022 1:30 am

Fredblade wrote:
80808080 wrote:I have yet to ever see someone say what that phrase is even supposed to mean, or how you're supposed to see it in card text. When people use it they seem to be saying conflicting things or things that don't make any sense.


It is literally what it says. Also, what's the conflicting stuff they say? Caring about cards that affect a player is a mechanic that the game has used in so few obscure scenarios, like Mystical Refpanel.


Mystical Refpanel has nothing to do with this scenario though. "Target a player" is just a meme.

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Post #110 by greg503 » Sat Apr 09, 2022 1:44 am

80808080 wrote:
Fredblade wrote:
80808080 wrote:I have yet to ever see someone say what that phrase is even supposed to mean, or how you're supposed to see it in card text. When people use it they seem to be saying conflicting things or things that don't make any sense.


It is literally what it says. Also, what's the conflicting stuff they say? Caring about cards that affect a player is a mechanic that the game has used in so few obscure scenarios, like Mystical Refpanel.


Mystical Refpanel has nothing to do with this scenario though. "Target a player" is just a meme.

Mystical Refpanel has an entire thing in the OCG database where they tell you if it can work on any given spell
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Post #111 by 80808080 » Sat Apr 09, 2022 1:55 am

greg503 wrote:
80808080 wrote:
Fredblade wrote:
It is literally what it says. Also, what's the conflicting stuff they say? Caring about cards that affect a player is a mechanic that the game has used in so few obscure scenarios, like Mystical Refpanel.


Mystical Refpanel has nothing to do with this scenario though. "Target a player" is just a meme.

Mystical Refpanel has an entire thing in the OCG database where they tell you if it can work on any given spell


Well, it has a small database list at least, but yeah, it's completely unrelated to the whole "affects a player" thing, though I guess they're both probably memes anyways, "targets a player" is just troll code for "what does Refpanel do?" Ygorganization has that extended list of stuff they'd expect Refpanel to work with or not to boot, but none of it relates to unaffected stuff.

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Post #112 by greg503 » Sat Apr 09, 2022 2:02 am

80808080 wrote:
greg503 wrote:
80808080 wrote:
Mystical Refpanel has nothing to do with this scenario though. "Target a player" is just a meme.

Mystical Refpanel has an entire thing in the OCG database where they tell you if it can work on any given spell


Well, it has a small database list at least, but yeah, it's completely unrelated to the whole "affects a player" thing, though I guess they're both probably memes anyways, "targets a player" is just troll code for "what does Refpanel do?" Ygorganization has that extended list of stuff they'd expect Refpanel to work with or not to boot, but none of it relates to unaffected stuff.

You see, technically Evenly Matched is an effect you make your opponent perform, so it's "their effect" and can affect cards that wouldn't be affect by your (the Evenly user's) effects, iirc.
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Post #113 by Cromat » Thu May 05, 2022 7:56 pm

Question #21:

Opponent has "Destiny HERO - Destroyer Phoenix Enforcer" in Defense Position its reason is that was Summoned during opponent's Standby Phase by its own effect, also has "Wandering Gryphon Rider" that one was not Summon same turn as Special Summon, has "Knightmare Unicorn" in Attack Position, and has a "Adventurer Token" in Defense Position that is not Summoned this turn. Opponent is switching their all monster to Attack Position and entering Battle Phase and attacking to me directly. I am saying "Destiny HERO - Destroyer Phoenix Enforcer" must be in Defense Position because it is Summoned by Special this turn. Opponent is did rewind that game as switching back of phase to the Main Phase 1, and the "Destiny HERO - Destroyer Phoenix Enforcer" to Defense Position by saying that is how gamestate is repaired now. I said you cannot take your move back, that Fusion will stay in Defense Position and your other monster's attacks are continuing (by the way when entered of Battle Phase: First attacked monster was not that the Fusion one). Also after that, opponent called me as you're sharking here. After they talked me with that way, I called of Judge(s) by pausing the game because, they re-switched of the phase to Main Phase 1 and Summoned else Fusion Monster. I am thinking they're trying to shark here. How should this situation be resolved, what is your decision as a Judge(s)?

Were you allow to my opponent that rewind the phase of Main Phase 1 back and ignoring opponent's other monsters's attacks?
Were you allow to game's continue from Battle Phase and only rewind the position of "Destiny HERO - Destroyer Phoenix Enforcer"?


(Of course I lost of the Duel by timed out as usual.)
(Here is the replay link: https://www.duelingbook.com/replay?id=168328-38639716)
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Post #114 by greg503 » Thu May 05, 2022 9:09 pm

Cromat wrote:Question #21:

Opponent has "Destiny HERO - Destroyer Phoenix Enforcer" in Defense Position its reason is that was Summoned during opponent's Standby Phase by its own effect, also has "Wandering Gryphon Rider" that one was not Summon same turn as Special Summon, has "Knightmare Unicorn" in Attack Position, and has a "Adventurer Token" in Defense Position that is not Summoned this turn. Opponent is switching their all monster to Attack Position and entering Battle Phase and attacking to me directly. I am saying "Destiny HERO - Destroyer Phoenix Enforcer" must be in Defense Position because it is Summoned by Special this turn. Opponent is did rewind that game as switching back of phase to the Main Phase 1, and the "Destiny HERO - Destroyer Phoenix Enforcer" to Defense Position by saying that is how gamestate is repaired now. I said you cannot take your move back, that Fusion will stay in Defense Position and your other monster's attacks are continuing (by the way when entered of Battle Phase: First attacked monster was not that the Fusion one). Also after that, opponent called me as you're sharking here. After they talked me with that way, I called of Judge(s) by pausing the game because, they re-switched of the phase to Main Phase 1 and Summoned else Fusion Monster. I am thinking they're trying to shark here. How should this situation be resolved, what is your decision as a Judge(s)?

Were you allow to my opponent that rewind the phase of Main Phase 1 back and ignoring opponent's other monsters's attacks?
Were you allow to game's continue from Battle Phase and only rewind the position of "Destiny HERO - Destroyer Phoenix Enforcer"?


(Of course I lost of the Duel by timed out as usual.)
(Here is the replay link: https://www.duelingbook.com/replay?id=168328-38639716)

What matters in this ruling is first, if the opponent changed the battle position of their other monsters to attempt to otk, and second, how much you think they meant to put DPE in Attack to begin with
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Post #115 by Cromat » Thu May 05, 2022 10:18 pm

greg503 wrote:What matters in this ruling is first, if the opponent changed the battle position of their other monsters to attempt to otk, and second, how much you think they meant to put DPE in Attack to begin with


I would take only 6200 damage by attack of "Knightmare Unicorn", "Wandering Gryphon Rider" and the "Adventurer Token". They wanted to finish the Duel in 1 turn by switching their all monsters to Attack Position. With "Destiny HERO - Destroyer Phoenix Enforcer" the damage I will take would be as 8700. Opponent is Special Summoned of "Destiny HERO - Destroyer Phoenix Enforcer" in Defense Position from their GY by the way.
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Post #116 by greg503 » Thu May 05, 2022 10:36 pm

Cromat wrote:
greg503 wrote:What matters in this ruling is first, if the opponent changed the battle position of their other monsters to attempt to otk, and second, how much you think they meant to put DPE in Attack to begin with


I would take only 6200 damage by attack of "Knightmare Unicorn", "Wandering Gryphon Rider" and the "Adventurer Token". They wanted to finish the Duel in 1 turn by switching their all monsters to Attack Position. With "Destiny HERO - Destroyer Phoenix Enforcer" the damage I will take would be as 8700. Opponent is Special Summoned of "Destiny HERO - Destroyer Phoenix Enforcer" in Defense Position from their GY by the way.

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Post #117 by Cromat » Thu May 05, 2022 11:22 pm

I was typing of "Question #21" while waiting Judge(s) arrives to Duel room, therefore I had to do of a paragraph, but; when I switch to the tab of DuelingBook, I saw that I have been timed out, so I decided to put Duel's replay link too; to the bottom of the text.
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Post #118 by Fredblade » Fri May 06, 2022 9:08 am

Cromat wrote:Question #21:

Opponent has "Destiny HERO - Destroyer Phoenix Enforcer" in Defense Position its reason is that was Summoned during opponent's Standby Phase by its own effect, also has "Wandering Gryphon Rider" that one was not Summon same turn as Special Summon, has "Knightmare Unicorn" in Attack Position, and has a "Adventurer Token" in Defense Position that is not Summoned this turn. Opponent is switching their all monster to Attack Position and entering Battle Phase and attacking to me directly. I am saying "Destiny HERO - Destroyer Phoenix Enforcer" must be in Defense Position because it is Summoned by Special this turn. Opponent is did rewind that game as switching back of phase to the Main Phase 1, and the "Destiny HERO - Destroyer Phoenix Enforcer" to Defense Position by saying that is how gamestate is repaired now. I said you cannot take your move back, that Fusion will stay in Defense Position and your other monster's attacks are continuing (by the way when entered of Battle Phase: First attacked monster was not that the Fusion one). Also after that, opponent called me as you're sharking here. After they talked me with that way, I called of Judge(s) by pausing the game because, they re-switched of the phase to Main Phase 1 and Summoned else Fusion Monster. I am thinking they're trying to shark here. How should this situation be resolved, what is your decision as a Judge(s)?

Were you allow to my opponent that rewind the phase of Main Phase 1 back and ignoring opponent's other monsters's attacks?
Were you allow to game's continue from Battle Phase and only rewind the position of "Destiny HERO - Destroyer Phoenix Enforcer"?


(Of course I lost of the Duel by timed out as usual.)
(Here is the replay link: https://www.duelingbook.com/replay?id=168328-38639716)


If they summoned a monster in a certain position or zone they can't take it back and change the position or move it to another zone if it wasn't like immediately after summoning it, but if they commited initially to summon the monster in that respective position or zone and latter on they realized they messed up and want to change it, then it's their fault and they must commit to it.

And as a Judge I would just change the DPE back to defense and resume the battle phase from there.

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Post #119 by Cromat » Fri May 06, 2022 12:34 pm

Fredblade wrote:If they summoned a monster in a certain position or zone they can't take it back and change the position or move it to another zone if it wasn't like immediately after summoning it, but if they commited initially to summon the monster in that respective position or zone and latter on they realized they messed up and want to change it, then it's their fault and they must commit to it.

And as a Judge I would just change the DPE back to defense and resume the battle phase from there.


The opponent tried to turn the situation in their favor, you can see it in replay too; that I paused the game and called Judge after they summoned "ABC-Dragon Buster". Thus, they are giving a chance to defeat me in 1 turn with themselves. They accuse me of sharking for their misplays. They do this on purpose, to say when the Judge(s) comes: "I told him I misplayed/misclicked, but he didn't admit it." Thus, when Judge arrives of Duel room, they'll have an advantage they're thinking as. Maybe they're hoping to Judge's says like that: "Yes, Cromat; your opponent has said that but you do not make cooperation with your opponent?". Actually, they Summoned of "Destiny HERO - Destroyer Phoenix Enforcer" in Defense Position, after that, they forget it because they Summoned more more monster. During that moment, when they realized their misplay, they attempted to switch to issue in their favor by rewinding to phase to Main Phase 1 and Summoning of "ABC-Dragon Buster". With these; they know that they can finish to Duel by defeating me in 1 turn.

Honestly, I would expect one of the Judge(s) here to answer this question, but thank you for your comments; also.
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Post #120 by greg503 » Fri May 06, 2022 1:32 pm

Actually, seeing that he has all the ABC pieces, I would let him go back to M1 and summon it to have lethal, though others might force them to miss lethal
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