Sound4 wrote:Genexwrecker wrote:Let me break this down for you then.
The following is the declaration of cyber dragon nachster's effect to summon itself. your opponent okaying that effect and then you resolving it.
[3:27] Sound4: "Nachster eff"
[3:32] JesusHH123: "ok"
[3:34] Sound4: Sent "Cyber Dragon Core" from hand (1/3) to GY
[3:39] Sound4: Special Summoned "Cyber Dragon Nachster" from hand (2/2) to M-3 (DEF)
The following is the declaration of the effect of cyber dragon nachster to activate when summoned to target a machine monster with 2100 atk or def and special summon it.
[4:07] Sound4: "I also get to summon 2100 machine monster from gy" <- this is the absolute worst way to declare anything. Use the buttons. There is 0 reason to not use the buttons
[4:07] JesusHH123: "you know you can declare their effs with buttons right?"
[4:14] Sound4: Viewed GY
[4:17] JesusHH123: "on eff"
You declared the effect didnt declare your target and your opponent said 10 seconds after declaration before anything even resolved "on eff" aka "on activation of your effect I have a response" The communication is extremely clear here and it cannot get even more clear here. They communicated they had a response and when that response was in 2 words. cyber dragon wasnt even summoned yet.
4:19] JesusHH123: "of summon"
[4:21] Sound4: Stopped viewing GY
[4:24] JesusHH123: "hold on"
[4:31] JesusHH123: "send the cyber dragon back"
[4:31] Sound4: Overlayed "Cyber Dragon" in M-4 onto "Galaxy Soldier" in M-2
You then proceeded to just flat out ignore your opponent for absolutely no reason destroying the gamestate in its entirety and proceeding to overlay your 2 level 5 monsters to begin an xyz summon.
6:36] Sound4: "That does not mean anything if you have a response you say "response" I saw nothing in chat so I thought I was allowed to continue to play"
you are flat out not only sharking but ruining the game and holding up gameplay because they did not say the word "response" exactly that. This behavior is absolutely ridiculous and defending the actions taken here would not be the course of action to take. Everything you did was incorrect and you did everything in this duel with the most malicious of intents.
[9:58] Sound4: "Why did it take you almost 40 seconds to say response"
[10:48] Sound4: "We're you reading my card? You could have read in chat"
[11:01] Sound4: "Sileeis consent in yugioh"
It was 10 seconds not 40 and it was still communicated before anything even resolved so there is no reason to deny the response here.
you posting the cards effect in chat instead of declaring it not only doesnt help your argument but actually goes towards you making the situation more complex. silence is not consent. Every player should always be asking responses to their effects and plays where required and the opponent should always be responding in kind. Any player who does not do these actions is not playing properly and causes issues like these late responses ect.
[28:42] Sound4: "On eff does not mean anything you say "response" when you have a response"
this statement is nonsense. If you actually insist and continue to play demanding that the other players are not allowed to respond unless they say the word respond You will be removed from rated play.
[31:48] Sound4: "I would like an appeal"
[31:53] N3sh: "denied"
^you appealed their ruling and they denied it That means the judge call is over and you need to continue the game or be lossed for non compliance.
You then proceeded to try and force answers out of the judge instead of playing the game. The judge gave the ruling and denied the appeal. There is no debate to be had at that point you either need to comply or be removed from the game.
[45:01] Sound4: "You said nothing on silence is consent in yugioh"
[45:11] N3sh: "cause he wasnt silence"
[45:15] N3sh: "he tried to respond"
[45:20] N3sh: "and u did ignore him"
I already explaind how this works but almost 15 minutes after the game needed to continue ur still trying to argue with the judge.
[46:35] Sound4: "I want the correct answer how is on eff acceptable"
[46:45] Sound4: "Stop eveading
ur demanding a non existant answer as to why communicating when you want to respond is not good enough communication.
[39:11] Sound4: "Ok your opinion on the on my comment"
^this is where I would have been done and ended the game. You would either be asked by me to knock it off and drop the subject and move on last warning or you would get a loss and a uc minor.
so I have gone through the entire game the rest of it after that point is the same song and dance. goes on for a while still. The only thing I see done incorrectly is the judge being extremely lenient me and most other judges wouldnt have even entertained furthur conversation on that matter and kept the duel proceeding once the appeal was denied and you were asked to continue. your behavior in this duel is borderline trolling and very childish. you want things to work exactly the way you want them to work and that is not how things are going to go. please keep my advice in mind and play the game properly while in rated.
N3sh was more than lenient and nice here and you kept wanting to test that and see how far you could go. This is not a game and you are not the only one who needs their judge call answered. Please do not waste judges time like you did in this game.
The discussion is over here.
https://www.yugioh-card.com/ph/event/ru ... s/?lang=en
Here is a link on how it is played in tournaments
"Though an average of 3 minutes may be spent on each turn, excessive time should not be spent to allow the tournament to proceed properly. Any duelists caught taking too long (or intentionally stalling for time) may be penalised".
You say how I said nachster 2nd eff was horrible. The reason why I did that was because I wanted to make jt clear what nachster 2nd eff so my opponent doesn't have to read so he can respond quicker. I was asking questions why he took so long. What you are saying contradicts what other have agreed with in the past about silence is consent in yugioh. From 4:07 to 4:14 I literally waited an extra seven seconds for my opponent took so long to respond.
I don't understand why N3sh didn't mention that when I made it clear my nachster 2nd eff was activating. In a duel your suppose to communicate clearly in a duel so the opponent knows what are trying to do. I didn't know what my opponent response was as well. I saw nothing in GY so it couldn't have been ash.
There is nothing in this duel that would warrant a game loss. Me asking questions isn't against the rules. I would have literally gotten the game loss if I was sharing and N3sh would have mentioned it.
The way N3sh was acting was also terrible. Him saying that he doesn't want to read what I am saying because he had "other calls" there are other judges for that. I wanted answers to make the situation is clear l. There is nothing clear with "on eff" it was never a good indication if you have a response or not. I explained everything well but N3sh didn't care and wanted rush and ignore.
Okay first of all to quote your own recourse:
• Any behaviors or actions that result in a delay of the duel/event may result in penalties towards the offender(s).
• If the duelist acts in such a way which causes unreasonable stalling for time unintentional or otherwise), the referee will first issue a 'warning'.
Using that as a reference in a real life tournament you would have gotten whatever penalty the judges there believed was fitting in this scenario, however real life tournaments and DB don’t have the same rules, regardless if that is something good or not.
Don’t know if someone else pointed that out up until this point, but:
[76:31] "Herz eff"
[77:12] Added "Cyber Dragon Core" from Deck to hand
You aren’t able to add Cyber Dragon Core from your deck to your hand using Cyber Dragon Herz’s last effect since its name isn’t Cyber Dragon while in the deck. You would only be able to add the original cyber dragon from your deck, or nachster, cyber dragon, or the other copy of herz from your GY. In none of these scenarios would you end up with core in your hand after herz resolved. I don’t know if that was done maliciously and I don’t really care, just pointing it out. The exact same thing happens at the beginning of the game where you again add nachster with herz’s effect, again not saying you did that with malicious intent, just saying that was an illegal move that the judge didn’t caught at the time.
( This is herz’s relevant effect by the way: “If this card is sent to the GY: You can add 1 other "Cyber Dragon" from your Deck or GY to your hand.” ) ( It mentions "Cyber Dragon" as in the first cyber dragon monster, in doesn’t mention "Cyber Dragon" monster , like cards such as Cyberload Fusion do )
Something else that I haven’t seen being mentioned up to this point. Nachster’s eff in the hand (to summon itself) and Naschter’s eff on the field are different effects. However you mention [4:07] "I also get to summon 2100 machine monster from gy", just as if they are the same effect, which can definitely be seen as misleading your opponent, intentionally (to avoid potential interuptions such as belle, imperm, veiler, etc) or unintentionally (you didn’t know how your cards work), one could suggest that you just didn’t know how to declare your effects properly but there is no other instance of you not declaring an effect like that in that game which by itself is suspicious and implies intention behind that. Something else I noticed:
[3:39] Special Summoned "Cyber Dragon Nachster" from hand (2/2) to M-3 (DEF)
[4:07] "I also get to summon 2100 machine monster from gy"
You took your sweet time before declaring naschter’s trigger effect that activates on the field. That would suggest 2 scenarios:
1) You wanted to waste your opponent’s time and stall (remember they didn’t have any mandatory trigger effects to activate, so you would be able to activate naschter’s effect before they had a chance to respond and there was no reason for you to wait 28 seconds to declare its effect)
2) You straight out forgot to activate its trigger effect and remembered it at that point, something to point out though is that your opponent could have responded at that point so you delaying such an effect could be seen as maliciously trying to gain information about your opponent’s hand
(In either case you shouldn’t have waited so long to activate naschter’s effect )
I am not saying that you did in fact do one of the above I am just saying that this is easily how a spectator that just sees the replay could interpret the situation
Don’t take this as a personal attack, I don’t know you and you don’t know me, I got nothing against you I am just giving my perspective on the matter as objectively as I possibly can.
As a personal suggestion, don’t post replays that have ambiguous interpretation as this one, since some people that see them might ask for penalties. In this case the judge didn’t apply any penalty due to them thinking that none were needed (although other judges could have applied a penalty as previously mentioned by genex), although that might not always be the case so you might want to show as much understanding to the judges as the judge in question showed to you this time (even if cannot see that at this point in time).
(Also sorry for the wall of text)