GX Archetype Spotlight: Rats

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Skyonator
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GX Archetype Spotlight: Rats

Post #1 by Skyonator » Wed Feb 22, 2023 12:27 pm

https://www.duelingbook.com/deck?id=12488010

Lore: Well...they are rats. Many of them and we know since "A Plague Tale" (which MIGHT have inspired this deck :D ) that rats can be absolutely deadly even without the plague.

Gameplay: While this Deck is pretty weak in defense its pretty strong in offense. With "Relentless Rat Assault" and "Endless Swarm of Rats" and aslo the field spell "Rat Breeding Ground" you got an endless supplie on little squeaking soldiers which kamikaze on enemy monsters and attack the opponent.

Wording could be a problem here again. It seems im resistent to learning^^
Im a german custom cards creator.
I mostly create "oldschool" Decks settled in either the DM, GX or 5Ds era.

Dont judge me for my bad english :D

Christen57
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Post #2 by Christen57 » Thu Feb 23, 2023 3:46 am

Currently, this archetype stands no chance against any remotely competitive/rogue deck. It isn't "pretty weak in defense but pretty strong in offense". It's extremely weak in both those categories, so I suggest the following changes to fix that.

Buff Fierce Rat's effect from:
If this card attacks a monster it gains 300 ATK till the End Phase. If this card gets attacked switch it to Defense Position.
to:
If this card attacks while you have no cards in your Extra Deck, it gains 3000 ATK during damage calculation only. If this card attacks, it is changed to Defense Position at the end of the Damage Step.

Foul Rat's effect from:
If this card is destroyed by battle: Inflict 500 LP damage
to:
If this card is destroyed by battle: Roll a six-sided die and inflict damage to your opponent equal to the result x 500. You must have no cards in your Extra Deck to activate and resolve this effect.

Plague Rat's effect from:
If this card is destroyed summon 1 "Rat" - Token (Beast/DARK/Level 1/ATK 100/DEF 100) to your side of the field.
to:
If this card is destroyed: You can Special Summon 1 "Rat" monster from your hand/Deck in Attack Position. You must have no cards in your Extra Deck to activate and resolve this effect.

Vicious Rat's effect from:
You take no battle damage from battles with this card. If this card attacks, summon 1 "Rat"- Token (Beast/DARK/Level 1/ATK 100/DEF 100) to your side of the field.
to:
You take no battle damage from battles involving this card. At the start of the Damage Step, if this card attacks: You can Special Summon 1 "Rat" monster from your hand/Deck in Attack Position. You must have no cards in your Extra Deck to activate and resolve this effect.

Evil Rat's effect from:
If this card is destroyed and sent to the GY: Add 1 Permanent Spell which contains "Rat" in its name from your Deck to your Hand.
to:
When this card is sent to the GY (except during the End Phase) or destroyed: You can add 1 "Rat" card from your Deck to your hand. You must have no cards in your Extra Deck to activate and resolve this effect.

Box of Rats's effect from:
Discard 1 "Rat" Monster. Summon up to 3 "Rat"- Tokens (Beast/DARK/Level 1/ATK 100/DEF 100) to your side of the field.
to:
If you have no cards in your Extra Deck: Discard 1 monster; Special Summon 3 "Rat" monsters from your Deck in Attack Position.

Endless Swarm of Rats's effect from:
Once per turn, if 2 or more "Rat" monsters are destroyed by battle: In your Main Phase 2, Special Summon "Rat" monsters from your GY up to the number of "Rat" monsters destroyed this Battle Phase
to:
At the end of the Battle Phase, if 2 or more cards were destroyed by battle this turn: Special Summon "Rat" monsters from your GY in Attack Position up to the number of cards destroyed by battle this turn.

Rat Breeding Ground's effect from:
All "Rat" monsters gain 300 ATK. Up to 3 times per turn in your Battle Phase, if a "Rat" monster is destroyed by battle: Summon 1 "Rat"- Token (Beast/DARK/Level 1/ATK 100/DEF 100) to your side of the field.
to:
Once per turn: You can target any number of cards on your field and/or GY; shuffle them into the Deck, then draw 1 card, show it, and if it is a "Rat" monster, Special Summon it in Attack Position, and if you do, draw 1 more card. You must have no cards in your Extra Deck to activate and resolve this effect.

Relentless Rat Assault's effect from:
In your Battle Phase, you take no damage from battles involving "Rat" monsters. If a "Rat" Monster battles, destroy the other monster at the end of the Damage Step.
to:
The first time you would take battle damage from a battle involving your "Rat" monster each turn, you do not. At the end of the Damage Step, if your "Rat" monster attacked: Target 1 monster your opponent controls; destroy it. You must have no cards in your Extra Deck to activate and resolve this effect.

Appearing rats's effect from:
If a monster your opponent controls declares an attack: Summon 2 "Rat" - Tokens (Beast/DARK/Level 1/ATK 100/DEF100) and switch the attack to one of it.
to:
If a monster declares an attack and you have no cards in your Extra Deck: Special Summon 1 "Rat" monster from your hand/Deck/GY to its controller's opponent's field, and if you do, change the attack target to that Summoned monster and proceed to damage calculation. If there is only 1 card on the field, you can activate this card from your hand or GY.

and Rat Ressurection's effect from:
Target 2 "Rat" Monsters in your Graveyard; add those targets to your hand.
to:
Target 2 "Rat" cards in your GY including a monster; add them to your hand, and if this effect adds 2 monsters to your hand, you can shuffle any number of cards from your field and/or GY to the Deck, otherwise you cannot activate Spell Cards or effects until the end of the next turn.

Skyonator
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Post #3 by Skyonator » Sat Feb 25, 2023 6:27 pm

Whoa Christen o.o I know you only have the best intentions but you maybe went a bit far this time 0.0

I mean.. Fierce Rat..with your effect that would be a Level 4 Monster with a 4700 ATK attack with no costs.

Same with your new Foul Rat effect that, if your lucky, can do 3000 Dmg.

I have to admit i dont like the "restriction" of "No cards in your Extra Deck" very much because in GX the Extra Deck wasnt as crucial for many Decks as nowadays. Last i have to say that i also thought about special summoning the Rats from the Deck but i want them to suicide on enemy monsters to destroy them. If i use Monsters for that im out of monsters very fast so i need Tokens for that. Ok ok that was much criticism. Dont get me wrong i would love (most of) these changes but its the same problem as always^^ Custom games are ragequit games ^^ But your right, in their current state they are a bit weak. Maybe i buff the tokens or several other cards but not in the amount you would have^^

And just to be clear (but i hope you already know): I value your opinion very much and hope for reviews in the future :)

PS: Im open for other opinions or explanations why you buffed this card that much etc. :)
Im a german custom cards creator.
I mostly create "oldschool" Decks settled in either the DM, GX or 5Ds era.

Dont judge me for my bad english :D

Christen57
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Post #4 by Christen57 » Sat Feb 25, 2023 10:17 pm

Skyonator wrote:Whoa Christen o.o I know you only have the best intentions but you maybe went a bit far this time 0.0

I mean.. Fierce Rat..with your effect that would be a Level 4 Monster with a 4700 ATK attack with no costs.

Same with your new Foul Rat effect that, if your lucky, can do 3000 Dmg.

I have to admit i dont like the "restriction" of "No cards in your Extra Deck" very much because in GX the Extra Deck wasnt as crucial for many Decks as nowadays. Last i have to say that i also thought about special summoning the Rats from the Deck but i want them to suicide on enemy monsters to destroy them. If i use Monsters for that im out of monsters very fast so i need Tokens for that. Ok ok that was much criticism. Dont get me wrong i would love (most of) these changes but its the same problem as always^^ Custom games are ragequit games ^^ But your right, in their current state they are a bit weak. Maybe i buff the tokens or several other cards but not in the amount you would have^^

And just to be clear (but i hope you already know): I value your opinion very much and hope for reviews in the future :)

PS: Im open for other opinions or explanations why you buffed this card that much etc. :)


There's no need for you to implement absolutely every single one of my suggestions if some of them you're not yet comfortable with. I encourage you to look for better ways to buff those cards if you find any.

However, we already have cards like Injection Fairy Lily, Limiter Removal, Honest, and Moon Mirror Shield which all increase monsters' ATK to ridiculous amounts yet see no competitive play. They have different restrictions to balance them, like how Injection Fairy Lily requires life points, Honest requires a LIGHT monster, and Limiter Removal destroys the machine monster(s) in the end phase.

Similarly, Fierce Rat monster should have a minor restriction to balance its effect. I suggested that that restriction is for the extra deck to be empty so this card couldn't be easily splashed into decks that use the extra deck, but maybe you have a different/better restriction in mind.

Plus, while that ATK boost allows it to easily beat over most monsters, it can still get easily beaten itself since that effect still triggers only while it's attacking and not while it's being attacked.

Foul Rat dealing 3000 damage at best is perfectly fine, especially since, like you said, you need to be very lucky for that to happen. It's still just as likely to end up dealing only 500 damage instead.

Regarding the possibility of running out of Rat monsters in the deck, you could mitigate that my making some of those cards special summon from only the hand/deck and some of able to special summon from also the graveyard.

Death Rat, for example, could be buffed from:
You can discard this card to summon 2 "Rat" - Tokens (Beast/DARK/Level 1/ATK 500/DEF 500) to your side of the field.
to:
You can discard this card; Special Summon 2 other "Rat" monsters in Attack Position from your hand, Deck and/or GY. You must have no cards in your Extra Deck to activate and resolve this effect.

This is how you really make an archetype weak in defense but strong in offense. You give it explosive powerful offensive tools like high damage and ATK-gain but also make it highly vulnerable to counterattacks by the opponent by making the monsters' default ATK very low, setting their default DEF to extremely low values like 0, making them switch themselves to defense after battling, making them have no reliable way of disrupting the opponent's combos/plays during their turn, etc.

Skyonator
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Post #5 by Skyonator » Sat Feb 25, 2023 11:05 pm

I big thank you for that explanation and clarification.

I tinkered a bit with the Deck after your review and came to conclusion that the Deck should swarm. With tokens and stuff. You saw the reworked deck since you reviewed "Death Rat".
I tested it a bit and would say that for my purpose, which is using it in custom duels, the deck is fine the way it is right now (maybe minor adjustements) but i think i will hold it like i did it with my Thieves Guild Deck: Have this deck on one side and the "Buffed" version on the other side.

Im still learning and you have a great effect on me (which i wont negate. :D sry couldnt resisit^^) and trough your explanation here i understood your intentions with the changes far better then before. But you also said yourself that these ar just suggestions and that i should find my own way of balancing these cards. Thx for these wise words.

PS: Its midnight rn and im extremely tired. If this post is angry, weird or something else im officially sorry :lol: And now good night
Im a german custom cards creator.
I mostly create "oldschool" Decks settled in either the DM, GX or 5Ds era.

Dont judge me for my bad english :D


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