Some retrains and a Deck

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IlluminoPseudonymous
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Some retrains and a Deck

Post #1 by IlluminoPseudonymous » Mon Feb 06, 2023 1:27 am

Feedback on this Deck, please? I tried retrains of classic chaos cards for a modern format
https://www.duelingbook.com/deck?id=12390983

Christen57
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Post #2 by Christen57 » Mon Aug 28, 2023 8:04 pm

Black Luster Chaos Soldier- Envoy of Creation's effect can be shortened from:
(This card is always treated as a "Black Luster Soldier" monster)
Cannot be Normal Summoned/Set. Must first be Special Summoned by having 2 or more banished LIGHT monsters and 2 or more banished DARK monsters. Whenever another of your cards is banished, banish the same number of cards your opponent controls.

to:
(This card is always treated as a "Black Luster Soldier" card.)
Cannot be Normal Summoned/Set. Must first be Special Summoned by having 2 or more banished LIGHT and 2 or more banished DARK monsters. When your card(s) is banished: Banish the same number of cards your opponent controls.


  • Effects that always treat themselves as part of an archetype need to do so as that archetype's "card," not as that archetype's "monster". Monster Cards don't always have to be monsters. They can sometimes become treated as equip spells or something because of a card like Relinquished, so it wouldn't make sense for this to still always treat itself as a "monster" in those situations
  • I'm not yet entirely sure if "2 or more banished LIGHT and 2 or more banished DARK" is the best way to shorten that summoning condition, but it makes sense to me at the moment, and is shorter than saying "monsters" twice there
  • "When your" can be used here instead of "Whenever another of". We don't even really use the term "whenever" here unlike in Magic The Gathering. This monster itself will still need to be on the field by default to trigger this effect, so it won't trigger if it itself is one of the banished cards

You can apply the same PSCT and grammar fixes onto "Chaos Overlord Dragon- Envoy of Destruction". For that card's effect, field is not capitalized as you're not starting a sentence with it nor are you referring to a field spell.

For Helios Sol, Deck is always capitalized when referencing any deck. Also, you no longer need to start an effect with "This card gains X amount of ATK for each Y". You can just say "Gains X amount of ATK for each Y" without including "This card" since such effects will always apply to that card itself by default.

You also no longer need to say "ATK and DEF" when giving monsters such ATK and DEF increases. You can say "ATK/DEF" and that monster will still gain/lose that much ATK and DEF.

Helios Sol, Triplicate Helios, Duo Helios, and other custom cards in general, shouldn't "always" treat themselves as a different specific name. This is because of the maximum of 3 rule where if you run 3 copies of a card that treats itself as another specific card, you then can't run any copies of that original specific card your card is treating itself as. Duelingbook currently doesn't apply the maximum of 3 rule to customs when players are deckbuilding, so there's no way in-game to know you aren't cheating by running 3 of your custom Helios Sol (that always treats itself as Helios The Primordial Sun) while running 3 copies of Helios The Primordial Sun itself in that deck.

Triplicate Helios's last effect needs to use a colon after its activation condition, not a semi-colon which is used after you perform any actions when activating the card before the opponent gets to respond such as targeting, paying costs, etc. So instead of:
If this card is banished; Special Summon it, and if you do, inflict 1000 damage to your opponent, and this card gains 1000 ATK.
that effect should be:
If this card is banished: Special Summon it, and if you do, inflict 1000 damage to your opponent, and if you do that, it gains 1000 ATK.

Also recommend replacing "and this card gains" with "and if you do that, it gains" so the damage will still inflict even if the card itself can't gain ATK, but, it's fine to keep it as "and this card gains" for now if you want.

D.D. Survivalist and D.D. Search Plane need their effects to be more clear if they activate or not, so these replacements should be made to those:

replace:
If this card is Summoned, except by its own effect, you can banish up to 3 cards from your GY; inflict 500 damage to your opponent for each. During each End Phase, if this card is banished, you can Special Summon it in Attack Position.
with:
If this card is Summoned except by its own effect: You can banish up to 3 cards from your GY; inflict 500 damage to your opponent for each. Once per turn, during the End Phase: You can Special Summon this banished card in Attack Position.

I believe the comma after the first "Summoned" isn't necessary, and the next comma should be a colon to indicate the end of the activation condition which is the card itself being summoned by not its own effect. I also believe it would be less confusing if the end phase effect specified that it was once per turn or something, but some official cards still stick with the phrase "During each End Phase" so it might be fine to leave your effect like that.

Also replace:
Once per turn, during the End Phase, if this card is banished, you can Special Summon it. If this card is Summoned, you can banish 1 card from your Deck, except "D.D. Survivalist". If you control "Macro Cosmos", you can Special Summon this card from your hand, but shuffle it into the Deck during the End Phase.
with:
Once per turn, during the End Phase: You can Special Summon this banished card. If this card is Summoned: You can banish 1 card from your Deck except "D.D. Survivalist". If you control "Macro Cosmos", you can Special Summon this card (from your hand), but shuffle it into the Deck during the End Phase.

By using parentheses around "from your hand" and beginning the effect with a comma, you indicate that that special summoning effect doesn't activate. Other than that, using colons for the other effects indicate activation conditions and that those effects activate.

The way you word a Quick Effect is (Quick Effect): with a colon at the end, not with a comma or semi-colon. So for D.D. Chaos Warrior Lady and Banisher of a Different Dimension, you should make these adjustments:

replace:
During the Battle Phase (Quick Effect), you can banish this monster; banish a monster your opponent controls, then add 1 "D.D.", "Helios", or "Chaos" monster from your Deck to your hand.
with:
During the Battle Phase (Quick Effect): You can banish this card; banish a monster your opponent controls, then add 1 "D.D.", "Helios", or "Chaos" monster from your Deck to your hand.

and replace:
You can banish your GY (Quick Effect); Special Summon this card, then add 1 "D.D." or "Helios" monster from your Deck to your hand. If a card would be sent to the GY, banish it instead.
with:
(Quick Effect): You can banish your GY; Special Summon this card, then add 1 "D.D." or "Helios" monster from your Deck to your hand. Any card sent to the GY is banished instead.

Also, Banisher of a Different Dimension needs to specify where it's special summoning itself from, because it currently doesn't; so it should be "Special Summon this card from your hand" or something, instead of just "Special Summon this card".

Also, we don't say "If a card would be sent to the GY banish it instead". We say "Any card sent to the GY is banished instead" which is shorter.

Agonizing Choice is broken, especially in decks that love banishing some of their own cards, such as Thunder Dragon and Gren Maju strategies. There's no need to retrain Painful Choice, so Agonizing Choice should be deleted.

You can apply my suggestions so far to the rest of your archetype's cards, so make Helios Cosmos only treat itself as Macro Cosmos while in the hand/field/GY/whatever and not while in the deck, replace the activation conditions' commas with colons to indicate that those things activate, and replace the effect, that redirects graveyard-bound cards to banishment, with the correct way to word that that I showed you.

Your custom monster Chaos Angel should be deleted as there's already an official Chaos Angel in the game, so having a custom with literally the same name would confuse people.

Silent Magician of Chaos's effect can be shortened from:
1 Tuner + 1+ non-Tuner monsters
For this card's Synchro Summon, you can also treat 1 Level 4 "Gaia The Fierce Knight", "Magnet Warrior" or "Gadget" monster you control as a Tuner. While face-up on the field, this card's Attribute is also treated as DARK. Monsters you control are unaffected by your opponent's Spell effects. Any Spell sent from the field to your opponent's GY is banished instead. Once per turn, when your opponent activates a Spell Card or effect (Quick Effect): You can make both players draw until they have 6 cards in their hand, and if you do, negate the activation.

to:
1 Tuner + 1+ non-Tuner monsters
For this card's Synchro Summon, you treat 1 "Gaia The Fierce Knight", "Magnet Warrior" or "Gadget" monster you control as a Tuner. While face-up on the field, this is also DARK-Attribute. Unaffected by your opponent's Spell effects. Any Spell sent from the field to your opponent's GY is banished instead. Once per turn, when your opponent activates a Spell Card or effect (Quick Effect): You can make both players draw until they have 6 cards in their hand, and if you do, negate the activation.


  • You don't need "also" when letting a synchro monster treat another certain monster as a tuner for its own summon
  • I don't believe requiring the Gaia The Fierce Knight / Magnet Warrior / Gadget monster to be specifically level 4 is necessary, as I believe the vast majority of cards in those categories are already level 4 anyway
  • "this card's Attribute is also treated as DARK" can be shortened to "this card is also DARK-Attribute". See Light and Darkness Dragon for an example of this wording
  • I see you worded Quick Effect correctly in this effect unlike the previous cards' effects

Chaos Apprentice's effect can be shortened from:
1 LIGHT and 1 DARK monster
When this card is Link Summoned: Banish 1 card this card points to and its owner can Special Summon 1 monster from their Deck that is the same Atribute, but a different name. You can only use this effect of "Chaos Apprentice" once per turn. While this card is on the field, anytime a non-DARK and non-LIGHT monster is summoned: Inflict 500 damage to the owner of that card.

to:
1 LIGHT and 1 DARK monster
If this card is Link Summoned: Banish 1 card it points to, and if you do, its owner can Special Summon 1 monster from their Deck with the same Attribute but a different name. You can only use this effect of "Chaos Apprentice" once per turn. If exactly 1 monster that is neither LIGHT nor DARK is Summoned (and no other cards): Inflict 500 damage to its owner.


Monsters like Chaos Apprentice and Soul-Absorbing Bone Tower will already need to be face-up on the field by default to trigger their "When/If X monster is Summoned" effects when X monster doesn't include themselves, so there's no need to specify that Chaos Apprentice's effect triggers "While this card is on the field" as it will need to already be face-up on the field, by default, to trigger that effect.

The last effect can be shortened and worded the way I propose, especially so it's more clear whether or not this effect can trigger in response to multiple monsters being summoned at the same time.

Chaos Tamer is broken and should be deleted. Several generic or semi-generic link monsters, with effects to easily special summon other monsters from the deck for little to no cost, have already been banned as they ended up getting abused:
  • Simorgh, Bird of Sovereignty
  • Crystron Halqifibrax
  • Guardragon Elpy
  • Summon Sorceress
  • Knightmare Mermaid
  • Mecha Phantom Beast Auroradon

"Amy the Chaos Charmer, Shadows" is also abusable. It's a semi-generic link 2 that can revive any light or dark monster from either player's graveyard for free, along with a floating effect. There's a reason link-2s that special from the graveyard for free usually have a strict requirement (such as only special summoning from the opponent's graveyard) or restrict your ability to summon for the rest of the turn or something, such as Splash Mage and Marincess Coral Anemone.

Nephalim the Chaos-Elemental is also broken. A free special summon from the hand, special summon from the graveyard, and adding any LIGHT or DARK monster from the deck to the hand, all in 1 card, is too strong. Even if you can't summon the added card or activate the monster effects of the added card for the rest of the turn, you can still add a powerful hand trap or something to your hand to use next turn, or add a pendulum monster so you can activate it as a spell card, circumventing the "can't summon and can't activate monster effect" restriction.

Dimensional Summoner and Zero Dimension Dragon are both abusable generic synchros with more free special summons and a free omni-negate respectively.

D.D. Guardian Warrior Lady can say "1+ non-Tuners" instead of "1 or more non-Tuners". We don't say "or more" anymore in synchro material requirements.

Also, her last effect should have "Banish" capitalized since you're starting it right after a colon. Normally you don't capitalize that word, but in this case you do since it's coming right after a colon.


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