Deck Spotlight: Neceron

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UberTrainerMinusInfinity
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Deck Spotlight: Neceron

Post #1 by UberTrainerMinusInfinity » Tue Dec 27, 2022 12:23 pm

NECERON
https://www.duelingbook.com/deck?id=11573520
Year of Origin: 2012, as part of Dinofroz, but this uses the dragons from it's second season in 2015.
Is it real?: Yes
Ace Monster: Drakemon, Neceron's Successor and Bane To The Dinofroz
The Main Races: Dragon
The Main Attributes: FIRE
Extra Monsters: Fusion, Xyz
Attack: 5/5
Defence: 4/5
Strategy: 4/5
Intellect: 4/5
Luck: 5/5
THE STORY:
In the prehistoric past, behind a board game, the dragon known as Neceron planned to wipe out the dinosaurs with his army of awesome dragons. However, he was eventually defeated by a prophetized warrior, Dinofroz Hero Tom Carter, who you may recognize from the Dinofroz Deck Spotlight.
Flash forward three years later. Neceron's last surviving generals, who fled the final battle, with the help of the DNA found by Professor Warnell, form a new army to try this feat again, this time forging their dragons from the lava of their volcano itself. Leading them is General Treek, who is now known as Drakemon....
STRATEGY:
Bring devestation down to your enemies and make them bow to the new dragon ruler! The Neceron monsters can bring themselves out by banishing a Neceron monster from the hand/field. Their high ATK is already impressive enough, but when they combine using Dragon's Mirror and Neceron's Creation, they will bring the volcano down to your foes!
The Neceron monsters gain a bonus when they're banished AND when they're Special Summoned by their own effects. Hammerhead of Neceron searches out a Neceron card when he's banished and can attack twice per battle phase, Dragon Fire of Neceron gets rid of non-FIRE monsters when he's banished, banishing Spider Yarn of Neceron lets you bounce a Spell/Trap card, and Silverflash of Neceron can return your banished cards back to the GY!
Their flames may be deadly, but their spells are even deadlier! Neceron's Creation lets you Fusion Summon a FIRE Dragon monster, and then sets up a Dragon's Mirror summon for potentially two Fusion monsters in one turn, Neceron's Message lets you banish a Neceron card from anywhere, and Neceron's Wisdom is negation, removal, and a Dragon's Mirror setup all in one!
The Fusion monsters will make your opponent extinct faster than they know it. General Artik, Neceron's Soul stops ATK boosts when he's summoned and can completely nullify Quick-Play spell cards and ATK boosts, General Petraeus, Neceron's Heart prevents level 4 or lower monsters from being used as material when he summoned, prevents monsters from being tributed, and can basically prevent level 4 or lower monsters from being searched, while General Vladmir, Neceron's Chosen not only banishes all level 7 or higher monsters from your opponent's hand when he's summoned, but he also grants your Neceron monsters lifesteal and has a Macro Cosmos attached to him!
Finally, this deck has two deadly ways to bring your opponent to an early extinction. Overlay 2 level 8 Fusion monsters to bring out Drakemon, Neceron's Successor and Bane To The Dinofroz, who blows up all level/rank/link number 6 or lower enemy monsters when he's summoned, and can turn effects into self-damage simply by detaching a material, alongside making Neceron monsters banish cards in your opponent's hand when they inflict damage. If they banish a level 7 or higher monster, or if you can get 4 level 8 Fusion monsters out, you can form Neceron, Lord Of The Dragons and Rival To The Dinofroz, the Dinofroz deck's ace monster who was reworked by Christen57 as part of the Dinofroz rework, who can banish cards based on the number of monster effects activated this turn and has a deadly negation effect!
KILLER COMBOS:
Use Neceron's Message to banish Hammerhead of Neceron, and use his effect to search out Neceron's Creation. With two FIRE Dragons in hand, you can use Neceron's Creation and the Dragon's Mirror it searches out to bring out Drakemon, Neceron's Successor and Bane To The Dinofroz in a single turn! If you can fuse Silverflash Of Neceron this way, and have a spare Dragon's Mirror, which can be searched by Silverflash Of Neceron himself if you can summon him, preferably by banishing a Hammerhead of Neceron to search out another Neceron card, you can bring out another Neceron Fusion monster! IMPORTANT NOTE: Silverflash Of Neceron prevents non-Xyz monsters from attacking on the turn he's summoned.
Using Spider Yarn of Neceron as Fusion Material lets you send 2 Neceron monsters from your deck to the GY, which can set up a Dragon's Mirror, or, with General Vladmir, Neceron's Chosen out, sets up their banishing effects very easily.
Being able to activate their effects when banished, this deck has perfect synergy with the almighty Inferno Tempest, just as long as you can survive the 3000 or more damage required to activate it....

Christen57
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Post #2 by Christen57 » Wed Dec 28, 2022 1:00 am

I already talked about Neceron, Lord Of The Dragons And Rival To The Dinofroz in the Dinofroz thread, so I'll start with that. I just think it still has a bit too much protection, so the part of its effect that reads:
Dragon and Dinosaur monsters you control cannot be destroyed by, Tributed by, or banished by, effects.
should be shortened to:
Dragon and Dinosaur monsters you control cannot be destroyed by, or Tributed by, effects.

so the opponent now has an additional way of dealing with it, which is by banishing.

Dragon Fire Of Neceron's effect should be buffed from:
You can banish 1 ''Neceron'' monster from your hand/field: Special Summon this from your hand, also all other FIRE Dragon monsters gain 400 ATK/DEF. ''Dragon's Mirror'' cannot be negated. When this is banished: You can target 1 non-FIRE monster on the field: destroy it.
to:
You can banish 1 "Neceron" card from your hand/field; Special Summon this card from your hand in Attack Position, and if you do, all face-up monsters you currently control gain 1000 ATK until the end of this turn. The activation and effects of "Dragon's" cards activated on your field cannot be negated. If this card is banished: Target 1 face-up non-FIRE monster; destroy it.

I prefer for ATK-increasing effects to increase ATK by a multiple of 500 or 1000 — something easy to calculate mentally and won't take up too much time — versus 400 ATK. Also, I don't think it's necessary for this to also increase defense and I think it's negate-proofing should apply to all your "Dragon's" cards instead of just Dragon's Mirror.

I recommend these changes to the rest of your archetype's cards to make their wording more similar and improve their balancing and readability.

Hammerhead Of Neceron
You can banish 1 "Neceron" card from your hand/field; Special Summon this card from your hand in Attack Position, and if you do, banish the top 3 cards of either player's Deck. This card, and any FIRE Dragon Effect Monster that used it as Fusion Material, can make a second attack during each Battle Phase. If this card is banished: Add 1 "Neceron" or "Dragon's" card from your Deck/GY to your hand, and if you do not, your opponent can look at your Deck.

Poison Wing Of Neceron
You can banish 1 "Neceron" card from your hand/field; Special Summon this card from your hand in Attack Position, and if you do, inflict 1000 damage to your opponent. Once per turn: You can target up to 3 face-up banished cards, then activate 1 of these effects;
● Return them to the GY.
● Place them on top of the Deck in any order.
● Place them on the bottom of the Deck in any order, and if you do, you can draw 1 card.
If this card is banished: Inflict 100 damage to your opponent for each banished card.


Silverflash Of Neceron
You can banish 1 "Neceron" card from your hand/field; Special Summon this card from your hand in Attack Position, and if you do, skip your opponent's next Battle Phase. Once per turn: You can add 1 of your "Dragon's" cards that is in your Deck, GY, or banished to your hand. If this card is banished: Target up to 5 face-up banished cards, then activate 1 of these effects;
● Return them to the GY, and if you do, you can draw 1 card.
● Shuffle them into the Deck, and if you do, you can return all face-down banished cards to the GY.


Spider Yarn Of Neceron
You can banish 1 "Neceron" card from your hand/field; Special Summon this card from your hand in Attack Position, and if you do, discard 1 random card from your opponent's hand if they have a hand and it is not the first turn of the Duel. "Neceron" monsters you control are unaffected by your opponent's effects during your Battle Phase. If this card is banished: Target 1 Spell/Trap on the field; return it to the hand.

Thunder Dragon Of Neceron
You can banish 1 "Neceron" card from your hand/field; Special Summon this card from your hand in Attack Position, and if you do, your opponent cannot Normal or Special Summon until the end of the next turn, except WATER, FIRE, Dragon, Dinosaur, or Sea Serpent monsters. If your "Neceron" monster attacks, your opponent cannot activate cards or effects until the end of the Damage Step. If this card is banished: Target 1 "Neceron" monster in your GY; Special Summon it.

Neceron's Creation
Fusion Summon 1 "Neceron" monster from your Extra Deck, using monsters from your hand or field, and if you do, you can Set 1 "Dragon's" Spell/Trap from your Deck, but it cannot be activated this turn. If this card is in your GY: You can shuffle any number of your banished "Neceron" cards into the Deck; add it to your hand.

Neceron's Presence
Target 1 of your banished "Neceron" monsters; Special Summon it. If the Summoned monster is a Fusion Monster, inflict 2000 damage to your opponent. If the Summoned monster is an Xyz Monster, attach as many cards on the field as possible to it.

General Artik, Neceron's Soul
2 ''Neceron'' monsters
Unaffected by Trap effects while an Xyz Monster is on the field. Gains 1000 ATK for each "Dinofroz" card your opponent controls. Once per turn, when a Normal or Quick-Play Spell Card is activated (Quick Effect): You can activate this effect; the activated effect becomes "Draw 1 card". Once per turn, if an opponent's monster gains ATK or DEF: The ATK/DEF of all monsters they currently control become 0.


General Petraeus, Neceron's Heart
2 ''Neceron'' monsters
Unaffected by Trap effects while an Xyz Monster is on the field. Gains 1000 ATK for each "Dinofroz" card your opponent controls. Once per turn, when a monster effect is activated (Quick Effect): You can activate this effect; the activated effect becomes "Draw 1 card". Once per turn, if a card is added from your opponent's Deck, Extra Deck, or GY to the hand by an effect: Discard 1 random card from their hand.


General Vladmir, Neceron's Chosen
2 ''Neceron'' monsters
Unaffected by Trap effects while an Xyz Monster is on the field. Gains 1000 ATK for each "Dinofroz" card your opponent controls. Once per turn (Quick Effect): You can make your opponent declare 1 card type (Monster, Spell, Trap), then you look at their hand, and if you do, you can banish 1 card of that type from it, their GY, or their face-up field. Once per turn, if your opponent activates a Trap Card or effect: Shuffle 1 of their Traps that is in their GY, banished, or face-up field into the Deck, then target 1 card they control; destroy it.


Drakemon, Neceron's Successor And Bane Of The Dinofroz
2 Level 8 Fusion Monsters
If this card is Xyz Summoned using a "Neceron" monster as material: Destroy all cards your opponent controls. Once per Chain, if a "Neceron" card inflicts battle or effect damage to your opponent while you control this face-up monster: Look at your opponent's hand, banish 1 card from it, and if you do, they draw 1 card, then if they have a banished Level 7 or higher monster, you can Special Summon 1 FIRE Dragon monster from your Extra Deck in Attack Position, ignoring its Summoning conditions, and if it is an Xyz Monster and this card has material, transfer this card's materials to that monster, but if you do, you cannot Special Summon from the Extra Deck for the rest of this turn.


This xyz monster's effect to xyz summon on top of itself the other rank 8 won't work since that other rank 8 explicitly says it must be xyz summoned using its listed 4 materials, so that last effect needed to be changed.

I recommend deleting Neceron's Lair, Neceron's Message, and Neceron's Wisdom to make room for staples like Gold Sarcophagus which do pretty much the same thing as Neceron's Message, and to make room for more "Dragon's" cards to help this archetype.

UberTrainerMinusInfinity
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Post #3 by UberTrainerMinusInfinity » Wed Dec 28, 2022 10:39 pm

Christen57's changes are now live....and boy, is Neceron a more deadlier force now! The regular monsters get their effects buffed to the max (And in some cases, like Silverflash Of Neceron and Thunder Dragon of Neceron, their downside turns into an upside!) with new powers to stop Special Summoning and Battle Phases dead in the volcano! Neceron's Presence also gains a reliable removal upgrade, and Drakemon himself now nukes EVERY ENEMY CARD when he's summoned!
However, it's not all calm at the volcano. The Fusion monsters have lost ALL their continuous effects except for the flavour based one, thus giving them weaknesses they've never had before, and many of their Spell/Trap cards go down the removed drain. However, I have chosen to keep both Neceron's Message, a combo enabler, and Drakemon's deadly monster effect conversion effect, as otherwise he would just be a beatstick most of the time with a discard effect. Additionally, the Dragon's Mirror set by Neceron's Creation can no longer be activated the turn it was set.
But best of all....THIS DECK STILL WORKS WITH INFERNO TEMPEST!
Thank you for the changes, Christen57! Keep it up!

Christen57
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Post #4 by Christen57 » Thu Dec 29, 2022 12:38 am

UberTrainerMinusInfinity wrote:Christen57's changes are now live....and boy, is Neceron a more deadlier force now! The regular monsters get their effects buffed to the max (And in some cases, like Silverflash Of Neceron and Thunder Dragon of Neceron, their downside turns into an upside!) with new powers to stop Special Summoning and Battle Phases dead in the volcano! Neceron's Presence also gains a reliable removal upgrade, and Drakemon himself now nukes EVERY ENEMY CARD when he's summoned!
However, it's not all calm at the volcano. The Fusion monsters have lost ALL their continuous effects except for the flavour based one, thus giving them weaknesses they've never had before, and many of their Spell/Trap cards go down the removed drain. However, I have chosen to keep both Neceron's Message, a combo enabler, and Drakemon's deadly monster effect conversion effect, as otherwise he would just be a beatstick most of the time with a discard effect. Additionally, the Dragon's Mirror set by Neceron's Creation can no longer be activated the turn it was set.
But best of all....THIS DECK STILL WORKS WITH INFERNO TEMPEST!
Thank you for the changes, Christen57! Keep it up!


I noticed just now that some of the fusion monsters' ATK and DEF end in 50 instead of 00. The monster's with the 2750 stats should have them changed to 2700, and the ones with the 2250 stats should have them changed to 2200. Monsters should rarely have their ATK or DEF end in 50, as numbers that end in 50 or 00, or, heck, even 20 or 30 like the notorious Castle of Dark Illusions, are more tedious to mentally calculate than numbers ending in only 00. This is also why I suggest that some of your effects, that modify ATK/DEF by 300 or 400 or something, instead do it by 100, 500, or 1000 or something, which are far easier to multiply quickly in one's head.

Thunder Dragon Of Neceron's first effect should be nerfed from:
You can banish 1 "Neceron" card from your hand/field; Special Summon this card from your hand in Attack Position, and if you do, your opponent cannot Normal or Special Summon until the end of the next turn, except WATER, FIRE, Dragon, Dinosaur, or Sea Serpent monsters.
to:
You can banish 1 "Neceron" card from your hand/field; Special Summon this card from your hand in Attack Position, and if you do, your opponent cannot Normal or Special Summon until the end of the next turn while you control this face-up monster, except WATER, FIRE, Dragon, Dinosaur, Sea Serpent, or Wyrm monsters.

After testing Neceron's Creation, that card should also be nerfed, and it should be nerfed so it can only fuse materials from the field and no longer the hand also, so:
Fusion Summon 1 "Neceron" monster from your Extra Deck, using monsters from your hand or field, and if you do, you can Set 1 "Dragon's" Spell/Trap from your Deck, but it cannot be activated this turn.
becomes:
Fusion Summon 1 "Neceron" monster from your Extra Deck, using monsters you control, and if you do, you can Set 1 "Dragon's" Spell/Trap from your Deck, but it cannot be activated this turn.

The reason I'm not comfortable keeping Neceron's Message is because it simply serves as way to bypass the fact that Gold Sarcophagus is limited to 1 by acting as Gold Sarcophagus #2, Gold Sarcophagus #3, and Gold Sarcophagus #4.

Also, the reason Drakemon, Neceron's Successor And Bane Of The Dinofroz shouldn't have monster effect negation is because that role was already given to the fusion monster General Petraeus, Neceron's Heart, and it becomes toxic when several different easy-to-summon extra deck monsters have spell speed 2 negates/interruptions. I don't want this archetype turning into Spright Frog 2.0 that just keeps ending on 4+ interruptions and forces opponents to run multiple hand traps to stand a chance.

Because of this, it's perfectly fine for that xyz monster to have nothing but a board wipe, and an effect that rewards battling and damage-inflicting by bringing out a free fire dragon from the extra deck. There's no need for it to give protection and have a quick effect that it can activate on the opponent's turn like the archetype's other extra deck monsters. This effect:
When a monster effect is activated; (Quick Effect) You can detach 1 material from this card: that effect becomes "Take 500 damage for each FIRE Dragon monster on the field."
can and should be removed.

Also, I notice you keep complaining about me asking you to delete certain stuff. So let me be clear about that.

There's a reason I ask that certain things of yours get deleted, and it's not because I hate them and want the archetype to suck or to lose its charm. It's to make the archetype require more deckbuilding skill by requiring the player to get smart by exploring and learning what kinds of cards outside the archetype can and should be added to the deck, instead relying solely on the archetype's in-archetype stuff for every in-game situation.

A very annoying thing so many custom card creators do is make an archetype that consists of 13 different main deck cards that are all really good, and of 5 different extra deck cards that are also all really good, and make it so that, with all 18 of those cards, their archetype can do pretty much everything it needs/wants to do, so they can just run 3 copies of each of those 13 and 5 cards so they have a 39-card deck with a full extra deck, and then just need to look for 1 card outside the archetype to put into the deck to make it a legal 40-card deck.

I admit that I do this myself sometimes, but it's more fun, intense, and skill-promoting when you cut down on some of those main and extra deck cards and force yourself to instead think outside the box more by looking for more cards outside of your archetype to add to the deck/extra-deck.

Sometimes though, you manage to prove me wrong and find a way to take a card that I suggest get deleted and instead modify it in a way I never thought of, making it so it's better off staying in existence and making me change my mind about wanting it gone. ;)

UberTrainerMinusInfinity
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Post #5 by UberTrainerMinusInfinity » Thu Dec 29, 2022 11:32 pm

These three changes are now live. So goodbye, Neceron's Message...sometimes, it was just too simple to be true.
Perhaps you should set up a guide here detailing how you'd make these kinds of changes, such as checking a deck's identity or what it could run. The other duelists will love it, Christen57!

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Post #6 by Christen57 » Fri Dec 30, 2022 3:39 am

UberTrainerMinusInfinity wrote:These three changes are now live. So goodbye, Neceron's Message...sometimes, it was just too simple to be true.
Perhaps you should set up a guide here detailing how you'd make these kinds of changes, such as checking a deck's identity or what it could run. The other duelists will love it, Christen57!


You forgot to change the fusion monsters' stats from 2750 and 2250 to 2700 and 2200, and to delete Neceron's Lair, Neceron's Message, and Neceron's Wisdom.

Also, when figuring out what kind of changes should be made to a custom archetype, some of what I try to figure out are its speed, power, and consistency, as well as what type of deck the archetype wants to be (whether that's Aggro, Combo, Control, Midrange, or Ramp) so that I can better understand what kinds of changes should be made to better balance it and so that its strengths and weaknesses become more clear.

UberTrainerMinusInfinity
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Post #7 by UberTrainerMinusInfinity » Fri Dec 30, 2022 12:35 pm

The two fusion monsters with 50s at the end of their ATK/DEF have now had their ATK/DEF rounded down, and thus certian matchups will be less desirable for them.
Thank you for all these changes, try a decent one next like Dinotrux!

UberTrainerMinusInfinity
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Post #8 by UberTrainerMinusInfinity » Fri May 05, 2023 9:38 pm

After a long consideration, I have decided to bring Neceron's Message back to the deck, since running Soul Release in a modern deck is a big no no, and it was a combo enabler. To make it a lot more balanced and less of a Gold Sarcophagus clone, it is now a hard once per turn, it requires paying half your LP to activate it now, and restricts you into activating Neceron effects the turn you use it. But I hope it will bring the deck back to speed!


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