The PSCT errata we deserve

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greg503
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The PSCT errata we deserve

Post #1 by greg503 » Tue Aug 09, 2022 5:29 pm

A thread for PSCT errata for old, poorly worded cards.
Here's my attempt to make Last Turn do what it should https://www.duelingbook.com/card?id=3393180
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Post #2 by greg503 » Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:14 pm

I made Kaiser Colosseum use better terminology https://www.duelingbook.com/card?id=1525740
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Post #3 by greg503 » Sat Aug 13, 2022 1:24 pm

Graverobber has wacky wording, but I made it concise https://www.duelingbook.com/card?id=2128139
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Post #4 by greg503 » Fri Aug 26, 2022 3:51 pm

This is about all I could do for the stupid Last Will "pseudo-activation": https://www.duelingbook.com/card?id=3401677
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Post #5 by Renji Asuka » Fri Aug 26, 2022 8:08 pm

Last Will is a weird card just looking at TCG Rulings.
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Post #6 by Wek » Fri Aug 26, 2022 8:58 pm

greg503 wrote:I made Kaiser Colosseum use better terminology https://www.duelingbook.com/card?id=1525740

(If both players Summon/Set monster(s) simultaneously and your opponent controls more monsters than you do after the Summon/Set, they send Summoned/Set monsters to the GY until they control the same number of monsters you do, or all of their Summoned/Set monsters have been sent to the GY).

Since when does Kaiser Colosseum result in monsters being sent to the GY like that?

greg503 wrote:Graverobber has wacky wording, but I made it concise https://www.duelingbook.com/card?id=2128139

(Your opponent's GY, don't forget you're using their card.)


I've never seen PSCT use this text, and don't see it adding much. Deleting that redundant sentence wouldn't lose any function.

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Post #7 by greg503 » Fri Aug 26, 2022 9:43 pm

Wek wrote:
greg503 wrote:I made Kaiser Colosseum use better terminology https://www.duelingbook.com/card?id=1525740

(If both players Summon/Set monster(s) simultaneously and your opponent controls more monsters than you do after the Summon/Set, they send Summoned/Set monsters to the GY until they control the same number of monsters you do, or all of their Summoned/Set monsters have been sent to the GY).

Since when does Kaiser Colosseum result in monsters being sent to the GY like that?

From a UDE ruling on Yugipedia: When "Kaiser Colosseum" is active, and "Cyber Jar" is activated, if your opponent would control more monsters than you, your opponent has to destroy monsters equal to the difference; the excess monsters are never actually Summoned and instead are sent from the Deck to the Graveyard (so "Witch of the Black Forest" does not get its effect, etc.). So the monsters are destroyed after they are picked up, but before any monsters are Special Summoned for the effect of "Cyber Jar".
Wek wrote:
greg503 wrote:Graverobber has wacky wording, but I made it concise https://www.duelingbook.com/card?id=2128139

(Your opponent's GY, don't forget you're using their card.)


I've never seen PSCT use this text, and don't see it adding much. Deleting that redundant sentence wouldn't lose any function.

That was actually "reminder text" I added today lol. It isn't PSCT accurate, but you know there have been stories at locals
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Post #8 by Wek » Sat Aug 27, 2022 2:28 am

greg503 wrote:
Wek wrote:
greg503 wrote:I made Kaiser Colosseum use better terminology https://www.duelingbook.com/card?id=1525740

(If both players Summon/Set monster(s) simultaneously and your opponent controls more monsters than you do after the Summon/Set, they send Summoned/Set monsters to the GY until they control the same number of monsters you do, or all of their Summoned/Set monsters have been sent to the GY).

Since when does Kaiser Colosseum result in monsters being sent to the GY like that?

From a UDE ruling on Yugipedia: When "Kaiser Colosseum" is active, and "Cyber Jar" is activated, if your opponent would control more monsters than you, your opponent has to destroy monsters equal to the difference; the excess monsters are never actually Summoned and instead are sent from the Deck to the Graveyard (so "Witch of the Black Forest" does not get its effect, etc.). So the monsters are destroyed after they are picked up, but before any monsters are Special Summoned for the effect of "Cyber Jar".


Huh, wonder if that UDE ruling is still accurate, UDE doesn't really have weight in the modern game, and I don't see any modern citations on Kaiser's rulings page for this. Weird ruling, how is there Kaiser prevention if all of the monsters are summoned at the same time and the field is supposedly clear of monsters before that?

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Post #9 by greg503 » Sun Aug 28, 2022 2:28 am

https://www.duelingbook.com/card?id=3120900
I believe shuffling a card into deck face-up "randomly" is just humanly unresolvable. So I made it stack itself so that it works. Theoretically, this even allows it to work in remote duels, since you just place it and say "this is your next draw, unless Pot of Desires or Gizmek Orochi"
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Post #10 by Christen57 » Mon Aug 29, 2022 12:55 am

This looks like fun. One card that definitely deserves a PSCT errata would be the normal trap card Mystical Refpanel, as it's currently worded so badly that you need a literal list of every possible card it can be activated in response to.

So it's current effect:
Activate only when a Spell Card that targets 1 player is activated. The effect of that Spell Card is applied to the other player instead.
should be changed to:
When a player activates a Spell Card (except during the Damage Step): Activate 1 of these effects.
● Negate the activation, then Set it to the other player's field, and if it is a Quick-Play Spell, it can be activated this turn.
● If it is a Normal or Quick-Play Spell: This effect becomes that Spell's effect when that card is activated.


Since the main purpose of Mystical Refpanel is to turn opponents' spells against them, this change will let the card continue to serve that purpose while making the card much easier to understand.

Another card that should be errata'd to be less confusing is the normal spell card Small World.

It's current effect:
Reveal 1 monster in your hand, choose 1 monster from your Deck that has exactly 1 of the same Type, Attribute, Level, ATK or DEF, and banish the revealed monster from your hand face-down. Then add, from the Deck to your hand, 1 monster that has exactly 1 of the same Type, Attribute, Level, ATK or DEF as the monster chosen from your Deck, and banish the card chosen from the Deck face-down. You can only activate 1 "Small World" per turn.
should be simplified to:
Reveal 2 monsters in your hand and banish them face-down; add 1 Level 4 or higher monster from your Deck to your hand.

Since the main purpose of Small World is to banish a total of 2 monsters face-down in order to search out almost any other monster in the game, this errata would make the card continue to serve that purpose while being simpler to follow without being able to search any of the pieces of Exodia.

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Post #11 by Wek » Mon Aug 29, 2022 1:52 am

Christen57 wrote:This looks like fun. One card that definitely deserves a PSCT errata would be the normal trap card Mystical Refpanel, as it's currently worded so badly that you need a literal list of every possible card it can be activated in response to.

So it's current effect:
Activate only when a Spell Card that targets 1 player is activated. The effect of that Spell Card is applied to the other player instead.
should be changed to:
When a player activates a Spell Card (except during the Damage Step): Activate 1 of these effects.
● Negate the activation, then Set it to the other player's field, and if it is a Quick-Play Spell, it can be activated this turn.
● If it is a Normal or Quick-Play Spell: This effect becomes that Spell's effect when that card is activated.


Since the main purpose of Mystical Refpanel is to turn opponents' spells against them, this change will let the card continue to serve that purpose while making the card much easier to understand.

Another card that should be errata'd to be less confusing is the normal spell card Small World.

It's current effect:
Reveal 1 monster in your hand, choose 1 monster from your Deck that has exactly 1 of the same Type, Attribute, Level, ATK or DEF, and banish the revealed monster from your hand face-down. Then add, from the Deck to your hand, 1 monster that has exactly 1 of the same Type, Attribute, Level, ATK or DEF as the monster chosen from your Deck, and banish the card chosen from the Deck face-down. You can only activate 1 "Small World" per turn.
should be simplified to:
Reveal 2 monsters in your hand and banish them face-down; add 1 Level 4 or higher monster from your Deck to your hand.

Since the main purpose of Small World is to banish a total of 2 monsters face-down in order to search out almost any other monster in the game, this errata would make the card continue to serve that purpose while being simpler to follow without being able to search any of the pieces of Exodia.


Why are you worried about Small World searching a piece of Exodia?

Also, if I'm not mistaken it seems the erratas the OP has gone for so far seem to be aiming to make the text more readable without changing what the card actually does.

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Post #12 by Christen57 » Mon Aug 29, 2022 4:58 am

Wek wrote:
Christen57 wrote:This looks like fun. One card that definitely deserves a PSCT errata would be the normal trap card Mystical Refpanel, as it's currently worded so badly that you need a literal list of every possible card it can be activated in response to.

So it's current effect:
Activate only when a Spell Card that targets 1 player is activated. The effect of that Spell Card is applied to the other player instead.
should be changed to:
When a player activates a Spell Card (except during the Damage Step): Activate 1 of these effects.
● Negate the activation, then Set it to the other player's field, and if it is a Quick-Play Spell, it can be activated this turn.
● If it is a Normal or Quick-Play Spell: This effect becomes that Spell's effect when that card is activated.


Since the main purpose of Mystical Refpanel is to turn opponents' spells against them, this change will let the card continue to serve that purpose while making the card much easier to understand.

Another card that should be errata'd to be less confusing is the normal spell card Small World.

It's current effect:
Reveal 1 monster in your hand, choose 1 monster from your Deck that has exactly 1 of the same Type, Attribute, Level, ATK or DEF, and banish the revealed monster from your hand face-down. Then add, from the Deck to your hand, 1 monster that has exactly 1 of the same Type, Attribute, Level, ATK or DEF as the monster chosen from your Deck, and banish the card chosen from the Deck face-down. You can only activate 1 "Small World" per turn.
should be simplified to:
Reveal 2 monsters in your hand and banish them face-down; add 1 Level 4 or higher monster from your Deck to your hand.

Since the main purpose of Small World is to banish a total of 2 monsters face-down in order to search out almost any other monster in the game, this errata would make the card continue to serve that purpose while being simpler to follow without being able to search any of the pieces of Exodia.


Why are you worried about Small World searching a piece of Exodia?

Also, if I'm not mistaken it seems the erratas the OP has gone for so far seem to be aiming to make the text more readable without changing what the card actually does.


Konami tends to dislike too many cards capable of searching or drawing into Exodia easily.

Also Greg503's errata on Parasite Paracide does change what that card does, as he made it now put itself specifically on top of the opponent's deck instead of being shuffled in there, while his errata on Kaiser Colosseum makes it send stuff to the graveyard when the original doesn't do that. In fact, Kaiser Colosseum is just fine without such an errata, so the only errata it would need at this point is one that would nerf it so it could come off the banlist.

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Post #13 by Wek » Mon Aug 29, 2022 5:55 am

Christen57 wrote:
Wek wrote:
Christen57 wrote:This looks like fun. One card that definitely deserves a PSCT errata would be the normal trap card Mystical Refpanel, as it's currently worded so badly that you need a literal list of every possible card it can be activated in response to.

So it's current effect:
Activate only when a Spell Card that targets 1 player is activated. The effect of that Spell Card is applied to the other player instead.
should be changed to:
When a player activates a Spell Card (except during the Damage Step): Activate 1 of these effects.
● Negate the activation, then Set it to the other player's field, and if it is a Quick-Play Spell, it can be activated this turn.
● If it is a Normal or Quick-Play Spell: This effect becomes that Spell's effect when that card is activated.


Since the main purpose of Mystical Refpanel is to turn opponents' spells against them, this change will let the card continue to serve that purpose while making the card much easier to understand.

Another card that should be errata'd to be less confusing is the normal spell card Small World.

It's current effect:
Reveal 1 monster in your hand, choose 1 monster from your Deck that has exactly 1 of the same Type, Attribute, Level, ATK or DEF, and banish the revealed monster from your hand face-down. Then add, from the Deck to your hand, 1 monster that has exactly 1 of the same Type, Attribute, Level, ATK or DEF as the monster chosen from your Deck, and banish the card chosen from the Deck face-down. You can only activate 1 "Small World" per turn.
should be simplified to:
Reveal 2 monsters in your hand and banish them face-down; add 1 Level 4 or higher monster from your Deck to your hand.

Since the main purpose of Small World is to banish a total of 2 monsters face-down in order to search out almost any other monster in the game, this errata would make the card continue to serve that purpose while being simpler to follow without being able to search any of the pieces of Exodia.


Why are you worried about Small World searching a piece of Exodia?

Also, if I'm not mistaken it seems the erratas the OP has gone for so far seem to be aiming to make the text more readable without changing what the card actually does.


Konami tends to dislike too many cards capable of searching or drawing into Exodia easily.

Also Greg503's errata on Parasite Paracide does change what that card does, as he made it now put itself specifically on top of the opponent's deck instead of being shuffled in there, while his errata on Kaiser Colosseum makes it send stuff to the graveyard when the original doesn't do that. In fact, Kaiser Colosseum is just fine without such an errata, so the only errata it would need at this point is one that would nerf it so it could come off the banlist.


Paracide I'll give you, they said it wasn't humanly resolvable. But Kaiser's text was based on their reading of a UDE ruling making them think the send to GY was part of the effect, mentioned here. viewtopic.php?p=87869#p87869 My main point not being whether or not that view of Kaiser's text is accurate, just that it's what determined the phrasing here.

Guess it's not a big deal in any case. I doubt Greg cares that much if you end up doing it a bit differently than they did anyways. If I'm wrong well then I guess Greg would sort any of that out.

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Post #14 by greg503 » Mon Aug 29, 2022 1:37 pm

Wek wrote:
Christen57 wrote:
Wek wrote:
Why are you worried about Small World searching a piece of Exodia?

Also, if I'm not mistaken it seems the erratas the OP has gone for so far seem to be aiming to make the text more readable without changing what the card actually does.


Konami tends to dislike too many cards capable of searching or drawing into Exodia easily.

Also Greg503's errata on Parasite Paracide does change what that card does, as he made it now put itself specifically on top of the opponent's deck instead of being shuffled in there, while his errata on Kaiser Colosseum makes it send stuff to the graveyard when the original doesn't do that. In fact, Kaiser Colosseum is just fine without such an errata, so the only errata it would need at this point is one that would nerf it so it could come off the banlist.


Paracide I'll give you, they said it wasn't humanly resolvable. But Kaiser's text was based on their reading of a UDE ruling making them think the send to GY was part of the effect, mentioned here. viewtopic.php?p=87869#p87869 My main point not being whether or not that view of Kaiser's text is accurate, just that it's what determined the phrasing here.

Guess it's not a big deal in any case. I doubt Greg cares that much if you end up doing it a bit differently than they did anyways. If I'm wrong well then I guess Greg would sort any of that out.

I am actually trying to make old cards have "modern" text, that also keeps in line with rulings that were, to the best of my research. Parasite Paracide is my main exception because in tournament play, are you not supposed to cut it to the top of the deck each time? It isn't even that much better, but it will save a judge call in any game it resolves.
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Post #15 by greg503 » Mon Aug 29, 2022 1:40 pm

On that note, rate my Spirit Elimination: https://www.duelingbook.com/card?id=1335410
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Post #16 by Christen57 » Mon Aug 29, 2022 5:25 pm

greg503 wrote:A thread for PSCT errata for old, poorly worded cards.
Here's my attempt to make Last Turn do what it should https://www.duelingbook.com/card?id=3393180


A better errata for Last Turn would be:

During your opponent's turn, if their LP are 1000 or less: Target 1 monster you control; your opponent Special Summons 1 monster from their Deck in Attack Position, and if they do, send as many cards as possible from the field and both players' hands to the GY, except that target or that Special Summoned monster, and if you do that, your opponent attacks that target with their monster this effect Summoned. (Any Battle Damage from this battle is treated as 0.) The opponent of the player whose monster gets destroyed by this battle wins the Duel. If no monster gets destroyed by this battle, your opponent wins the Duel.

This errata will accomplish 2 things. First, it should nerf the card enough so it can at least come off the banlist by making it so the opponent must get to special summon first before all other cards on the field and hands get sent to the graveyard, making you no longer able to use Last Turn with Jowgen the Spiritualist for an easy win.
Second, by making it harder to force duels to end in draws with this card, it can no longer easily be used to drag out tournaments unnecessarily, which was one of the main reasons Last Turn was banned in the first place — to keep players from stalling and holding up tournament matches with it.


greg503 wrote:Graverobber has wacky wording, but I made it concise https://www.duelingbook.com/card?id=2128139


This actually makes the card more confusing. You re-worded Graverobber to say:

Target 1 Spell in your opponent's GY; add it to your hand. If you use it, take 2000 damage. During the End Phase, if you didn't activate the card added to your hand by this card, send it from your hand or field to the GY. (Legal team addendum: Your opponent's GY, don't forget you're using their card.)

which creates multiple problems. First, you shouldn't say, "add it to your hand. If you use it, take 2000 damage" because what if the opponent doesn't use it but rather a different copy of it? If I use your version of Graverobber to steal your Mystical Space Typhoon, but then use my own Mystical Space Typhoon, you won't see if it was the same Mystical Space Typhoon I just stole from you, or if it was my own copy of that same card.
Second, like Wek said, there is absolutely no need to include that last part "Legal team addendum: Your opponent's GY, don't forget you're using their card," as any card you steal from your opponent to add to your own hand with cards like Exchange will always, by default, end up going back to the opponent's graveyard (not your own) when the stolen card in question is ready to go back to the graveyard.


greg503 wrote:https://www.duelingbook.com/card?id=3120900
I believe shuffling a card into deck face-up "randomly" is just humanly unresolvable. So I made it stack itself so that it works. Theoretically, this even allows it to work in remote duels, since you just place it and say "this is your next draw, unless Pot of Desires or Gizmek Orochi"


Depends on whether you're errata'ing it for online (duelingbook) play or real life in-person play. If it's the latter, then yes, making it put itself specifically on top of the opponent's deck and stay there, even after shuffles, would be better than requiring the opponent to manually shuffle a card in his deck face-up that he can easily stack if he wanted, but if it's for online play, then I'd say it's latest errata it got when it was reprinted in The Lost Art Promotion 2022 A is good enough.

greg503 wrote:On that note, rate my Spirit Elimination: https://www.duelingbook.com/card?id=1335410


This errata is okay, but that last bit ("also monsters in your GY cannot be banished") isn't necessary.

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Post #17 by Wek » Mon Aug 29, 2022 7:27 pm

greg503 wrote:
Wek wrote:
Christen57 wrote:
Konami tends to dislike too many cards capable of searching or drawing into Exodia easily.

Also Greg503's errata on Parasite Paracide does change what that card does, as he made it now put itself specifically on top of the opponent's deck instead of being shuffled in there, while his errata on Kaiser Colosseum makes it send stuff to the graveyard when the original doesn't do that. In fact, Kaiser Colosseum is just fine without such an errata, so the only errata it would need at this point is one that would nerf it so it could come off the banlist.


Paracide I'll give you, they said it wasn't humanly resolvable. But Kaiser's text was based on their reading of a UDE ruling making them think the send to GY was part of the effect, mentioned here. viewtopic.php?p=87869#p87869 My main point not being whether or not that view of Kaiser's text is accurate, just that it's what determined the phrasing here.

Guess it's not a big deal in any case. I doubt Greg cares that much if you end up doing it a bit differently than they did anyways. If I'm wrong well then I guess Greg would sort any of that out.

I am actually trying to make old cards have "modern" text, that also keeps in line with rulings that were, to the best of my research. Parasite Paracide is my main exception because in tournament play, are you not supposed to cut it to the top of the deck each time? It isn't even that much better, but it will save a judge call in any game it resolves.


Looks like I interpreted the thread correctly then. :D

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Post #18 by greg503 » Mon Aug 29, 2022 9:01 pm

Christen57 wrote:
greg503 wrote:A thread for PSCT errata for old, poorly worded cards.
Here's my attempt to make Last Turn do what it should https://www.duelingbook.com/card?id=3393180


A better errata for Last Turn would be:

During your opponent's turn, if their LP are 1000 or less: Target 1 monster you control; your opponent Special Summons 1 monster from their Deck in Attack Position, and if they do, send as many cards as possible from the field and both players' hands to the GY, except that target or that Special Summoned monster, and if you do that, your opponent attacks that target with their monster this effect Summoned. (Any Battle Damage from this battle is treated as 0.) The opponent of the player whose monster gets destroyed by this battle wins the Duel. If no monster gets destroyed by this battle, your opponent wins the Duel.

This errata will accomplish 2 things. First, it should nerf the card enough so it can at least come off the banlist by making it so the opponent must get to special summon first before all other cards on the field and hands get sent to the graveyard, making you no longer able to use Last Turn with Jowgen the Spiritualist for an easy win.
Second, by making it harder to force duels to end in draws with this card, it can no longer easily be used to drag out tournaments unnecessarily, which was one of the main reasons Last Turn was banned in the first place — to keep players from stalling and holding up tournament matches with it.

Been there done that: https://www.duelingbook.com/card?id=2418949

Christen57 wrote:
greg503 wrote:On that note, rate my Spirit Elimination: https://www.duelingbook.com/card?id=1335410


This errata is okay, but that last bit ("also monsters in your GY cannot be banished") isn't necessary.

Did you know Spirit Elimination forces you to "substitute"?
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Post #19 by Christen57 » Tue Aug 30, 2022 5:30 am

greg503 wrote:
Christen57 wrote:
greg503 wrote:A thread for PSCT errata for old, poorly worded cards.
Here's my attempt to make Last Turn do what it should https://www.duelingbook.com/card?id=3393180


A better errata for Last Turn would be:

During your opponent's turn, if their LP are 1000 or less: Target 1 monster you control; your opponent Special Summons 1 monster from their Deck in Attack Position, and if they do, send as many cards as possible from the field and both players' hands to the GY, except that target or that Special Summoned monster, and if you do that, your opponent attacks that target with their monster this effect Summoned. (Any Battle Damage from this battle is treated as 0.) The opponent of the player whose monster gets destroyed by this battle wins the Duel. If no monster gets destroyed by this battle, your opponent wins the Duel.

This errata will accomplish 2 things. First, it should nerf the card enough so it can at least come off the banlist by making it so the opponent must get to special summon first before all other cards on the field and hands get sent to the graveyard, making you no longer able to use Last Turn with Jowgen the Spiritualist for an easy win.
Second, by making it harder to force duels to end in draws with this card, it can no longer easily be used to drag out tournaments unnecessarily, which was one of the main reasons Last Turn was banned in the first place — to keep players from stalling and holding up tournament matches with it.

Been there done that: https://www.duelingbook.com/card?id=2418949

Christen57 wrote:
greg503 wrote:On that note, rate my Spirit Elimination: https://www.duelingbook.com/card?id=1335410


This errata is okay, but that last bit ("also monsters in your GY cannot be banished") isn't necessary.

Did you know Spirit Elimination forces you to "substitute"?


Wait, if Spirit Elimination (the default one without your errata) makes you banish monsters from your field as substitutes for ones in your graveyard, what if you control no monsters on the field? Can you banish monsters from the graveyard then?

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Post #20 by greg503 » Tue Aug 30, 2022 12:57 pm

Christen57 wrote:
greg503 wrote:
Christen57 wrote:
A better errata for Last Turn would be:

During your opponent's turn, if their LP are 1000 or less: Target 1 monster you control; your opponent Special Summons 1 monster from their Deck in Attack Position, and if they do, send as many cards as possible from the field and both players' hands to the GY, except that target or that Special Summoned monster, and if you do that, your opponent attacks that target with their monster this effect Summoned. (Any Battle Damage from this battle is treated as 0.) The opponent of the player whose monster gets destroyed by this battle wins the Duel. If no monster gets destroyed by this battle, your opponent wins the Duel.

This errata will accomplish 2 things. First, it should nerf the card enough so it can at least come off the banlist by making it so the opponent must get to special summon first before all other cards on the field and hands get sent to the graveyard, making you no longer able to use Last Turn with Jowgen the Spiritualist for an easy win.
Second, by making it harder to force duels to end in draws with this card, it can no longer easily be used to drag out tournaments unnecessarily, which was one of the main reasons Last Turn was banned in the first place — to keep players from stalling and holding up tournament matches with it.

Been there done that: https://www.duelingbook.com/card?id=2418949

Christen57 wrote:
This errata is okay, but that last bit ("also monsters in your GY cannot be banished") isn't necessary.

Did you know Spirit Elimination forces you to "substitute"?


Wait, if Spirit Elimination (the default one without your errata) makes you banish monsters from your field as substitutes for ones in your graveyard, what if you control no monsters on the field? Can you banish monsters from the graveyard then?

The OCG text translates to: "If you remove a monster from the Graveyard from the game, remove the monster from your side of the field instead. This effect is valid only during the activation turn."
Also a UDE ruling includes "During the turn that "Spirit Elimination" is activated; all monsters removed from play must be from your side of the field."
So its very likely mandatory.
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