Common mechanics I recommend avoiding if possible

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KTeknis
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Re: Common mechanics I recommend avoiding if possible

Post #21 by KTeknis » Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:25 pm

To be honest, I'm more wondering if anyone had already known that Futuregamer has been banned before he posted that.
Well, at least his cards are still accessible.
I have interest in badly designed custom cards.
You saw these cards as terrible, I saw them as ideas.

parhelia_0000
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Post #22 by parhelia_0000 » Thu Jan 27, 2022 6:32 pm

Genexwrecker wrote:You spent your entirety of duelingbook telling people to kill themselves. why would we ever want somebody like that on the website?

And people called ME evil for making meta-based custom archetypes! Honestly, I'm quite surprised to see the lengths people will go to attack people directly with Ad Hominem insults as well as threats like that. And people wonder why I said before that custom card reviewers' credibility is questionable...
Last edited by parhelia_0000 on Thu Jan 27, 2022 6:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Christen57
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Post #23 by Christen57 » Thu Jan 27, 2022 6:35 pm

parhelia_0000 wrote:
Genexwrecker wrote:You spent your entirety of duelingbook telling people to kill themselves. why would we ever want somebody like that on the website?

And people called ME evil for making meta-based custom archetypes!


People said your cards were broken, not that you were evil.

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Post #24 by parhelia_0000 » Thu Jan 27, 2022 6:37 pm

Christen57 wrote:
parhelia_0000 wrote:
Genexwrecker wrote:You spent your entirety of duelingbook telling people to kill themselves. why would we ever want somebody like that on the website?

And people called ME evil for making meta-based custom archetypes!


People said your cards were broken, not that you were evil.

Yeah, and honestly, if I have to choose, I'd rather be the person making broken custom cards and be nice to others with a rational thought, rather than being the person who makes fair cards but utters threats like that. It's not cool and people like Futuregamer make custom card "reviewers" look bad.

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Post #25 by parhelia_0000 » Thu Jan 27, 2022 6:50 pm

james123 wrote:
Futuregamer wrote:The reason I was banned had nothing to do with the RPG. Swarmofhostuser was just being a retard as usual, so he banned me without a reason. I specifically asked him for a reason for the ban without adding any spice, and he had nothing to give me. Ftr he's the same guy that had given me a freeze the last time. I deleted the forum signature and avatar on my own afterwards, and one of these days I'll probably delete the profile too.

After the freeze ended I didn't do anything wrong (seriously, I wasn't even using the chat function, I had grown sick of the cheapness of the game) and he still gave me a ban just for not liking me.

So... Am I allowed to tell "that" twat to kill himself Christen57 or would I be a bad sport again?

https://imgur.com/a/bybioLw

That is just Karma for not reading my PM
Saraak wrote:
Futuregamer wrote:When I say people should kill themselves I mean it wholeheartedly. For example ~and be honest here~ can you imagine the kind of person who plays Mystic Mine player not being a parasite to society? I can't. It's not that they should kill themselves for playing a card or having an avatar, it's just a card game. It's that playing a specific card/avatar is a good way to identify the problematic people who most likely should kill themselves, for the sake of their own families, for mostly unrelated reasons.


You actively advocate for people to kill themselves simply because they want to play 1 card and expected not to be frozen? Really? Even if you say that it's just a symptom – like seeing someone cough and conclude that they're sick immediately – it's objectively wrong to declare that they're sick outright without thorough investigation.

Same result here. Just because they're playing Mystic Mine doesn't mean that they're parasites to society. There are literal tournaments in which people simply use the card because it serves as an easy way to buy some time to either OTK or deck the opponent out if they don't have S/T removal (which is their fault for not running any). People will aggregate to unbalanced things and use them. That's just how competitive games work, from MOBAs to even TCGs.

This is the weirdest take that I've ever seen. Just reading that passage single-handedly convinced me that your ban and freezes were justified. That's not the impression you want to make if you're trying to appeal your ban status and etc.


I just had a chance to reread everything that had happened. This gives me bad memories the days when Rocket2 and I used to have a major conflict between each other when people were upset about how my Xenomorph archetype was broken.

See, this is the very reason why I can't trust custom card reviewers anymore. When people conflict with each other about the concept of balance or anything else, they just go complete degenerate mode and spew out Ad Hominem attacks or threats of harm towards others. Glenn Fricker was right...it's easier for someone to just sit around and bitch rather than actually make an effort to rebuttal someone's claims with a rational mind...

Moving forward, I'd say it's best if DuelingBook, as a community, established critical prerequisites for someone to be considered a "qualified" custom card reviewer. I know it's a long shot, but I personally don't want to see a repeat incident happen again where people utter threats towards one another just because of differences in opinions. And when establishing such prerequisites, care must be taken to ensure that ethical values, such as being civil towards one another for example, and clean records of following DB rules, take priority over any and all other requirements.

But what do you guys think? Feel free to let me know.

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Post #26 by Christen57 » Thu Jan 27, 2022 10:54 pm

parhelia_0000 wrote:
Christen57 wrote:
parhelia_0000 wrote:And people called ME evil for making meta-based custom archetypes!


People said your cards were broken, not that you were evil.

Yeah, and honestly, if I have to choose, I'd rather be the person making broken custom cards and be nice to others with a rational thought, rather than being the person who makes fair cards but utters threats like that. It's not cool and people like Futuregamer make custom card "reviewers" look bad.


I would rather choose to be nice and avoid making broken cards. It doesn't have to be one or the other.

I also don't know where you keep getting this "1 custom card reviewer is making all the others look bad" idea from. If you don't want to take advice from a specific reviewer, you don't have to, but you're the only one who I see keeps trying to generalize all of us. Everyone else who shared their custom cards on this forum and accepted feedback did so without any problems and without thinking that 1 bad apple meant that all the other apples were just as bad.

Moving forward, I'd say it's best if DuelingBook, as a community, established critical prerequisites for someone to be considered a "qualified" custom card reviewer.


If we had to establish custom card reviewer qualifications, some standards I would suggest right off the bat include but aren't limited to:

  • The reviewer must understand problem-solving card text and try to stay up to date with any new changes to problem-solving card text. This is important because wording your cards as properly as you can helps reduce confusion among other players when dueling with those cards. https://yugipedia.com/wiki/Problem-Solving_Card_Text
  • The reviewer must stay up to date with the format's meta and latest banlist. This is important because knowing which archetypes are strong competitively at the moment helps you avoid accidentally giving an archetype that's already tier 1 or tier 0 more unneeded custom support.
  • The reviewer must try to figure out the speed, power, and consistency of the archetype they're reviewing. This is important because these 3 are the main factors that help determine how balanced an archetype is. https://www.reddit.com/r/yugioh/comments/33f7pt/comment/cqkeenb/
  • The reviewer must look for any common mechanic(s) meant to help keep the archetype together. This is important because it gives the reviewer an idea of what the archetype's general game plan is.
  • The reviewer must try to figure out what the archetype's type is, and when I say "type" here, I don't mean monster types like warrior and spellcaster, nor am I referring to monster frames like fusion, synchro, xyz, link, etc.
    I'm talking about Aggro, Combo, Control, Ramp, Midrange, and Hybrid. https://ygoprodeck.com/understanding-deck-types-in-yu-gi-oh/
    Figuring this out is important because it gives the reviewer an idea of what kinds of strengths and weaknesses the archetype should and shouldn't have. Aggro decks for example, should focus mostly on high ATK monsters and/or battle-focused effects, but shouldn't be able to quickly assemble so many monsters/floodgates/negations like Combo/Control decks can. Combo and Control decks should focus mostly on lower ATK monsters, while Combo decks should focus more on just that — combos — combining multiple different effects, special summons, and so on to assemble/break some kind of board, and Control decks should focus more on "controlling" the game, slowing the opponent down with floodgates/interruptions, and slowly outgrinding/outresourcing them.
    Ramp decks should have the weakness of having to take some time to get their plays going, maybe taking a minimum of 2-3 turns to get things started, but make up for it by being really strong and overpowering the opponent after getting said plays going.
    Midrange decks focus on very basic aggro, combo, and control plays, assembling basic but decent boards while also being able to do some basic board-breaking of their own. Their main strength should be their versatile toolkit that helps them deal with most threats and do some aggro, combo, control, and ramp plays, while their main weakness should be that they don't excel in any of these. Midrange would be the jack of all trades master of none type.
    Hybrid decks would be any combination of these, like aggro/control, combo/control, aggro/combo, aggro/control/combo, and so on, but Hybrid's main weakness, to balance it out, should be reduced speed or consistency since Hybrid's likely trying to excel in too many different categories at once instead of just picking 1 area and focusing on that.

I also think custom card reviewers should learn from each other as well. I'm not interested in who the "best" or "worst" custom card reviewer on this forum is or anything like that, because our goal at the end of the day should be to give the best feedback on customs we can give, not to compete with each other to see who's the "best" at giving said feedback.

parhelia_0000
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Post #27 by parhelia_0000 » Thu Jan 27, 2022 11:35 pm

Christen57 wrote:
parhelia_0000 wrote:
Christen57 wrote:
People said your cards were broken, not that you were evil.

Yeah, and honestly, if I have to choose, I'd rather be the person making broken custom cards and be nice to others with a rational thought, rather than being the person who makes fair cards but utters threats like that. It's not cool and people like Futuregamer make custom card "reviewers" look bad.


I would rather choose to be nice and avoid making broken cards. It doesn't have to be one or the other.

I also don't know where you keep getting this "1 custom card reviewer is making all the others look bad" idea from. If you don't want to take advice from a specific reviewer, you don't have to, but you're the only one who I see keeps trying to generalize all of us. Everyone else who shared their custom cards on this forum and accepted feedback did so without any problems and without thinking that 1 bad apple meant that all the other apples were just as bad.

Moving forward, I'd say it's best if DuelingBook, as a community, established critical prerequisites for someone to be considered a "qualified" custom card reviewer.


If we had to establish custom card reviewer qualifications, some standards I would suggest right off the bat include but aren't limited to:

  • The reviewer must understand problem-solving card text and try to stay up to date with any new changes to problem-solving card text. This is important because wording your cards as properly as you can helps reduce confusion among other players when dueling with those cards. https://yugipedia.com/wiki/Problem-Solving_Card_Text
  • The reviewer must stay up to date with the format's meta and latest banlist. This is important because knowing which archetypes are strong competitively at the moment helps you avoid accidentally giving an archetype that's already tier 1 or tier 0 more unneeded custom support.
  • The reviewer must try to figure out the speed, power, and consistency of the archetype they're reviewing. This is important because these 3 are the main factors that help determine how balanced an archetype is. https://www.reddit.com/r/yugioh/comments/33f7pt/comment/cqkeenb/
  • The reviewer must look for any common mechanic(s) meant to help keep the archetype together. This is important because it gives the reviewer an idea of what the archetype's general game plan is.
  • The reviewer must try to figure out what the archetype's type is, and when I say "type" here, I don't mean monster types like warrior and spellcaster, nor am I referring to monster frames like fusion, synchro, xyz, link, etc.
    I'm talking about Aggro, Combo, Control, Ramp, Midrange, and Hybrid. https://ygoprodeck.com/understanding-deck-types-in-yu-gi-oh/
    Figuring this out is important because it gives the reviewer an idea of what kinds of strengths and weaknesses the archetype should and shouldn't have. Aggro decks for example, should focus mostly on high ATK monsters and/or battle-focused effects, but shouldn't be able to quickly assemble so many monsters/floodgates/negations like Combo/Control decks can. Combo and Control decks should focus mostly on lower ATK monsters, while Combo decks should focus more on just that — combos — combining multiple different effects, special summons, and so on to assemble/break some kind of board, and Control decks should focus more on "controlling" the game, slowing the opponent down with floodgates/interruptions, and slowly outgrinding/outresourcing them.
    Ramp decks should have the weakness of having to take some time to get their plays going, maybe taking a minimum of 2-3 turns to get things started, but make up for it by being really strong and overpowering the opponent after getting said plays going.
    Midrange decks focus on very basic aggro, combo, and control plays, assembling basic but decent boards while also being able to do some basic board-breaking of their own. Their main strength should be their versatile toolkit that helps them deal with most threats and do some aggro, combo, control, and ramp plays, while their main weakness should be that they don't excel in any of these. Midrange would be the jack of all trades master of none type.
    Hybrid decks would be any combination of these, like aggro/control, combo/control, aggro/combo, aggro/control/combo, and so on, but Hybrid's main weakness, to balance it out, should be reduced speed or consistency since Hybrid's likely trying to excel in too many different categories at once instead of just picking 1 area and focusing on that.

I also think custom card reviewers should learn from each other as well. I'm not interested in who the "best" or "worst" custom card reviewer on this forum is or anything like that, because our goal at the end of the day should be to give the best feedback on customs we can give, not to compete with each other to see who's the "best" at giving said feedback.

I'm a musician in real life. I've seen too many incidents where one member of the band royally fucked up the entire band's reputation by intentionally damaging other people's gear at live shows. If that wasn't bad enough, there's also egotistic frontmen who always act like prima donna's and then wonder why the other band members also have to share the blame. What one person does puts a bad image on everyone, and these aren't isolated cases either.

In terms of custom card reviewers, the most important trait of all that I would like to see is respect towards one another. I don't want to deal with custom card reviewers who refuse to acknowledge the fact that it will never be possible to balance the entire custom format because of how random custom players stick by their own logic of "balance." I don't want to see custom card reviewers spew out insults or even worse, death threats towards one another. (Yes, Futuregamer, I'm talking about you if you're seeing this!) I don't want to see custom card reviewers severely limiting one's wish to create custom cards while taking into account the unpredictability of the strength of other random custom card users.

In short, TL;DR, I want to see custom card reviewers who understand other people's point of view and help each other grow as custom card creators without spewing toxicity into the forums.

And while we're at it I would also like the admins and mods of DB to seriously consider implementing a system that automatically detects and deletes any custom cards that are deemed imbalanced (e.g. insta-win effects, "unaffected by all other card effects" that come at a cheap cost, meaning you have to work towards it) or have poor PSCT format. If we have to purge the custom cards in order to implement this, so be it. If people want custom card format to be 100% balanced once and for all, then we have to have a system that encourages fair play. Without it, it's impossible because there will always be people who make insta-win cards and then argue "It's custom cards, I cAn dO wHaTeVeR I wAnT~!" (Yes, CrystalMusic and Chaosprince, we're all looking at you both as examples.)

Lil Oldman
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Post #28 by Lil Oldman » Thu Jan 27, 2022 11:51 pm

parhelia_0000 wrote:
Christen57 wrote:
parhelia_0000 wrote:Yeah, and honestly, if I have to choose, I'd rather be the person making broken custom cards and be nice to others with a rational thought, rather than being the person who makes fair cards but utters threats like that. It's not cool and people like Futuregamer make custom card "reviewers" look bad.


I would rather choose to be nice and avoid making broken cards. It doesn't have to be one or the other.

I also don't know where you keep getting this "1 custom card reviewer is making all the others look bad" idea from. If you don't want to take advice from a specific reviewer, you don't have to, but you're the only one who I see keeps trying to generalize all of us. Everyone else who shared their custom cards on this forum and accepted feedback did so without any problems and without thinking that 1 bad apple meant that all the other apples were just as bad.

Moving forward, I'd say it's best if DuelingBook, as a community, established critical prerequisites for someone to be considered a "qualified" custom card reviewer.


If we had to establish custom card reviewer qualifications, some standards I would suggest right off the bat include but aren't limited to:

  • The reviewer must understand problem-solving card text and try to stay up to date with any new changes to problem-solving card text. This is important because wording your cards as properly as you can helps reduce confusion among other players when dueling with those cards. https://yugipedia.com/wiki/Problem-Solving_Card_Text
  • The reviewer must stay up to date with the format's meta and latest banlist. This is important because knowing which archetypes are strong competitively at the moment helps you avoid accidentally giving an archetype that's already tier 1 or tier 0 more unneeded custom support.
  • The reviewer must try to figure out the speed, power, and consistency of the archetype they're reviewing. This is important because these 3 are the main factors that help determine how balanced an archetype is. https://www.reddit.com/r/yugioh/comments/33f7pt/comment/cqkeenb/
  • The reviewer must look for any common mechanic(s) meant to help keep the archetype together. This is important because it gives the reviewer an idea of what the archetype's general game plan is.
  • The reviewer must try to figure out what the archetype's type is, and when I say "type" here, I don't mean monster types like warrior and spellcaster, nor am I referring to monster frames like fusion, synchro, xyz, link, etc.
    I'm talking about Aggro, Combo, Control, Ramp, Midrange, and Hybrid. https://ygoprodeck.com/understanding-deck-types-in-yu-gi-oh/
    Figuring this out is important because it gives the reviewer an idea of what kinds of strengths and weaknesses the archetype should and shouldn't have. Aggro decks for example, should focus mostly on high ATK monsters and/or battle-focused effects, but shouldn't be able to quickly assemble so many monsters/floodgates/negations like Combo/Control decks can. Combo and Control decks should focus mostly on lower ATK monsters, while Combo decks should focus more on just that — combos — combining multiple different effects, special summons, and so on to assemble/break some kind of board, and Control decks should focus more on "controlling" the game, slowing the opponent down with floodgates/interruptions, and slowly outgrinding/outresourcing them.
    Ramp decks should have the weakness of having to take some time to get their plays going, maybe taking a minimum of 2-3 turns to get things started, but make up for it by being really strong and overpowering the opponent after getting said plays going.
    Midrange decks focus on very basic aggro, combo, and control plays, assembling basic but decent boards while also being able to do some basic board-breaking of their own. Their main strength should be their versatile toolkit that helps them deal with most threats and do some aggro, combo, control, and ramp plays, while their main weakness should be that they don't excel in any of these. Midrange would be the jack of all trades master of none type.
    Hybrid decks would be any combination of these, like aggro/control, combo/control, aggro/combo, aggro/control/combo, and so on, but Hybrid's main weakness, to balance it out, should be reduced speed or consistency since Hybrid's likely trying to excel in too many different categories at once instead of just picking 1 area and focusing on that.

I also think custom card reviewers should learn from each other as well. I'm not interested in who the "best" or "worst" custom card reviewer on this forum is or anything like that, because our goal at the end of the day should be to give the best feedback on customs we can give, not to compete with each other to see who's the "best" at giving said feedback.

I'm a musician in real life. I've seen too many incidents where one member of the band royally fucked up the entire band's reputation by intentionally damaging other people's gear at live shows. If that wasn't bad enough, there's also egotistic frontmen who always act like prima donna's and then wonder why the other band members also have to share the blame. What one person does puts a bad image on everyone, and these aren't isolated cases either.

In terms of custom card reviewers, the most important trait of all that I would like to see is respect towards one another. I don't want to deal with custom card reviewers who refuse to acknowledge the fact that it will never be possible to balance the entire custom format because of how random custom players stick by their own logic of "balance." I don't want to see custom card reviewers spew out insults or even worse, death threats towards one another. (Yes, Futuregamer, I'm talking about you if you're seeing this!) I don't want to see custom card reviewers severely limiting one's wish to create custom cards while taking into account the unpredictability of the strength of other random custom card users.

In short, TL;DR, I want to see custom card reviewers who understand other people's point of view and help each other grow as custom card creators without spewing toxicity into the forums.

And while we're at it I would also like the admins and mods of DB to seriously consider implementing a system that automatically detects and deletes any custom cards that are deemed imbalanced (e.g. insta-win effects, "unaffected by all other card effects" that come at a cheap cost, meaning you have to work towards it) or have poor PSCT format. If we have to purge the custom cards in order to implement this, so be it. If people want custom card format to be 100% balanced once and for all, then we have to have a system that encourages fair play. Without it, it's impossible because there will always be people who make insta-win cards and then argue "It's custom cards, I cAn dO wHaTeVeR I wAnT~!" (Yes, CrystalMusic and Chaosprince, we're all looking at you both as examples.)


Music bands work always as groups. I've never seen a custom card reviewer who works alongside others, only instance it can happen is when they work reviewing cards for a Discord Server, and correct, if there's a lot of fuck ups in a Custom Card Server, the entire team gets the blame, but I wouldn't consider all card reviewers fall into the same umbrella, you don't blame all indie game developers for the fuck ups a single studio does.
And...

(Yes, CrystalMusic and Chaosprince, we're all looking at you both as examples.)


Im looking at someone else, but ok.
"Complacency? How rude. I live the stifling life of a high school student in our problematic modern society."
Help I cannot remove this music from my head
https://youtu.be/ZuXI7qcNsHQ
Will try reviewing custom cards if they look interesting.

parhelia_0000
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Post #29 by parhelia_0000 » Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:41 am

Lil Oldman wrote:
parhelia_0000 wrote:
Christen57 wrote:
I would rather choose to be nice and avoid making broken cards. It doesn't have to be one or the other.

I also don't know where you keep getting this "1 custom card reviewer is making all the others look bad" idea from. If you don't want to take advice from a specific reviewer, you don't have to, but you're the only one who I see keeps trying to generalize all of us. Everyone else who shared their custom cards on this forum and accepted feedback did so without any problems and without thinking that 1 bad apple meant that all the other apples were just as bad.



If we had to establish custom card reviewer qualifications, some standards I would suggest right off the bat include but aren't limited to:

  • The reviewer must understand problem-solving card text and try to stay up to date with any new changes to problem-solving card text. This is important because wording your cards as properly as you can helps reduce confusion among other players when dueling with those cards. https://yugipedia.com/wiki/Problem-Solving_Card_Text
  • The reviewer must stay up to date with the format's meta and latest banlist. This is important because knowing which archetypes are strong competitively at the moment helps you avoid accidentally giving an archetype that's already tier 1 or tier 0 more unneeded custom support.
  • The reviewer must try to figure out the speed, power, and consistency of the archetype they're reviewing. This is important because these 3 are the main factors that help determine how balanced an archetype is. https://www.reddit.com/r/yugioh/comments/33f7pt/comment/cqkeenb/
  • The reviewer must look for any common mechanic(s) meant to help keep the archetype together. This is important because it gives the reviewer an idea of what the archetype's general game plan is.
  • The reviewer must try to figure out what the archetype's type is, and when I say "type" here, I don't mean monster types like warrior and spellcaster, nor am I referring to monster frames like fusion, synchro, xyz, link, etc.
    I'm talking about Aggro, Combo, Control, Ramp, Midrange, and Hybrid. https://ygoprodeck.com/understanding-deck-types-in-yu-gi-oh/
    Figuring this out is important because it gives the reviewer an idea of what kinds of strengths and weaknesses the archetype should and shouldn't have. Aggro decks for example, should focus mostly on high ATK monsters and/or battle-focused effects, but shouldn't be able to quickly assemble so many monsters/floodgates/negations like Combo/Control decks can. Combo and Control decks should focus mostly on lower ATK monsters, while Combo decks should focus more on just that — combos — combining multiple different effects, special summons, and so on to assemble/break some kind of board, and Control decks should focus more on "controlling" the game, slowing the opponent down with floodgates/interruptions, and slowly outgrinding/outresourcing them.
    Ramp decks should have the weakness of having to take some time to get their plays going, maybe taking a minimum of 2-3 turns to get things started, but make up for it by being really strong and overpowering the opponent after getting said plays going.
    Midrange decks focus on very basic aggro, combo, and control plays, assembling basic but decent boards while also being able to do some basic board-breaking of their own. Their main strength should be their versatile toolkit that helps them deal with most threats and do some aggro, combo, control, and ramp plays, while their main weakness should be that they don't excel in any of these. Midrange would be the jack of all trades master of none type.
    Hybrid decks would be any combination of these, like aggro/control, combo/control, aggro/combo, aggro/control/combo, and so on, but Hybrid's main weakness, to balance it out, should be reduced speed or consistency since Hybrid's likely trying to excel in too many different categories at once instead of just picking 1 area and focusing on that.

I also think custom card reviewers should learn from each other as well. I'm not interested in who the "best" or "worst" custom card reviewer on this forum is or anything like that, because our goal at the end of the day should be to give the best feedback on customs we can give, not to compete with each other to see who's the "best" at giving said feedback.

I'm a musician in real life. I've seen too many incidents where one member of the band royally fucked up the entire band's reputation by intentionally damaging other people's gear at live shows. If that wasn't bad enough, there's also egotistic frontmen who always act like prima donna's and then wonder why the other band members also have to share the blame. What one person does puts a bad image on everyone, and these aren't isolated cases either.

In terms of custom card reviewers, the most important trait of all that I would like to see is respect towards one another. I don't want to deal with custom card reviewers who refuse to acknowledge the fact that it will never be possible to balance the entire custom format because of how random custom players stick by their own logic of "balance." I don't want to see custom card reviewers spew out insults or even worse, death threats towards one another. (Yes, Futuregamer, I'm talking about you if you're seeing this!) I don't want to see custom card reviewers severely limiting one's wish to create custom cards while taking into account the unpredictability of the strength of other random custom card users.

In short, TL;DR, I want to see custom card reviewers who understand other people's point of view and help each other grow as custom card creators without spewing toxicity into the forums.

And while we're at it I would also like the admins and mods of DB to seriously consider implementing a system that automatically detects and deletes any custom cards that are deemed imbalanced (e.g. insta-win effects, "unaffected by all other card effects" that come at a cheap cost, meaning you have to work towards it) or have poor PSCT format. If we have to purge the custom cards in order to implement this, so be it. If people want custom card format to be 100% balanced once and for all, then we have to have a system that encourages fair play. Without it, it's impossible because there will always be people who make insta-win cards and then argue "It's custom cards, I cAn dO wHaTeVeR I wAnT~!" (Yes, CrystalMusic and Chaosprince, we're all looking at you both as examples.)


Music bands work always as groups. I've never seen a custom card reviewer who works alongside others, only instance it can happen is when they work reviewing cards for a Discord Server, and correct, if there's a lot of fuck ups in a Custom Card Server, the entire team gets the blame, but I wouldn't consider all card reviewers fall into the same umbrella, you don't blame all indie game developers for the fuck ups a single studio does.
And...

(Yes, CrystalMusic and Chaosprince, we're all looking at you both as examples.)


Im looking at someone else, but ok.

And now you know why I've never joined any Custom Card servers since 2021.

Speaking of which, I'm very curious to see what you and Christen57 think of my newly introduced archetype, Yautja's.

Lil Oldman
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Post #30 by Lil Oldman » Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:57 am

If I was interested in that I would have made a post by now.
"Complacency? How rude. I live the stifling life of a high school student in our problematic modern society."
Help I cannot remove this music from my head
https://youtu.be/ZuXI7qcNsHQ
Will try reviewing custom cards if they look interesting.

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Post #31 by greg503 » Fri Jan 28, 2022 1:07 am

parhelia_0000 wrote:
Lil Oldman wrote:
parhelia_0000 wrote:I'm a musician in real life. I've seen too many incidents where one member of the band royally fucked up the entire band's reputation by intentionally damaging other people's gear at live shows. If that wasn't bad enough, there's also egotistic frontmen who always act like prima donna's and then wonder why the other band members also have to share the blame. What one person does puts a bad image on everyone, and these aren't isolated cases either.

In terms of custom card reviewers, the most important trait of all that I would like to see is respect towards one another. I don't want to deal with custom card reviewers who refuse to acknowledge the fact that it will never be possible to balance the entire custom format because of how random custom players stick by their own logic of "balance." I don't want to see custom card reviewers spew out insults or even worse, death threats towards one another. (Yes, Futuregamer, I'm talking about you if you're seeing this!) I don't want to see custom card reviewers severely limiting one's wish to create custom cards while taking into account the unpredictability of the strength of other random custom card users.

In short, TL;DR, I want to see custom card reviewers who understand other people's point of view and help each other grow as custom card creators without spewing toxicity into the forums.

And while we're at it I would also like the admins and mods of DB to seriously consider implementing a system that automatically detects and deletes any custom cards that are deemed imbalanced (e.g. insta-win effects, "unaffected by all other card effects" that come at a cheap cost, meaning you have to work towards it) or have poor PSCT format. If we have to purge the custom cards in order to implement this, so be it. If people want custom card format to be 100% balanced once and for all, then we have to have a system that encourages fair play. Without it, it's impossible because there will always be people who make insta-win cards and then argue "It's custom cards, I cAn dO wHaTeVeR I wAnT~!" (Yes, CrystalMusic and Chaosprince, we're all looking at you both as examples.)


Music bands work always as groups. I've never seen a custom card reviewer who works alongside others, only instance it can happen is when they work reviewing cards for a Discord Server, and correct, if there's a lot of fuck ups in a Custom Card Server, the entire team gets the blame, but I wouldn't consider all card reviewers fall into the same umbrella, you don't blame all indie game developers for the fuck ups a single studio does.
And...

(Yes, CrystalMusic and Chaosprince, we're all looking at you both as examples.)


Im looking at someone else, but ok.

And now you know why I've never joined any Custom Card servers since 2021.

Speaking of which, I'm very curious to see what you and Christen57 think of my newly introduced archetype, Yautja's.

Incidentally, has anyone you've dueled gotten mad at you for playing 2032 Yu-Gi-Oh?
Buy Floowandereeze

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Post #32 by parhelia_0000 » Fri Jan 28, 2022 1:12 am

greg503 wrote:
parhelia_0000 wrote:
Lil Oldman wrote:
Music bands work always as groups. I've never seen a custom card reviewer who works alongside others, only instance it can happen is when they work reviewing cards for a Discord Server, and correct, if there's a lot of fuck ups in a Custom Card Server, the entire team gets the blame, but I wouldn't consider all card reviewers fall into the same umbrella, you don't blame all indie game developers for the fuck ups a single studio does.
And...



Im looking at someone else, but ok.

And now you know why I've never joined any Custom Card servers since 2021.

Speaking of which, I'm very curious to see what you and Christen57 think of my newly introduced archetype, Yautja's.

Incidentally, has anyone you've dueled gotten mad at you for playing 2032 Yu-Gi-Oh?

Ari Bellamy and speedsterduelist. But then again Ari's arguments are negated considering she runs an archetype that has an OP field spell that's basically a one-sided Skill Drain anyway.

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Post #33 by Saraak » Thu Feb 03, 2022 3:51 am

parhelia_0000 wrote:And while we're at it I would also like the admins and mods of DB to seriously consider implementing a system that automatically detects and deletes any custom cards that are deemed imbalanced (e.g. insta-win effects, "unaffected by all other card effects" that come at a cheap cost, meaning you have to work towards it) or have poor PSCT format. If we have to purge the custom cards in order to implement this, so be it. If people want custom card format to be 100% balanced once and for all, then we have to have a system that encourages fair play. Without it, it's impossible because there will always be people who make insta-win cards and then argue "It's custom cards, I cAn dO wHaTeVeR I wAnT~!" (Yes, CrystalMusic and Chaosprince, we're all looking at you both as examples.)


Not to be a downer, but while I agree with most of your points on the respect and balance side of things, this one is the most unrealistic feature to implement, unfortunately, mainly for two reasons.

The first reason is that the DB mods and the wider community alike probably don't care enough about balance in Custom Cards. The reputation is already there for being unbalanced and it would take A LOT of time to deal with that preconception.

The second reason is that it's unfeasible to make a script like that. I have a background as a 4th year IT student so I know how most systems like these might work. To summarize it, you want a text scraper script that looks at the submitted text and determines balance based on keywords such as Unaffected by all other cards or effects. This won't work, not even in the long run, and I want to go into why:

  • Inconsistency: You're already aware of how players aren't too keen or knowledgeable on following PSCT, so having a script take into account a player's awful grammar and effect structuring is already too much of a hassle for them to try. That would require machine learning to try and fix the grammar before it even begins to analyze the text; and once it does...

  • Balance: This is purely subjective and highly varies depending on the meta-game. Let's take into account a monster that's just unaffected by all card effects, but say that it's ATK/DEF are abysmally low with no method of rectifying it. No other features. Is this horribly unbalanced or not? By the system, it will say it is despite Kuriboh in the Battle Phase being viable out to it.

  • Time: As mentioned prior, balance is subjective to the metagame at the time. Raigeki is ban-worthy in GOAT but nowadays you can run it at 3. What the system determines as balanced at the time might end up becoming underpowered over time without constant tuning, which DB staff as a whole might see as a waste of time; and lastly...

  • Freedom: Players, no matter their inclination, will feel angered if their card is suddenly deleted or unable to be used because it was deemed 'unbalanced' by a system without any method of dispute or discourse. Even if their arguments are invalid, these concerns deserve to be heard lest ill-will build-up for the user. You'll be right in saying that it would purge the custom card community, but we're already at a low headcount, and making it any lower might as well kill the community outright. We want to take a smarter approach here.

However, I won't just call out the problems to this idea. I want to offer an alternative solution that may just be feasible for the DB staff. Let's take a look at a relatively healthy custom card community for a different game, Hearthstone. They have their own custom card site called Hearthcards that still has players posting and creating on it to this day. Allow me to list the features that have contributed to its success.

  • Ease of Creation. At the moment, DB can do the same, but it NEEDS a comprehensive guide on how PSCT works available to be viewed WHILE making the custom card(s). Unlike in Hearthstone, where they have keywords and a generally simplified reading experience, YuGiOh is much more in-depth and complicated. These resources NEED to be readily available for players to see as soon as they enter the custom card creation menu, and I'm certain that the community would willingly help to provide such resources if asked.

  • Rating System. Each card in Hearthcards has a rating out of 5 stars, and if we implement this, we will be able to see what the wider community thinks about the card as a whole. This includes the ability to comment on said cards upon clicking on them, which would allow feedback to be much more visible to readers and viewers of the cards. This also means that cards that get a low rating aren't seen on the front page, or at all, which means we can effectively prevent disturbing cards from impacting how others see the community. (just search Farfa, do it and you'll find a dude literally sucking on some COCKA). They currently have a rating limit of 3.5, so any cards that fail to reach any higher in the appointed time means the card isn't accepted onto the site. This can easily be adapted to accommodate for entire archetypes, and could even be changed to something akin to a poll with five options (Unbalanced, Strong, Mediocre, Weak, Unplayable); and lastly...

  • Viewing Experience. Upon viewing the cards on Hearthcards, you can see the entire card in a modal that also displays comments of card reviewers with their numerical rating (if on an account, which we could just use DB accounts for). You can also get a link to the original art source via the painter icon in the top right, but that's mostly optional. Point is, the community is limited to the forums and advertising on the DB main menu. It NEEDS an in-client method of showing all the custom cards. This is vital to attract members into the community. There are SO MANY good custom cards and archetypes, but the fact that nobody is able to see them without ACTIVELY looking for them is almost criminal.

These changes can be done as a new menu option (likely underneath Custom Cards) as `Custom Card Review` or something of the like. While it is a lot of work, the DB deck builder already has a way to show custom cards, so it wouldn't be too difficult to apply a tentative rating to all of them and wait until the wider community settles into how the system works. However, this system shouldn't outright DESTROY or DELETE cards. Instead, if the rating is too low, or if deemed unbalanced via poll, it will have a tag on it within the deck builder (similar to the limited/banned icons) that displays the numerical or poll rating, or even just a color like red/yellow/green to serve as an identifier.

I wholeheartedly believe that these features are much more viable – and realistically able – to be implemented than what was originally suggested, though it is not perfect and would likely need to be modified to fit the DB community much more. After all, unlike in Hearthcards, we can actually duel with our custom cards.
An aggregate of all my Custom Cards: https://forum.duelingbook.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=14930
I'm open to being criticized. I'm not a perfect human being who knows when or where he fucked up, but truly willing to learn.

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Post #34 by eyal282 » Mon Oct 03, 2022 3:47 am

Christen57 wrote:
Futuregamer wrote:God damn that is a lot of text. See, that's why we put half-naked anime girls at the top and bottom, keeps the audience engaged.


I'm working on the whole quality over quantity less-is-more thing. I've always had the habit of making some of my points unnecessarily long when writing these kinds of long posts. Sorry for that. When I was researching so many of these archetypes I was surprised at how many of these bad common mechanics there turned out to be and how many archetype's I'd be covering.

Anyway, taking them in order:

1)I don't see anything particularly incriminating with this. Sure, most of the ones we have right now haven't implemented their counter-play that well, but I am hopeful that this kind of design can work, as long as you can, to an extend, trigger off their effects on your own, without relying on the opponent. Personally for example I like artifacts, even if they are flawed.


That's the thing. Most of those archetypes can't reliably trigger off their respective common mechanics on their own. Artifacts, Reptilianne, and Meklords and whatnot need to either go -1 most of the time or depend heavily on the opponent to trigger their respective common mechanics.

5)Kaijus have a good reason for their limitations, namely so you can't tribute the opponent's entire field in one go by spamming kaijus, nor perform OTKs "too" easily. Agreed for the rest, it's pretty pointless.


The archetype can already OTK anyway with the help of Crusadias, so Kaiju's common mechanic could've been something less restrictive like "You can only Special Summon 1 "Gameciel, the Sea Turtle Kaiju(s)" per turn," "You can only Special Summon 1 "Radian, the Multidimensional Kaiju(s)" per turn," and so on, like with the Sky Striker link monsters.

7)The examples you list all work in different ways, so I'll just say I disagree with the vast majority of them. I will add another one to the list though, and that's Scholfas and their field spell, which does WAY too much and is basically required for the archetype to function at all. I don't think there's anything wrong with having a really good card that boosts an archetype as a whole, as long as the archetype can also stand on its own two feet without it.


Yeah. I already included Solfachords in this topic. They should've had a stronger common mechanic overall so they wouldn't need to rely so heavily on 1 card to begin with — a card that they can't even search. At least other pendulum archetypes can reliably pendulum summon with just 2 scales (a low scale and a high scale), but this archetype needs a total of 3 cards (2 scales along with it's field spell to change the pendulum scales) to reliably pendulum summon.


You can only Special Summon 1 "named kaiju" per turn has these implications:

1. You cannot summon Gameciel to opponent, and then summon it to your field.
2. You can tribute your opponent's field provided you drew different named Kaijus.
3. You can OTK by summoning different named kaijus.
4. Kaiju Slumber stuff.

You can only control 1 Kaiju has these implications:

1. You cannot tribute your opponent's field.
2. If you have a Kaiju, you're immune to Kaijus until your kaiju is removed.


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