Silence is Consent in Yugioh Just had Confirmation

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SHIFTY786
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Re: Silence is Consent in Yugioh Just had Confirmation

Post #281 by SHIFTY786 » Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:32 pm

itsmetristan wrote:
Christen57 wrote:
itsmetristan wrote:
This special battle phase will NOT occur, because Jowgen is on the field.


I apologize, but Shifty786 would still end up losing because Last Turn doesn't care if the special battle ends up happening or not, only which player has a monster remaining at the end phase, right?


Well if they searched a monster and attacked over Jowgen, they would deal enough damage to reduce the opponent's LP to 0. The judgment is an interesting point. I can't say for sure if this would have changed the outcome, because they may have used the last turn immediately after the first action in the main phase and not waited for a normal.

I'll be investigating further for the stalling issue. Let's drop the topic here.


Thank you.
Just to note last turn was activated at start of MP1 and this hypothetical situation on if solemn would b activated does not exist.
Please look into the stalling, I am high rank and would rather just play other games rather than stalling, especially when a judge is online.

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Post #282 by Christen57 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:09 am

SHIFTY786 wrote:Yeah exactly and whatever monster I would have searched would have been more than 200atk points. Lol


itsmetristan wrote:
Christen57 wrote:
itsmetristan wrote:
This special battle phase will NOT occur, because Jowgen is on the field.


I apologize, but Shifty786 would still end up losing because Last Turn doesn't care if the special battle ends up happening or not, only which player has a monster remaining at the end phase, right?


Well if they searched a monster and attacked over Jowgen, they would deal enough damage to reduce the opponent's LP to 0. The judgment is an interesting point. I can't say for sure if this would have changed the outcome, because they may have used the last turn immediately after the first action in the main phase and not waited for a normal.

I'll be investigating further for the stalling issue. Let's drop the topic here.


I'll drop it, but seeing how there's now a risk that a judge could get fired over this misunderstanding, I do feel that this should be cleared up and that we should have all the facts, at least before any further action against this judge or against Shifty786 is taken. It wouldn't feel right to me dropping this just yet when a judge's job is on the line.

While I wasn't entirely correct about how Last Turn worked, the fact remains that Shifty786 would've still lost, whether or not he would've searched with Sangan's effect and whether or not the special battle phase would've happened. Let me explain.

During Shifty786's standby phase, Shifty786 activates Mystical Space Typhoon, targeting his opponent's set card.

Said opponent chains Magic Jammer to negate the Mystical Space Typhoon. They can do this since they have the required card(s) to discard for Magic Jammer's cost.

Afterwards, Shifty786's opponent could simply activate their set Wall of Revealing Light and pay 7000 life points so that, unless Shifty786 somehow could get out a monster with over 7000 ATK, Shifty786 wouldn't be able to attack Jowgen. The opponent would be able to get away with paying this much since they had 8000 life points, so losing 7000 of it wouldn't be an issue.

Since Shifty786 now has no other spells/effects in his hand he could activate that turn, and wouldn't be able to attack, his only options would be to either normal summon/set something or end his turn. Whichever of these options Shifty786 chose, the opponent would still win.

If Shifty786 normal summons something, his opponent could shut that down with Solemn Judgment. Then, since Shifty786 has no options left, he would have to end his turn. Then, during the end phase, Shifty786's opponent could play Last Turn, get rid of everything except the Jowgen, and then the Jowgen will be the only monster remaining at the end of the turn, so Shifty786 loses due to the opponent being the only one controlling a monster.

If Shifty786 doesn't normal summon and instead just goes straight to the end phase, then, again, Shifty786's opponent could play Last Turn during that end phase, everything goes to the graveyard except for the Jowgen, no monster is special summoned because Jowgen's effect disallows that, no special battle phase happens because there was no special summon, and then because you can't normal summon in the end phase, Shifty786 won't be able to bring any more monsters out, so then the turn would end, and again, Shifty786 would lose due to his opponent being the only one controlling a monster.

If this is all true (how Shifty786's loss was inevitable and that Shifty786 was simply delaying the inevitable), then that would mean that Shifty786 really did maliciously stall, in that judge's eyes at least.

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Post #283 by itsmetristan » Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:17 am

Christen57 wrote:
SHIFTY786 wrote:Yeah exactly and whatever monster I would have searched would have been more than 200atk points. Lol


itsmetristan wrote:
Christen57 wrote:
I apologize, but Shifty786 would still end up losing because Last Turn doesn't care if the special battle ends up happening or not, only which player has a monster remaining at the end phase, right?


Well if they searched a monster and attacked over Jowgen, they would deal enough damage to reduce the opponent's LP to 0. The judgment is an interesting point. I can't say for sure if this would have changed the outcome, because they may have used the last turn immediately after the first action in the main phase and not waited for a normal.

I'll be investigating further for the stalling issue. Let's drop the topic here.


I'll drop it, but seeing how there's now a risk that a judge could get fired over this misunderstanding, I do feel that this should be cleared up and that we should have all the facts, at least before any further action against this judge or against Shifty786 is taken. It wouldn't feel right to me dropping this just yet when a judge's job is on the line.

While I wasn't entirely correct about how Last Turn worked, the fact remains that Shifty786 would've still lost, whether or not he would've searched with Sangan's effect and whether or not the special battle phase would've happened. Let me explain.

During Shifty786's standby phase, Shifty786 activates Mystical Space Typhoon, targeting his opponent's set card.

Said opponent chains Magic Jammer to negate the Mystical Space Typhoon. They can do this since they have the required card(s) to discard for Magic Jammer's cost.

Afterwards, Shifty786's opponent could simply activate their set Wall of Revealing Light and pay 7000 life points so that, unless Shifty786 somehow could get out a monster with over 7000 ATK, Shifty786 wouldn't be able to attack Jowgen. The opponent would be able to get away with paying this much since they had 8000 life points, so losing 7000 of it wouldn't be an issue.

Since Shifty786 now has no other spells/effects in his hand he could activate that turn, and wouldn't be able to attack, his only options would be to either normal summon/set something or end his turn. Whichever of these options Shifty786 chose, the opponent would still win.

If Shifty786 normal summons something, his opponent could shut that down with Solemn Judgment. Then, since Shifty786 has no options left, he would have to end his turn. Then, during the end phase, Shifty786's opponent could play Last Turn, get rid of everything except the Jowgen, and then the Jowgen will be the only monster remaining at the end of the turn, so Shifty786 loses due to the opponent being the only one controlling a monster.

If Shifty786 doesn't normal summon and instead just goes straight to the end phase, then, again, Shifty786's opponent could play Last Turn during that end phase, everything goes to the graveyard except for the Jowgen, no monster is special summoned because Jowgen's effect disallows that, no special battle phase happens because there was no special summon, and then because you can't normal summon in the end phase, Shifty786 won't be able to bring any more monsters out, so then the turn would end, and again, Shifty786 would lose due to his opponent being the only one controlling a monster.

If this is all true (how Shifty786's loss was inevitable and that Shifty786 was simply delaying the inevitable), then that would mean that Shifty786 really did maliciously stall, in that judge's eyes at least.


I appreciate the concern, though you don't need to mind that.

All of these possibilities are under the assumption that that player plays optimally. There is a chance they could just fire off last will immediately if the opponent had set a s/t or something. It's also worth mentioning that Shifty didn't know during the duel that they had a judgment set, so from their perspective in that moment they were perfectly in line to win. Either way, this conversation isn't relevant anymore. I ask that if discussion here continues, it is on something else.
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Post #284 by SHIFTY786 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:31 am

All the possibilities are irrelevant because the opponent activated last turn at the start of MP1.

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Post #285 by Christen57 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:48 am

itsmetristan wrote:
Christen57 wrote:
SHIFTY786 wrote:Yeah exactly and whatever monster I would have searched would have been more than 200atk points. Lol


itsmetristan wrote:
Well if they searched a monster and attacked over Jowgen, they would deal enough damage to reduce the opponent's LP to 0. The judgment is an interesting point. I can't say for sure if this would have changed the outcome, because they may have used the last turn immediately after the first action in the main phase and not waited for a normal.

I'll be investigating further for the stalling issue. Let's drop the topic here.


I'll drop it, but seeing how there's now a risk that a judge could get fired over this misunderstanding, I do feel that this should be cleared up and that we should have all the facts, at least before any further action against this judge or against Shifty786 is taken. It wouldn't feel right to me dropping this just yet when a judge's job is on the line.

While I wasn't entirely correct about how Last Turn worked, the fact remains that Shifty786 would've still lost, whether or not he would've searched with Sangan's effect and whether or not the special battle phase would've happened. Let me explain.

During Shifty786's standby phase, Shifty786 activates Mystical Space Typhoon, targeting his opponent's set card.

Said opponent chains Magic Jammer to negate the Mystical Space Typhoon. They can do this since they have the required card(s) to discard for Magic Jammer's cost.

Afterwards, Shifty786's opponent could simply activate their set Wall of Revealing Light and pay 7000 life points so that, unless Shifty786 somehow could get out a monster with over 7000 ATK, Shifty786 wouldn't be able to attack Jowgen. The opponent would be able to get away with paying this much since they had 8000 life points, so losing 7000 of it wouldn't be an issue.

Since Shifty786 now has no other spells/effects in his hand he could activate that turn, and wouldn't be able to attack, his only options would be to either normal summon/set something or end his turn. Whichever of these options Shifty786 chose, the opponent would still win.

If Shifty786 normal summons something, his opponent could shut that down with Solemn Judgment. Then, since Shifty786 has no options left, he would have to end his turn. Then, during the end phase, Shifty786's opponent could play Last Turn, get rid of everything except the Jowgen, and then the Jowgen will be the only monster remaining at the end of the turn, so Shifty786 loses due to the opponent being the only one controlling a monster.

If Shifty786 doesn't normal summon and instead just goes straight to the end phase, then, again, Shifty786's opponent could play Last Turn during that end phase, everything goes to the graveyard except for the Jowgen, no monster is special summoned because Jowgen's effect disallows that, no special battle phase happens because there was no special summon, and then because you can't normal summon in the end phase, Shifty786 won't be able to bring any more monsters out, so then the turn would end, and again, Shifty786 would lose due to his opponent being the only one controlling a monster.

If this is all true (how Shifty786's loss was inevitable and that Shifty786 was simply delaying the inevitable), then that would mean that Shifty786 really did maliciously stall, in that judge's eyes at least.


I appreciate the concern, though you don't need to mind that.

All of these possibilities are under the assumption that that player plays optimally. There is a chance they could just fire off last will immediately if the opponent had set a s/t or something. It's also worth mentioning that Shifty didn't know during the duel that they had a judgment set, so from their perspective in that moment they were perfectly in line to win. Either way, this conversation isn't relevant anymore. I ask that if discussion here continues, it is on something else.


There's no need for anymore discussion at all in this thread in my opinion. It's gone on long enough, and the links, replays, and arguments Sound4 presented in it have been addressed, so you should lock this thread.

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Post #286 by Genexwrecker » Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:27 am

SHIFTY786 wrote:Why would I stall when I won the match lol.
Why would I stall when I beat kids like that for breakfast.
Why would i stall when a judge is present.
Why would i stall when i won the match.
Why would i stall when I've had 1000's of games and never stalled in my life.

Serious you need to stop, you are embarassing yourself for the sake of defending your friend.
Judges should have a good sense of being fair and unbiased. Clearly this is not the case here .

Im merely stating the reason the judge ruled the way they did. Ir trying to claim the freeze was for lack of knowledge but that is not the case. At any rate wait for us to handle the appeal before you have more negative criticisms. You stated your points. As silly as the mst thing is the main issue would be determining if you were stalling or not. The judge in game determined that so we will determine what we think the ruling should be when we review the appeal. You were not frozen by biased power corruption stop throwing that around so loosely. You will be given a fair appeal.
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Post #287 by Sound4 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:14 pm

Renji Asuka wrote:
itsmetristan wrote:
Sound4 wrote:Then reply to my posts regarding judges which I have provided links to support my claims.


Which posts? I didn't read the entirety of this thread because it's so long. What other situations are you talking about?

This is what he does, he only argues in circles despite having everything addressed.

I am simply making a point.

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Post #288 by Sound4 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:21 pm

itsmetristan wrote:
Sound4 wrote::?:
itsmetristan wrote:
Which posts? I didn't read the entirety of this thread because it's so long. What other situations are you talking about?

The "what does this mean" thread on the ask me anything section


After a quick view, the issue there seems to have been that you weren't told what action was taken. That's the point of the answer being vague like that. You were informed that your report was viewed and handled appropriately. You aren't allowed to know any more than that.

The 1st per doesn't really prove wrong any of my points. The 2nd part "You were informed that your report was viewed and handled appropriately. You aren't allowed to know any more than that."
This is stupid at this point as now you have no way of knowing if whether anything was handled or not. Tell me one sign that anything was handled?

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Post #289 by Sound4 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:24 pm

Genexwrecker wrote:
SHIFTY786 wrote:Why would I stall when I won the match lol.
Why would I stall when I beat kids like that for breakfast.
Why would i stall when a judge is present.
Why would i stall when i won the match.
Why would i stall when I've had 1000's of games and never stalled in my life.

Serious you need to stop, you are embarassing yourself for the sake of defending your friend.
Judges should have a good sense of being fair and unbiased. Clearly this is not the case here .

Im merely stating the reason the judge ruled the way they did. Ir trying to claim the freeze was for lack of knowledge but that is not the case. At any rate wait for us to handle the appeal before you have more negative criticisms. You stated your points. As silly as the mst thing is the main issue would be determining if you were stalling or not. The judge in game determined that so we will determine what we think the ruling should be when we review the appeal. You were not frozen by biased power corruption stop throwing that around so loosely. You will be given a fair appeal.

With information you had you couldn't say whether he was stalling or not. You don't have enough information to make that judge call at best another judge should have came to see their opinion on this.

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Post #290 by Sound4 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:25 pm

Christen57 wrote:
itsmetristan wrote:
Christen57 wrote:


I'll drop it, but seeing how there's now a risk that a judge could get fired over this misunderstanding, I do feel that this should be cleared up and that we should have all the facts, at least before any further action against this judge or against Shifty786 is taken. It wouldn't feel right to me dropping this just yet when a judge's job is on the line.

While I wasn't entirely correct about how Last Turn worked, the fact remains that Shifty786 would've still lost, whether or not he would've searched with Sangan's effect and whether or not the special battle phase would've happened. Let me explain.

During Shifty786's standby phase, Shifty786 activates Mystical Space Typhoon, targeting his opponent's set card.

Said opponent chains Magic Jammer to negate the Mystical Space Typhoon. They can do this since they have the required card(s) to discard for Magic Jammer's cost.

Afterwards, Shifty786's opponent could simply activate their set Wall of Revealing Light and pay 7000 life points so that, unless Shifty786 somehow could get out a monster with over 7000 ATK, Shifty786 wouldn't be able to attack Jowgen. The opponent would be able to get away with paying this much since they had 8000 life points, so losing 7000 of it wouldn't be an issue.

Since Shifty786 now has no other spells/effects in his hand he could activate that turn, and wouldn't be able to attack, his only options would be to either normal summon/set something or end his turn. Whichever of these options Shifty786 chose, the opponent would still win.

If Shifty786 normal summons something, his opponent could shut that down with Solemn Judgment. Then, since Shifty786 has no options left, he would have to end his turn. Then, during the end phase, Shifty786's opponent could play Last Turn, get rid of everything except the Jowgen, and then the Jowgen will be the only monster remaining at the end of the turn, so Shifty786 loses due to the opponent being the only one controlling a monster.

If Shifty786 doesn't normal summon and instead just goes straight to the end phase, then, again, Shifty786's opponent could play Last Turn during that end phase, everything goes to the graveyard except for the Jowgen, no monster is special summoned because Jowgen's effect disallows that, no special battle phase happens because there was no special summon, and then because you can't normal summon in the end phase, Shifty786 won't be able to bring any more monsters out, so then the turn would end, and again, Shifty786 would lose due to his opponent being the only one controlling a monster.

If this is all true (how Shifty786's loss was inevitable and that Shifty786 was simply delaying the inevitable), then that would mean that Shifty786 really did maliciously stall, in that judge's eyes at least.


I appreciate the concern, though you don't need to mind that.

All of these possibilities are under the assumption that that player plays optimally. There is a chance they could just fire off last will immediately if the opponent had set a s/t or something. It's also worth mentioning that Shifty didn't know during the duel that they had a judgment set, so from their perspective in that moment they were perfectly in line to win. Either way, this conversation isn't relevant anymore. I ask that if discussion here continues, it is on something else.


There's no need for anymore discussion at all in this thread in my opinion. It's gone on long enough, and the links, replays, and arguments Sound4 presented in it have been addressed, so you should lock this thread.

I am simply making a point as I have provided links to support my claims.

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Post #291 by itsmetristan » Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:07 pm

Sound4 wrote:
itsmetristan wrote:
Sound4 wrote::?:
The "what does this mean" thread on the ask me anything section


After a quick view, the issue there seems to have been that you weren't told what action was taken. That's the point of the answer being vague like that. You were informed that your report was viewed and handled appropriately. You aren't allowed to know any more than that.

The 1st per doesn't really prove wrong any of my points. The 2nd part "You were informed that your report was viewed and handled appropriately. You aren't allowed to know any more than that."
This is stupid at this point as now you have no way of knowing if whether anything was handled or not. Tell me one sign that anything was handled?

The fact that you're being told that the matter has been handled appropriately means that it was handled. If no action is being taken/your report is denied, you would be told. You are told whether your report was accepted or denied. You are NOT told what specific action has been taken in the event that it is accepted
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Post #292 by itsmetristan » Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:08 pm

Sound4 wrote:
Genexwrecker wrote:
SHIFTY786 wrote:Why would I stall when I won the match lol.
Why would I stall when I beat kids like that for breakfast.
Why would i stall when a judge is present.
Why would i stall when i won the match.
Why would i stall when I've had 1000's of games and never stalled in my life.

Serious you need to stop, you are embarassing yourself for the sake of defending your friend.
Judges should have a good sense of being fair and unbiased. Clearly this is not the case here .

Im merely stating the reason the judge ruled the way they did. Ir trying to claim the freeze was for lack of knowledge but that is not the case. At any rate wait for us to handle the appeal before you have more negative criticisms. You stated your points. As silly as the mst thing is the main issue would be determining if you were stalling or not. The judge in game determined that so we will determine what we think the ruling should be when we review the appeal. You were not frozen by biased power corruption stop throwing that around so loosely. You will be given a fair appeal.

With information you had you couldn't say whether he was stalling or not. You don't have enough information to make that judge call at best another judge should have came to see their opinion on this.

This entire situation was solved. There is absolutely no point in bringing it up again.
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Post #293 by itsmetristan » Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:10 pm

Sound4 wrote:
Christen57 wrote:
itsmetristan wrote:
I appreciate the concern, though you don't need to mind that.

All of these possibilities are under the assumption that that player plays optimally. There is a chance they could just fire off last will immediately if the opponent had set a s/t or something. It's also worth mentioning that Shifty didn't know during the duel that they had a judgment set, so from their perspective in that moment they were perfectly in line to win. Either way, this conversation isn't relevant anymore. I ask that if discussion here continues, it is on something else.


There's no need for anymore discussion at all in this thread in my opinion. It's gone on long enough, and the links, replays, and arguments Sound4 presented in it have been addressed, so you should lock this thread.

I am simply making a point as I have provided links to support my claims.

None of your links support your claim. The only thing that actually had something going for it here was Shifty's freeze. All of your points have been proven false or explained why it is the way it is.
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Post #294 by greg503 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:24 pm

Thank you, can this thread be closed now?
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Post #295 by Sound4 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:21 am

greg503 wrote:Thank you, can this thread be closed now?

All I was doing was simply replying to other people's posts which is very normal in a thread.

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Post #296 by Sound4 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:25 am

itsmetristan wrote:
Sound4 wrote:
Christen57 wrote:
There's no need for anymore discussion at all in this thread in my opinion. It's gone on long enough, and the links, replays, and arguments Sound4 presented in it have been addressed, so you should lock this thread.

I am simply making a point as I have provided links to support my claims.

None of your links support your claim. The only thing that actually had something going for it here was Shifty's freeze. All of your points have been proven false or explained why it is the way it is.

No one else has provided any links while I have provided official websites to support my claims. How can you prove wrong something when you have nothing to back it up?

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Post #297 by Sound4 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:27 am

itsmetristan wrote:
Sound4 wrote:
itsmetristan wrote:
After a quick view, the issue there seems to have been that you weren't told what action was taken. That's the point of the answer being vague like that. You were informed that your report was viewed and handled appropriately. You aren't allowed to know any more than that.

The 1st per doesn't really prove wrong any of my points. The 2nd part "You were informed that your report was viewed and handled appropriately. You aren't allowed to know any more than that."
This is stupid at this point as now you have no way of knowing if whether anything was handled or not. Tell me one sign that anything was handled?

The fact that you're being told that the matter has been handled appropriately means that it was handled. If no action is being taken/your report is denied, you would be told. You are told whether your report was accepted or denied. You are NOT told what specific action has been taken in the event that it is accepted

That is not confirmation that it was handled. I saw nothing change after my report.

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Post #298 by Renji Asuka » Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:31 am

Sound4 wrote:
itsmetristan wrote:
Sound4 wrote:I am simply making a point as I have provided links to support my claims.

None of your links support your claim. The only thing that actually had something going for it here was Shifty's freeze. All of your points have been proven false or explained why it is the way it is.

No one else has provided any links while I have provided official websites to support my claims. How can you prove wrong something when you have nothing to back it up?

And you were told why you were wrong. Take the L
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Post #299 by Sound4 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 3:06 pm

Renji Asuka wrote:
Sound4 wrote:
itsmetristan wrote:None of your links support your claim. The only thing that actually had something going for it here was Shifty's freeze. All of your points have been proven false or explained why it is the way it is.

No one else has provided any links while I have provided official websites to support my claims. How can you prove wrong something when you have nothing to back it up?

And you were told why you were wrong. Take the L

Then I provided links to support my claims.

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Post #300 by Renji Asuka » Wed Nov 24, 2021 3:08 pm

Sound4 wrote:
Renji Asuka wrote:
Sound4 wrote:No one else has provided any links while I have provided official websites to support my claims. How can you prove wrong something when you have nothing to back it up?

And you were told why you were wrong. Take the L

Then I provided links to support my claims.

And you're still wrong. Take the L.
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