Communication and YOU

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Cromat
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Re: Communication and YOU

Post #61 by Cromat » Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:15 pm

Genexwrecker wrote:https://www.duelingbook.com/log?id=40449475

well you should always be paying attention. yes they should have made you send the card before continuing but it did not hinder or affect anything here when noticed putting it in the gy would have fixed the problem and did not require a 100 word exchange with the opponent over it especially when it was mainly your fault to begin with. I advise paying much better attention to the games and learning when to debate an issue and when not to. if that was game you would be frozen right now. I'm still deciding wether or not i need to give penalties here.


https://www.duelingbook.com/replay?id=40513853
So.. This time; had I made the debate correct time?
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Sound4
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Post #62 by Sound4 » Fri Jul 29, 2022 8:30 pm

GayNProud wrote:Genewrecker: This is so ironic coming from you after how you handled the last appeal you took for me. I am working on a very elaborate and detailed forum thread with evidence. We can have that discussion there.

FYI: the opponent ended up repeating the same abusive gameplay related and harassment related behaviors as well, including calling me a faggot. Will be reporting that as abuse as well once I have my forum post ready to go simulatenously. But just know that your failure as a "judge" to take action did not deter the player from their behaviors, and led to their escalation.

Stay tuned! It is going to be the most discussed forum post DB Forums have seen in a while. We will have a dialogue about topics such as:

1. Equitable and consistent application of rules
2. Strictness of rules
3. Vagueness of current rules and their listed examples
4. Judges' lack of common sense and use of proper "judgement"
5. Judges' corruption and bias against certain decks

So much for that happening.

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Post #63 by greg503 » Fri Jul 29, 2022 11:42 pm

Sound4 wrote:
GayNProud wrote:Genewrecker: This is so ironic coming from you after how you handled the last appeal you took for me. I am working on a very elaborate and detailed forum thread with evidence. We can have that discussion there.

FYI: the opponent ended up repeating the same abusive gameplay related and harassment related behaviors as well, including calling me a faggot. Will be reporting that as abuse as well once I have my forum post ready to go simulatenously. But just know that your failure as a "judge" to take action did not deter the player from their behaviors, and led to their escalation.

Stay tuned! It is going to be the most discussed forum post DB Forums have seen in a while. We will have a dialogue about topics such as:

1. Equitable and consistent application of rules
2. Strictness of rules
3. Vagueness of current rules and their listed examples
4. Judges' lack of common sense and use of proper "judgement"
5. Judges' corruption and bias against certain decks

So much for that happening.

Almost like those listed points are false or non-issues
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Cromat
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Post #64 by Cromat » Tue Feb 21, 2023 12:12 am

If your opponent plays the cards, and continues without waiting for the resolutions to be completed, and does not explain anything to you; What should our attitude be in such a situation?

For example, they played "
Upstart Goblin" and played other cards and summoned 10's of monsters, then end their turn without waiting for you to gain 1000 LP, and they didn't tell you that you should also gain 1000 LP. Is this 100% your fault or your opponent?

If Judge arrives there: Which player is responsible for this situation?




Let me know your thoughts, and then I'll give you another example.
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Post #65 by Christen57 » Tue Feb 21, 2023 1:06 am

Cromat wrote:If your opponent plays the cards, and continues without waiting for the resolutions to be completed, and does not explain anything to you; What should our attitude be in such a situation?

For example, they played "
Upstart Goblin" and played other cards and summoned 10's of monsters, then end their turn without waiting for you to gain 1000 LP, and they didn't tell you that you should also gain 1000 LP. Is this 100% your fault or your opponent?

If Judge arrives there: Which player is responsible for this situation?




Let me know your thoughts, and then I'll give you another example.


If it's something trivial like Upstart Goblin's 1000 LP, I'm sure you could just gain that LP and continue.

Cromat
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Post #66 by Cromat » Tue Feb 21, 2023 1:42 am

I have given a very simple example to make it easy for you to understand. What if it's not something trivial? So, according to you: "You're saying as in such cases the point is about issue(s)'s being trivial or not?"

When "Pot of Extravagance" activated they banished 5 cards instead of 6 and you didn't say it to your opponent and also they have only 1 card in their Extra Deck after they banished 5 cards face-down and game continued like that. Then you Summoned a monster (let's named that card's type as Synchro) and they activated "Ultimate Slayer" and that moment they've a Synchro Monster in your Extra Deck, they send that Synchro Monster to their GY and shuffled your monster into Deck, but that card shouldn't be at in their Extra Deck at that moment because of their "Pot of Extravagance".

So at the example that situation isn't trivial, isn't? But hadn't gained 1000 LP is trivial?
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Post #67 by greg503 » Tue Feb 21, 2023 2:36 am

Cromat wrote:I have given a very simple example to make it easy for you to understand. What if it's not something trivial? So, according to you: "You're saying as in such cases the point is about issue(s)'s being trivial or not?"

When "Pot of Extravagance" activated they banished 5 cards instead of 6 and you didn't say it to your opponent and also they have only 1 card in their Extra Deck after they banished 5 cards face-down and game continued like that. Then you Summoned a monster (let's named that card's type as Synchro) and they activated "Ultimate Slayer" and that moment they've a Synchro Monster in your Extra Deck, they send that Synchro Monster to their GY and shuffled your monster into Deck, but that card shouldn't be at in their Extra Deck at that moment because of their "Pot of Extravagance".

So at the example that situation isn't trivial, isn't? But hadn't gained 1000 LP is trivial?

The deal is how repairable the gamestate is, correcting LP off of Upstart Goblin is easy, but if they use the ED after incorrectly resolving Extrav, then you probably should get a judge ruling. Remember that accepted gamestates is an option.
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Post #68 by MarshieDemon » Sun Feb 26, 2023 9:42 pm

Technically:

By not gaining 1000 LP, we've created an illegal gamestate. Assuming a Judge gets called because the players could not reach a resolution themselves, the Judge would investigate the situation as they would any other. Which player is responsible? Clearly, both are. Why did the player continue without waiting for their opponent to gain 1000 LP? Why did the opponent not gain the 1000 LP and allow the game to continue? Is there an accusation of malicious cheating that we need to consider?

Assuming the answers to these questions do not indicate any malice was involved, the next step for the Judge would be to determine how to repair the gamestate. Do we have to rewind the whole gamestate back because the extra 1000 LP matters? Would both players still have made the same actions up to this point regardless of the extra 1000 LP? Can we just correct the LP and move on? Obviously, if neither player changes their actions, there's no point in rewinding the gamestate all the way back.

And if we determine that the LP difference would have mattered, is it even possible to rewind the gamestate that far back? Do we need to consider this an irreparable gamestate, and follow the policies regarding that?

Tl;dr there's no simple answer. The Judge will need to perform an investigation and make a decision on how to best proceed.
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Sound4
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Post #69 by Sound4 » Thu Jul 20, 2023 3:46 pm

What if a player is insulting someone else and not giving the ok for the other player to continue. Do you continue? If not why?

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Post #70 by Renji Asuka » Thu Jul 20, 2023 4:39 pm

Sound4 wrote:What if a player is insulting someone else and not giving the ok for the other player to continue. Do you continue? If not why?

This has already been answered...
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Post #71 by Sound4 » Thu Jul 20, 2023 6:35 pm

Renji Asuka wrote:
Sound4 wrote:What if a player is insulting someone else and not giving the ok for the other player to continue. Do you continue? If not why?

This has already been answered...

Has it? Where has it been answered?

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Post #72 by greg503 » Fri Jul 21, 2023 2:15 am

Sound4 wrote:
Renji Asuka wrote:
Sound4 wrote:What if a player is insulting someone else and not giving the ok for the other player to continue. Do you continue? If not why?

This has already been answered...

Has it? Where has it been answered?

Probably in this very thread, you should take a few minutes to read it through
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Post #73 by Renji Asuka » Fri Jul 21, 2023 2:23 am

greg503 wrote:
Sound4 wrote:
Renji Asuka wrote:This has already been answered...

Has it? Where has it been answered?

Probably in this very thread, you should take a few minutes to read it through

Not counting the fact that it's been stated in threads that sparked this one and even Genexwrecker commented.

And sound4 participated in those threads too.
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Genexwrecker
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Post #74 by Genexwrecker » Fri Jul 21, 2023 3:01 am

Sound4 wrote:What if a player is insulting someone else and not giving the ok for the other player to continue. Do you continue? If not why?

Considering you cannot play ranked constantly re-asking these already answered questions has no purpose for you.
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Post #75 by Christen57 » Mon Aug 07, 2023 1:31 pm

Genexwrecker wrote:
Sound4 wrote:What if a player is insulting someone else and not giving the ok for the other player to continue. Do you continue? If not why?

Considering you cannot play ranked


Knew this would happen sooner or later with how he's been behaving in rated this past year.

What was it that finally costed him his right to play in ranked? Continued believing that silence is always consent?

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Post #76 by Cromat » Sun Sep 10, 2023 6:59 pm

Hello,

Today, I encountered a player which made an illegal Summon, I think they were a smurf account of a player which has a high rating point at DuelingBook. I told them that you cannot. But they did not listen to me and continued to play. When I called Judge to this, they offered to rewound the game and proceed, after Judge arrived before the Duel is over Judge can give me warning.. Is this possible at here? So, if we consider that I did cheat after that opponent called a Judge for cheating, I can make a deal with my opponent and continue the Duel after rewound with correct gamestate, and when Judge arrived they can freeze me for I cheated, should not the other player either should be frozen for make a such deal with their opponent?


During the Duel; https://www.duelingbook.com/replay?id=168328-52984179
My opponent Link Summoned of "Decode Talker Heatsoul" by using as Link Material of "Rescue-ACE Preventer" and "Salamangreat Sunlight Wolf". After that, they used the effect of the Link Monster just Summoned and drew a card, then they put a card from their hand to Deck back.
Those are have not different Attributes and that non-Link Effect Monster is not a Cyberse-Type monster. But my opponent still insist to continue to game, because they say they'll take only warning so, let the game continue to me.
But I did not proceed and wanted to wait for a Judge, because I've a game related issue here I think. But opponent says only issue at here is still their drew card by their Link-3 Link Monster..




Or are my opponent right on this point?
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Post #77 by Renji Asuka » Mon Sep 11, 2023 1:59 am

Your communication skills were terrible.

Your opponent only thought the card that was drawn was the problem, it wasn't. The opponent should had returned to the gamestate prior to heatsoul, but you didn't explain that very well.
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Cromat
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Post #78 by Cromat » Mon Sep 11, 2023 11:35 am

For better or worse.. After all, I explained it. Whether they take what I say into consideration or not is their problem. It seemed to me you did not review of that game's log very well. (I have already told them at [5:54], [6:32], [16:47].) Just as how you choose to disparage the players in every comment, they also chose not to listen to me. You can't tell me you didn't explain the game-related issue.

But you can answer this question; the players can agree among themselves and rewind the game to reach the previous possible correct game state and continue the game, and when the Judge comes, can they (Judge) apply to penalty to them for the issue which is occurred lastly at game related gamestate? Tell me whether you agree or not.
Last edited by Cromat on Mon Sep 11, 2023 11:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Renji Asuka
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Post #79 by Renji Asuka » Mon Sep 11, 2023 11:38 am

Cromat wrote:For better or worse.. After all, I explained it. Whether they take what I say into consideration or not is their problem. It seemed to me you did not review of that game's log very well. (I have already told them at [5:54], [6:32], [16:47].) Just as how you choose to disparage the players in every comment, they also chose not to listen to me. You can't tell me you didn't explain the game-related issue.

But you can answer this question; the players can agree among themselves and rewind the game to reach the previous possible correct game state and continue the game, and when the Judge comes, can they apply to penalty to them for the issue related to this occured last game-related issue? Tell me whether you agree or not.

I have reviewed it, at no point did you tell your opponent to return Heatsoul back to the extra deck.
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Cromat
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Post #80 by Cromat » Mon Sep 11, 2023 11:50 am

Renji Asuka wrote:I have reviewed it, at no point did you tell your opponent to return Heatsoul back to the extra deck.


I never said to my opponent that return that Link Monster to your Extra Deck back, you're right about it. But they know rules very well and they know how to rewind game for reach the previous correct gamestate. Therefore I didn't need to tell them what they should or must, I told them what they cannot or can, and like you, they think they can do whatever they want. Because they're aware that they would take only warning. I think they know the rules well enough to interfere with whether I should take serious of rules or not regarding my rating points into account.
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