Why 11,350 Cards? How do I make sense of it?

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xXJack_AtlasXx
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Re: Why 11,350 Cards? How do I make sense of it?

Post #21 by xXJack_AtlasXx » Sun Aug 29, 2021 2:09 pm

greg503 wrote:
xXJack_AtlasXx wrote:
robinatk wrote:
Just to constantly remind you about what cards are legal in Worlds banlist until you know the correct answer and stop spreading missinformation.
And to refute your accusations of the TCG player base when you talk out your rear end.

So are you saying that the shoe fits you? All I'm getting from your posts is that you're triggered.

Why would the let region exclusive cards in Worlds?

They don't which is why I'm confused by what he's saying.

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Post #22 by robinatk » Sun Aug 29, 2021 4:57 pm

greg503 wrote:
xXJack_AtlasXx wrote:
robinatk wrote:
Just to constantly remind you about what cards are legal in Worlds banlist until you know the correct answer and stop spreading missinformation.
And to refute your accusations of the TCG player base when you talk out your rear end.

So are you saying that the shoe fits you? All I'm getting from your posts is that you're triggered.

Why would the let region exclusive cards in Worlds?


They don't, OP just doesn't know that

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Post #23 by greg503 » Mon Aug 30, 2021 3:01 pm

xXJack_AtlasXx wrote:
greg503 wrote:
xXJack_AtlasXx wrote:So are you saying that the shoe fits you? All I'm getting from your posts is that you're triggered.

Why would the let region exclusive cards in Worlds?

They don't which is why I'm confused by what he's saying.

YOU acted like they did
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Post #24 by Renji Asuka » Mon Aug 30, 2021 4:34 pm

Just saying, there's a lot of vanilla monsters that are OCG only that never get used.
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Post #25 by greg503 » Mon Aug 30, 2021 8:07 pm

#ImportAirEater
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Post #26 by xXJack_AtlasXx » Mon Aug 30, 2021 10:11 pm

greg503 wrote:
xXJack_AtlasXx wrote:
greg503 wrote:Why would the let region exclusive cards in Worlds?

They don't which is why I'm confused by what he's saying.

YOU acted like they did

Maybe that's what you assumed I said, but in reality I said nothing of the sort.

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Post #27 by greg503 » Mon Aug 30, 2021 10:23 pm

xXJack_AtlasXx wrote:
greg503 wrote:Last I checked, Worlds is restricted to cards available in both formats, the combined banlist of both formats, and a few more stall cards like Rainbow Life. Neither TCG players, nor OCG players would have an advantage.

Here's a link from the Official Yu-Gi-Oh! site which makes it clear that only the Forbidden and Limited List is changed, not the cards available for play by both sides:

World Championship Celebration 2019 Forbidden & Limited Lists
For North, Central, and South American Territories

https://www.yugioh-card.com/en/events/specialevents/WC_OTS_Celebration_FL_List.html

This official announcement from Konami means that OCG cards will be played at world's. Therefore if you don't keep up with the trends there as a TCG player you'll be significantly behind because of lack of information and practice with said cards.

This is where you said that "only the Forbidden and Limited List is changed, not the cards available for play by both sides."
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Post #28 by greg503 » Mon Aug 30, 2021 10:27 pm

https://www.yugioh-card.com/en/events/s ... _FAQs.html
I dug into the FAQs and discovered that "An exception has been made for this event since the 2019 Yu-Gi-Oh! World Championship competitors will be able to use both OCG and TCG cards in their Decks" meaning that this is true for 2019. We'd have to go a bit further to see if things actually changed.
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Post #29 by xXJack_AtlasXx » Tue Aug 31, 2021 4:20 pm

greg503 wrote:https://www.yugioh-card.com/en/events/s ... _FAQs.html
I dug into the FAQs and discovered that "An exception has been made for this event since the 2019 Yu-Gi-Oh! World Championship competitors will be able to use both OCG and TCG cards in their Decks" meaning that this is true for 2019. We'd have to go a bit further to see if things actually changed.

Well if you have been playing since the International release of Yu-Gi-Oh! since around 2002 then you would know that prior to Konami officially making the rules or hosting tournaments everything was done by Upper Deck Entertainment (UDE) and this was prior to the first Forbidden & Limited list which wouldn't come out until around 2004. From that time until 2008 Yu-Gi-Oh! was under the control of UDE before being taken over by Konami, specifically Konami Digital Entertinment (KDE); so from 2004 OCG and TCG had the same Forbidden & Limited lists until 2013. This means that the OCG and TCG have had separate ban lists for the past 8 Years.

Again from the history of the game and using common sense it doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that a difference in card access and availability would lead to a gap of knowledge and experience between OCG and TCG players. Therefore for worlds to successfully have a fair duel = fair play occur there would be a need to make a special ban list for such a special event, and it would only make sense to exclude promotional or hard to obtain cards which aren't available in all regions of players on both sides.

Anyways I am not sure what point you wish to make with regards to what you've been posting...
Last edited by xXJack_AtlasXx on Wed Sep 01, 2021 6:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post #30 by xXJack_AtlasXx » Tue Aug 31, 2021 4:34 pm

greg503 wrote:
xXJack_AtlasXx wrote:
greg503 wrote:Last I checked, Worlds is restricted to cards available in both formats, the combined banlist of both formats, and a few more stall cards like Rainbow Life. Neither TCG players, nor OCG players would have an advantage.

Here's a link from the Official Yu-Gi-Oh! site which makes it clear that only the Forbidden and Limited List is changed, not the cards available for play by both sides:

World Championship Celebration 2019 Forbidden & Limited Lists
For North, Central, and South American Territories

https://www.yugioh-card.com/en/events/specialevents/WC_OTS_Celebration_FL_List.html

This official announcement from Konami means that OCG cards will be played at world's. Therefore if you don't keep up with the trends there as a TCG player you'll be significantly behind because of lack of information and practice with said cards.

This is where you said that "only the Forbidden and Limited List is changed, not the cards available for play by both sides."

And I only made the point that OCG and TCG cards would be playable at worlds. I never said anything about promotional cards: this is something you assumed. My repsonse to you was simply to point out that OCG wouldn't ban their own cards just because TCG had never had them. Afterall if TCG players wanted to test the OCG cards out prior to their official release in their respective countries they could simply get the translation of the card and make a proxy to play with, which many players have done since the game has been around.

Kazuki Takhashi created Yu-Gi-Oh! around 1995 and the card game was officially out in Japan around 1999. Seeing that TCG received the game in 2002 and the first Yu-Gi-Oh! World Championship was held around 2003 shows that it didn't really take much time for TCG players to catch on or compete. I personally would like to see the scales in the Yu-Gi-Oh! World Championship tilt more in favor of TCG, but it can't be helped if TCG players have their attention divided and elsewhere.

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Post #31 by BoomerDuels » Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:08 am

xXJack_AtlasXx wrote:In my previous post Total Number of Legal OCG and TCG Cards in Yu-Gi-Oh! Master Duel (As of 08/21/2021) I stated the number of playable cards:

Total Number of Yu-Gi-Oh! cards in the World:
11,350 Cards

Total Number of OCG Cards:
7,508 Monster Cards
2,164 Spell Cards
1,678 Trap Cards
11,350 Cards


Total Number of TCG Cards:
7,223 Monster Cards
2,119 Spell Cards
1,667 Traps Cards
11,009 Cards


While this is great knowledge why does it matter to the Duelist to know such numbers? And how does one even translate such knowledge to be understood and applied in real scenarios of the game, and deck building? You need to know what you're working with and then be able to break down the whole into parts; from there you understand how the parts work alone and together; from here you can then build the natural systems these parts make up or build an original system which applies the same guiding principles of systems.

For starters these numbers at a glance let us know that a majority of the wins will be decided by monsters. And these wins come in one of four ways which I will list from common to super rare:

1) Reduce Opponent's Life Points to Zero (Common).
2) Alternate Win-Condition (Uncommon).
3) Opponent unable to Draw Cards (Rare).
4) Opponent unable to Play Cards (Super Rare).


Therefore your deck must be able to reduce your Opponent's Life Points to 0 should the other three win conditions not be possible to carry out. And to do this effectively you need a large amount of options to choose from as building your Deck may be likened to building a house:

Ceiling (Trap Cards)
Walls (Spell Cards)
Foundation (Monster Cards)
Chief Cornerstone (Key Monster Card)


Before moving further let us look at the ratios and the relationship the numbers share with one another to get a basic idea of what they're communicating:

11,009 Cards ÷ 11,350 Cards = 97% Percent
11,350 Cards - 11, 009 Cards = 341 Card Difference
341 Cards ÷ 11,350 Cards = 3% Percent


We see that the OCG is playing with just 3% Percent more Cards than we are and therefore would be wise to study the trends which arise there. This is crucial if one is to become the "King of Games" for one must win the World Championship to truly gain that title, for at this event the cards playable will be in favor of the OCG.

Let us now look at the Monster, Spell, and Trap Card ratio among both formats:

OCG (Original Card Game)
7,508 Monster Cards ÷ 11,350 Cards = 66% Percent
2,164 Spell Cards ÷ 11,350 Cards = 19% Percent
1,678 Trap Cards ÷ 11,350 Cards = 15% Percent


TCG (Trading Card Game)
7,223 Monster Cards ÷ 11,009 Cards = 66%
2,119 Spell Cards ÷ 11,009 Cards = 19% Percent
1,667 Trap Cards ÷ 11,009 Cards = 15% Percent


Your Decks construction is heavily dependent on the integrity of you Key Monster Card and the Monster Cards as they will hold up the rest of your Deck, and be doing a majority of the work. Therefore Your Deck should always be ready to reduce your Opponent's Life Points to 0 in the event that your other three avenues to victory are unavailable, and in the most pressing of circumstances you must be able to bring the game to a draw. If none of these objectives can be achieved then defeat will be your result. Since both players begin with 8,000 Life Points you must ensure that your Deck can reduce them in one of eight ways:

1) Inflict 8,000 Damage 1 time.
2) Inflict 4,000 Damage 2 times.
3) Inflict 2,000 Damage 4 times.
4) Inflict 1,000 Damage 8 times.
5) Inflict 800 Damage 10 times.
6) Inflict 400 Damage 20 times.
7) Inflict 200 Damage 40 times.
8) Inflict 100 Damage 80 times.


As can be clearly seen the greater the damage you can Inflict the quicker the game will go and the less damage you can Inflict the slower the game will go. Yet on both extreme ends it becomes more difficult to win the higher or lower you go on the scale as you can only inflict damage in two ways:

1) Battle Damage.
2) Effect Damage.


Each of these ways of inflicting damage have three methods by which they may be accomplished:

Battle Damage:
1) Direct Attack.
2) Battle Damage.
3) Direct Damage.


Effect Damage:
1) Monster Card Effect
2) Spell Card Effect
3) Trap Card Effect


Do not be foolish in relying on only one method to Inflict damage to your Opponent's Life Points as you will run into few willing Opponent's who will allow you to do as you please as their objective is also to win against you. That said you cannot rely on always having the Monster with the highest Attack Points or the best Card Effect, therefore your Spell and Trap Cards must work to help eliminate threats by either removing them from the Board or allowing you to get over your Opponent's strongest Monster in Battle. So knowing when you can attack and when you cannot will help you gain victory.

In closing with the tens of thousands of Cards at your disposal your victory is dependent on how well your Deck is built on reducing your Opponent's Life Points to zero if the other three avenues of victory are unavailable to you. Your Key Monster Card is the chief cornerstone; your other Monster Cards will be built around and on top of it to make up the foundation; your Spell Cards act as the walls of your house; and, finally your Trap Cards act as the roof of your house. So if you don't choose the right Key Monster Card for your Deck then it will crack under pressure, and this will cause your foundation to give way, and lead to the collapse of your house.


Lol this is very vague
For one you should never have life points as the main focus of your games, the entire aim of the game is to maintain card advantage, winning and reducong your opponent's life points to Zero will be something you simply stumble across.

The OCG has a radically different banlist and card pool than the TCG so it should not necesarily be used to see the meta n the TCG

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Post #32 by greg503 » Wed Oct 13, 2021 1:17 pm

BoomerDuels wrote:For one you should never have life points as the main focus of your games, the entire aim of the game is to maintain card advantage, winning and [reducing] your opponent's life points to Zero will be something you simply stumble across.

Remember all those times in the Progression Series Gage activated Destrudo only to get OTK'd next turn?
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Post #33 by BoomerDuels » Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:12 am

greg503 wrote:
BoomerDuels wrote:For one you should never have life points as the main focus of your games, the entire aim of the game is to maintain card advantage, winning and [reducing] your opponent's life points to Zero will be something you simply stumble across.

Remember all those times in the Progression Series Gage activated Destrudo only to get OTK'd next turn?



....
For 1 gage misplays like Shit

And for another - The entire aim of the game is card advantage. Life points don't matter

Go to any YCS and tell me otherwise

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Post #34 by Renji Asuka » Thu Oct 14, 2021 7:52 am

BoomerDuels wrote:
greg503 wrote:
BoomerDuels wrote:For one you should never have life points as the main focus of your games, the entire aim of the game is to maintain card advantage, winning and [reducing] your opponent's life points to Zero will be something you simply stumble across.

Remember all those times in the Progression Series Gage activated Destrudo only to get OTK'd next turn?



....
For 1 gage misplays like Shit

And for another - The entire aim of the game is card advantage. Life points don't matter

Go to any YCS and tell me otherwise

LP very much matters in the game. Here's why. You can play Solemn Judgment, then Solemn Warning, then get finished off by a Cyber Dragon just sayin...
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Post #35 by greg503 » Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:32 pm

BoomerDuels wrote:
greg503 wrote:
BoomerDuels wrote:For one you should never have life points as the main focus of your games, the entire aim of the game is to maintain card advantage, winning and [reducing] your opponent's life points to Zero will be something you simply stumble across.

Remember all those times in the Progression Series Gage activated Destrudo only to get OTK'd next turn?



....
For 1 gage misplays like Shit

And for another - The entire aim of the game is card advantage. Life points don't matter

Go to any YCS and tell me otherwise

Go to any YCS and ask them if they DON'T win via damage
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Post #36 by BoomerDuels » Sun Oct 17, 2021 4:17 am

greg503 wrote:
BoomerDuels wrote:
greg503 wrote:Remember all those times in the Progression Series Gage activated Destrudo only to get OTK'd next turn?



....
For 1 gage misplays like Shit

And for another - The entire aim of the game is card advantage. Life points don't matter

Go to any YCS and tell me otherwise

Go to any YCS and ask them if they DON'T win via damage


So none of you here know what you are talking about
Sure - Damage i technically the way you *win* the game
But achieving that requires focusing your deck solely on card advantage
Why are sky strikers such a good deck?

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Post #37 by greg503 » Sun Oct 17, 2021 2:04 pm

BoomerDuels wrote:
greg503 wrote:
BoomerDuels wrote:

....
For 1 gage misplays like Shit

And for another - The entire aim of the game is card advantage. Life points don't matter

Go to any YCS and tell me otherwise

Go to any YCS and ask them if they DON'T win via damage


So none of you here know what you are talking about
Sure - Damage i technically the way you *win* the game
But achieving that requires focusing your deck solely on card advantage
Why are sky strikers such a good deck?

You mean why were they such a good deck, in fact, why was Mine Burn a good deck again?
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Post #38 by Renji Asuka » Sun Oct 17, 2021 2:36 pm

BoomerDuels wrote:
greg503 wrote:
BoomerDuels wrote:

....
For 1 gage misplays like Shit

And for another - The entire aim of the game is card advantage. Life points don't matter

Go to any YCS and tell me otherwise

Go to any YCS and ask them if they DON'T win via damage


So none of you here know what you are talking about
Sure - Damage i technically the way you *win* the game
But achieving that requires focusing your deck solely on card advantage
Why are sky strikers such a good deck?

There's a reason why some players played through Maxx "C" cause they knew they could win that turn.

Card Advantage while important, it is not the end all be all.
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Post #39 by BoomerDuels » Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:53 am

Renji Asuka wrote:
BoomerDuels wrote:
greg503 wrote:Go to any YCS and ask them if they DON'T win via damage


So none of you here know what you are talking about
Sure - Damage i technically the way you *win* the game
But achieving that requires focusing your deck solely on card advantage
Why are sky strikers such a good deck?

There's a reason why some players played through Maxx "C" cause they knew they could win that turn.

Card Advantage while important, it is not the end all be all.


Well ye but this dude said it was less important than life points

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Post #40 by Renji Asuka » Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:17 am

BoomerDuels wrote:
Renji Asuka wrote:
BoomerDuels wrote:
So none of you here know what you are talking about
Sure - Damage i technically the way you *win* the game
But achieving that requires focusing your deck solely on card advantage
Why are sky strikers such a good deck?

There's a reason why some players played through Maxx "C" cause they knew they could win that turn.

Card Advantage while important, it is not the end all be all.


Well ye but this dude said it was less important than life points

That's because Life Point management is very important especially since you can lose to time in tournaments.
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