Why 11,350 Cards? How do I make sense of it?

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Why 11,350 Cards? How do I make sense of it?

Post #1 by xXJack_AtlasXx » Sun Aug 22, 2021 3:47 pm

In my previous post Total Number of Legal OCG and TCG Cards in Yu-Gi-Oh! Master Duel (As of 08/21/2021) I stated the number of playable cards:

Total Number of Yu-Gi-Oh! cards in the World:
11,350 Cards

Total Number of OCG Cards:
7,508 Monster Cards
2,164 Spell Cards
1,678 Trap Cards
11,350 Cards


Total Number of TCG Cards:
7,223 Monster Cards
2,119 Spell Cards
1,667 Traps Cards
11,009 Cards


While this is great knowledge why does it matter to the Duelist to know such numbers? And how does one even translate such knowledge to be understood and applied in real scenarios of the game, and deck building? You need to know what you're working with and then be able to break down the whole into parts; from there you understand how the parts work alone and together; from here you can then build the natural systems these parts make up or build an original system which applies the same guiding principles of systems.

For starters these numbers at a glance let us know that a majority of the wins will be decided by monsters. And these wins come in one of four ways which I will list from common to super rare:

1) Reduce Opponent's Life Points to Zero (Common).
2) Alternate Win-Condition (Uncommon).
3) Opponent unable to Draw Cards (Rare).
4) Opponent unable to Play Cards (Super Rare).


Therefore your deck must be able to reduce your Opponent's Life Points to 0 should the other three win conditions not be possible to carry out. And to do this effectively you need a large amount of options to choose from as building your Deck may be likened to building a house:

Ceiling (Trap Cards)
Walls (Spell Cards)
Foundation (Monster Cards)
Chief Cornerstone (Key Monster Card)


Before moving further let us look at the ratios and the relationship the numbers share with one another to get a basic idea of what they're communicating:

11,009 Cards ÷ 11,350 Cards = 97% Percent
11,350 Cards - 11, 009 Cards = 341 Card Difference
341 Cards ÷ 11,350 Cards = 3% Percent


We see that the OCG is playing with just 3% Percent more Cards than we are and therefore would be wise to study the trends which arise there. This is crucial if one is to become the "King of Games" for one must win the World Championship to truly gain that title, for at this event the cards playable will be in favor of the OCG.

Let us now look at the Monster, Spell, and Trap Card ratio among both formats:

OCG (Original Card Game)
7,508 Monster Cards ÷ 11,350 Cards = 66% Percent
2,164 Spell Cards ÷ 11,350 Cards = 19% Percent
1,678 Trap Cards ÷ 11,350 Cards = 15% Percent


TCG (Trading Card Game)
7,223 Monster Cards ÷ 11,009 Cards = 66%
2,119 Spell Cards ÷ 11,009 Cards = 19% Percent
1,667 Trap Cards ÷ 11,009 Cards = 15% Percent


Your Decks construction is heavily dependent on the integrity of you Key Monster Card and the Monster Cards as they will hold up the rest of your Deck, and be doing a majority of the work. Therefore Your Deck should always be ready to reduce your Opponent's Life Points to 0 in the event that your other three avenues to victory are unavailable, and in the most pressing of circumstances you must be able to bring the game to a draw. If none of these objectives can be achieved then defeat will be your result. Since both players begin with 8,000 Life Points you must ensure that your Deck can reduce them in one of eight ways:

1) Inflict 8,000 Damage 1 time.
2) Inflict 4,000 Damage 2 times.
3) Inflict 2,000 Damage 4 times.
4) Inflict 1,000 Damage 8 times.
5) Inflict 800 Damage 10 times.
6) Inflict 400 Damage 20 times.
7) Inflict 200 Damage 40 times.
8) Inflict 100 Damage 80 times.


As can be clearly seen the greater the damage you can Inflict the quicker the game will go and the less damage you can Inflict the slower the game will go. Yet on both extreme ends it becomes more difficult to win the higher or lower you go on the scale as you can only inflict damage in two ways:

1) Battle Damage.
2) Effect Damage.


Each of these ways of inflicting damage have three methods by which they may be accomplished:

Battle Damage:
1) Direct Attack.
2) Battle Damage.
3) Direct Damage.


Effect Damage:
1) Monster Card Effect
2) Spell Card Effect
3) Trap Card Effect


Do not be foolish in relying on only one method to Inflict damage to your Opponent's Life Points as you will run into few willing Opponent's who will allow you to do as you please as their objective is also to win against you. That said you cannot rely on always having the Monster with the highest Attack Points or the best Card Effect, therefore your Spell and Trap Cards must work to help eliminate threats by either removing them from the Board or allowing you to get over your Opponent's strongest Monster in Battle. So knowing when you can attack and when you cannot will help you gain victory.

In closing with the tens of thousands of Cards at your disposal your victory is dependent on how well your Deck is built on reducing your Opponent's Life Points to zero if the other three avenues of victory are unavailable to you. Your Key Monster Card is the chief cornerstone; your other Monster Cards will be built around and on top of it to make up the foundation; your Spell Cards act as the walls of your house; and, finally your Trap Cards act as the roof of your house. So if you don't choose the right Key Monster Card for your Deck then it will crack under pressure, and this will cause your foundation to give way, and lead to the collapse of your house.

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Post #2 by greg503 » Sun Aug 22, 2021 9:48 pm

Or, you know, just look at the top decklists to get a sense of what archtypes and what generic cards are good currently, e.g. A new D. HERO Fusion is winning in the OCG.
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Post #3 by xXJack_AtlasXx » Sun Aug 22, 2021 11:02 pm

greg503 wrote:Or, you know, just look at the top decklists to get a sense of what archtypes and what generic cards are good currently, e.g. A new D. HERO Fusion is winning in the OCG.

Yes and I did mention that briefly when I said:

"Before moving further let us look at the ratios and the relationship the numbers share with one another to get a basic idea of what they're communicating:

11,009 Cards ÷ 11,350 Cards = 97% Percent
11,350 Cards - 11, 009 Cards = 341 Card Difference
341 Cards ÷ 11,350 Cards = 3% Percent

We see that the OCG is playing with just 3% Percent more Cards than we are and therefore would be wise to study the trends which arise there. This is crucial if one is to become the "King of Games" for one must win the World Championship to truly gain that title, for at this event the cards playable will be in favor of the OCG."


Other than that thanks for giving your input. This post--along with others that follow--are to help kep the big picture in mind to help Duelists simplify their card choices by making sure they focus on the main objective on how the game is won to begin with rather than aimlessly using whatever the in thing is.
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Post #4 by xXJack_AtlasXx » Sun Aug 22, 2021 11:11 pm

greg503 wrote:Or, you know, just look at the top decklists to get a sense of what archtypes and what generic cards are good currently, e.g. A new D. HERO Fusion is winning in the OCG.

One other thing I forgot to mention is that if you're satisifed with never making it to the World Championship and are content with accomplishing less then that is fine as well. My posts are written with the aim to encourage new and existing players to think bigger and shoot higher than casual play, and especially encourage those who dream of attaining the "King of Games" title by giving them a clear and straightforward path to follow with sound principles to guide them along the way. I really see a lack of yugioh principles in the community and don't want to be talking about "tech cards" or the "hottest trend" like so many others already do.

When I discovered Dueling Book had a special forum called Serious Discussions I found this to be a prime opportunity to be able to discuss the mindset, philosophy, and the history of Yu-Gi-Oh! so that all fellow duelists can actually learn what the narative of the series is trying to teach us about what it really means to be the "King of Games" and how that title is gained or lost.

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Post #5 by robinatk » Mon Aug 23, 2021 10:46 am

xXJack_AtlasXx wrote:
greg503 wrote:Or, you know, just look at the top decklists to get a sense of what archtypes and what generic cards are good currently, e.g. A new D. HERO Fusion is winning in the OCG.

One other thing I forgot to mention is that if you're satisifed with never making it to the World Championship and are content with accomplishing less then that is fine as well. My posts are written with the aim to encourage new and existing players to think bigger and shoot higher than casual play, and especially encourage those who dream of attaining the "King of Games" title by giving them a clear and straightforward path to follow with sound principles to guide them along the way. I really see a lack of yugioh principles in the community and don't want to be talking about "tech cards" or the "hottest trend" like so many others already do.

When I discovered Dueling Book had a special forum called Serious Discussions I found this to be a prime opportunity to be able to discuss the mindset, philosophy, and the history of Yu-Gi-Oh! so that all fellow duelists can actually learn what the narative of the series is trying to teach us about what it really means to be the "King of Games" and how that title is gained or lost.



Show us your World Championship win then

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Post #6 by greg503 » Mon Aug 23, 2021 1:15 pm

xXJack_AtlasXx wrote:
greg503 wrote:Or, you know, just look at the top decklists to get a sense of what archtypes and what generic cards are good currently, e.g. A new D. HERO Fusion is winning in the OCG.

We see that the OCG is playing with just 3% Percent more Cards than we are and therefore would be wise to study the trends which arise there. This is crucial if one is to become the "King of Games" for one must win the World Championship to truly gain that title, for at this event the cards playable will be in favor of the OCG."

Last I checked, Worlds is restricted to cards available in both formats, the combined banlist of both formats, and a few more stall cards like Rainbow Life. Neither TCG players, nor OCG players would have an advantage.
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Post #7 by xXJack_AtlasXx » Mon Aug 23, 2021 3:46 pm

greg503 wrote:
xXJack_AtlasXx wrote:
greg503 wrote:Or, you know, just look at the top decklists to get a sense of what archtypes and what generic cards are good currently, e.g. A new D. HERO Fusion is winning in the OCG.

We see that the OCG is playing with just 3% Percent more Cards than we are and therefore would be wise to study the trends which arise there. This is crucial if one is to become the "King of Games" for one must win the World Championship to truly gain that title, for at this event the cards playable will be in favor of the OCG."

Last I checked, Worlds is restricted to cards available in both formats, the combined banlist of both formats, and a few more stall cards like Rainbow Life. Neither TCG players, nor OCG players would have an advantage.

Here's a link from the Official Yu-Gi-Oh! site which makes it clear that only the Forbidden and Limited List is changed, not the cards available for play by both sides:

World Championship Celebration 2019 Forbidden & Limited Lists
For North, Central, and South American Territories

https://www.yugioh-card.com/en/events/specialevents/WC_OTS_Celebration_FL_List.html

This official announcement from Konami means that OCG cards will be played at world's. Therefore if you don't keep up with the trends there as a TCG player you'll be significantly behind because of lack of information and practice with said cards.
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Post #8 by greg503 » Mon Aug 23, 2021 5:21 pm

Link broke, try putting it in the [url] tag, also how do they expect TCG players to be able to use cards only released in the OCG at time of Worlds?
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Post #9 by xXJack_AtlasXx » Mon Aug 23, 2021 7:09 pm

greg503 wrote:Link broke, try putting it in the [url] tag, also how do they expect TCG players to be able to use cards only released in the OCG at time of Worlds?

Okay sorry about the broken link I took your suggestion about putting it in the URL tag, so it should be fine now. As regards the last part of your comment they expect that each duelist will be responsible for studying and testing the OCG cards for themselves if they wish to compete in worlds. Of course they'll be nice and help explain and read cards, but at that level it's expected that the duelist did their homework ahead of time.

So, instead of simply stating my opinion I thought it prudent to give some hard figures that people can work with and reference. While I haven't bothered to run the numbers on the more minute details I believe we can all agree that TCG having only 97% Percent of the picture means that OCG has 100% Percent of the picture with their 3% Percent advantage. To get an idea of what those results translate to real world let's look at some more hard data:

World Championship
https://yugioh.fandom.com/wiki/World_Championship

From 2,003 to 2,019 there have been 16 Yu-Gi-Oh! World Championships

OCG won 12 out of 16 Yu-Gi-Oh! World Championships

TCG won 4 out of 16 Yu-Gi-Oh! World Championships

This means that OCG has won 75% Percent or 3/4 Quarters of the world championships while TCG has only won 25% Percent or 1/4 Quarter of the same events. So, for TCG players to remain ignorant of such a small percentage of cards have led to the results we see today.

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Post #10 by robinatk » Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:48 pm

xXJack_AtlasXx wrote:
greg503 wrote:Link broke, try putting it in the [url] tag, also how do they expect TCG players to be able to use cards only released in the OCG at time of Worlds?

Okay sorry about the broken link I took your suggestion about putting it in the URL tag, so it should be fine now. As regards the last part of your comment they expect that each duelist will be responsible for studying and testing the OCG cards for themselves if they wish to compete in worlds. Of course they'll be nice and help explain and read cards, but at that level it's expected that the duelist did their homework ahead of time.

So, instead of simply stating my opinion I thought it prudent to give some hard figures that people can work with and reference. While I haven't bothered to run the numbers on the more minute details I believe we can all agree that TCG having only 97% Percent of the picture means that OCG has 100% Percent of the picture with their 3% Percent advantage. To get an idea of what those results translate to real world let's look at some more hard data:

World Championship
https://yugioh.fandom.com/wiki/World_Championship

From 2,003 to 2,019 there have been 16 Yu-Gi-Oh! World Championships

OCG won 12 out of 16 Yu-Gi-Oh! World Championships

TCG won 4 out of 16 Yu-Gi-Oh! World Championships

This means that OCG has won 75% Percent or 3/4 Quarters of the world championships while TCG has only won 25% Percent or 1/4 Quarter of the same events. So, for TCG players to remain ignorant of such a small percentage of cards have led to the results we see today.


Even your fandom link proves that OCG only cards are illegal at worlds... only cards released in both versions of the game are legal at worlds.
From your stats, the trend we see is that the OCG have better players. That is all.

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Post #11 by xXJack_AtlasXx » Sat Aug 28, 2021 9:06 pm

robinatk wrote:
xXJack_AtlasXx wrote:
greg503 wrote:Link broke, try putting it in the [url] tag, also how do they expect TCG players to be able to use cards only released in the OCG at time of Worlds?

Okay sorry about the broken link I took your suggestion about putting it in the URL tag, so it should be fine now. As regards the last part of your comment they expect that each duelist will be responsible for studying and testing the OCG cards for themselves if they wish to compete in worlds. Of course they'll be nice and help explain and read cards, but at that level it's expected that the duelist did their homework ahead of time.

So, instead of simply stating my opinion I thought it prudent to give some hard figures that people can work with and reference. While I haven't bothered to run the numbers on the more minute details I believe we can all agree that TCG having only 97% Percent of the picture means that OCG has 100% Percent of the picture with their 3% Percent advantage. To get an idea of what those results translate to real world let's look at some more hard data:

World Championship
https://yugioh.fandom.com/wiki/World_Championship

From 2,003 to 2,019 there have been 16 Yu-Gi-Oh! World Championships

OCG won 12 out of 16 Yu-Gi-Oh! World Championships

TCG won 4 out of 16 Yu-Gi-Oh! World Championships

This means that OCG has won 75% Percent or 3/4 Quarters of the world championships while TCG has only won 25% Percent or 1/4 Quarter of the same events. So, for TCG players to remain ignorant of such a small percentage of cards have led to the results we see today.


Even your fandom link proves that OCG only cards are illegal at worlds... only cards released in both versions of the game are legal at worlds.
From your stats, the trend we see is that the OCG have better players. That is all.

If you read the Yu-G-Oh! Fandom link carefully, the "not legal cards in any region" are referring to hard to get cards or cards that come out in exclusives such as the case with Shonen Jump promotional cards. Applying your line of reasoning would mean that since OCG cards are not legal to play in TCG therefore they should not be allowed at world events; and in the same manner since TCG cards are legal in any TCG territory only you can't play them in OCG or world events: therefore your line of reasoning would conclude that no cards could be played at the Yu-Gi-Oh! World Championship.

Here's an official links from Konami clearly explaining card legality:
https://img.yugioh-card.com/uk/gameplay/detail.php?id=426

As far as the numbers I have shared goes they clearly show that one reason why OCG players are better than TCG players is because they have the complete knowledge base to work with. And for whatever reason TCG players don't want to study this. But, instead of wasting precious time and energy with fault finding others I thought it best to actually gather hard and practical data for all players to benefit from.
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Post #12 by Renji Asuka » Sat Aug 28, 2021 9:26 pm

The difference in Card Pool isn't the reason.

Asians are typically superior when it comes to gaming in general. We see high success with Asians across every competitive game.
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Post #13 by xXJack_AtlasXx » Sat Aug 28, 2021 9:47 pm

Renji Asuka wrote:The difference in Card Pool isn't the reason.

Asians are typically superior when it comes to gaming in general. We see high success with Asians across every competitive game.

Cool signature man! I like your "King of Games" flex ha ha. I did state that the card pool difference is only one of the reasons though...not the main reason...still if you look at the patterns between both sides the mindset and diligence also separates them, not some magical inherited skill or something in Asians which makes them superior.

That aside my main point is that to not have the full picture is to be behind. Also the OCG players don't so hyped about shiny cards like TCG players do, and I remember the shock of one of my OCG friends from Japan when he told me that our TCG secret rare Pot of Greed has always been a common in Japan. After that experience I stopped valuing cards based on their shine and rarity but, instead on how they integrated with te Deck as a whole, and how well they accomplished the win condition for the game itself.
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Post #14 by DarwisBellium92 » Sat Aug 28, 2021 11:09 pm

Mistake:
Pot of Duality in OCG (DREV) is common, while in TCG, is Secret Rare
No pot of greed
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Post #15 by robinatk » Sat Aug 28, 2021 11:26 pm

No, you're missunderstanding your own fandom link.
The Official link you provided has no relevance on the Worlds Banlist, it purely states which cards are legal in Europe as not all TCG cards release in all TCG locations at the same time.
Only cards that exist in both CG's are legal at worlds.

You've already wasted precious time and energy making this post... What impact will this have? If it's purely your opinion (which it is) to say that ALL TCG players do not look at the OCG and learn from them... our formats usually consist of what they've already played tweaked for our F&L list.

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Post #16 by robinatk » Sat Aug 28, 2021 11:29 pm

xXJack_AtlasXx wrote:
Renji Asuka wrote:The difference in Card Pool isn't the reason.

Asians are typically superior when it comes to gaming in general. We see high success with Asians across every competitive game.

Cool signature man! I like your "King of Games" flex ha ha. I did state that the card pool difference is only one of the reasons though...not the main reason...still if you look at the patterns between both sides the mindset and diligence also separates them, not some magical inherited skill or something in Asians which makes them superior.

That aside my main point is that to not have the full picture is to be behind. Also the OCG players to don't so hyped about shiny cards like TCG players do, and I remember the shock of one of my OCG friends from Japan when he told me that our TCG secret rare POt of Greed has always been a common in Japan. After that experience I stopped valuing cards based on their shine and rarity but, instead on how they integrated with te Deck as a whole, and how well they accomplished the win condition for the game itself.


Konami rarity bump key cards from the OCG format. It's not that the TCG players "lIkE sHiNy CaRdS" it's that Konami have seen what cards are sort after in the OCG and bumped them to sell more product.

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Post #17 by xXJack_AtlasXx » Sun Aug 29, 2021 1:23 am

robinatk wrote:No, you're missunderstanding your own fandom link.
The Official link you provided has no relevance on the Worlds Banlist, it purely states which cards are legal in Europe as not all TCG cards release in all TCG locations at the same time.
Only cards that exist in both CG's are legal at worlds.

You've already wasted precious time and energy making this post... What impact will this have? If it's purely your opinion (which it is) to say that ALL TCG players do not look at the OCG and learn from them... our formats usually consist of what they've already played tweaked for our F&L list.

Well if you can think of something better then you can always create your own thread? This is supposed to be a forum about Serious Discussions after all. Otherwise do you have anything meaningful to contribute to this thread?

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Post #18 by robinatk » Sun Aug 29, 2021 1:34 am

xXJack_AtlasXx wrote:
robinatk wrote:No, you're missunderstanding your own fandom link.
The Official link you provided has no relevance on the Worlds Banlist, it purely states which cards are legal in Europe as not all TCG cards release in all TCG locations at the same time.
Only cards that exist in both CG's are legal at worlds.

You've already wasted precious time and energy making this post... What impact will this have? If it's purely your opinion (which it is) to say that ALL TCG players do not look at the OCG and learn from them... our formats usually consist of what they've already played tweaked for our F&L list.

Well if you can think of something better then you can always create your own thread? This is supposed to be a forum about Serious Discussions after all. Otherwise do you have anything meaningful to contribute to this thread?


Just to constantly remind you about what cards are legal in Worlds banlist until you know the correct answer and stop spreading missinformation.
And to refute your accusations of the TCG player base when you talk out your rear end.

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Post #19 by xXJack_AtlasXx » Sun Aug 29, 2021 2:59 am

robinatk wrote:
xXJack_AtlasXx wrote:
robinatk wrote:No, you're missunderstanding your own fandom link.
The Official link you provided has no relevance on the Worlds Banlist, it purely states which cards are legal in Europe as not all TCG cards release in all TCG locations at the same time.
Only cards that exist in both CG's are legal at worlds.

You've already wasted precious time and energy making this post... What impact will this have? If it's purely your opinion (which it is) to say that ALL TCG players do not look at the OCG and learn from them... our formats usually consist of what they've already played tweaked for our F&L list.

Well if you can think of something better then you can always create your own thread? This is supposed to be a forum about Serious Discussions after all. Otherwise do you have anything meaningful to contribute to this thread?


Just to constantly remind you about what cards are legal in Worlds banlist until you know the correct answer and stop spreading missinformation.
And to refute your accusations of the TCG player base when you talk out your rear end.

So are you saying that the shoe fits you? All I'm getting from your posts is that you're triggered.

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Post #20 by greg503 » Sun Aug 29, 2021 2:01 pm

xXJack_AtlasXx wrote:
robinatk wrote:
xXJack_AtlasXx wrote:Well if you can think of something better then you can always create your own thread? This is supposed to be a forum about Serious Discussions after all. Otherwise do you have anything meaningful to contribute to this thread?


Just to constantly remind you about what cards are legal in Worlds banlist until you know the correct answer and stop spreading missinformation.
And to refute your accusations of the TCG player base when you talk out your rear end.

So are you saying that the shoe fits you? All I'm getting from your posts is that you're triggered.

Why would the let region exclusive cards in Worlds?
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