Duelingbook Forum

Wek wrote:

Renji Asuka wrote:

Wek wrote:
Or they can choose instead to reject the schedule and not volunteer for those time periods. What motivation would they have to follow-up through with a forced schedule?

If they don't show up, they lose their status as a judge.

Simple as that.

If you can't or are not willing to put time into a schedule then you shouldn't had been a judge to begin with.

Ok, so they lose their status as a judge, and now there are less judges? Now the judges who left have fewer things to deal with, and there are fewer judges. That number would likely only go down from there as judges decide it's better not to deal with the timelines. Don't see there being enough judges left over to sustain whatever schedule it is you're looking for.

If judges are not doing their job, they should not be judges.

Renji Asuka wrote:

Genexwrecker wrote:

Renji Asuka wrote:Or, here's an idea.

Create a schedule for the volunteers.

And yes, even volunteers have to abide by a schedule when they volunteer to do stuff.

Actually you don’t go off somebody else’s schedule when you volunteer. You go off your own. Its volunteer. Aka not something one needs go do and does when they are able to. They volunteer at places and hours that work for them not the owner. The entire point of volunteer is it something extra you do in your free time not someone else’s. Even these so called places that demand volunteer schedules still have people working at only hours the volunteer can work or agree to. Hobbies like this also cannot remotely be compared to an actual volunteer job. Even the owner just does things when they are able and not on a schedule no matter how badly the site may need it.

Actually you do go off someone's schedule when you volunteer.

I volunteered at the church to pass out food each month, guess what? I have to be there by 9 AM to help set everything up and to pass out food as people come early.

I have volunteered to help set up plays, again I had to show up at a certain time.

So this idea that "you don't go off somebody's else's schedule when you volunteer" isn't an actual argument. All you're doing is creating excuses.

I'm confused on what argument you think I'm making. If I set up schedules for my volunteer judges, they will leave. It is that simple. And I can't stop them from leaving, because I don't hold any leverage over them...because they are volunteers. And while I let Genexwrecker have SkyFyre13 and Tote as slaves, I don't hold all of them as slaves (for legal reasons, that's a joke).

These aren't excuses. It's reality.

MarshieDemon wrote:

Renji Asuka wrote:

Genexwrecker wrote:Actually you don’t go off somebody else’s schedule when you volunteer. You go off your own. Its volunteer. Aka not something one needs go do and does when they are able to. They volunteer at places and hours that work for them not the owner. The entire point of volunteer is it something extra you do in your free time not someone else’s. Even these so called places that demand volunteer schedules still have people working at only hours the volunteer can work or agree to. Hobbies like this also cannot remotely be compared to an actual volunteer job. Even the owner just does things when they are able and not on a schedule no matter how badly the site may need it.

Actually you do go off someone's schedule when you volunteer.

I volunteered at the church to pass out food each month, guess what? I have to be there by 9 AM to help set everything up and to pass out food as people come early.

I have volunteered to help set up plays, again I had to show up at a certain time.

So this idea that "you don't go off somebody's else's schedule when you volunteer" isn't an actual argument. All you're doing is creating excuses.

I'm confused on what argument you think I'm making. If I set up schedules for my volunteer judges, they will leave. It is that simple. And I can't stop them from leaving, because I don't hold any leverage over them...because they are volunteers. And while I let Genexwrecker have SkyFyre13 and Tote as slaves, I don't hold all of them as slaves (for legal reasons, that's a joke).

These aren't excuses. It's reality.

So you're saying that your judges are so self centered that heaven forbid they pop on for an hour a day at a consistent time frame that will cause them to leave?

Idk, if the judges were to leave because of a schedule, they shouldn't had become judges in the first place.

Even if it's volunteer work they are still making a commitment, and if they can't fulfill that commitment then why are they judges in the first place?

Also the idea that a schedule couldn't work is really silly, as a schedule can be made around each of the judges to pop on throughout the day.

You can also provide an incentive for people to be judges if they work on the schedule for example (implying this isn't a thing already) they could get free donation stuff at a week's worth or so.

So again, all I'm hearing is excuses cause if you only try to think about how it can't work instead of how it can work we'd be here all day.

Renji Asuka wrote:

Wek wrote:

Renji Asuka wrote:If they don't show up, they lose their status as a judge.

Simple as that.

If you can't or are not willing to put time into a schedule then you shouldn't had been a judge to begin with.

Ok, so they lose their status as a judge, and now there are less judges? Now the judges who left have fewer things to deal with, and there are fewer judges. That number would likely only go down from there as judges decide it's better not to deal with the timelines. Don't see there being enough judges left over to sustain whatever schedule it is you're looking for.

If judges are not doing their job, they should not be judges.

Except right now it's not part of their job to be on a schedule, nor should it be. Judging isn't even a job in the sense that they're getting paid for this. Trying to force making a schedule on volunteers looks to be a lazy attempt at a solution that's only going to make the problem worse. They did not sign up for a schedule to be forced upon them. There's no reason to tell volunteers "if you can't always help me on these exact times I don't want any of your help at all" for this situation.

Renji Asuka wrote:

Genexwrecker wrote:

Renji Asuka wrote:Or, here's an idea.

Create a schedule for the volunteers.

And yes, even volunteers have to abide by a schedule when they volunteer to do stuff.

Actually you don’t go off somebody else’s schedule when you volunteer. You go off your own. Its volunteer. Aka not something one needs go do and does when they are able to. They volunteer at places and hours that work for them not the owner. The entire point of volunteer is it something extra you do in your free time not someone else’s. Even these so called places that demand volunteer schedules still have people working at only hours the volunteer can work or agree to. Hobbies like this also cannot remotely be compared to an actual volunteer job. Even the owner just does things when they are able and not on a schedule no matter how badly the site may need it.

Actually you do go off someone's schedule when you volunteer.

I volunteered at the church to pass out food each month, guess what? I have to be there by 9 AM to help set everything up and to pass out food as people come early.

I have volunteered to help set up plays, again I had to show up at a certain time.

So this idea that "you don't go off somebody's else's schedule when you volunteer" isn't an actual argument. All you're doing is creating excuses.

Well gee, if you have something happening at a certain time, of course you'd need volunteering to occur within a certain timeframe to even be useful. If someone was asking for volunteers for help on March 2, someone with time open only on Marsh 15 isn't going to be able to help. "I need you here at a time where you can actually do something" is not about volunteers requiring a schedule, that's just basic practicality for doing stuff. DB's calls are 24/7, relentlessly having people come out with problems, some reasonable, others absurd. They'll take the help whenever they can get it. Sometimes that will come out to longer than an hour in that day, other times it won't.

Wek wrote:

Renji Asuka wrote:

Wek wrote:
Ok, so they lose their status as a judge, and now there are less judges? Now the judges who left have fewer things to deal with, and there are fewer judges. That number would likely only go down from there as judges decide it's better not to deal with the timelines. Don't see there being enough judges left over to sustain whatever schedule it is you're looking for.

If judges are not doing their job, they should not be judges.

Except right now it's not part of their job to be on a schedule, nor should it be. Judging isn't even a job in the sense that they're getting paid for this. Trying to force making a schedule on volunteers looks to be a lazy attempt at a solution that's only going to make the problem worse. They did not sign up for a schedule to be forced upon them. There's no reason to tell volunteers "if you can't always help me on these exact times I don't want any of your help at all" for this situation.

So you rather the judge be nothing more than a glorified social club? Because that is exactly what it is currently.

I don't really know what else to tell you, dude. I've presented the dilemma as we see it, and we clearly are not going to agree on your proposed solution. We will continue to manage our judges, in terms of hiring new ones and maintaining current ones, in what we consider the most efficient and effective way possible.

Renji Asuka wrote:

Wek wrote:

Renji Asuka wrote:If judges are not doing their job, they should not be judges.

Except right now it's not part of their job to be on a schedule, nor should it be. Judging isn't even a job in the sense that they're getting paid for this. Trying to force making a schedule on volunteers looks to be a lazy attempt at a solution that's only going to make the problem worse. They did not sign up for a schedule to be forced upon them. There's no reason to tell volunteers "if you can't always help me on these exact times I don't want any of your help at all" for this situation.

So you rather the judge be nothing more than a glorified social club? Because that is exactly what it is currently.

You're basing that on what, exactly? Them not doing the schedule you've proposed? The OP already laid out a solution, as did Marshiedemon. Pass the exam, become a judge. You can show us how easy this "1 hour schedule" is.

What was it you said "for change to happen for others, you have to change yourself and also push others to change right?". Get up there and do it, grab a friend if you want to, and show us this hypothetical solution in action. I see judges here that have thousands of calls, you'll see them write it on their profile, for example Genexwrecker claims over 19,000. That's a bit more than a glorified social club, unless you want to claim they're lying about their call count?

Wek wrote:

Renji Asuka wrote:

Wek wrote:
Except right now it's not part of their job to be on a schedule, nor should it be. Judging isn't even a job in the sense that they're getting paid for this. Trying to force making a schedule on volunteers looks to be a lazy attempt at a solution that's only going to make the problem worse. They did not sign up for a schedule to be forced upon them. There's no reason to tell volunteers "if you can't always help me on these exact times I don't want any of your help at all" for this situation.

So you rather the judge be nothing more than a glorified social club? Because that is exactly what it is currently.

You're basing that on what, exactly? Them not doing the schedule you've proposed? The OP already laid out a solution, as did Marshiedemon. Pass the exam, become a judge. You can show us how easy this "1 hour schedule" is.

What was it you said "for change to happen for others, you have to change yourself and also push others to change right?". Get up there and do it, grab a friend if you want to, and show us this hypothetical solution in action. I see judges here that have thousands of calls, you'll see them write it on their profile, for example Genexwrecker claims over 19,000. That's a bit more than a glorified social club, unless you want to claim they're lying about their call count?

When you rarely ever see judges online, yes it's nothing more than a glorified club.

Also Genexwrecker stated they wouldn't hire me as a judge (not because I couldn't pass the exam before you think that's why).

Renji Asuka wrote:

Wek wrote:

Renji Asuka wrote:So you rather the judge be nothing more than a glorified social club? Because that is exactly what it is currently.

You're basing that on what, exactly? Them not doing the schedule you've proposed? The OP already laid out a solution, as did Marshiedemon. Pass the exam, become a judge. You can show us how easy this "1 hour schedule" is.

What was it you said "for change to happen for others, you have to change yourself and also push others to change right?". Get up there and do it, grab a friend if you want to, and show us this hypothetical solution in action. I see judges here that have thousands of calls, you'll see them write it on their profile, for example Genexwrecker claims over 19,000. That's a bit more than a glorified social club, unless you want to claim they're lying about their call count?

When you rarely ever see judges online, yes it's nothing more than a glorified club.

Also Genexwrecker stated they wouldn't hire me as a judge (not because I couldn't pass the exam before you think that's why).

You not seeing judges online doesn't make them a glorified club all by itself. I already mentioned the thousands of calls individual judges have taken, let alone whatever the full total is if you add all of the judges together.

Since you've brought these up though, why is it Genexwrecker says they won't hire you, and have you passed the exam? Put this claim to the test?

Wek wrote:

Renji Asuka wrote:

Wek wrote:
You're basing that on what, exactly? Them not doing the schedule you've proposed? The OP already laid out a solution, as did Marshiedemon. Pass the exam, become a judge. You can show us how easy this "1 hour schedule" is.

What was it you said "for change to happen for others, you have to change yourself and also push others to change right?". Get up there and do it, grab a friend if you want to, and show us this hypothetical solution in action. I see judges here that have thousands of calls, you'll see them write it on their profile, for example Genexwrecker claims over 19,000. That's a bit more than a glorified social club, unless you want to claim they're lying about their call count?

When you rarely ever see judges online, yes it's nothing more than a glorified club.

Also Genexwrecker stated they wouldn't hire me as a judge (not because I couldn't pass the exam before you think that's why).

You not seeing judges online doesn't make them a glorified club all by itself. I already mentioned the thousands of calls individual judges have taken, let alone whatever the full total is if you add all of the judges together.

Since you've brought these up though, why is it Genexwrecker says they won't hire you, and have you passed the exam? Put this claim to the test?

Genexwrecker doesn't like my attitude as it wouldn't be fitting for a judge, despite me having the ability to be professional. Which to be fair, I do understand their stance on the matter. Genexwrecker can correct me if I am recalling incorrectly though.

Due to that reason, I have no reason to pass the exam let alone to attempt it.

Sides, I even stated on multiple occasions I wouldn't be a good fit for it anyways, cause I'd have a 0 tolerance policy and would freeze users permanently with extreme prejudice when it comes to rule breaking and would instantly deny all appeals on the matter.

So yeah giving me any kind of power like that, can either be a really bad idea, or if circumstances required it, it'd be a boon.

Wek wrote:

Renji Asuka wrote:

Wek wrote:
You're basing that on what, exactly? Them not doing the schedule you've proposed? The OP already laid out a solution, as did Marshiedemon. Pass the exam, become a judge. You can show us how easy this "1 hour schedule" is.

What was it you said "for change to happen for others, you have to change yourself and also push others to change right?". Get up there and do it, grab a friend if you want to, and show us this hypothetical solution in action. I see judges here that have thousands of calls, you'll see them write it on their profile, for example Genexwrecker claims over 19,000. That's a bit more than a glorified social club, unless you want to claim they're lying about their call count?

When you rarely ever see judges online, yes it's nothing more than a glorified club.

Also Genexwrecker stated they wouldn't hire me as a judge (not because I couldn't pass the exam before you think that's why).

You not seeing judges online doesn't make them a glorified club all by itself. I already mentioned the thousands of calls individual judges have taken, let alone whatever the full total is if you add all of the judges together.

Since you've brought these up though, why is it Genexwrecker says they won't hire you, and have you passed the exam? Put this claim to the test?

They dont qualify for my standards when hiring TOs for the site and those are more forgiving than the standards for a regular judge position but not by much. They show a lot of bias that would interfere in both TO and Judge duties. I also do require that all TOs take the exam and either pass or do well enough for me to consider(if they didnt pass I will ask more of them before any interview takes place).

Renji Asuka wrote:

Wek wrote:

Renji Asuka wrote:When you rarely ever see judges online, yes it's nothing more than a glorified club.

Also Genexwrecker stated they wouldn't hire me as a judge (not because I couldn't pass the exam before you think that's why).

You not seeing judges online doesn't make them a glorified club all by itself. I already mentioned the thousands of calls individual judges have taken, let alone whatever the full total is if you add all of the judges together.

Since you've brought these up though, why is it Genexwrecker says they won't hire you, and have you passed the exam? Put this claim to the test?

Genexwrecker doesn't like my attitude as it wouldn't be fitting for a judge, despite me having the ability to be professional. Which to be fair, I do understand their stance on the matter. Genexwrecker can correct me if I am recalling incorrectly though.

Due to that reason, I have no reason to pass the exam let alone to attempt it.

Sides, I even stated on multiple occasions I wouldn't be a good fit for it anyways, cause I'd have a 0 tolerance policy and would freeze users permanently with extreme prejudice when it comes to rule breaking and would instantly deny all appeals on the matter.

So yeah giving me any kind of power like that, can either be a really bad idea, or if circumstances required it, it'd be a boon.

its more about the bias than the attitude. But hey you never know till you try.

Genexwrecker wrote:

Renji Asuka wrote:

Wek wrote:
You not seeing judges online doesn't make them a glorified club all by itself. I already mentioned the thousands of calls individual judges have taken, let alone whatever the full total is if you add all of the judges together.

Since you've brought these up though, why is it Genexwrecker says they won't hire you, and have you passed the exam? Put this claim to the test?

Genexwrecker doesn't like my attitude as it wouldn't be fitting for a judge, despite me having the ability to be professional. Which to be fair, I do understand their stance on the matter. Genexwrecker can correct me if I am recalling incorrectly though.

Due to that reason, I have no reason to pass the exam let alone to attempt it.

Sides, I even stated on multiple occasions I wouldn't be a good fit for it anyways, cause I'd have a 0 tolerance policy and would freeze users permanently with extreme prejudice when it comes to rule breaking and would instantly deny all appeals on the matter.

So yeah giving me any kind of power like that, can either be a really bad idea, or if circumstances required it, it'd be a boon.

its more about the bias than the attitude. But hey you never know till you try.

Regardless, I recognize that I'm not really suited for stuff like this. I know I can power trip very easily and I rather not be tempted.

Maybe one day I'll take the judge exam just to see how well I'd do, but not until I get my invite to worlds so I can prove to myself that I truly know the ins and outs of the game to an extremely high degree.

Renji Asuka wrote:

Genexwrecker wrote:

Renji Asuka wrote:Or, here's an idea.

Create a schedule for the volunteers.

And yes, even volunteers have to abide by a schedule when they volunteer to do stuff.

Actually you don’t go off somebody else’s schedule when you volunteer. You go off your own. Its volunteer. Aka not something one needs go do and does when they are able to. They volunteer at places and hours that work for them not the owner. The entire point of volunteer is it something extra you do in your free time not someone else’s. Even these so called places that demand volunteer schedules still have people working at only hours the volunteer can work or agree to. Hobbies like this also cannot remotely be compared to an actual volunteer job. Even the owner just does things when they are able and not on a schedule no matter how badly the site may need it.

Actually you do go off someone's schedule when you volunteer.

I volunteered at the church to pass out food each month, guess what? I have to be there by 9 AM to help set everything up and to pass out food as people come early.

I have volunteered to help set up plays, again I had to show up at a certain time.

So this idea that "you don't go off somebody's else's schedule when you volunteer" isn't an actual argument. All you're doing is creating excuses.

DB isnt a church, judge positions are not the same as a food drive that is organized once a month.

If you arent mature enough to talk to your opponent to resolve an issue, or leave the duel when the opponent clearly has no intentions of playing the game, then you should not play ranked.
if someone is cheating, trolling, stalling or otherwise preventing the game from progressing, then leave the duel report the player and move on, that is how you can help with the "judge issue"

ominous wrote:

Renji Asuka wrote:

Genexwrecker wrote:Actually you don’t go off somebody else’s schedule when you volunteer. You go off your own. Its volunteer. Aka not something one needs go do and does when they are able to. They volunteer at places and hours that work for them not the owner. The entire point of volunteer is it something extra you do in your free time not someone else’s. Even these so called places that demand volunteer schedules still have people working at only hours the volunteer can work or agree to. Hobbies like this also cannot remotely be compared to an actual volunteer job. Even the owner just does things when they are able and not on a schedule no matter how badly the site may need it.

Actually you do go off someone's schedule when you volunteer.

I volunteered at the church to pass out food each month, guess what? I have to be there by 9 AM to help set everything up and to pass out food as people come early.

I have volunteered to help set up plays, again I had to show up at a certain time.

So this idea that "you don't go off somebody's else's schedule when you volunteer" isn't an actual argument. All you're doing is creating excuses.

DB isnt a church, judge positions are not the same as a food drive that is organized once a month.

Tell me you don't understand how volunteering works without telling me.

MarshieDemon wrote:

Sound4 wrote:

MarshieDemon wrote:We are always open to hiring more judges, but for obvious reasons we are very selective. Our consideration for someone becoming a judge starts with passing the DB judge exam. We value ruling competence on DB, hence why our judge exam is (intended to be) more difficult than the Konami RC-2 exam.

As mentioned above, DB judges are not paid. This is a hobby to us and, therefore, we have jobs, school, relationships, etc. to keep up with as well. It's also easy to get burnt out really quickly. When starting, it's not unusual for a judge to want to take upwards of 50 judge calls a day every day for a few months, which causes them to then take a long break. That kind of burnout really happens often, especially since judge calls on DB can get a bit more...argumentative compared to judge calls you'd take at a Konami sanctioned event.

You simply don't understand how the players feel. Waiting on a judge for hours without one on. I do understand how the players feel because I am one myself. This is a serious issue on DB that has not been fixed for years. That is simply pathetic and the fact that you are trying to defend that is just sad. There is clearly a flaw within your system and you ignore it.

You can't build a house without builders. You can't run a hospital without doctors. You can't have a criminal justice system without lawyers.

If it was up to me, I'd have a judge online 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. I do not have the judges to do that. I cannot force the judges I do have to work overtime for me for free. I do understand how the players feel because I am one myself. But I cannot magically snap my fingers to get a judge online the second you need one.

The only solution I have is to hire more judges. I do understand how the players feel because I am one myself.

I am going to be honest Marshie. You have so poorly read my post which resulted in a objectively false statement. Let me break it down.

"I cannot force the judges I do have to work overtime for me for free."
Even though you are one of the more active judges I don't see what "overtime" you are talking about. Dealing with a long judge call isn't working "overtime" it is something to be expected doing a judge call and any judge should leave themselves with plenty of free time in case of a long judge call. Like this duel:https://www.duelingbook.com/replay?id=51030049

"I do understand how the players feel because I am one myself"
Marshie Marshie Marshie. Did you read my post? Seriously? I clearly said that the reason you judges would not be able to understand the players feelings is because of your positions on DB. If you were playing a duel on DB you would be able to solve most rulings that may come up because you are a judge. Neither player would not have to be forced to call a judge. So no you will never understand. You being a player as well is irrelevant.

You later on talk about me passing the exam myself to fill the DB "population". Again you clearly didn't read what I said. One person will not change an issue that has been present that years. So what difference would a single person make?

There clearly needs to be a talk with the DB community about how to fix the issue of inactivity of judges. In fact it feels like the issue has gotten worse with there being more judges. Why keep repeating the same thing when it has not worked for years?

MarshieDemon wrote:

Renji Asuka wrote:

Genexwrecker wrote:Actually you don’t go off somebody else’s schedule when you volunteer. You go off your own. Its volunteer. Aka not something one needs go do and does when they are able to. They volunteer at places and hours that work for them not the owner. The entire point of volunteer is it something extra you do in your free time not someone else’s. Even these so called places that demand volunteer schedules still have people working at only hours the volunteer can work or agree to. Hobbies like this also cannot remotely be compared to an actual volunteer job. Even the owner just does things when they are able and not on a schedule no matter how badly the site may need it.

Actually you do go off someone's schedule when you volunteer.

I volunteered at the church to pass out food each month, guess what? I have to be there by 9 AM to help set everything up and to pass out food as people come early.

I have volunteered to help set up plays, again I had to show up at a certain time.

So this idea that "you don't go off somebody's else's schedule when you volunteer" isn't an actual argument. All you're doing is creating excuses.

I'm confused on what argument you think I'm making. If I set up schedules for my volunteer judges, they will leave. It is that simple. And I can't stop them from leaving, because I don't hold any leverage over them...because they are volunteers. And while I let Genexwrecker have SkyFyre13 and Tote as slaves, I don't hold all of them as slaves (for legal reasons, that's a joke).

These aren't excuses. It's reality.

You have not even tried it. How do you know they "will" leave? You have no evidence to support that.

Renji Asuka wrote:

ominous wrote:

Renji Asuka wrote:Actually you do go off someone's schedule when you volunteer.

I volunteered at the church to pass out food each month, guess what? I have to be there by 9 AM to help set everything up and to pass out food as people come early.

I have volunteered to help set up plays, again I had to show up at a certain time.

So this idea that "you don't go off somebody's else's schedule when you volunteer" isn't an actual argument. All you're doing is creating excuses.

DB isnt a church, judge positions are not the same as a food drive that is organized once a month.

Tell me you don't understand how volunteering works without telling me.

Volunteering is offering your time willingly without payment. Youre confusing a judge, the person, with judging, the actual work that they're volunteering to do. Having the ability to do something does not require you to do it, if it did, you would not be volunteering. If you have a problem with the amount of judges take the judge test and volunteer your own time.