"January" Banlist wishlist

[Bystander]

Banned:
SPYRAL Quik-Fix (Not a hard once per turn, still being abused as fuck through the SPYRAL Loop. Time to say bye-bye)
Grinder Golem (Stop the Token Abuse, OCG made a mistake putting this @ 2)
Brilliant Fusion (Gem Knight link confirmed in Exreme Force, RIP Brillaint Fusion engine)
Trickstar Reincarnation (Yeah a single card engine is not a good thing)


Limited:
Droll and Lock Bird (Hand trap that can shut down a single turn is not a good thing)
Firewall Dragon (It is time to ht this card. We are getting a lot of Links out of the next few core sets, it is time to balance things now)
Dragonic Diagram (Still splashable in a lot of decks, gets things going for those decks, and gives them access to a powerful boss monster)
SPYRAL Resort (This card can get the SPYRAL loop going by itself. It was a mistake leaving it off the last list)
Solemn Judgment (This is a pure skill card now. With the way the game has evolved since it was banned, the game is more monster effect dependent. Monster effects are something that Solemn Judgment can't stop. Also with the amount of monsters a deck can now drop per turn, blocking 1 summon/spell/trap may not be enough. Doing so would also put you at more of a disadvantage if you hit the wrong thing)

Semi-limited:
Dark Hole (I get limiting board wipes to help push Links but without these cards these loops into big boards aren't helping the game. This game needs more board wipes).
D.Fissure (Continuous spell that banishes monsters making it much harder for loops to gain foothold)
BTH/Solemn Warning/Torrential Tribute (Any of these cards back @ 2 would help keep monsters off the field and punish your opponents for over extending)
Skill Drain (Blanket effect negation is needed these days to help reign in these loops)

[Zirul]

To add to this list you gave, I'll offer my idea;

Limited:
Grinder Golem (Everyone should know its a stupid card to combo with Akashic Magician)
Blackwing - Gofu the Vague Shadow (Everyone is using this in every deck and we want diversity rather than having a decode talker from this)
Trickstar Reincarnation (To mimic the OCG but also reduce degenerate decks)

Semi Limited:
Solemn Strike (With the upcoming Fairy Structure deck it will make the meta harsh to deal with, reducing this helps)
Maxx "C" (Or unlimited but there is basically no fear these days for maxx c and letting an opponent go positive)

[Silenced]

I want something to happen to Spyrals, probably Quik-Fix and Resort to 1, but the biggest thing that I want is Droll and Lock to 0, because Trickstar Droll Lock is a "skillful" deck.

[Bystander]

To add to this list you gave, I'll offer my idea;

Limited:
Grinder Golem (Everyone should know its a stupid card to combo with Akashic Magician)
Blackwing - Gofu the Vague Shadow (Everyone is using this in every deck and we want diversity rather than having a decode talker from this)
Trickstar Reincarnation (To mimic the OCG but also reduce degenerate decks)

Semi Limited:
Solemn Strike (With the upcoming Fairy Structure deck it will make the meta harsh to deal with, reducing this helps)
Maxx "C" (Or unlimited but there is basically no fear these days for maxx c and letting an opponent go positive)

Konami isn't to going semi Maxx "C" they don't want a single card giving that many pluses to be at more than 1.

Konami has had many chances to hit this card since BOSH's release and both its reprints. If something is going to happen to this card it will be after the structure drops. The only time Konami is ever proactive on this list is dealing with FTK/OTK decks, or a single deck looks to take over the entire game (remember what happened with Pepe decks).


If have seen a lot of people bitching about Grinder Golem, I have also seen a lot of people saying it isn't the problem and there are other cards in that loop that should be hit first. Just remember you are talking about a high level fiend monster that can't be searched and there are lots more link monsters that state you can't use tokens as materials coming out too.

Gofu is interesting card because you need to draw in your opening hand to really make use out of it. Its token generating effect is only useful when you have an open field, which means once you establish a board the other copies of Gofu become dead unless your opponent wipes your board (FYI Dark Hole and Raigeki are at 1 a piece. Kaiju slumber and Torrential tribute are not being run). This for now is a maybe it will, maybe it won't.

I can get behind hits on Trickstars, yeah the trap is one of the cards to get hit. I personally would want the field spell pick up a hit as well.

[AnimeMasterDub]

all of the TrueDracos should be banned

[Bystander]

all of the TrueDracos should be banned

Dude start using pepper more, all that salt is going to raise your blood pressure.


Konami got it right the first time they hit the deck. The only other card I could see getting tagged would be Diagram, I gave my reasons in the OP.

[chaseer]

Most likely in the next banlist, I do expect to see some minor movements, given that we had an emergency banlist very recently.

Banning Terraforming is unfair if you are hitting some of the field spells as well. Its either you Limit both Terraforming and Dragonic Diagram (maybe more?), or ban Dragonic Diagram and leave Terraforming free.

Gofu has already been hit to 1 in the emergency banlist.

y u no hit on Master Peace yet. OCG already Limited it.

The rest looks fine.

[Bystander]

Most likely in the next banlist, I do expect to see some minor movements, given that we had an emergency banlist very recently.

Banning Terraforming is unfair if you are hitting some of the field spells as well. Its either you Limit both Terraforming and Dragonic Diagram (maybe more?), or ban Dragonic Diagram and leave Terraforming free.

Gofu has already been hit to 1 in the emergency banlist.

y u no hit on Master Peace yet. OCG already Limited it.

The rest looks fine.

I only hit Diagram, because it is the only card left in True Dracos that warrants a hit, and is splashable in other decks. Master Peace really isn't the problem in the deck that needs to be reigned in. Not unless you want card of Demise to pick up a semi as well.

I don't see Konami hitting the other field spell searchers. IMO they should to go back to archtype specific monsters that search field spells when they are discarded from the hand.

[Full Cowling]

Ideas:
- Limited/Semi-limited Brilliant Fusion
- Limited/Semi-limited Ash Blossom/Droll and Lock Bird (Lessens reliance on Hand Traps)
- Limited/Semi-limited Scapegoat (Link 4s w/ 1 spell card is not okay.)
- Limited/Banned - Borreload Dragon (Can only be taken off the field by using a card that destroys or returns to hand but doesn't target, a Kaiju, or another Borreload Dragon. If you have none of those you're out of luck.)
- Limited/Banned Crystal Wing Dragon (Same as Borreload but not as bad)

Opinions:
- Keep Quickfix, limit/semi-limit/ban Double Helix
- Semi-limit Terraforming. Or keep it at 3. But not banned. It's not anything absurd.
- I don't see why Cannon Soldier should be banned. Sure it requires a tribute but even w/ Spyrals I can't see it as very abusable.
- Limit Lycoris instead of Reincarnation. This prevents OTKs on turn one due to draw burn and lessens abusability w/ her quick effect on Battle Phase. Also discourages people to use Chain summoning (Chain link 3 or above to activate: 2 extra normal summons...!) in the deck.

[Christen57]

My responses will be in blue.

Still going over the decks of the meta so I will be updating this as I go along. I personally feel that Konami is not going to hit Link Monsters so early. I think we need 1 to 2 more core booster sets and the Vrains link pack to be released in the TCG before Konami would start doing this.

Updated title.

Banned:
Phoenixian Cluster Amaryllis (to stop that FTK loop with the new plant link that is coming out)
Cannon Soldier (There is an FTK SPYRAL loop out there using this card. So unless Konami reprints this with a hard once per turn clause in a OTS pack, like the did with DSF and Catapult Turtle, there is no other way to handle it but ban it)
SPYRAL Quickfix (Loop still exists with it @1, it is gone on the next list)
Terraforming (Obvious that Konami won't be going after searcher field spells, maybe Diagram is the exception. But this make us run that trap instead to slow us down a bit)

Limited:
Dragonic Diagram (still splashable in a lot of decks and gets things going for those decks)
Trickstar Reincarnation (Yeah a single card engine is not a good thing)
Solemn Judgment (This is a pure skill card now. With the way the game has evolved since it was banned, the game is more monster effect dependent. Monster effects are something that Solemn Judgment can't stop. Also with the amount of monsters a deck can now drop per turn, blocking 1 summon/spell/trap may not be enough. Doing so would also put you at more of a disadvantage if you hit the wrong thing)

Semi-limited:
Card of Demise (this card gives consistency to a lot of lower tier decks. However, it is in higher tier decks like True Dracos or Kozmos. Even with the limitations this card puts on the deck it needs to be reigned in)

Phoenixian Cluster Amaryllis (to stop that FTK loop with the new plant link that is coming out) I honestly think alot of cards that allow FTK and OTK should get hit. There is a loop involving this and Topologic Bomber Dragon to keep destroying it and keep reviving it to inflict burn damage. Konami is definetly going to either errata alot of cards so they are once per turn or just ban them to reduce FTK like they did with Grandsoil.
Cannon Soldier (There is an FTK SPYRAL loop out there using this card. So unless Konami reprints this with a hard once per turn clause in a OTS pack, like the did with DSF and Catapult Turtle, there is no other way to handle it but ban it) Not only does this card need to get hit, but also pretty much every other card that lets you tribute infinite monsters to inflict infinite burn damage should either get errata or get hit.
SPYRAL Quickfix (Loop still exists with it @1, it is gone on the next list) I disagree here. I belive that Quick Fix is only an enabler, not the actual main problem. The problem lies in Trigate Wizard, Spiral Gear Drone, and maybe Spiral Sleeper.
Terraforming (Obvious that Konami won't be going after searcher field spells, maybe Diagram is the exception. But this make us run that trap instead to slow us down a bit) This is one that I kinda disagree with. Alot of decks rely on terraforming to search field spells.
I think that the overpowered field spells are the problem and not the card that searches them.

Limited:
Dragonic Diagram (still splashable in a lot of decks and gets things going for those decks) This is not the problem, this is just the enabler. Master Peace The True DracoSlaying King is the problem. That needs to get hit, not this.
Trickstar Reincarnation (Yeah a single card engine is not a good thing) I would rather have Droll Lock Bird and Protector of the Sanctuary get banned so at least then people will not be able to banish your hand and prevent you from drawing new cards.
Solemn Judgment (This is a pure skill card now. With the way the game has evolved since it was banned, the game is more monster effect dependent. Monster effects are something that Solemn Judgment can't stop. Also with the amount of monsters a deck can now drop per turn, blocking 1 summon/spell/trap may not be enough. Doing so would also put you at more of a disadvantage if you hit the wrong thing) I disagree here. Despite the large cost, it still negates almost every card in the game. It is too powerful and generic. Solemn Scolding was designed to be a balanced version of this card. This is even more overpowered with Guiding Ariadne that prevents you from paying life points to activate cards.

To add to this list you gave, I'll offer my idea;

Limited:
Grinder Golem (Everyone should know its a stupid card to combo with Akashic Magician)
Blackwing - Gofu the Vague Shadow (Everyone is using this in every deck and we want diversity rather than having a decode talker from this)
Trickstar Reincarnation (To mimic the OCG but also reduce degenerate decks)
Semi Limited:
Solemn Strike (With the upcoming Fairy Structure deck it will make the meta harsh to deal with, reducing this helps)
Maxx "C" (Or unlimited but there is basically no fear these days for maxx c and letting an opponent go positive)

Semi Limited:
Solemn Strike (With the upcoming Fairy Structure deck it will make the meta harsh to deal with, reducing this helps)
Maxx "C" (Or unlimited but there is basically no fear these days for maxx c and letting an opponent go positive) At this point,
most people agree that maxx c is better off banned. It severly punishes you for playing the game and also punishes you for not playing the game.

Ideas:
- Limited/Semi-limited Brilliant Fusion
- Limited/Semi-limited Ash Blossom/Droll and Lock Bird (Lessens reliance on Hand Traps)
- Limited/Semi-limited Scapegoat (Link 4s w/ 1 spell card is not okay.)
- Limited/Banned - Borreload Dragon (Can only be taken off the field by using a card that destroys or returns to hand but doesn't target, a Kaiju, or another Borreload Dragon. If you have none of those you're out of luck.)
- Limited/Banned Crystal Wing Dragon (Same as Borreload but not as bad)

Opinions:
- Keep Quickfix, limit/semi-limit/ban Double Helix
- Semi-limit Terraforming. Or keep it at 3. But not banned. It's not anything absurd.
- I don't see why Cannon Soldier should be banned. Sure it requires a tribute but even w/ Spyrals I can't see it as very abusable.
- Limit Lycoris instead of Reincarnation. This prevents OTKs on turn one due to draw burn and lessens abusability w/ her quick effect on Battle Phase. Also discourages people to use Chain summoning (Chain link 3 or above to activate: 2 extra normal summons...!) in the deck.

- Limited/Semi-limited Brilliant Fusion
- Limited/Semi-limited Ash Blossom/Droll and Lock Bird (Lessens reliance on Hand Traps)
- Limited/Semi-limited Scapegoat (Link 4s w/ 1 spell card is not okay.)
- Limited/Banned - Borreload Dragon (Can only be taken off the field by using a card that destroys or returns to hand but doesn't target, a Kaiju, or another Borreload Dragon. If you have none of those you're out of luck.)
- Limited/Banned Crystal Wing Dragon (Same as Borreload but not as bad)

I agree with everything here except Borreload Dragon. We need a decent generic Link 4 boss monster and this is all we got.
I think that either the enabler (Scapegoat and Grinder Golem) or the problem (borreload) should get hit but it should not be both.

Opinions:
- Keep Quickfix, limit/semi-limit/ban Double Helix
- Semi-limit Terraforming. Or keep it at 3. But not banned. It's not anything absurd.
- I don't see why Cannon Soldier should be banned. Sure it requires a tribute but even w/ Spyrals I can't see it as very abusable.
- Limit Lycoris instead of Reincarnation. This prevents OTKs on turn one due to draw burn and lessens abusability w/ her quick effect on Battle Phase. Also discourages people to use Chain summoning (Chain link 3 or above to activate: 2 extra normal summons...!) in the deck.

I think that Spiral Quick Fix and Spiral Double Helix are just enablers, they are not the actual problems. The problems are Spiral Gear Drone, Spiral Sleeper, Trigate Wizard, and Spiral Master Plan.
Ultimately, I think Spiral Gear Drone and Spiral Sleeper have to get banned, while Quick Fix could go back to 2. Spiral Gear Drone is somewhat unhealthy for the game as it lets you see your opponents deck and you can control what card your opponent draws during next draw phase and you can make them draw the cards that they do not want to draw. Spiral Sleeper lets you destroy 2 cards during each players turn and you can equip it with spiral gear last resort to keep destroying many cards. Spiral Quick Fix is fine as long as it is not abused with Machine Duplication. Yes, it can search alot of cards and generate pluses, but that is all that Spiral is going to be able to do. At least they will not be able to mess up your next draw or destroy 2 of your cards each turn, so they will still be able to search many cards they just won't be able to mess up the opponents strategy. If Spiral Gear Drone get banned, Spiral will be forced to rely on cards like Ancient Telescope and Convulsion of Nature to see the card on top of opponents deck. If Spiral Sleeper gets banned, Spiral will be forced to rely on other methods of disruption.

[Zirul]

Can we all agree that the recent banlist was good and necessary?

[Ika]

Is banning Links and True Draco and Pendulum Magicians an option? Asking for a friend.

[Bystander]

Scapegoat into links can only be done if you activate it during opponents end phase. Too many players still think they can activate it during their turn and then summon a link monster.

For me a simple rule change where tokens CANNOT be used to summon link monsters would be the best way to avoid any future issues with cards like: Grinder Golem, Scapegoat, or even Gofu. I mean Konami wouldn't start printing Links with you "cannot use tokens" if they weren't thinking about doing this at some point. However, until a rule change happens or we get the archfiend link, I don't see Grinder Golem getting touched. The card is not searchable, which means you need to dig it out of your decks with draw power.

The way I see it with the thing with Terraforming, if Konami keeps putting out searcher spells they need to restrict easy access to them. Banning Terraforming might be severe but look at the OCG. We already picked up a hit on Set Rotation, but to me that hit was more about locking your opponent out of plays than searching out a field spell.

I have seen the SPYRAL loop go off and the card that started it all was the field spell, into Quik-Fix then Drone. With Linkkuriboh coming out as the next Jump promo, it is only going to extend this loop now (probably even the plant FTK one too). The way I see now, kill the enablers, and be done with the loop. These loops are not healthy for the game, and it is taking the strategy out of the game.

As for hand traps, Konami has got to stop creating OP search effects and starting slapping hard once per turn clauses on things. Make the game about strategy again, not who can perform a series of moves first and build insane boards. I mean they knew Quik-fix wasn't a hard once per turn and what was going to happen with it. R&D needs to focus on balancing the cards they create better.


@Zirul: the recent banlist was necessary, but it was like putting a band-aid on a severed arm when it comes to the SPYRAL loop IMO.


@Ika: Link summoning is the mechanic for the current generation, it was meant to slow the game down and stop the extra deck spam. Lot of good that did with all these loops that keep popping up, but I digress. I seriously don't see any link monsters being hit until we get the Vrains set and at least 1-2 more core boosters released in the TCG.
As for True Dracos, Diagram is the card I can see picking up a limit or being banned. True Draco engine can just be the spells and traps. Use Diagram to pop one of the continuous get their graveyard popping effect search out another. Add in Double Cyclone into the mix you could potentially add to its disruption and allow cards like Heritage/Disciples to draw you more cards from your deck. With Terraforming yo can swap out your used Diagram for another one and keep things going.
Pendulum Magicians are basically on the clock IMO. Once the Metalfoes link monster drops, I can see a lot of the pendulum stuff we just got back off the list going back on, and maybe a few more things could join it. With "Master Rule 4" in effect, I much rather have an OP Link with less generic pendulum stuff around.


For me the issue with Maxx "C" is if you let it get in your head, your opponent is going to win. I personally don't give 2 shits if my opponent has it in hand and gets a lot of pluses off my plays. It is a coin flip/roll of a dice if they draw into something that could break the field I build. Bottom line: THIS IS A GAME, there is bound to be a winner and bound to be a loser, you can't expect to win every game in your life no one is that good.


1 thing I noticed is that a lot of the decks in the current meta fail hard to blanket effect negation, and card banishment. Makes you wonder if anyone in Konami is regretting actually limiting the floodgates like Skill Drain and Marcro Cosmos/D.Fissure. I am not saying bring all these cards back, but maybe 1 of them put @2 could be helpful.

[BeansMan]

** Master Peace semi-limited. True Draco has already been hit, but Master Peace always finds himself the centerpiece of decks and allow them to build extremely oppressively just because he can circumvent it. Nothing serious, just something that hurts their consistency and recovery a tiny bit since most of those decks aren't really powerful.
** Candina semi-limited. Trickstars play starters will always be her or their field which probably searches her anyway. Hurts their consistency and recovery(through Lilybell).
** LilyBell semi-limited. Why hit them so much? Because they're a burn based decks; it's hard for those to fall out of relevance(just look at chain burn).
** Predaplant Scorpio semi-limited. Yeah hitting him with Ash screws with him, but this guy is like a variant of Terrortop, just one that summons more bodies & puts mons in the grave. It's not really game breaking and comes with it's disadvantages, but I do think it is one of those generic cards that's just too good to be at three.



** Grinder Golem limited. Powerful card and is practically it's own deck, but can be splashed in as an engine for decks willing to give up Extra Deck space akin to how it was with Zoo. The card is crazy strong, but I don't believe an outright ban is the way to go since it feels like it's own thing. I prefer the classic route of just crippling a deck so much that it may as well be dead. Will no longer be worth dedicating so much space to if you're hardly going to see it, but could still serve as tech for decks that don't care for the Extra Deck anyway. Possibly banned if another deck like True Draco appears.
** Trickstar Reincarnation limited. Searchable card that's not only powerful at being disruptive but can also recover, no hard once per turn or anything. Just begging to be abused.


** Maxx C banned. Having it dropped on your first time could easily translate into a loss. Other handtraps have made this guy even stronger.
** Firewall banned. No explanation needed. Compare the guy to Kirin & notice every part of him is better if you can churn out multiple. Serious loop enabler atop of his disruptive purposes.
** Set Rotation banned. People see trouble in Terraforming, but this searcher can shutdown opponents' field spell possibly leaving them with dead draws. Also allowing for popping the set field spell to plus. The card should just be banned regardless of how likely it is to be seen.



Watch list:

Cynet Universe.
Akashic Magician.
Magician's continuous spell cards.
Grinder Golemn.
Odd-Eyes Revolution Dragon.
Dark Magician the Dragon Knight.
Void Banishment.

[Twisted Soul]

Limited Evenly...that shit is cancerous

[Bystander]

Konami is not going to ban a the signature monster of the lead of the anime. It is still too early to hit any Links at all. I do see it picking up a Limit though, by the end of 2018 it should be on the list.

Since Set Rotation has been limited, how many decks are actually using that one copy of the card?

Evenly Matched needs to stay, the more loops that occur the more the card becomes necessary to balance the game. <-This single card is not as cancerous as Zoodiacs were. FYI - not sure if you know this but Six Sam decks are getting a bunch of support the end of this week. LSS - Shi En can stop this card.

[Bystander]

Updated OP. I think I got a list that could balance and slow the game down a bit.

The reason why I didn't move Maxx "C" is because I don't see Konami giving us any of the draw cards back off the ban list. I rather have the 2 most powerful hand traps limited than gone.

Besides I did bring back a few things to 2 that could help out our situation.

[Andrewolf]

Quik Fix to 0 isn't needed unless SPYRAL's can do something with 1 Quik Fix. Honestly just ban Grinder Golem and Droll & Lock Bird and put Firewall to 1.

[Bystander]

Resort can search Quik-Fix and from there it can be abused repeatedly for its effect.

I have seen the loops after the Sept. ban list, this is how they do it. SPYRALs still take half the field in all tournaments.

[Caymon77]

Limit Ash blossom/droll and lock bird i agree with

Banning the 800 burn plant thing? I also agree with. Puts you at the mercy of your opponent and whatever or not they will let you play Yugioh.

Diagram? Eh, semi-limit I guess? Or just limit Master peace? Idk I don't commonly find decks that uses the engine.

Ban the trickstar trap tho. I don't know what Konami was thinking when they made it.

Keeping Evenly match however? Hell no. Limit or ban it.

Now what about banning or limiting wind-up Hunter and brining back the wind-up carrier?

Tho personally, I want to see Dinos go. Limit level 10 Dino, keep soul raptor, maybe limit or semi limit the fire one. And semi limit the 2 babies Dinos? Idk I just find it unfun when dueling them.