Ideal erratas for every banned card V2

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Christen57
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Ideal erratas for every banned card V2

Post #1 by Christen57 » Mon May 10, 2021 6:05 am

About 1-2 weeks ago, my main computer that I used for making/uploading customs stopped working for good, leaving me stuck with my laptop, so while I wait for the new one ordered from Amazon to arrive, I decided to do another "ideal erratas for every banned card".

Here's the first one. https://forum.duelingbook.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=8464

Also for this one, I will be using the March 15, 2021 banlist. https://archive.ph/qAZzw

Like before, the cards will be listed in alphabetical order, starting with the banned monsters, the banned spells, then the banned traps.


1. Astrograph Sorcerer
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Make it so that the opponent has to be the one to destroy your card by battle or card effect instead of you in order to trigger it's trigger effect.

2. Blackwing - Gofu the Vague Shadow
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Make it so that, after you use it or any of it's tokens as fusion or link material to fusion or link summon a monster, you cannot special summon any more fusion or link monsters for the rest of that turn. That way, you will still be able to make use of it and the tokens, but you cannot spam monsters.

3. Blackwing - Steam the Cloak
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Make it so that you cannot Summon, except "Blackwing" monsters, nor activate monster effects, except "Blackwing" monsters, the turn you activate either of it's effects. That way, you can't abuse this with Crystron Halqifibrax. In fact, a lot of these banned/limited cards could easily come off the banned/limited list if they were just limited to their archetypes.

4. Blaster, Dragon Ruler of Infernos
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Make it so that you can only target Special Summoned Attack Position Effect Monsters with it's destruction effect, instead of just any card on the field.

5. Block Dragon
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Make it so that it can only special summon itself from the hand, and not the graveyard. Remove it's destruction protection effect, and make it so you cannot Summon, except Rock monsters, activate monster effects, except Rock monsters, nor Set cards, the turn you activate it's searching effect.

6. Cyber Jar
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Make it so that it's effect cannot be activate during the Battle Phase, make it so that you cannot conduct your Battle Phase the turn you activate it's effect, and make it so that you cannot Summon from the hand, Extra Deck, or Graveyard the turn you activate it's effect.

7. Dandylion
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Make it so that you also cannot Summon Fusion, Synchro, or Link Monsters the turn you use this card's effect.

8. Destrudo the Lost Dragon's Frisson
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Make it so that it can special summon itself from only the hand, and not also the graveyard, with it's effect, so you can't just dump it to the graveyard with Foolish Burial or something and have easy access to it. Make it so that you cannot Fusion, Xyz, or Link Summon the turn you use it's effect.

9. Djinn Releaser of Rituals
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Change it's entire effect to:
If a player Ritual Summons using this card, while that Ritual Summoned monster is face-up on the field, that player cannot Summon, also the other player must pay 2000 LP to Special Summon from the Extra Deck.

10. Eclipse Wyvern
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Make it so that you cannot Summon, except Level 4 or higher Dragon monsters, activate monster effects, except Level 4 or higher Dragon monsters, nor Set cards, the turn you activate either of this card's effects.

11. Fairy Tail – Snow
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Make it so that it can only target an opponent's Special Summoned Attack Position Effect Monster in it's column with it's effect instead of just any face-up monster. Make it's effect to special summon itself not be a quick effect.

12. Fiber Jar
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Make it so that you cannot inflict any battle or effect damage to your opponent the turn you use it's effect. Make it so that it also shuffles xyz materials and banished cards into the deck.

13. Fishborg Blaster
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Make it so you that cannot Summon, except WATER Fish monsters, activate monster effects, except WATER Fish monsters, nor Set cards, the turn you activate it's effect. Make it so that you need to control a Level 3 or lower "Fishborg" monster specifically, instead of just any Level 3 or lower WATER monster, in order to activate it's effect.

14. Glow-Up Bulb
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Make it so it cannot be used as Fusion, Xyz, or Link Material, and make it so you cannot Summon, except Plant monsters, activate cards or effects, except Plant monsters, nor Set cards, the turn you Summon it.

15. Grinder Golem
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Make it so that you can only special summon it once per turn, and that your opponent gets to pick which of their main monster zones it's summoned to instead of you.

16. Jet Synchron
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Make it so you cannot Summon non-Synchro Monsters the turn you activate either of it's effects, except "Junk" and "Synchron" monsters.

17. Level Eater
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Make it so it has to target Level 7 or higher monsters with it's effect, instead of Level 5 or higher monsters.

18. Lunalight Tiger
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Make it so you cannot Summon, except Level 8 or lower "Lunalight" monsters, nor activate monster effects, except Level 8 or lower "Lunalight" monsters, the turn you activate either it's monster effect or it's pendulum effect.

19. Magical Scientist
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I originally thought that simply increasing the life point cost would be enough, until I discovered a broken combo involving Telekinetic Charging Cell, Reprodocus, and either this card, Gale Dogra, or Cyber-Stein. You activate Reprodocus's effect to make this card Psychic, then equip either this card, Gale Dogra, or Cyber-Stein with Telekinetic Charging Cell to let you use that equipped monster's busted effect an infinite number of times without paying life points. For this monster, I would make it so that you can only special summon level 4 or lower fusion monsters with it instead of level 6 or lower. Instant Fusion already lets you bring out level 5 or lower fusion monsters for free, and that card is limited.

20. Majespecter Unicorn – Kirin
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Make it's activated effect not be a quick effect, so it's still strong but not as abusable.

21. Master Peace, the True Dracoslaying King
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Remove it's immunity to whatever card type matches what was used to tribute summon it.

22. Maxx “C”
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Either limit the amount of cards you can draw with it's effect to less than 5 cards, or make it so that both players get to draw each time the opponent special summons instead of just you.

23. Mecha Phantom Beast O-Lion
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Make it so that you cannot Special Summon from the Deck, Extra Deck, or graveyard the turn you activate either of it's effects, except "Mecha Phantom Beast" monsters.

24. Mind Master
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Make it once per turn, and make it so you cannot Summon, except Psychic monsters, activate monster effects, except LIGHT Psychic monsters, nor Set cards, the turn you activate it's effect.

25. Orcust Harp Horror
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Make it so you cannot Summon, except "Orcust" and "World Legacy" monsters, activate monster effects, except DARK Machine monsters, nor activate Spell/Trap Cards or effects, except "Orcust" Spell/Trap Cards and effects, the turn you activate it's effect.

26. Performage Plushfire
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Make it hard once per turn, and make it so you cannot Summon, except Spellcaster monsters, activate monster effects, except Spellcaster monsters, nor Set cards, the turn you activate either it's monster effect or pendulum effect.

27. Performapal Monkeyboard
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Make it so you can only search level 3 or lower "Performapal" monsters instead of level 4 or lower "Performapal" monsters with it's searching effect, also make it so you cannot Summon the turn you activate said searching effect, except "Performapal" and "Odd-Eyes" monsters.

28. Performapal Skullcrobat Joker
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Make it so you cannot Special Summon from the Deck or GY, activate Trap Cards or effects, nor Set cards, the turn you Summon it.

29. Phoenixian Cluster Amaryllis
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Make it's effect to revive itself hard once per turn.

30. Redox, Dragon Ruler of Boulders
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Make it so you can only target Level 7 EARTH Dragon Effect Monsters with it's effect instead of just any monster.

31. Samsara Lotus
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Make it's effect to revive itself hard once per turn.

32. SPYRAL Master Plan
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Make it so you cannot Summon, except "SPYRAL" monsters, nor activate Spell/Trap Cards or effects, except "SPYRAL" Spell/Trap Cards and effects, the turn you activate either of it's effects.

33. Substitoad
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Make it's effect to special summon hard once per turn.

34. The Tyrant Neptune
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Make it so you can only target monsters that began the Duel in the Main Deck with it's effect. That way you can't target any fusion/synchro/xyz/link monster with this effect, which was why this card was banned.

35. Tidal, Dragon Ruler of Waterfalls
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Make it so you can only send Level 7 WATER Dragon Effect Monsters from the deck to the graveyard with it's effect instead of just any monster.

36. Victory Dragon
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Make it so that, instead of winning the match by attacking directly and reducing the opponent's life points to 0, you can win the duel by inflicting battle damage to your opponent with this card.

37. Yata-Garasu
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Make it so you have to toss a coin and get heads, or roll a six-sided die and get a certain number, to skip the opponent's draw phase. That way you can't just attack infinitely and always skip their draw phase.

38. Elder Entity Norden
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Make it so you cannot activate Spell/Trap Cards or effects, nor Set cards, the turn you activate it's effect.

39. Supreme King Dragon Starving Venom
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Make it so you must control no Spells/Traps to activate and to resolve it's activated effect, and that you cannot activate Normal Spell Cards or effects the turn you activate it's activated effect.

40. Thunder Dragon Colossus
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Make it so it only prevents Traps specifically, instead of just any card, from being searched by the opponent. Being able to block the opponent from adding monsters, spells, and traps is too much.

41. Guardragon Agarpain
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Make it so it requires "Guardragon" Effect Monsters with different Attributes specifically to link summon, instead of just any 2 Dragon monsters. It might still be overpowered with this change, but at least it won't be so splashable.

42. Heavymetalfoes Electrumite
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Make it so it needs "Metalfoes" Pendulum Monsters specifically to link summon instead of just any 2 pendulum monsters.

43. Knightmare Goblin
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Make it so it let's you normal summon only "Knightmare" monsters specifically for the additional normal summon instead of just any monster. Make it so it only protects co-linked "Knightmare" monsters from targeting instead of just any co-linked monsters.

44. Knightmare Mermaid
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Make it so it specifically needs a Normal Summoned "Knightmare" monster for it's link summon instead of just any "Knightmare" monster.

45. Linkross
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Make it so it specifically needs a Link-2 Cyberse monster for it's link summon instead of just any Link-2 or higher monster. That way it can be just like how it was used in the anime, with a link-2 Cyberse monster as material, but still be a lot less splashable and abusable.

46. Summon Sorceress
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Remove it's effect to special summon a monster from the hand to the opponent's zone it points to. Make it so that the monster it special summons from the deck has to have the same name of what it points to, instead of just the same type.

47. Topologic Gumblar Dragon
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Make it so that you cannot activate either of it's effects on the first or second turn of the Duel. That way, you can still technically "hand loop" the opponent, but now they'll at least have a chance to actually play their cards first before you do so. In fact, every currently-banned card that let's you rip cards out of the opponent's hand can be balanced by not allowing players to use said banned cards on the first or second turn of duels.

48. Union Carrier
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Make it so that it requires Level 4 LIGHT Machine monsters specifically to link summon instead of just any 2 monsters with the same type or attribute, and make it so that it can only equip level 4 monsters matching the type or attribute of it's target, instead of just any monster, so that way you can't equip Union Driver (a level 5) to bypass it's restriction of not being able to special summon the equipped monster, Dragon Buster Destruction Sword (a level 1) to lock the opponent out of the extra deck, or Block Dragon (a level 8) to send to the graveyard for free searches.

49. Ancient Fairy Dragon
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Make it so that you can only special summon level 3 or lower LIGHT Effect Monsters from your hand with it's special summoning effect, instead of just any level 4 or lower monster. Make both of it's effects hard once per turn instead of soft once per turn.

50. Denglong, First of the Yang Zing
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Make it so it requires "Yang Zing" Tuner and non-Tuner "Yang Zing" monsters to synchro summon instead of just any tuner and non-tuner monsters. Make it so it doesn't add just any "Yang Zing" card upon being special summoned, and instead only adds "Yang Zing" monsters specifically.

51. Ib the World Chalice Justiciar
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Make it so that you cannot Summon for the rest of the turn after activating either of it's effects, except "World Chalice" and "World Legacy" monsters.

52. Tempest Magician
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Make it so that it can only place spell counters on, and only remove spell counters from, itself, and no other cards, also make each of it's effects a hard once per turn.

53.
Lavalval Chain
M-X-Saber Invoker
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Make these monsters xyz summonable only by using monsters of their respective archetypes, Laval and X-Saber, as material.

54. Number 16: Shock Master
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Make it so that it specifically requires level 4 DARK Spellcaster monsters, like how it was xyz summoned in the anime, instead of just any level 4 monsters. Make it so that you cannot activate other cards or effects, except Normal Spell Cards and effects, nor Set cards, the turn you activate this card's effect.

55. Number 42: Galaxy Tomahawk
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Make it so that, after you special summon those tokens, you cannot Summon for the rest of that turn, except 1 link monster from your extra deck, also make it so that you cannot Summon Ritual, Fusion, or Synchro Monsters the turn you activate it's effect.

56. Number 86: Heroic Champion - Rhongomyniad
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Remove it's "1+: Cannot be destroyed by battle" effect and it's "4+: Your opponent cannot Normal or Special Summon monsters" effect. A monster should not both protect itself from battle and make itself immune to all other card effects.

57. Number 95: Galaxy-Eyes Dark Matter Dragon
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Remove it's "When this card is Xyz Summoned: You can send 3 Dragon-Type monsters with different names from your Deck to the Graveyard; your opponent banishes 3 monsters from their Deck" effect.

58. Number S0: Utopic ZEXAL
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Make it so it's quick effect can only be used during your own turn instead of the opponent's.

59. Outer Entity Azathot
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Make it so it only stops your opponent's monster effects for the rest of the turn if it was xyz summoned during your own turn instead of the opponent's.

60. Salamangreat Miragestallio
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Make it so you cannot Summon, except "Salamangreat" monsters, activate cards or effects, except "Salamangreat" cards and effects, nor Set cards, the turn you activate either of this card's effects.

61. Tellarknight Ptolemaeus
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Make it require level 4 LIGHT monsters specifically, instead of just any level 4 monsters, to xyz summon. Make it so it's quick effect cannot be activated as Chain Link 2 or higher, can only be activated during your opponent's Main Phase, instead of simply "during either player's turn," and that after you use it's quick effect, you cannot activate Quick-Play Spell Cards or effects for the rest of that turn. That way you can't use this card to summon Cyber Dragon Nova then immediately go into Cyber Dragon Infinity that same turn or use a Rank-Up-Magic Quick-Play-Spell.

62. True King of All Calamities
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Make it specifically require level 9 Wyrm monsters to xyz summon instead of just any level 9 monsters. Make it so it only shuts down opponent's monsters with the declared Attribute in it's own column instead of simply "all monsters in your opponent's possession with that Attribute".

63. Wind-Up Carrier Zenmaity
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Make it so you cannot Summon DARK monsters the turn you activate either of it's effects. That way you can't use Wind-Up Hunter with this card to do hand loops.

64. Zoodiac Broadbull
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Make it's search effect only search "Zoodiac" monsters with 800 or less ATK specifically, instead of just any Beast-Warrior monster.

65. Brilliant Fusion
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Make it so you cannot Summon, except "Gem-Knight" monsters, or inflict any effect damage to your opponent, the turn you activate this card.

66.
Butterfly Dagger - Elma
Card of Safe Return
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Make both of these a hard once per turn.

67. Change of Heart
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Make it so you cannot Special Summon the turn you activate this card.

68. Chicken Game
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Make it so that when this card's owner uses it's effect to draw a card, it immediately becomes the End Phase of the turn. That way the opponent will get a chance to use it's drawing effect too.

69. Cold Wave
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Make it so it only stops the opponent's Spell/Traps for 1 turn instead of 2.

70. Confiscation
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Make it so that the opponent must have at least 5 cards in their hand for you to activate this card, that you can only discard from the opponent's hand either monsters with quick effects that activate from the hand, or traps with effects that let themselves be activated from the hand, and that after you discard their card, the opponent can add a spell from their deck or graveyard to their hand.

71. Delinquent Duo
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Make it so that the opponent must have at least 6 cards in their hand for you to activate this spell.

72. Dimension Fusion
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Make it so that you cannot conduct your battle phase, inflict any effect damage to your opponent, or special summon from the deck, extra deck, or graveyard the turn you activate this card.

73. Giant Trunade
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Make it so that this spell will only return your own spells/traps to the hand and not the opponent's.

74. Graceful Charity
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Make it so that after you draw the 3 cards, your opponent gets to look at your hand and chose what you discard instead of you.

75. Heavy Storm
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Make it so that this spell will only destroy your own spells/traps and not the opponent's.

76. Kaiser Colosseum
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Make it so that you need a minimum of 2 monsters, instead of a minimum of 1, for this card to work.

77. Last Will
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Make it so that the monster has to be destroyed by battle and sent to your graveyard for you to use this spell's effect, instead of simply being sent to the graveyard by any means, also make it so that the newly special summoned monster has to have 500 or less ATK instead of 1500 or less.

78. Mass Driver
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Once per turn. Nuff said.

79. Metamorphosis
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Make it so the monster you tribute for this card's cost has to be a flip summoned one, and that you can't summon any EARTH fusion monster with this card's effect, so you can't just bring out The Last Warrior from Another Planet, or Naturia Exterio, and then lock your opponent out of playing the game.

80. Mirage of Nightmare
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I would just change it's entire effect to:
You can draw until you have 4 cards in your hand, but if you do, until the end of the next turn, you cannot Summon, nor activate cards or effects. You can only use this effect of "Mirage of Nightmare" once per turn. You cannot Summon, nor activate monster effects, the turn you activate this effect.

81. Painful Choice
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Make it so that you select 15 cards for your opponent to pick from instead of just 5, and that those 15 cards must have different names from each other so your opponent has a variety of options. Also after the opponent picks the card for you to add to your hand, they should be able to choose whether to banish the remaining 14 cards or send them to the graveyard.

82. Pot of Greed
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Let the opponent draw too, darn it.

83. Premature Burial
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Make it so you pay life points equal to the target's level, rank, or link rating x 1000, instead of just 800 life points, also make it hard once per turn.

84. Sky Striker Mobilize - Engage!
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Make it so that you can only search other "Sky Striker" Normal Spells with this card, instead of being able to search your monsters and quick-play spells too.

85. Smoke Grenade of the Thief
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Make it so it has to be destroyed by a spell/trap effect to trigger it's trigger effect, and that you can't special summon from the deck or extra deck the turn you activate it's trigger effect.

86. Snatch Steal
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Make it so you can't Summon the turn you activate this card.

87. Soul Charge
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Increase the life point cost from 1000 to 2000. Make it so that you also cannot inflict any effect damage to your opponent the turn you activate this card.

88. Spellbook of Judgment
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Make it so that you cannot add any Quick-Play Spells with this card's effect, and that you must specifically special summon a "Spellbook" monster with this card's effect, instead of just any Spellcaster monster.

89. That Grass Looks Greener
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Make it so you cannot Special Summon from the graveyard the turn you activate this card, and that you also cannot special summon from the deck or graveyard until the end of the next turn after activating this card.

90. The Forceful Sentry
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Like Confiscation (#70), this card should be made to get rid of only hand traps, instead of just any card, and also allow the opponent to search for a spell to replace the shuffled card.

91. Last Turn
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I would just change the entire effect to a simple:
Each player can Special Summon 1 monster from their hand or Deck.

92. Return from the Different Dimension
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Make it so this card can only be activated during your main phase, and that you cannot conduct your battle phase, inflict any effect damage to your opponent, or special summon from the deck, extra deck, or graveyard the turn you activate this card.

93. Royal Oppression
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Make it so that this card can only be activated during the Standby Phase while you control no monsters, and that it destroys itself if a monster is Tribute Summoned.

94. Self-Destruct Button
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Make it so you have to toss a coin, and if the result is heads, both players' life points become 0, but if it's tails, you lose the match.

95. Sixth Sense
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Make it so that if the result of your dice roll doesn't match either of the declared numbers, you skip your next N turns, where N = the result. Simply milling cards is hardly a drawback.

96.
Time Seal
Trap Dustshoot
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Make it so that each of these cards require your opponent to have at least 6 cards in their hand for you to activate.

97. Ultimate Offering
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Make it so that you can only use it's effect during the opponent's battle phase, instead of during either your main phase or the opponent's battle phase.

98. Vanity's Emptiness
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Make it so that you can only activate it at the start of your Main Phase 1, and make it so that it also destroys itself if you control another Spell/Trap.

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Post #2 by Renji Asuka » Mon May 10, 2021 9:17 am

Cyber Jar doesn't deserve the errata at all. Its extremely slow and most players would negate it anyways. Though if you want to talk about Empty Jar, that's another story.

The butcher of Vanity's Emptiness is pointless, run over another monster by battle and its gone, destroy another spell/trap its gone. The card was unfair at 1, and 3 was too much, frankly I can see it being fine at 2.

Just not going to bother with the rest tbh.
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Post #3 by james123 » Mon May 10, 2021 9:46 am

Renji Asuka wrote:Cyber Jar doesn't deserve the errata at all. Its extremely slow and most players would negate it anyways. Though if you want to talk about Empty Jar, that's another story.

The butcher of Vanity's Emptiness is pointless, run over another monster by battle and its gone, destroy another spell/trap its gone. The card was unfair at 1, and 3 was too much, frankly I can see it being fine at 2.

Just not going to bother with the rest tbh.

But it's fun!

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Post #4 by Christen57 » Mon May 10, 2021 4:23 pm

Renji Asuka wrote:Cyber Jar doesn't deserve the errata at all. Its extremely slow and most players would negate it anyways. Though if you want to talk about Empty Jar, that's another story.

The butcher of Vanity's Emptiness is pointless, run over another monster by battle and its gone, destroy another spell/trap its gone. The card was unfair at 1, and 3 was too much, frankly I can see it being fine at 2.

Just not going to bother with the rest tbh.


Vanity's Emptiness's 2 major problems was that it could be chained to things that special summon, stopping your opponent mid-combo until they got rid of it, and also that it could be either combined with things like Macro Cosmos that banish stuff instead of sending them to the graveyard, making this card never destroy itself, or combined with Imperial Custom, protecting all Continuous Traps from destruction. Also the activator of Vanity's Emptiness could then turn it off by playing Upstart Goblin or something so that they themselves could special summon again.

The card would be a lot more fair if you weren't allowed to simply chain it to your opponent's stuff on their turn or control any of the other continuous traps I mentioned while it's effect was applying.

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Post #5 by greg503 » Mon May 10, 2021 4:36 pm

These are hardly ideal, for example, "Union" is still nowhere to be found on Union Carrier
Which will come first?
A. CrystalMusic gets banned from DB
B. CrystalMusic blocks every account on DB

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Post #6 by Christen57 » Mon May 10, 2021 5:22 pm

greg503 wrote:These are hardly ideal, for example, "Union" is still nowhere to be found on Union Carrier


As long as it's limited to light machine monsters and can only equip level 4 monsters, I think that's good enough.

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Post #7 by greg503 » Mon May 10, 2021 7:14 pm

Christen57 wrote:
greg503 wrote:These are hardly ideal, for example, "Union" is still nowhere to be found on Union Carrier


As long as it's limited to light machine monsters and can only equip level 4 monsters, I think that's good enough.

Limiting it to Unions as a whole does the same
Which will come first?
A. CrystalMusic gets banned from DB
B. CrystalMusic blocks every account on DB

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Post #8 by bobbynit » Mon May 17, 2021 4:37 am

erratas are dumb. konomi will just release new cards that are stronger than the original version eventually anyway. also most cards that get a errata and come off the banlist arent good anymore or used in the meta due to whatever made the card good being taken away.

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Post #9 by greg503 » Mon May 17, 2021 2:03 pm

bobbynit wrote:erratas are dumb. konomi will just release new cards that are stronger than the original version eventually anyway. also most cards that get a errata and come off the banlist arent good anymore or used in the meta due to whatever made the card good being taken away.

Time Seal was never good since MR3
Which will come first?
A. CrystalMusic gets banned from DB
B. CrystalMusic blocks every account on DB

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Post #10 by greg503 » Mon May 17, 2021 2:19 pm

The theme for most of these is "make it unplayable," with a few obvious ones like Elma, but sometimes it's that obvious fix plus more restrictions. Why does Mind Master need more than a Once per turn?
Which will come first?
A. CrystalMusic gets banned from DB
B. CrystalMusic blocks every account on DB

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Post #11 by Christen57 » Mon May 17, 2021 6:27 pm

bobbynit wrote:erratas are dumb. konomi will just release new cards that are stronger than the original version eventually anyway. also most cards that get a errata and come off the banlist arent good anymore or used in the meta due to whatever made the card good being taken away.


That's why konami can't go overboard with erratas. I think limiting Disk Commander to once per turn would have been enough, but they went further and made it once per duel.

greg503 wrote:The theme for most of these is "make it unplayable," with a few obvious ones like Elma, but sometimes it's that obvious fix plus more restrictions. Why does Mind Master need more than a Once per turn?


Effects that let you special summon from the deck for free tend to be abused, even when they are just hard once per turn and do things like negate the effects of whatever its summons, like how Halqifibrax blocks the effects of whatever it summons from activating and is hard once per turn, but Halqifibrax is still abused.

Mind Master needs to not be splashable in any deck, and instead should be limited to a specific type/attribute/archetype so it isn't as abused as something like Halqifibrax or Cyber-Stein. Banned cards like Ib the World Chalice Justiciar, Denglong, Rhongomyniad, Lavalval Chain, Electrumite, and M-X-Saber Invoker would not be banned if they were just limited to their respective archetypes.

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Post #12 by Neo_Fire_Sonic » Thu May 20, 2021 4:07 pm

lol do you know why dragon rulers were banned in the first place, those effects you "errated" weren't the reason at all
b

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Post #13 by Renji Asuka » Fri May 21, 2021 3:46 am

Christen57 wrote:
Renji Asuka wrote:Cyber Jar doesn't deserve the errata at all. Its extremely slow and most players would negate it anyways. Though if you want to talk about Empty Jar, that's another story.

The butcher of Vanity's Emptiness is pointless, run over another monster by battle and its gone, destroy another spell/trap its gone. The card was unfair at 1, and 3 was too much, frankly I can see it being fine at 2.

Just not going to bother with the rest tbh.


Vanity's Emptiness's 2 major problems was that it could be chained to things that special summon, stopping your opponent mid-combo until they got rid of it, and also that it could be either combined with things like Macro Cosmos that banish stuff instead of sending them to the graveyard, making this card never destroy itself, or combined with Imperial Custom, protecting all Continuous Traps from destruction. Also the activator of Vanity's Emptiness could then turn it off by playing Upstart Goblin or something so that they themselves could special summon again.

The card would be a lot more fair if you weren't allowed to simply chain it to your opponent's stuff on their turn or control any of the other continuous traps I mentioned while it's effect was applying.

Yes, traps are designed to be chained to. Its no different than a Solemn Warning (in response to negating something that special summons), also when Vanity's Emptiness was running around at 3, no one combined it with Imperial Custom, so that's a non argument.

Now if you want to argue about Macro Cosmos, only anti-meta decks did that. Meta decks didn't.

Then you want to talk about upstart and vanity's, the problem there is, people typically already played their Upstart Goblin, they also had already made their ending board where they don't need to special summon.

I seen players complain about Vanity's Emptiness a long time ago, and quite often it boiled down to "I don't want to run any outs!" in terms of spell/trap removal, despite it being the easiest trap to remove in the game.
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Post #14 by Christen57 » Fri May 21, 2021 4:00 am

Renji Asuka wrote:
Christen57 wrote:
Renji Asuka wrote:Cyber Jar doesn't deserve the errata at all. Its extremely slow and most players would negate it anyways. Though if you want to talk about Empty Jar, that's another story.

The butcher of Vanity's Emptiness is pointless, run over another monster by battle and its gone, destroy another spell/trap its gone. The card was unfair at 1, and 3 was too much, frankly I can see it being fine at 2.

Just not going to bother with the rest tbh.


Vanity's Emptiness's 2 major problems was that it could be chained to things that special summon, stopping your opponent mid-combo until they got rid of it, and also that it could be either combined with things like Macro Cosmos that banish stuff instead of sending them to the graveyard, making this card never destroy itself, or combined with Imperial Custom, protecting all Continuous Traps from destruction. Also the activator of Vanity's Emptiness could then turn it off by playing Upstart Goblin or something so that they themselves could special summon again.

The card would be a lot more fair if you weren't allowed to simply chain it to your opponent's stuff on their turn or control any of the other continuous traps I mentioned while it's effect was applying.

Yes, traps are designed to be chained to. Its no different than a Solemn Warning (in response to negating something that special summons), also when Vanity's Emptiness was running around at 3, no one combined it with Imperial Custom, so that's a non argument.

Now if you want to argue about Macro Cosmos, only anti-meta decks did that. Meta decks didn't.

Then you want to talk about upstart and vanity's, the problem there is, people typically already played their Upstart Goblin, they also had already made their ending board where they don't need to special summon.

I seen players complain about Vanity's Emptiness a long time ago, and quite often it boiled down to "I don't want to run any outs!" in terms of spell/trap removal, despite it being the easiest trap to remove in the game.


Not every card is going to be healthy for the game just because some outs to it exist. Also some cards that were okay a long time ago may not still be okay today, and vice versa. Traps shouldn't be able to lock the opponent out of special summoning anything and be able to be used right after you've done all your special summoning.

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Post #15 by Christen57 » Fri May 21, 2021 4:02 am

Neo_Fire_Sonic wrote:lol do you know why dragon rulers were banned in the first place, those effects you "errated" weren't the reason at all


I don't think it was any 1 specific dragon ruler effect that make them too strong. I think it was all 3 effects of each monster combined that made them too strong. If 1 or 2 of each of those dragon rulers' effects were nerfed they would be much more fair.

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Post #16 by Renji Asuka » Fri May 21, 2021 8:50 am

Christen57 wrote:
Renji Asuka wrote:
Christen57 wrote:
Vanity's Emptiness's 2 major problems was that it could be chained to things that special summon, stopping your opponent mid-combo until they got rid of it, and also that it could be either combined with things like Macro Cosmos that banish stuff instead of sending them to the graveyard, making this card never destroy itself, or combined with Imperial Custom, protecting all Continuous Traps from destruction. Also the activator of Vanity's Emptiness could then turn it off by playing Upstart Goblin or something so that they themselves could special summon again.

The card would be a lot more fair if you weren't allowed to simply chain it to your opponent's stuff on their turn or control any of the other continuous traps I mentioned while it's effect was applying.

Yes, traps are designed to be chained to. Its no different than a Solemn Warning (in response to negating something that special summons), also when Vanity's Emptiness was running around at 3, no one combined it with Imperial Custom, so that's a non argument.

Now if you want to argue about Macro Cosmos, only anti-meta decks did that. Meta decks didn't.

Then you want to talk about upstart and vanity's, the problem there is, people typically already played their Upstart Goblin, they also had already made their ending board where they don't need to special summon.

I seen players complain about Vanity's Emptiness a long time ago, and quite often it boiled down to "I don't want to run any outs!" in terms of spell/trap removal, despite it being the easiest trap to remove in the game.


Not every card is going to be healthy for the game just because some outs to it exist. Also some cards that were okay a long time ago may not still be okay today, and vice versa. Traps shouldn't be able to lock the opponent out of special summoning anything and be able to be used right after you've done all your special summoning.

The problem is, the outs are literally built into the card. If there is a card that is a huge threat to your deck, would you not run an out to it? Even if that out is in the side deck at the very least?
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Post #17 by greg503 » Fri May 21, 2021 1:00 pm

Renji Asuka wrote:
Christen57 wrote:
Renji Asuka wrote:Yes, traps are designed to be chained to. Its no different than a Solemn Warning (in response to negating something that special summons), also when Vanity's Emptiness was running around at 3, no one combined it with Imperial Custom, so that's a non argument.

Now if you want to argue about Macro Cosmos, only anti-meta decks did that. Meta decks didn't.

Then you want to talk about upstart and vanity's, the problem there is, people typically already played their Upstart Goblin, they also had already made their ending board where they don't need to special summon.

I seen players complain about Vanity's Emptiness a long time ago, and quite often it boiled down to "I don't want to run any outs!" in terms of spell/trap removal, despite it being the easiest trap to remove in the game.


Not every card is going to be healthy for the game just because some outs to it exist. Also some cards that were okay a long time ago may not still be okay today, and vice versa. Traps shouldn't be able to lock the opponent out of special summoning anything and be able to be used right after you've done all your special summoning.

The problem is, the outs are literally built into the card. If there is a card that is a huge threat to your deck, would you not run an out to it? Even if that out is in the side deck at the very least?

I don't know, do you run an out to Mystic Mine? Also, Emptiness owner can get rid of it for "free" so that it only affected the opponent
Which will come first?
A. CrystalMusic gets banned from DB
B. CrystalMusic blocks every account on DB

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Post #18 by Renji Asuka » Fri May 21, 2021 2:38 pm

greg503 wrote:
Renji Asuka wrote:
Christen57 wrote:
Not every card is going to be healthy for the game just because some outs to it exist. Also some cards that were okay a long time ago may not still be okay today, and vice versa. Traps shouldn't be able to lock the opponent out of special summoning anything and be able to be used right after you've done all your special summoning.

The problem is, the outs are literally built into the card. If there is a card that is a huge threat to your deck, would you not run an out to it? Even if that out is in the side deck at the very least?

I don't know, do you run an out to Mystic Mine? Also, Emptiness owner can get rid of it for "free" so that it only affected the opponent

That depends, is Mystic Mine relevant? For me, I haven't seen it be played since the deck was hit, so no, I don't worry about non issues.

On the other hand, I still technically do run outs (Lightning Storm, Harpie's Feather Duster for example), to deal with other things that just happens to work against Mystic Mine IF it came up.
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Post #19 by Neo_Fire_Sonic » Fri May 21, 2021 4:43 pm

Christen57 wrote:
Neo_Fire_Sonic wrote:lol do you know why dragon rulers were banned in the first place, those effects you "errated" weren't the reason at all


I don't think it was any 1 specific dragon ruler effect that make them too strong. I think it was all 3 effects of each monster combined that made them too strong. If 1 or 2 of each of those dragon rulers' effects were nerfed they would be much more fair.


Once again, none of their effects you touched were the reason they are on the list. Maybe this will tell you something, NO ONE USED THOSE EFFECTS.
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Post #20 by PMDGrovyle » Mon Jun 07, 2021 3:46 am

I Agree with some of these as for shock master I think instead of spellcasters you can honestly go with 3 light monsters to Xyz it so it will be played just not heavily over something like Starliege Paladynamo Also maybe for the trap Dust shoot etc. you can make it a LP cost or be unable to activate other Trap or spellcards during that same turn. I agree painful choice can go with a similar ruling but maybe make it 10 with 15 no one will play it probably I also Disagree unbanning Heavy storm & Destrudo for that said effect Also For Maxx C just put in however many cards you draw is Discarded at the end of the turn And yeah Not sure about the rest Probably not victory dragon or neptune


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