Superheavy Samurai Battleball

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Zirul
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Superheavy Samurai Battleball

Post #1 by Zirul » Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:33 pm

Recently joined this forum so please don't expect high quality posts like the "Duelist Alliance FAQ" which are detailed and well done so thanks for that. As suggested in the title, this is about an odd card in a underwhelming archetype.

Dark Machine monster, Level 2 tuner and the following effect;

If all monsters you control are "Superheavy Samurai" monsters, and you have no Spell/Trap Cards in your Graveyard: You can target 1 face-up monster your opponent controls that has a Level; send both it and this card from the field to the Graveyard, then Special Summon from your Extra Deck 1 "Superheavy Samurai" Synchro Monster whose Level equals the total original Levels of those 2 monsters in the Graveyard. (This Special Summon is treated as a Synchro Summon.) You can only use this effect of "Superheavy Samurai Battleball" once per turn.

The best part about it is the ability to use your opponent's monster as a target and summon Susanowo (If targeting a lvl 8 non pendulum) but recently a local judge re examined the card's effect during a match. The ruling he placed was it needed to target an appropriate monster for the synchro summon normally, target with its effect and send the target and tuner to the graveyard. Finally, the Synchro monster is summoned. I went to another judge and gave the same example and scenario as before, the second judge agreed with the first. It does not say "Ignoring summoning Conditions" as a first statement, secondly Eccentric Boy was referenced for the resolution of a monster effect involving a synchro summon.

I talked it out with the first judge step by step on the side while a tournament was going on to discuss more about this issue since I've never been said I was wrong before because another judge said it was fine 2x before (Probably one of those IRL judges that do half their job as friends say), I was slightly annoyed that Konami didn't word the card a little better to alleviate this problem but I looked at it from the judge's perspective and agreed on it.

With people experienced with rulings, Do you find this fair? Is the ruling okay? Do other judges here Agree/Disagree? No more Kaiju+Battleball combos, Not even the Steam Train king can be summoned with battleball since it requires 2 or more non tuner Superheavy.

srn347
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Post #2 by srn347 » Sat Nov 11, 2017 7:50 pm

The monsters sent do not need to be appropriate materials for the monster, they only need the original levels to add up to its level (as stated in the card text). In fact, the monsters sent are not considered synchro materials (the summon is treated as a synchro summon, albeit one without materials). You do not need to ignore summoning conditions to summon synchro monsters from the extra deck that lack a summon restriction in their text (e.g. starlight road doesn't say "ignoring the summoning conditions").

Edit: To be clear, you do need a monster that you can summon off of the effect in order to activate it.

Zirul
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Post #3 by Zirul » Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:17 am

That's why I started this to get different opinions and hopefully people to help out on this. I had 2 judges say that it should be properly synchro summoned but what you stated above was my side of the discussion to them. Though the part about Starlight road is important to note as its been reprinted but never said Ignoring summoning Conditions. Thanks for the input.

I'll speak to the first judge again and discuss on it while its not busy. The biggest issue is how people read the cards and how the card is typed by Konami. If there was more effort to put in better wording, it would be easier to understand. But the level 5 Superheavy Synchro is completely legal due to it being completely generic in either case.

Zirul
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Post #4 by Zirul » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:39 am

Finally found a secure ruling about the card from the Japanese Yugioh website.

https://www.db.yugioh-card.com/yugiohdb ... rd=&tag=-1

Its a very rough translation from japanese to english but the final statement on the bottom says;

Therefore, the opponent's field monster that is the target of the " super heavy samurai Tama-C " effect never has to be a monster named "super heavy samurai".

Shugunou
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Post #5 by Shugunou » Sun May 10, 2020 1:47 pm

SRN is correct. It doesn't say to ignore conditions but it also doesn't say that the cards are materials, nor does it say what the required monsters must be, only which side of the field they must be. I see why the judge may have made this mistake as it is worded similar to the way the rulebook words synchro summoning, but it is different.

Renji Asuka
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Post #6 by Renji Asuka » Sun May 10, 2020 2:15 pm

Shugunou wrote:SRN is correct. It doesn't say to ignore conditions but it also doesn't say that the cards are materials, nor does it say what the required monsters must be, only which side of the field they must be. I see why the judge may have made this mistake as it is worded similar to the way the rulebook words synchro summoning, but it is different.

Why did you decide to bring a thread back from 2017 when the discussion was over with?
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Shugunou
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Post #7 by Shugunou » Sun Jun 07, 2020 8:44 am

I don't know. I didn't read the date but it did not say that it was over.


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