Edison Rulings

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Lonzo Ball
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Edison Rulings

Post #1 by Lonzo Ball » Thu Jul 25, 2024 3:51 am

Hello. I have several questions that I am wondering how they would be ruled on Dueling Book's Edison rated ladder. Thank you!

1. Player A activates "Brain Control," targeting Player B's "Sangan." Player A tributes the "Sangan" to tribute summon "Caius the Shadow Monarch."
In which order do the two trigger effects activate?

2. Player A controls "The Six Samurai - Zanji," equipped with "Spirit of the Six Samurai." Player B summons "Judgment Dragon" and pays 1000 life points to activate its effect. Are both "The Six Samurai - Zanji" and "Spirit of the Six Samurai" destroyed?

3. Player A controls "Machina Fortress," equipped with "Machina Gearframe." Player B summons "Judgment Dragon" and pays 1000 life points to activate its effect. Are both "Machina Fortress" and "Machina Gearframe" destroyed?

4. Player A activates the effect of "Machina Peacekeeper," targeting "Machina Fortress." Player B activates "Raigeki Break," targeting "Machina Fortress." Is "Machina Peacekeeper" sent to the GY? If so, can its trigger effect activate?

5. Player A controls "Rivalry of the Warlords." Player B controls "Trent." Can Player B tribute "Trent" to tribute summon "Caius the Shadow Monarch"?

6. Player A controls "Consecrated Light." Can Player A tribute "Consecrated Light" to tribute summon "Caius the Shadow Monarch"?

7. Player A controls a "Trent" and a face-down "D.D. Warrior Lady." Player B controls "Rivalry of the Warlords" and a face-up "Sangan." Player B attacks Player A's face-down "D.D. Warrior Lady" with "Sangan." Can Warrior Lady's effect activate?

8. Player A controls "Trent" and "Machina Peacekeeper." Player B activates "Rivalry of the Warlords." Player A sends Peacekeeper to the GY. Can Peacekeeper's effect activate?

9. Player A controls "Macro Cosmos." Player B activates the effect of "Gallis the Star Beast" and banishes "Trent" from the top of his deck. Will B take damage, and will Gallis be summoned?

Gnore
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Post #2 by Gnore » Thu Jul 25, 2024 1:50 pm

1. CL1 is player A's mandatory trigger Caius, CL2 is player B's mandatory trigger Sangan. Each player's triggers activate in the order they were triggered.
2. Yes.
3. Yes.
4. IDK exactly when the goat ruling for TER was changed. Either way, Peacekeeper would miss timing since Raigeki Break was CL2.
5. As long as Trent was the only monster they controlled.
6. No. You may tribute set him.
7. Since DDWL triggers in the same chain as flip effects, she should be able to activate since they are ruled to still be able to activate in that case.
8. Since Rivalry sends instead of destroying, Peacekeeper cannot activate. If Peacekeeper is destroyed by Kotodama, it should be able to activate.
9. The edisonformat.com ruling says Gallis will "resolve normally". Tthis aligns with the modern ruling, which explicitly says you still burn & special summon.

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Post #3 by Genexwrecker » Thu Jul 25, 2024 2:28 pm

Gnore wrote:1. CL1 is player A's mandatory trigger Caius, CL2 is player B's mandatory trigger Sangan. Each player's triggers activate in the order they were triggered.
2. Yes.
3. Yes.
4. IDK exactly when the goat ruling for TER was changed. Either way, Peacekeeper would miss timing since Raigeki Break was CL2.
5. As long as Trent was the only monster they controlled.
6. No. You may tribute set him.
7. Since DDWL triggers in the same chain as flip effects, she should be able to activate since they are ruled to still be able to activate in that case.
8. Since Rivalry sends instead of destroying, Peacekeeper cannot activate. If Peacekeeper is destroyed by Kotodama, it should be able to activate.
9. The edisonformat.com ruling says Gallis will "resolve normally". Tthis aligns with the modern ruling, which explicitly says you still burn & special summon.
you can actually tribute summon a dark using consecrated light. Same for last warrior and gozen match.
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Lonzo Ball
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Post #4 by Lonzo Ball » Thu Jul 25, 2024 4:33 pm

Gnore wrote:1. CL1 is player A's mandatory trigger Caius, CL2 is player B's mandatory trigger Sangan. Each player's triggers activate in the order they were triggered.
2. Yes.
3. Yes.
4. IDK exactly when the goat ruling for TER was changed. Either way, Peacekeeper would miss timing since Raigeki Break was CL2.
5. As long as Trent was the only monster they controlled.
6. No. You may tribute set him.
7. Since DDWL triggers in the same chain as flip effects, she should be able to activate since they are ruled to still be able to activate in that case.
8. Since Rivalry sends instead of destroying, Peacekeeper cannot activate. If Peacekeeper is destroyed by Kotodama, it should be able to activate.
9. The edisonformat.com ruling says Gallis will "resolve normally". Tthis aligns with the modern ruling, which explicitly says you still burn & special summon.


Thanks for the response! Are you a DB judge? The reason I ask is because most of the situations had conflicting rulings or ruling reversals. Some of these situations have an Upper Deck ruling but also a conflicting OCG ruling from that time period. At the time of SJC Edison, UDE had already lost power of the TCG to Konami, so I want to know what DB's stance is on these situations. If there exists an old UDE ruling, do we always follow that on DB?

For example:

2&3. UDE had a ruling for "Spirit of the Six Samurai," stating that if an effect would destroy both Spirit and the equipped monster at the same time, both cards are destroyed. The OCG at the time had a ruling (for a different union monster, I believe) stating that the equipped monster is not destroyed. Old forum posts don't seem to agree on a consensus.

4. There is no timing issue. Raigeki Break resolves, destroying Fortress. Then Peacekeeper resolves and destroys (?) itself.
In the past, the union monsters would be destroyed if there is no target to equip to. In modern yugioh, the union is sent to the GY and is not considered destroyed.

5. UDE had a ruling for Rivalry, stating you can do this, but Konami-TCG published an article in 2011 stating that you cannot. I am unsure what the OCG stance was.

6. The old UDE ruling for "The Last Warrior From Another Planet" indicates that you may tribute Last Warrior for a tribute summon, but some claim that it was an outdated ruling.

7. The UDE ruling indicates this, yes, and I believe that is correct for the time of Edison, but in modern yugioh, it would not be able to activate.

8. Similar to 4., in the past, the monsters were considered destroyed, as indicated by this UDE ruling:
"If 'Rivalry of Warlords' is active and you take control of your opponent's face-up monster with 'Change of Heart' or 'Snatch Steal', and that monster is a different Type than your other face-up monster(s), your opponent's monster is destroyed."

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Post #5 by Lonzo Ball » Thu Jul 25, 2024 4:42 pm

I actually have one more question.

10. Can the effect of "Lord British Space Fighter" be used to attack more than 2 monsters, given that it has destroyed each prior one by battle?
A Yugiohblog post from YCS DC 2010 (the event after SJC Edison) claims that you can

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Post #6 by Genexwrecker » Thu Jul 25, 2024 5:14 pm

Lonzo Ball wrote:I actually have one more question.

10. Can the effect of "Lord British Space Fighter" be used to attack more than 2 monsters, given that it has destroyed each prior one by battle?
A Yugiohblog post from YCS DC 2010 (the event after SJC Edison) claims that you can

Ur asking if the effect can activate more than once?
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Lonzo Ball
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Post #7 by Lonzo Ball » Thu Jul 25, 2024 5:35 pm

Genexwrecker wrote:
Lonzo Ball wrote:I actually have one more question.

10. Can the effect of "Lord British Space Fighter" be used to attack more than 2 monsters, given that it has destroyed each prior one by battle?
A Yugiohblog post from YCS DC 2010 (the event after SJC Edison) claims that you can

Ur asking if the effect can activate more than once?


Yeah. It definitely can't now, but at the time it seemed to be able to activate multiple times

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Post #8 by Genexwrecker » Thu Jul 25, 2024 8:09 pm

Lonzo Ball wrote:
Genexwrecker wrote:
Lonzo Ball wrote:I actually have one more question.

10. Can the effect of "Lord British Space Fighter" be used to attack more than 2 monsters, given that it has destroyed each prior one by battle?
A Yugiohblog post from YCS DC 2010 (the event after SJC Edison) claims that you can

Ur asking if the effect can activate more than once?


Yeah. It definitely can't now, but at the time it seemed to be able to activate multiple times

It never could it was ruled that at some event. It is currently a precedent.
Last edited by Genexwrecker on Fri Jul 26, 2024 9:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #9 by Lonzo Ball » Fri Jul 26, 2024 12:11 am

Possibly two events, he was featured on the written cover at both the SJC right before Edison and the YCS right after, but we're not sure either of those head judges even made that rulings or how it was ruled at SJC Edison

For retro formats, we go off how it was ruled at an event, not how it should have been ruled, so that's why I'm asking

That's also why we have rulings like Quickdraw Synchron being considered an ignition effect for Edison format, and Castor/Pollux being able to be negated by Effect Veiler in YCS Meadowlands format, etc.

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Post #10 by Genexwrecker » Fri Jul 26, 2024 4:31 am

Lonzo Ball wrote:Possibly two events, he was featured on the written cover at both the SJC right before Edison and the YCS right after, but we're not sure either of those head judges even made that rulings or how it was ruled at SJC Edison

For retro formats, we go off how it was ruled at an event, not how it should have been ruled, so that's why I'm asking

That's also why we have rulings like Quickdraw Synchron being considered an ignition effect for Edison format, and Castor/Pollux being able to be negated by Effect Veiler in YCS Meadowlands format, etc.

It goes off community consensus of how it was consistently ruled. British can currently attack infinitely for edison. Other cards that have similar effects cannot.
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lovela
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Post #11 by lovela » Mon Aug 05, 2024 8:16 pm

Lonzo Ball wrote:Hello. I have several questions that I am wondering how they would be ruled on Dueling Book's Edison rated ladder. Thank you!

1. Player A activates "Brain Control," targeting Player B's "Sangan." Player A tributes the "Sangan" to tribute summon "Caius the Shadow Monarch."
In which order do the two trigger effects activate?

2. Player A controls "The Six Samurai - Zanji," equipped with "Spirit of the Six Samurai." Player B summons "Judgment Dragon" and pays 1000 life points to activate its effect. Are both "The Six Samurai - Zanji" and "Spirit of the Six Samurai" destroyed?

3. Player A controls "Machina Fortress," equipped with "Machina Gearframe." Player B summons "Judgment Dragon" and pays 1000 life points to activate its effect. Are both "Machina Fortress" and "Machina Gearframe" destroyed?

4. Player A activates the effect of "Machina Peacekeeper," targeting "Machina Fortress." Player B activates "Raigeki Break," targeting "Machina Fortress." Is "Machina Peacekeeper" sent to the GY? If so, can its trigger effect activate?

5. Player A controls "Rivalry of the Warlords." Player B controls "Trent." Can Player B tribute "Trent" to tribute summon "Caius the Shadow Monarch"?

6. Player A controls "Consecrated Light." Can Player A tribute "Consecrated Light" to tribute summon "Caius the Shadow Monarch"?

7. Player A controls a "Trent" and a face-down "D.D. Warrior Lady." Player B controls "Rivalry of the Warlords" and a face-up "Sangan." Player B attacks Player A's face-down "D.D. Warrior Lady" with "Sangan." Can Warrior Lady's effect activate?

8. Player A controls "Trent" and "Machina Peacekeeper." Player B activates "Rivalry of the Warlords." Player A sends Peacekeeper to the GY. Can Peacekeeper's effect activate?

9. Player A controls "Macro Cosmos." Player B activates the effect of "Gallis the Star Beast" and banishes "Trent" from the top of his deck. Will B take damage, and will Gallis be summoned?


Some issues with the first reply to this post.

1) CL1 Sangan, CL2 Caius. (This ruling is incorrectly said to be the opposite on Edisonformat.com's website, the site owner is not around to fix this error. for the future, refer to edisonformat.net for updated rulings)
2) yes
3) yes (2 and 3 were indeed different in the OCG at the time, but we have confirmation it was ruled as they were both destroyed at SJC Edison, and by Konami email a couple of months afterward)
4) Yes, Fortress is destroyed @CL2. Peacekeeper is destroyed by game mechanics while trying to resolve it's effect @CL1 and will trigger. (Note that during the OCG it was "sent" at this time)
5) yes
6) It is generally ruled the same as Rivarly and Last Warrior, yes. But ask your judge to be sure
7) Currently looking into this, the answer seems yes in the OCG at the time. Haven't found a sure source for the TCG at the time, although people were discussing it around the time of Edison
8) No, the initial activation of Rivarly "sends". (but note that during this time, monsters that later become illegal under Rivarly are considered to be destroyed by game mechanics in the TCG, "sent" in the OCG)
9) Yes it will still burn. Note that in the modern TCG it will currently not burn, per it's PSCT. But it will in the OCG
10) It has been decided that Lord British can attack multiple times. But the source is weak, people back then knew it should not work like this. This may change in the future


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