Morphtronic disaster

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greg503
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Morphtronic disaster

Post #1 by greg503 » Tue Jun 21, 2022 2:49 pm

I use Celfon to summon Smartfon, then use Smartfon to add Telefon, normal Telefon, make Halq with Smartfon and Celfon, then use Telefon to bring back Smartfon because I need yet another Tuner. Why is this illegal?
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Post #2 by Lil Oldman » Tue Jun 21, 2022 4:12 pm

Smartfon must first be Special Summoned by banishing a Morphtronic from GY, it was also not properly summoned.
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Post #3 by greg503 » Tue Jun 21, 2022 5:51 pm

Now, would it be a legal play if Telefon had the same "ignoring summoning conditions" clause that Celfon has?
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Post #4 by Ir0n » Tue Jun 21, 2022 6:05 pm

greg503 wrote:Now, would it be a legal play if Telefon had the same "ignoring summoning conditions" clause that Celfon has?


Probably not. There is a similar case with the Sacred Beast trap "Hyper Blaze" that ignores the Summoning conditions, yet you cannot reborn any Sacred Beasts with it, that have not been properly summoned.

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Post #5 by Lil Oldman » Tue Jun 21, 2022 6:21 pm

greg503 wrote:Now, would it be a legal play if Telefon had the same "ignoring summoning conditions" clause that Celfon has?

No. It wasn't properly Summoned through Celfon. iirc, cards must be properly summoned first to be successfully summoned from GY. Independently from wether or not it ignores summoning conditions.
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Post #6 by greg503 » Tue Jun 21, 2022 8:35 pm

And that's the real disaster, "ignoring the Summoning conditions"
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Post #7 by Fredblade » Thu Jun 23, 2022 3:49 am

greg503 wrote:And that's the real disaster, "ignoring the Summoning conditions"


Here we go again, "ignoring summoning conditions" does not bypass the rule of a monster having to be properly summoned by its method first because that's not a summoning condition, it's a game mechanic.

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Post #8 by Renji Asuka » Thu Jun 23, 2022 3:55 am

Fredblade wrote:
greg503 wrote:And that's the real disaster, "ignoring the Summoning conditions"


Here we go again, "ignoring summoning conditions" does not bypass the rule of a monster having to be properly summoned by its method first because that's not a summoning condition, it's a game mechanic.

To be honest, I blame Konami cause of terrible wording.
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Post #9 by Fredblade » Thu Jun 23, 2022 4:07 am

Renji Asuka wrote:
Fredblade wrote:
greg503 wrote:And that's the real disaster, "ignoring the Summoning conditions"


Here we go again, "ignoring summoning conditions" does not bypass the rule of a monster having to be properly summoned by its method first because that's not a summoning condition, it's a game mechanic.

To be honest, I blame Konami cause of terrible wording.


To be honest, people use mechanics and conditions as interchangeable terms.

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Post #10 by Wek » Thu Jun 23, 2022 4:32 am

greg503 wrote:Now, would it be a legal play if Telefon had the same "ignoring summoning conditions" clause that Celfon has?


https://db.ygorganization.com/qa#23263

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Post #11 by greg503 » Thu Jun 23, 2022 2:55 pm

Fredblade wrote:
Renji Asuka wrote:
Fredblade wrote:
Here we go again, "ignoring summoning conditions" does not bypass the rule of a monster having to be properly summoned by its method first because that's not a summoning condition, it's a game mechanic.

To be honest, I blame Konami cause of terrible wording.


To be honest, people use mechanics and conditions as interchangeable terms.

The point is that I think it causes more problems than if it worked intuitively
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Post #12 by greg503 » Thu Jun 23, 2022 2:56 pm

Same with "missing the timing," it causes more problem than if no cards missed timing.
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Post #13 by Renji Asuka » Thu Jun 23, 2022 4:12 pm

Honestly, they should just remove the Missing of Timing as a whole. It would open a whole new series of plays people can make.

For example

Normal Summon Red Resonator

Red Resonator's Effect to Special Summon Reborn Tengu

Synchro into Red Rising Dragon

Reborn Tengu CL1 and Red Rising Dragon is CL2

Special Summon Reborn Tengu with Red Resonator

Repeat until no more Reborn Tengus could be played.

Unfortunately due to missing of timing, Reborn Tengu causes Red Rising Dragon to miss timing.
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Post #14 by Lil Oldman » Thu Jun 23, 2022 4:56 pm

While missing timing is BS, archetypes like True Draco are balanced around that.
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Post #15 by greg503 » Thu Jun 23, 2022 5:02 pm

Lil Oldman wrote:While missing timing is BS, archetypes like True Draco are balanced around that.

True Draco's don't miss timing, you must be thinking of another archtype. You mean Yang Zings which are also a Wyrm archtype?
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Post #16 by Fredblade » Thu Jun 23, 2022 5:10 pm

Renji Asuka wrote:Honestly, they should just remove the Missing of Timing as a whole. It would open a whole new series of plays people can make.

For example

Normal Summon Red Resonator

Red Resonator's Effect to Special Summon Reborn Tengu

Synchro into Red Rising Dragon

Reborn Tengu CL1 and Red Rising Dragon is CL2

Special Summon Reborn Tengu with Red Resonator

Repeat until no more Reborn Tengus could be played.

Unfortunately due to missing of timing, Reborn Tengu causes Red Rising Dragon to miss timing.


Red Rising Dragon doesn't miss the timing here. You probably meant the Red Resonator is the one that misses the timing.

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Post #17 by Lil Oldman » Thu Jun 23, 2022 7:44 pm

greg503 wrote:
Lil Oldman wrote:While missing timing is BS, archetypes like True Draco are balanced around that.

True Draco's don't miss timing, you must be thinking of another archtype. You mean Yang Zings which are also a Wyrm archtype?

No. Dinomight Knight, Ignis Heat and Majesty Maiden have When at the effect of searching of of an opponents card or effect. You cant go +3 of just 1 opponent's play.
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Post #18 by greg503 » Thu Jun 23, 2022 9:26 pm

Lil Oldman wrote:
greg503 wrote:
Lil Oldman wrote:While missing timing is BS, archetypes like True Draco are balanced around that.

True Draco's don't miss timing, you must be thinking of another archtype. You mean Yang Zings which are also a Wyrm archtype?

No. Dinomight Knight, Ignis Heat and Majesty Maiden have When at the effect of searching of of an opponents card or effect. You cant go +3 of just 1 opponent's play.

OH no, I'm so scared of True Draco going + faster than intended, as long as they don't in-archtype floodgates, them not missing timing doesn't matter
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Post #19 by Lil Oldman » Thu Jun 23, 2022 9:37 pm

greg503 wrote:
Lil Oldman wrote:
greg503 wrote:True Draco's don't miss timing, you must be thinking of another archtype. You mean Yang Zings which are also a Wyrm archtype?

No. Dinomight Knight, Ignis Heat and Majesty Maiden have When at the effect of searching of of an opponents card or effect. You cant go +3 of just 1 opponent's play.

OH no, I'm so scared of True Draco going + faster than intended, as long as they don't in-archtype floodgates, them not missing timing doesn't matter

Draco Slayer is going to get support on Darkwing Blast so we aren't exactly out of the woods yet. That said, yeah, True Draco isn't that menacing without any Floodgates like The Monarcjs Erupt or Masterpeace.
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Post #20 by Renji Asuka » Fri Jun 24, 2022 1:48 am

Fredblade wrote:
Renji Asuka wrote:Honestly, they should just remove the Missing of Timing as a whole. It would open a whole new series of plays people can make.

For example

Normal Summon Red Resonator

Red Resonator's Effect to Special Summon Reborn Tengu

Synchro into Red Rising Dragon

Reborn Tengu CL1 and Red Rising Dragon is CL2

Special Summon Reborn Tengu with Red Resonator

Repeat until no more Reborn Tengus could be played.

Unfortunately due to missing of timing, Reborn Tengu causes Red Rising Dragon to miss timing.


Red Rising Dragon doesn't miss the timing here. You probably meant the Red Resonator is the one that misses the timing.

Red Rising Dragon Text Source: https://yugioh.fandom.com/wiki/Red_Rising_Dragon

1 Fiend Tuner + 1+ non-Tuner monsters
When this card is Synchro Summoned: You can target 1 "Resonator" monster in your GY; Special Summon it. You cannot Special Summon monsters from the Extra Deck the turn you activate this effect, except DARK Dragon Synchro Monsters. During your Main Phase, except the turn this card was sent to the GY: You can banish this card from your GY, then target 2 Level 1 "Resonator" monsters in your GY; Special Summon both.

Yes, it misses timing, otherwise I can spam 3 out with 1 Red Resonator and 1 Reborn Tengu, which I can't because Reborn Tengu causes Red Rising to miss timing. (Dumb I know).
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