The Woes And Wailings of Dragoon Rulings and the Fundamentals of TCGs

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The Woes And Wailings of Dragoon Rulings and the Fundamentals of TCGs

Post #1 by troglyte » Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:41 pm

“If there is a discrepancy between the basic rules and a card’s effect, the card effect takes precedence. For example, a monster can only attack once per turn, but with a card effect, it is possible to attack twice.”
-Yugioh Official Rulebook, Page 50

This is probably the most important quote to take away from the Yugioh Rulebook. In my opinion, this concept is the core appeal of TCGs in general. Players are given a specific set of rules, and the cards they play essentially ‘break’ those rules. This concept of controlled freedom is exactly what TCG players enjoy so much.

That being said, Yugioh has been inconsistent with the application of this in the past few years. To be fair, Yugioh is a japanese game originally. I am no translator, but I imagine there are some concepts that are just downright difficult to translate, let alone manage and balance a 20 year old trading card game.

So I was playing on DuelingNexus, and I found myself unable to activate Red-Eyes Fusion. I was playing Gaia the Fierce Knight/Dragoon turbo. I was not playing Red-Eyes, as I thought Cursed Dragon would be able to do the job. I was mistaken. I went to Duelingbook to vent/complain, until the Lovely Users of Duelingbook (I love you all, bless your hearts) directed me to the official rulings regarding Red-Eyes Fusion and Dragoon. ... rk_Dragoon

This ruling, although rather straightforward, leaves me with one question:


WHY can I not use Cursed Dragon as material when using Red-Eyes Fusion? Nowhere on Red-Eyes Fusion does it say I HAVE to use Red-Eyes. For quick reference, here are Dragoon’s Fusion Materials:

"Dark Magician" + "Red-Eyes Black Dragon" or 1 Dragon Effect Monster

And here is what Red-Eyes Fusion states:

Fusion Summon 1 Fusion Monster that lists a "Red-Eyes" monster as material from your Extra Deck, using monsters from your hand, Deck, or field as Fusion Materials, and if you do, its name becomes "Red-Eyes Black Dragon".

Is there perhaps a mistranslation? I would totally understand that, as this is a card game translated from Japanese to English, and translation issues have been an issue before. Rainbow Dragon and the entire Inherent Summon rulings are just two examples. However, the best explanation I could find so far is the Official Ruling in question, and that Konami has a final say on such rulings, and does not owe us an explanation.

Readers, let us return to the quote from the very beginning. Is this not a blatant contradiction in policy? It’s a ruling that contradicts the very fundamentals of any card game. Now perhaps there is an explanation. If so, I want it.I think it’s silly to just blindly accept a ruling just because those in power said so. I want to see the data, I want to understand the logic. I am entitled to an explanation!
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Post #2 by greg503 » Sun Sep 06, 2020 8:00 pm

Because if you run the original Japanese text of Red-Eyes Fusion through Google Translate, you would see that its effect implies that you have to use Red-Eyes as a fusion material when you use it to Fusion Summon.
TCG: "Fusion Summon 1 Fusion Monster that lists a "Red-Eyes" monster as material from your Extra Deck, using monsters from your hand, Deck, or field as Fusion Materials, and if you do, its name becomes "Red-Eyes Black Dragon". You cannot Normal or Special Summon other monsters the turn you activate this card. You can only activate 1 "Red-Eyes Fusion" per turn."
OCG: "このカード名のカードは1ターンに1枚しか発動できず、このカードを発動するターン、自分はこのカードの効果以外ではモンスターを召喚・特殊召喚できない。①:自分の手札・デッキ・フィールドから、融合モンスターカードによって決められた融合素材モンスターを墓地へ送り、「レッドアイズ」モンスターを融合素材とするその融合モンスター1体をEXデッキから融合召喚する。この効果で特殊召喚したモンスターのカード名は「真紅眼の黒竜」として扱う。"
Translate: "Only one card with this card name can be activated per turn, and you cannot summon or special summon monsters other than the effect of this card during the turn you activate this card. ①: Send the fusion material monster determined by the fusion monster card from your hand, deck, or field to the graveyard, and fusion summon one fusion monster with the "Red Eyes" monster as the fusion material from the EX deck. The card name of the monster special summoned with this effect is treated as "Red-Eyes Black Dragon"."
Cleaned up: Hard once per turn and summoning restriction. Fusion Summon one Fusion Monster from your Extra Deck that lists a "Red-Eyes" monster as fusion material, using a listed "Red-Eyes" monster as fusion material, sending those materials from your hand, Deck, or field to the GY. Name change to "Red-Eyes Black Dragon".

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Post #3 by Yoshikage Killer » Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:51 pm

I would say that this is REF's TCG text being shit and not explaining how the card should function.

Also this is just the latest since we already have for destruction swordsman fusion
And for miracle synchro fusion.

All 3 have similar text. So i would personally go with that TCG has fucked up again on wording.

We also have xtra hero Whose TCG text isn't too clear and says "listed" (and then look at the first bullet point in card FAQ entries.

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