Because of the new rules, we should fix the "Gender" option to accounts.

If you have a suggestion for the site, create a topic here and telll us about it
Genexwrecker
User avatar
Posts: 2665
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2017 10:52 pm
Reputation: 396

Re: Because of the new rules, we should fix the "Gender" option to accounts.

Post #21 by Genexwrecker » Sat Mar 11, 2023 6:16 pm

Excellion wrote:
Genexwrecker wrote:
greg503 wrote:You know there are alternatives that are generally accepted, you could call them by name, use "they/them," or another solution. No one is forcing you to refer to them in a specific way, it's more like you are being asked to not be a dick to LGBT+ people.

A big majority are trying to force others though and konami is also forces you to. Not using their preferred pronoun/gender is seen as an attack for some reason. Even if you use those more neutral terms. Like I said in judge chat if the policy change is purely to prevent bullying of actual trans people that would be great. However I have a very bad feeling that isnt the case and konamis policy is definitely going to be abused.

To avoid such we will keep our current stance. If a player in a duel keeps missgendering for fun its going to be a uc minor as it is disrupting the game and spamming the chat.

have you read the policy... its not forcing you to use their preferred pronoun, just dont purposefully misgender them for the sake of harassment if someone called you "Xe/Xer" and you asked them to stop, and they didnt, purposefully, because they knew it upset you, then that is harassment.

if i get misgendered in a rated game, i will correct them once, if they misgender me again, i will report it to a judge under the policy changes and if YOU answer that judge call and say its a UC Minor, when its very cleary someone maliciously misgendering me, i will ask for an appeal to a higher judge.

We are not gamelossing people for it. If you try to appeal that in a game it will be denied.

The main things to consider are the following
1.) its the internet anyone can literally claim anything
2.) if a person is religious and believe that men are men and women are women(which is correct) the. They have the right to refer to them as such. Im not sure why we are trying to make this a crime.
3.) missgendering would actually mean if i go to a person who is clearly a male and call them a female to make fun of them or vice versa. If I witnessed that at an event I would happily game loss the 5th grade bully.
Official Duelingbook Support staff
Official Duelingbook Resource Judge
Official Duelingbook Tournament Admin.(Other tournament Admin is Runzy)

Excellion
Posts: 228
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:25 pm
Reputation: 4

Post #22 by Excellion » Sat Mar 11, 2023 6:43 pm

Genexwrecker wrote:
Excellion wrote:
Genexwrecker wrote:A big majority are trying to force others though and konami is also forces you to. Not using their preferred pronoun/gender is seen as an attack for some reason. Even if you use those more neutral terms. Like I said in judge chat if the policy change is purely to prevent bullying of actual trans people that would be great. However I have a very bad feeling that isnt the case and konamis policy is definitely going to be abused.

To avoid such we will keep our current stance. If a player in a duel keeps missgendering for fun its going to be a uc minor as it is disrupting the game and spamming the chat.

have you read the policy... its not forcing you to use their preferred pronoun, just dont purposefully misgender them for the sake of harassment if someone called you "Xe/Xer" and you asked them to stop, and they didnt, purposefully, because they knew it upset you, then that is harassment.

if i get misgendered in a rated game, i will correct them once, if they misgender me again, i will report it to a judge under the policy changes and if YOU answer that judge call and say its a UC Minor, when its very cleary someone maliciously misgendering me, i will ask for an appeal to a higher judge.

We are not gamelossing people for it. If you try to appeal that in a game it will be denied.

The main things to consider are the following
1.) its the internet anyone can literally claim anything
2.) if a person is religious and believe that men are men and women are women(which is correct) the. They have the right to refer to them as such. Im not sure why we are trying to make this a crime.
3.) missgendering would actually mean if i go to a person who is clearly a male and call them a female to make fun of them or vice versa. If I witnessed that at an event I would happily game loss the 5th grade bully.

So we shouldnt force other people to follow our beliefs... unless they were religious? how regressive of you. Fine, then it is my religious belief to ask and used preferred pronouns, you denying me that is against my religious belief and i will appeal on those grounds as well as not following konami policy

Excellion
Posts: 228
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:25 pm
Reputation: 4

Post #23 by Excellion » Sat Mar 11, 2023 6:57 pm

Genexwrecker wrote:
greg503 wrote:
Renji Asuka wrote:They/Them is not an appropriate pronoun to use when referring to a person you're having a conversation with, same with he/she/her/him. These pronouns are always used when the person in question isn't around or if they are around you use those pronouns to answer a question about them. That is why the pronoun shit is ridiculous.

Regardless, it will not change how I refer to a person as I will not tolerate compelled speech in any form.

Now in a familiar setting, I'll always refer to my friends as man or dude when having conversations with them. Man is actually a gender/sex neutral term fun fact. As it can refer to our species or adult human male.

I don't disagree with you opposing the idea of you being forced to refer to someone in the "correct" way (I know a certain culture that is all about "correcting" others), but I am saying that that interpretation of the policy clarifications is unsubstantiated. Honestly, we just need to see how much it actually changes tournaments before making a judgement call.
the point being made is the policy should never have had that update in the first place. There was 0 reason to implement it. The policy literally does nothing. And if konami ACTUALLY does disqualify people from events for referring to a female as a female and a male a male they will very easily see lawsuits for discrimination of religious beliefs and in united states courts they will lose those lawsuits very easily. These policies might hold a bit better in other country ycs events where controlling speech and thoughts is accepted.

So konami is wrong for discriminating against religious people for "making them" use prefered pronouns... but companies like Chic-fil-a which are openly against LGBTQ and will deny you service based on that... theyre fine, right? because thats their "Religious right"? Sounds like maybe you need to reconsider your priorities.

Genexwrecker
User avatar
Posts: 2665
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2017 10:52 pm
Reputation: 396

Post #24 by Genexwrecker » Sat Mar 11, 2023 7:36 pm

Discussion on this topic is over as I see what it will devolve into. This is covered on my checklist. Have a great day.
Official Duelingbook Support staff
Official Duelingbook Resource Judge
Official Duelingbook Tournament Admin.(Other tournament Admin is Runzy)

Excellion
Posts: 228
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:25 pm
Reputation: 4

Post #25 by Excellion » Sat Mar 11, 2023 9:06 pm

Genexwrecker wrote:Discussion on this topic is over as I see what it will devolve into. This is covered on my checklist. Have a great day.

Well good on you for being self-aware enough to know that you are unable to talk about subjects maturely. but i feel that is no reason why the discussion cant be had at all, just because you arent mature enough to take part because that violates my right of speech :)

Excellion
Posts: 228
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:25 pm
Reputation: 4

Post #26 by Excellion » Sat Mar 11, 2023 9:15 pm

Renji Asuka wrote:
greg503 wrote:
Excellion wrote:This was a previous point of contention on this site, but with the current changes konami announced, we should add more than 2 options for "gender" or change it to "preferred gender" with space to add whatever you like to prevent purposeful misgendering.

People who want to be unsporting and intentionally misgender someone are still going to do it even if you get your way. Just don't be a dick and call out people for being unwilling to respect what someone online wants to be called


Me personally, I won't ever be compelled to call someone something that they are not especially if it goes against my belief. I will never give into the delusions of the mentally ill.

I don't believe any company should be forcing any kind of speech on other people especially when it can go against the religion of another person.

Like imagine forcing a muslim to call a woman a man and force that ideology on them. It would NEVER look good on the person who is trying to push that onto the Muslim and they'd look like they belong in the loony house.

Now as for the site itself giving this option, it's just going to open a can of worms and create pointless drama.

imagine being forced to be misgendered as a woman when you are a man, you clarify youre a man, and yet youre still called a women, and you wont follow "delusions" but youll follow religious teachings, so you Will follow delusions, just not ones that dont support bigotry? Got it.

greg503
User avatar
Posts: 2333
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2017 3:43 pm
Reputation: 199
Location: Flundereeze

Post #27 by greg503 » Sat Mar 11, 2023 9:32 pm

This goes back to 2 points:
1. Almost everyone here is a stranger to one another, DB does not allow us to see who we're playing and make any assumptions about their gender, playing an opponent with VC through any method is different, but if you are, you either know them OR...
2. Just talk to each other to find something acceptable, life is full of compromises, and if you can't negotiate with them, at least you'll understand them a little better than if you just blew them off for being X that you don't like.
Buy Floowandereeze

Renji Asuka
User avatar
Posts: 2680
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2018 4:37 am
Reputation: 242

Post #28 by Renji Asuka » Sun Mar 12, 2023 12:01 am

Excellion wrote:
Genexwrecker wrote:
greg503 wrote:You know there are alternatives that are generally accepted, you could call them by name, use "they/them," or another solution. No one is forcing you to refer to them in a specific way, it's more like you are being asked to not be a dick to LGBT+ people.

A big majority are trying to force others though and konami is also forces you to. Not using their preferred pronoun/gender is seen as an attack for some reason. Even if you use those more neutral terms. Like I said in judge chat if the policy change is purely to prevent bullying of actual trans people that would be great. However I have a very bad feeling that isnt the case and konamis policy is definitely going to be abused.

To avoid such we will keep our current stance. If a player in a duel keeps missgendering for fun its going to be a uc minor as it is disrupting the game and spamming the chat.

have you read the policy... its not forcing you to use their preferred pronoun, just dont purposefully misgender them for the sake of harassment if someone called you "Xe/Xer" and you asked them to stop, and they didnt, purposefully, because they knew it upset you, then that is harassment.

if i get misgendered in a rated game, i will correct them once, if they misgender me again, i will report it to a judge under the policy changes and if YOU answer that judge call and say its a UC Minor, when its very cleary someone maliciously misgendering me, i will ask for an appeal to a higher judge.

"have you read the policy... its not forcing you to use their preferred pronoun, just dont purposefully misgender them"

Congrats, this argument beats itself in the nuts.

Let me explain.

You claim that it isn't "forcing people to use their preferred pronoun," then you back it up with "Just don't purposefully misgender them"

So you're telling me, if for example, a person who is biologically female that believes they are a male, and I refer her as a female, something that she is biologically, I should be punished.

Cause that is exactly what that policy does. It enforces a rule to protect the mentally ill. It forces my speech, or else I am punished. So yes, it is forcing people to use their "preferred pronoun".

If a rule strongarms a person into obeying a rule that is overreaching on a person's rights, then it is fascism.
Image
Showing people that I'm The King of Games since September 30, 1996.

Renji Asuka
User avatar
Posts: 2680
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2018 4:37 am
Reputation: 242

Post #29 by Renji Asuka » Sun Mar 12, 2023 12:02 am

Excellion wrote:
Renji Asuka wrote:
greg503 wrote:People who want to be unsporting and intentionally misgender someone are still going to do it even if you get your way. Just don't be a dick and call out people for being unwilling to respect what someone online wants to be called


Me personally, I won't ever be compelled to call someone something that they are not especially if it goes against my belief. I will never give into the delusions of the mentally ill.

I don't believe any company should be forcing any kind of speech on other people especially when it can go against the religion of another person.

Like imagine forcing a muslim to call a woman a man and force that ideology on them. It would NEVER look good on the person who is trying to push that onto the Muslim and they'd look like they belong in the loony house.

Now as for the site itself giving this option, it's just going to open a can of worms and create pointless drama.

imagine being forced to be misgendered as a woman when you are a man, you clarify youre a man, and yet youre still called a women, and you wont follow "delusions" but youll follow religious teachings, so you Will follow delusions, just not ones that dont support bigotry? Got it.

It isn't religious teachings. It's science, men cannot be women and women cannot be men. If you believe otherwise, you are delusional.
Image
Showing people that I'm The King of Games since September 30, 1996.

Excellion
Posts: 228
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:25 pm
Reputation: 4

Post #30 by Excellion » Sun Mar 12, 2023 12:08 am

Renji Asuka wrote:
Excellion wrote:
Genexwrecker wrote:A big majority are trying to force others though and konami is also forces you to. Not using their preferred pronoun/gender is seen as an attack for some reason. Even if you use those more neutral terms. Like I said in judge chat if the policy change is purely to prevent bullying of actual trans people that would be great. However I have a very bad feeling that isnt the case and konamis policy is definitely going to be abused.

To avoid such we will keep our current stance. If a player in a duel keeps missgendering for fun its going to be a uc minor as it is disrupting the game and spamming the chat.

have you read the policy... its not forcing you to use their preferred pronoun, just dont purposefully misgender them for the sake of harassment if someone called you "Xe/Xer" and you asked them to stop, and they didnt, purposefully, because they knew it upset you, then that is harassment.

if i get misgendered in a rated game, i will correct them once, if they misgender me again, i will report it to a judge under the policy changes and if YOU answer that judge call and say its a UC Minor, when its very cleary someone maliciously misgendering me, i will ask for an appeal to a higher judge.

"have you read the policy... its not forcing you to use their preferred pronoun, just dont purposefully misgender them"

Congrats, this argument beats itself in the nuts.

Let me explain.

You claim that it isn't "forcing people to use their preferred pronoun," then you back it up with "Just don't purposefully misgender them"

So you're telling me, if for example, a person who is biologically female that believes they are a male, and I refer her as a female, something that she is biologically, I should be punished.

Cause that is exactly what that policy does. It enforces a rule to protect the mentally ill. It forces my speech, or else I am punished. So yes, it is forcing people to use their "preferred pronoun".

If a rule strongarms a person into obeying a rule that is overreaching on a person's rights, then it is fascism.

Stopping people "because it goes against your faith" would equally be facisim under those guidelines... and no, it does not say "you MUST use their prefered pronouns" it simply says "you CANNOT Purposefully misgender them" if you think theyre a women, and you say "she" and they correct you that its "he" you can still just use they/them, or He/Him if you have to use a pronoun, at all.

by your logic, telling people they cant be neo nazis at a ycs event means "you must be jewish to enter"

also, on this "religious" note, if i have to prove my gender to some stranger to prove im being misgendered, then you have to first prove your religion to me, so i hope you keep your membership card handy.

MarshieDemon
User avatar
Posts: 1365
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2021 1:41 am
Reputation: 48

Post #31 by MarshieDemon » Sun Mar 12, 2023 12:39 am

We are a dueling simulator. It is not my place to get involved in the details of this discussion. We are also a platform with many judges who all have differing views on the world. Therefore, one view cannot represent the view of everyone. Ultimately, it is up to Xteven to decide which features he would like to implement.

Our approach to handling these kinds of judge calls has not changed. If you are intentionally being a dick to your opponent, you risk unsporting conduct penalties, usually starting as a UC (Minor) penalty and upgraded if the behavior continues.
Image

Head Administrator


Return to “Suggestions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 130 guests