rating system needs a tweak

[jonjones]

Hello everyone, I'm jonjones8. I was a competitive match player on DN and I just finished getting 1st place in singles here on DB with my alternate account Big Bang Blow. https://imgur.com/o7ObNKl proof that it's me I had a lot of fun playing singles and the best part was that it did not take too long for me to do it. I literally just started playing on my Big Bang Blow account a few weeks ago. I would like to play match again but I just can't get into it. The reason is because the rating system on DB for matches is flawed. The problem is it gives too few points for a match win but when you lose a match you lose a ton of points especially if you're high rated. I remember on DN at the end of every format the top 200 ratings for matches was at least high 1500 or low 1600 and the top 12 consisted of 1800+ and a few 1900. On DB the ratings are much much lower for matches. I played matches on DB for the majority of June format and when I was higher ranked I would have to win at least 3 matches in a row to make up for every loss. https://imgur.com/5X0Zizs https://imgur.com/GGggtdY https://imgur.com/IczDmRB In the links I posted only one match win gave me 14 points and the rest were 11 and below. Now compare this to DN's rating system. http://i.imgur.com/sBSnbqE.png Here I have 1884 match rating. http://i.imgur.com/ztVX2T4.png I lose one match and drop to 1851. http://i.imgur.com/MCX0JK1.png I win two straight and my rating is 1888 even higher than what it was before. On DB's rating system this is IMPOSSIBLE if you are high ranked meaning it's much much more of a grind to get to a high rank. You ALWAYS have to win at least 3 straight maybe 4 straight to get back the points lost from a match loss if you're high rated. Nothing is more frustrating than playing a hard fought match that goes to the 3rd duel and only come away with 7-12 points for the win while a simple disconnect loss makes you lose 30+ points. I like yugioh, it's a fun card game but I don't have the time to play hundreds and hundreds of matches just to get a high rating or rank. On DN the competitive match playing was the best part of the site for me. It was really easy to increase your rating and rank and you didn't have to play that many matches to do it. It also provided players an incentive or tangible goal to chase like reaching 1500, 1600, 1700, 1800, 1900 rating. On DB it's not the same and I don't feel any motivation to play matches.

So yeah this is a long post. I think DB is a really awesome site. It does a lot of things better than DN such as the vastly improved user interface, duel logs in duels, duel records, able to see all messages but when it comes to the rating system DN did it better. The DB rating system is a lot more favorable to singles than matches and awards similar points for a win. On DN matches always gave a lot more points for a win than singles and the formula was based on ratings of both players, w-l ratio for both players, whether the match was won 2-0 or 2-1. On DN you would regularly gain 25+ points for winning a match, on here you gain no more than 15. Is this something that you guys could consider changing? I'm not saying that the rating system for DB has to be exactly the same as DN, but could you tweak it so that it rewards players with more points for a match win? What are your thoughts on this? I know DB has made a lot of changes to the site and they're all great so I know you're open to changes. I think a tweaked rating system on DB would attract more players to play on the site and generate more interest.

[king zed]

very true cause i lost 2 duels today and i lose 21 and 19
when i won i got 15 and 12

[Maximillion Pegasus]

Paragraph is your friend.

[Twisted Soul]

Its harder for a reason.

[XtevensChannel]

Well, I'll admit it's kind of intimidating to compare the amount of points you lose vs the amount you gain while you are high rated. Before we reset stats for the first time, there were people who ended up with like 2400+ rating, and that felt pretty wrong to me, so I made some changes to try and make it closer to DN's system. I think it's possible that the reason match ratings aren't as high as DN's was is because there are fewer users on this site, which means you play against lower rated people, so winning against them doesn't give as many points.

I was never that competitive on DN, so I didn't study its rating system too closely. If DN had duel records and I could look over some of them, it might help me make a system more similar to it.

Maybe we do need to be more generous for matches. We'll see.

Also I'm not that good at math, and the rating system was one of the hardest things to make, lol

[jonjones]

Well, I'll admit it's kind of intimidating to compare the amount of points you lose vs the amount you gain while you are high rated. Before we reset stats for the first time, there were people who ended up with like 2400+ rating, and that felt pretty wrong to me, so I made some changes to try and make it closer to DN's system. I think it's possible that the reason match ratings aren't as high as DN's was is because there are fewer users on this site, which means you play against lower rated people, so winning against them doesn't give as many points.

I was never that competitive on DN, so I didn't study its rating system too closely. If DN had duel records and I could look over some of them, it might help me make a system more similar to it.

Maybe we do need to be more generous for matches. We'll see.

Also I'm not that good at math, and the rating system was one of the hardest things to make, lol

Hey Xteven, thank you for responding. Actually even when I beat players that were similar in rating to me I didn't gain noticeably more points than when I beat someone a lot lower rated. https://imgur.com/ClooOTX Here's a pic from YuuchyHongroy that shows what the match ratings were at the end of June 2017 format. 1st and 2nd place were tied with 1700 rating but they had to play 538 and 638 matches to do it. And this was after the stats were reset so everyone started with 0/0 in terms of wins and losses. That is A LOT of matches. http://i.imgur.com/fdTUTOp.png Now compare this to DN. In this pic I was able to climb up to 10th place with 1847 match rating in just 172 matches and this only took me a week and a couple of days. I remember I would regularly gain 30+ points at the start but near the end when I was at 1800 I would gain very little because my w-l ratio was too good.

Now I know the rating system involves some pretty technical and complicated algorithms and I'm not going to pretend like I know a lot about that. But maybe you could adjust it so that if you 2-0 someone you get 30 points, and if you beat someone 2-1 you get 20 points, and the amount of points you get deviates from 30 or 20 depending on the ratings of both players. So for example if I with 1000 rating 2-0 someone with 1000 rating then I get 30 points for 2-0. But if I with 1000 rating 2-0 someone with 800 rating then I get slightly less like maybe 27-28 points. And if I with 1000 rating 2-0 someone with 1300 rating then I get 33 points. And on the flipside if you lose 2-0 to someone you lose 25 points, and if you lose 2-1 you lose 15 points, and the amount of points you lose deviates from 25 or 15 depending on the ratings of both players. So if I with 1000 rating lose 2-1 to someone with 1000 rating then I lose 15. And if I with 1000 lose 2-1 to someone with 800 rating then I lose 18 points. And if I with 1000 rating lose 2-1 to someone with 1300 rating then I lose 12 points. Don't include W-L ratio when determining rating outcome because on DB most players have good to very good W-L ratio. This is just an idea for a new rating system. If you implemented a rating system like this the ratings of all players on DB would increase by a lot because it rewards winning and does not punish players for losing as much. Could you post the current rating system of DB on here Xteven or is that out of the question?

[Sries Mslaiks]

honestly, the number of points you have is irrelevant, as long as the relative rankings are accurate. The digits themselves don't mean anything except for how easy it is to acquire them, so as long as it is equally difficult for everyone, the actual number won't matter. The highest rating could be 1000 and it would still be fine so long as the best players are at 1k, next set 900, and so forth... I think you get the idea.

[jonjones]

honestly, the number of points you have is irrelevant, as long as the relative rankings are accurate. The digits themselves don't mean anything except for how easy it is to acquire them, so as long as it is equally difficult for everyone, the actual number won't matter. The highest rating could be 1000 and it would still be fine so long as the best players are at 1k, next set 900, and so forth... I think you get the idea.

The rating itself isn't the issue, the issue is how few points you get for winning a match compared to how much you lose from losing a match. A match is best of 3 duels, it takes much longer than a single duel yet on DB the rating system awards both wins the same amount of points. I know from experience, I was the number one ranked player in single this past format as Big Bang Blow. Even though my rating was really high and my w-l ratio really good i was still getting 10-11 points for winning a single duel which is a lot compared to how it was on DN for singles where if you were 1500 rating you would only get 5-8 points per win. I just looked over my duel record and the reason I gave up on June format was because I lost another match from a disconnect so I lost 28 points for nothing and had to win yet again 3 or 4 straight to get them back.

I enjoyed playing singles on DB because it was easy and the reward for winning a duel matched the effort it took to win. But for matches the "reward" you get for winning, which is rating won, does not match the effort it takes to win. It gives way too little points for a best of 3 and for this reason I'll never play match again seriously for rating under DB's current rating system. I remember on DN you would gain 30+ points sometimes even 40 for 2-0 someone a lot higher rated than you. That doesn't happen here. I beat flaming_ice 2-1 on DB before the stats reset when he was at like 1970 rating and I was 800 rating and I only gained 12 points for a match that took an hour. I don't see any downside whatsoever to changing the rating system on DB for matches to make it easier for everyone to get points.

Oh and another idea is to put a limit for how much rating you can gain or lose. So if you're 1500 rating in match and you lose 2-0 to someone who is 700 rating the max rating you lose is 35 so no -40 like it was on DN. And if you're 800 rating and you 2-1 someone with 1600 rating the max rating you gain is 27. There could be a formula like if your opponent is over 700 points of rating more or less than you then the rating gained or lost is the max rating. The max rating limit for points gained or loss would help out since on DB you're quite often paired against players a lot higher or lower rated than you.

[Smitcholin]

GLECKO RATING SYSTEM NEEDS TO BE IMPLEMENTED.

[lanz]

make Rating great again....