Bitcoin as a payment method

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Friends
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Bitcoin as a payment method

Post #1 by Friends » Sat Oct 03, 2020 8:38 am

I would like to suggest adding bitcoin as a way of payment. In some countries, paying through paypal isn't easy and affordable. For example, there are high fees and I'll have to provide a bank account to my paypal in order to move money.

With bitcoin, I don't. I simply send an amount of digital currency to a duelingbook's bitcoin address.

For those that don't know what is bitcoin:
Bitcoin is an electronic payment system created in 2009. It allows you to send money to anyone in the world, without the need for a central authority to issue accounts or process payments.

It was created as a solution to the modern financial system, whereby a small number of large banks control the issuance of accounts and the processing of transactions. This centralizes the control of money, and forces users to trust the banks to act responsibly.
Read more at learnmeabitcoin.com

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Post #2 by Christen57 » Sat Oct 03, 2020 5:55 pm

Friends wrote:I would like to suggest adding bitcoin as a way of payment. In some countries, paying through paypal isn't easy and affordable. For example, there are high fees and I'll have to provide a bank account to my paypal in order to move money.

With bitcoin, I don't. I simply send an amount of digital currency to a duelingbook's bitcoin address.


As someone who has some experience with both bitcoin and paypal, for various online transactions in the past, I unfortunately have to disagree with this claim that it is outright superior to paypal.

You see, paypal may not be perfect, but bitcoin has several major flaws of it's own (some of which overlap with paypal's flaws) that will prevent, or at least discourage, the owner(s) of duelingbook from implementing bitcoin as an option.

High fees may exist with paypal, but they also exist with bitcoin as well, and said high fees are also less transparent and more vague with bitcoin than with paypal. Almost every time I tried to transfer money to someone else in the form of bitcoin, said bitcoin ends up getting mishandled between each party it's being transferred between, and the value of that bitcoin going to my friend goes down repeatedly as the third parties each decide to keep some of their own share of it before transferring the rest to the next party until it is ultimately transferred to the friend that you want it to be transferred to, resulting in that friend getting much less bitcoin than you were originally trying to send them.

What this means is that, for example, if I was in Canada, and I wanted to transfer 20 dollars to a friend that is in Russia, via bitcoin, and 20 dollars was worth, for example, 10 bitcoin, first I would have to find a Canadian bitcoin trader online, transfer the 20 dollars to them so they can transfer the equivalent amount of bitcoin to me in return, transfer the bitcoin to an online website designed to manage peoples' bitcoin, then have that website transfer that bitcoin to the country my friend is in, which is, in this case, Russia, then have Russia transfer the bitcoin to my friend, have my friend transfer that bitcoin to a Russian bitcoin trader, before finally having that Russian bitcoin trader transfer an amount of Russian dollars equivalent to that amount of Russian bitcoin back to my friend.

This may seem like a fairly simple and straightforward process, but there are so many things that can, and most likely will, go wrong here:

  1. The Canadian bitcoin trader may either miscalculate/misrepresent the amount of bitcoin that 20 Canadian dollars is worth or supposed to be worth, and give you an amount of bitcoin worth less than the amount of Canadian dollars you have them, or the Canadian may decide to keep any amount of your bitcoin that they want for themselves while giving you the rest and then claiming that either the money they kept is for taxes, some other fees, or simply lie about that amount of bitcoin given to you being what that amount of Canadian dollars is worth, with no way for you to verify if these claims are true.
  2. The website(s) may mishandle your bitcoin, "lose" some of your bitcoin in the process of it getting transferred to and from that website, transfer some of your bitcoin to the next third-party while secretly keeping some of your bitcoin for themselves, tax or at least try to tax your bitcoin without telling you until it's too late, or have some other kind of arbitrary error/restriction keeping you from successfully transferring the bitcoin to Russia, thus keeping your bitcoin stuck on that website.
  3. Everything I've just mentioned so far about Canadian bitcoin traders and websites can also be applied to Russia, Russian bitcoin traders, and most of their other bitcoin-based websites. Those too can and most likely will severely mismanage or continue to severely mismanage your bitcoin all before finally giving what you assume will be an equivalent amount of money to your friend, and by the time you all realize that your friend has actually been getting much less money than you've been trying to send him while other strangers and third-parties have been pocketing the rest for themselves, it's too late and there's nothing you can do about it.
  4. The value of bitcoin itself wildly varies from place to place. Bitcoin worth 20 dollars in one are may be worth as low as half or as high as twice that amount in another place. With paypal and google wallet on the other hand, the value/price is more consistent and transparent.
  5. Different places will likely have wildly different laws regarding bitcoin. Some places ban bitcoin, others restrict it to specific individuals or businesses, others tax it for any arbitrary amount for any specific person or group of people, and so on, which will likely result in even more various errors or other various problems in the whole process of transferring bitcoin between these different places. This is not likely going to be the case with paypal, or if it is, then it's going to be less likely.

Each and every one of these issues I've mentioned so far has always occured every time I did some kind of online transaction involving bitcoin. With paypal or google wallet on the other hand, it's more secure, more transparent, and far less likely to have those issues.

There is no such as thing as converting dollars to bitcoin then transferring it directly from you to the person you specifically want it to go to. It's always transferred to other third-parties first, who take on the responsibility of processing it, managing it, and converting it into the appropriate form of currency that those other countries use, before it makes it's way to your friend.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying nobody should ever use bitcoin, since it does greatly help and benefit those do not have easy access to paypal or any other available alternatives, but when paypal is an available option, people should opt to use that and stick with that instead of bitcoin when possible, and that is most likely what duelingbook is going to do.

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Post #3 by Friends » Sun Oct 04, 2020 6:06 am

Hello, your opinion about bitcoin is respected and thank you for replying, but I see some mistakes in your text that I have to mention.

Christen57 wrote:High fees may exist with paypal, but they also exist with bitcoin as well, and said high fees are also less transparent and more vague with bitcoin than with paypal. Almost every time I tried to transfer money to someone else in the form of bitcoin, said bitcoin ends up getting mishandled between each party it's being transferred between, and the value of that bitcoin going to my friend goes down repeatedly as the third parties each decide to keep some of their own share of it before transferring the rest to the next party until it is ultimately transferred to the friend that you want it to be transferred to, resulting in that friend getting much less bitcoin than you were originally trying to send them.

You must have made some misunderstandings or use an online bitcoin wallet like bitcoin.com or blockchain.com. Yes these are some terrible examples, but bitcoin was created so you should not trust a third party. About fees, I don't know how much online wallets are charging, but I pay about 2-3 cents on every transaction I make. On paypal, I have been a buyer and a seller and there were times that I was receiving 2 euros and it kept me 50 whole cents as a fee. On strange occasions paypal charged me 2 whole euros for a transaction. On the world of bitcoin, whether you send 1 or 10000 bitcoins, you pay the same fee, and the good part is that you can adjuct it and make it whatever you want. 1 satoshi per byte, 10 satoshis per byte etc.

Christen57 wrote:What this means is that, for example, if I was in Canada, and I wanted to transfer 20 dollars to a friend that is in Russia, via bitcoin, and 20 dollars was worth, for example, 10 bitcoin, first I would have to find a Canadian bitcoin trader online, transfer the 20 dollars to them so they can transfer the equivalent amount of bitcoin to me in return, transfer the bitcoin to an online website designed to manage peoples' bitcoin, then have that website transfer that bitcoin to the country my friend is in, which is, in this case, Russia, then have Russia transfer the bitcoin to my friend, have my friend transfer that bitcoin to a Russian bitcoin trader, before finally having that Russian bitcoin trader transfer an amount of Russian dollars equivalent to that amount of Russian bitcoin back to my friend.

This example is true ONLY if I want to convert my bitcoins to dollars. Hey, man, not all of us want that, bitcoin is a currency itself and it has its own uniqueness. Also, if I want to pay duelingbook there is no point for a third party. I just send an amount to an address and wait until it is confirmed. Once it's confirmed the duelingbook allows me to change my profile picture. Ta-da!

You understand what I mean, doing that: ₿->$->duelingbook->$->₿ has no reason unless we both want to first convert them to dollars. At least, this is what you're presenting with your example.
This is fine itself: ₿->duelingbook->₿

Christen57 wrote:The value of bitcoin itself wildly varies from place to place. Bitcoin worth 20 dollars in one are may be worth as low as half or as high as twice that amount in another place. With paypal and google wallet on the other hand, the value/price is more consistent and transparent.

Value of bitcoin doesn't wildly vary from place to place. If you google "bitcoin price" you can see in what price most people think of. Right now 1 Bitcoin equals 9,030.09 Euro. You won't find any trusted place where 1 Bitcoin equals 8,000 Euros.

Now about the other examples you've given (1,2,3,5), I have to say nothing but this. You're trusting a third party to escrow your money and of course this is bad unless you want to convert your coins to dollars. Otherwise, there is no point on holding your bitcoins to exchanges.

Christen57 wrote:There is no such as thing as converting dollars to bitcoin then transferring it directly from you to the person you specifically want it to go to. It's always transferred to other third-parties first, who take on the responsibility of processing it, managing it, and converting it into the appropriate form of currency that those other countries use, before it makes it's way to your friend.

Buddy, I thing you have not understood the way bitcoin works. We don't need to convert our bitcoins to dollars and then send them to others. We send an amount of digital currency from our address to someone's else. No third parties, no dollar conversion, nothing. Unfortunately, you must had a bad experience with online wallets that charge a lot. If you read the link I mentioned on the first post you may clarify some things in your head.

Christen57 wrote:Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying nobody should ever use bitcoin, since it does greatly help and benefit those do not have easy access to paypal or any other available alternatives, but when paypal is an available option, people should opt to use that and stick with that instead of bitcoin when possible, and that is most likely what duelingbook is going to do.

I didn't say to remove paypal from payment method. I just said to add bitcoin as another one, just for those that want to remain anonymous.

P.S, you don't have to write with huge sized characters. It seems like you're trying to impose your opinion.

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Post #4 by Christen57 » Sun Oct 04, 2020 2:08 pm

Friends wrote:
Christen57 wrote:What this means is that, for example, if I was in Canada, and I wanted to transfer 20 dollars to a friend that is in Russia, via bitcoin, and 20 dollars was worth, for example, 10 bitcoin, first I would have to find a Canadian bitcoin trader online, transfer the 20 dollars to them so they can transfer the equivalent amount of bitcoin to me in return, transfer the bitcoin to an online website designed to manage peoples' bitcoin, then have that website transfer that bitcoin to the country my friend is in, which is, in this case, Russia, then have Russia transfer the bitcoin to my friend, have my friend transfer that bitcoin to a Russian bitcoin trader, before finally having that Russian bitcoin trader transfer an amount of Russian dollars equivalent to that amount of Russian bitcoin back to my friend.

This example is true ONLY if I want to convert my bitcoins to dollars. Hey, man, not all of us want that, bitcoin is a currency itself and it has its own uniqueness. Also, if I want to pay duelingbook there is no point for a third party. I just send an amount to an address and wait until it is confirmed. Once it's confirmed the duelingbook allows me to change my profile picture. Ta-da!

You understand what I mean, doing that: ₿->$->duelingbook->$->₿ has no reason unless we both want to first convert them to dollars. At least, this is what you're presenting with your example.
This is fine itself: ₿->duelingbook->₿

Christen57 wrote:There is no such as thing as converting dollars to bitcoin then transferring it directly from you to the person you specifically want it to go to. It's always transferred to other third-parties first, who take on the responsibility of processing it, managing it, and converting it into the appropriate form of currency that those other countries use, before it makes it's way to your friend.

Buddy, I thing you have not understood the way bitcoin works. We don't need to convert our bitcoins to dollars and then send them to others. We send an amount of digital currency from our address to someone's else. No third parties, no dollar conversion, nothing. Unfortunately, you must had a bad experience with online wallets that charge a lot. If you read the link I mentioned on the first post you may clarify some things in your head.


All of these arguments assume that the owner(s) of duelingbook will be able to fully utilize bitcoin in their local areas where they live. You might send a certain amount of bitcoin to them in return for being able to upload your own profile images for a certain period of time, but remember that these people have their own bills to pay, food to purchase, and so on. There's a good chance their local supermarkets where they get their food from won't accept bitcoin, nor will their landords and internet service providers that charge them for their homes and internet, respectively. So when you do send them the bitcoin, they will likely have to convert it to money their country uses or they are stuck with useless currency, meaning that they will ultimately end up running into all those same issues that I did, and have those same bad experiences that I did.

Of course this is unless it just so happens that they can use the bitcoin themselves to pay their local taxes, health care bills, any other insurance bills, supermarkets, landlords, internet service providers, and anything and anyone else they need to pay from time to time, without having to go through any of that trouble of converting it.

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Post #5 by Friends » Sun Oct 04, 2020 4:23 pm

Yes, honestly, I don't know any internet providers or supermarkets that accept bitcoin and we can agree upon that. And this happens because of the same reason they don't accept gold as a way of payment. The reason is simple, bitcoin looks more as a safe asset than a currency.

As you mentioned, these people need the donations to live (generally). Do you know what will happen if they don't start accepting another way of payment? They will lose me as a client. Do you know what will happen if they start accepting bitcoin? They won't lose any clients plus the new ones like me. I see it as a win-win condition. If I owned duelingbook, I can't promise that I would add other payment methods like paysafecard, but I would surely choose to get paid on a decentralised currency. I would escape from the thick terms and conditions of all those paypal, paysafe, skrill etc.

Anyway, yes if they don't care about having bitcoins, they'll have to sell them. Although, this doesn't mean that each time that I send $1 in bitcoin they'll have to convert it to dollar. Once a <any number of months> they can withdraw their bitcoins. And again, I don't know on what exchanges you converted your money. I do know that you can sell your bitcoins really easy and fast with 1%-3% fees on some exchanges without losing any important amounts. To cut a long story short, the crypto exchanges need research before you start trading.

We have to start informing people about bitcoin. The freer the market, the freer the people.

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Post #6 by Friends » Sun Jul 18, 2021 5:18 pm

Bump.

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Post #7 by Genexwrecker » Sun Jul 18, 2021 5:46 pm

no
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Post #9 by Genexwrecker » Sun Jul 18, 2021 5:49 pm

Friends wrote:Yes, honestly, I don't know any internet providers or supermarkets that accept bitcoin and we can agree upon that. And this happens because of the same reason they don't accept gold as a way of payment. The reason is simple, bitcoin looks more as a safe asset than a currency.

As you mentioned, these people need the donations to live (generally). Do you know what will happen if they don't start accepting another way of payment? They will lose me as a client. Do you know what will happen if they start accepting bitcoin? They won't lose any clients plus the new ones like me. I see it as a win-win condition. If I owned duelingbook, I can't promise that I would add other payment methods like paysafecard, but I would surely choose to get paid on a decentralised currency. I would escape from the thick terms and conditions of all those paypal, paysafe, skrill etc.

Anyway, yes if they don't care about having bitcoins, they'll have to sell them. Although, this doesn't mean that each time that I send $1 in bitcoin they'll have to convert it to dollar. Once a <any number of months> they can withdraw their bitcoins. And again, I don't know on what exchanges you converted your money. I do know that you can sell your bitcoins really easy and fast with 1%-3% fees on some exchanges without losing any important amounts. To cut a long story short, the crypto exchanges need research before you start trading.

We have to start informing people about bitcoin. The freer the market, the freer the people.

You arent clients this isnt a buisness or company we run here. We are providing a free website for people to play ygo on because we like the card game. Donations keep the servers up and nothing else and I assure you bitcoin will not be accepted as payment for the servers on any platform. We get absolutely nothing from running the website and do so of our own free will as volunteers. We arent going to play the stockmarket to try and gamble on keeping the servers up.
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Post #10 by Christen57 » Sun Jul 18, 2021 6:10 pm

Friends wrote:Yes, honestly, I don't know any internet providers or supermarkets that accept bitcoin and we can agree upon that. And this happens because of the same reason they don't accept gold as a way of payment. The reason is simple, bitcoin looks more as a safe asset than a currency.

As you mentioned, these people need the donations to live (generally). Do you know what will happen if they don't start accepting another way of payment? They will lose me as a client. Do you know what will happen if they start accepting bitcoin? They won't lose any clients plus the new ones like me. I see it as a win-win condition. If I owned duelingbook, I can't promise that I would add other payment methods like paysafecard, but I would surely choose to get paid on a decentralised currency. I would escape from the thick terms and conditions of all those paypal, paysafe, skrill etc.

Anyway, yes if they don't care about having bitcoins, they'll have to sell them. Although, this doesn't mean that each time that I send $1 in bitcoin they'll have to convert it to dollar. Once a <any number of months> they can withdraw their bitcoins. And again, I don't know on what exchanges you converted your money. I do know that you can sell your bitcoins really easy and fast with 1%-3% fees on some exchanges without losing any important amounts. To cut a long story short, the crypto exchanges need research before you start trading.

We have to start informing people about bitcoin. The freer the market, the freer the people.


Yes, honestly, I don't know any internet providers or supermarkets that accept bitcoin and we can agree upon that. And this happens because of the same reason they don't accept gold as a way of payment. The reason is simple, bitcoin looks more as a safe asset than a currency.


No. The real reason is because storing money digitally is easier than storing money in the form of physical gold. If I have millions of dollars in my bank account, I would rather keep all of that money digitally stored than to have millions of piles of gold sitting around my house cluttering up my home to represent that millions of dollars. It's the same reason I don't carry all my cash in my wallet, because once a thief snatches it, all my money is gone. I'd rather deposit most of that cash in my bank account and keep maybe 1 or 2 physical bills only for making quick purchases.

And again, I don't know on what exchanges you converted your money. I do know that you can sell your bitcoins really easy and fast with 1%-3% fees on some exchanges without losing any important amounts.


Yeah, I don't remember either what websites I used exactly to buy bitcoin since it's been quite a while now since this happened and I haven't made any bitcoin-related transactions since. I know that https://paxful.com was one of the websites I used, but I still tried other websites too just to see which site would be best for doing bitcoin-related business and don't remember any of those.

Also, the fact that there are some shady bitcoin traders will keep a certain percentage of your bitcoin for themselves instead of giving all of it to the person you want it to go to is one of my points I was making, that bitcoin isn't strictly better than paypal and has it's serious issues even though it's still a good alternative to regular money for many people.

Also, it's not even 1%-3% that you lose when transferring bitcoin. For example, this article https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/19/big-transactions-fees-are-a-problem-for-bitcoin.html says that someone was charged 16 dollars to send 25 dollars worth of bitcoin to someone else.

Do the math. 16 is 64% of 25, not "1%-3%" like you're claiming.

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Post #11 by Christen57 » Sun Jul 18, 2021 6:12 pm

Genexwrecker wrote:
Friends wrote:Yes, honestly, I don't know any internet providers or supermarkets that accept bitcoin and we can agree upon that. And this happens because of the same reason they don't accept gold as a way of payment. The reason is simple, bitcoin looks more as a safe asset than a currency.

As you mentioned, these people need the donations to live (generally). Do you know what will happen if they don't start accepting another way of payment? They will lose me as a client. Do you know what will happen if they start accepting bitcoin? They won't lose any clients plus the new ones like me. I see it as a win-win condition. If I owned duelingbook, I can't promise that I would add other payment methods like paysafecard, but I would surely choose to get paid on a decentralised currency. I would escape from the thick terms and conditions of all those paypal, paysafe, skrill etc.

Anyway, yes if they don't care about having bitcoins, they'll have to sell them. Although, this doesn't mean that each time that I send $1 in bitcoin they'll have to convert it to dollar. Once a <any number of months> they can withdraw their bitcoins. And again, I don't know on what exchanges you converted your money. I do know that you can sell your bitcoins really easy and fast with 1%-3% fees on some exchanges without losing any important amounts. To cut a long story short, the crypto exchanges need research before you start trading.

We have to start informing people about bitcoin. The freer the market, the freer the people.

You arent clients this isnt a buisness or company we run here. We are providing a free website for people to play ygo on because we like the card game. Donations keep the servers up and nothing else and I assure you bitcoin will not be accepted as payment for the servers on any platform. We get absolutely nothing from running the website and do so of our own free will as volunteers. We arent going to play the stockmarket to try and gamble on keeping the servers up.


Exactly. Heck, I don't even know what the stockmarket is or how it works. How is Xteven supposed to implement such a complicated thing on duelingbook?

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Post #12 by Christen57 » Sun Jul 18, 2021 6:18 pm

james123 wrote:
Genexwrecker wrote:no

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixdo93X6-ek
Just accept the idea!


See my replies, as well as Genexwrecker's reply, to this guy's posts. Bitcoin isn't all bad and it has it's uses in certain countries, but it still has major issues and risks this guy isn't telling you about.

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Post #13 by Friends » Mon Jul 19, 2021 6:26 am

Alright, let's see.

Genexwrecker wrote:You arent clients this isnt a buisness or company we run here. We are providing a free website for people to play ygo on because we like the card game. Donations keep the servers up and nothing else and I assure you bitcoin will not be accepted as payment for the servers on any platform. We get absolutely nothing from running the website and do so of our own free will as volunteers. We arent going to play the stockmarket to try and gamble on keeping the servers up.

It's a little disappointing seeing a duelingbook stuff member replying so nonsensically (and unethically with that “no”), but I'll respond for your last sentence. Bitcoin is a currency. If you don't like the price fluctuations or don't want to keep your bitcoins, you can convert them to fiat instantly.

Christen57 wrote:No. The real reason is because storing money digitally is easier than storing money in the form of physical gold.

Actually, if the bank holds your money, you own nothing. The bank allows you to transfer their money, you've deposited. If I gave you a paper saying that I owe you $10, you don't have $10, do you? With Bitcoin, you own your money.

Christen57 wrote:Also, the fact that there are some shady bitcoin traders will keep a certain percentage of your bitcoin for themselves instead of giving all of it to the person you want it to go to is one of my points I was making, that bitcoin isn't strictly better than paypal and has it's serious issues even though it's still a good alternative to regular money for many people.

It's not my fault that you used an online wallet and were exceedingly charged by the fees. You can pay 1-5 sats per byte and it'll cost you around 50 cents. If duelingbook didn't want that either, they could open a lightning channel where the fees are close to zero.

Christen57 wrote:Also, it's not even 1%-3% that you lose when transferring bitcoin. For example, this article https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/19/big-tra ... tcoin.html says that someone was charged 16 dollars to send 25 dollars worth of bitcoin to someone else.

Again, you can be charged by doing on-chain payments. You decide the fee rate.

Christen57 wrote:Exactly. Heck, I don't even know what the stockmarket is or how it works. How is Xteven supposed to implement such a complicated thing on duelingbook?

It seems that this community has remain the same since I left... How was Xteven supposed to implement the whole Duelingbook thing? It's not hard to implement a Bitcoin deposit page, there are great implementations already.

Christen57 wrote:See my replies, as well as Genexwrecker's reply, to this guy's posts. Bitcoin isn't all bad and it has it's uses in certain countries, but it still has major issues and risks this guy isn't telling you about.

But, after all you own your money. That's what matters to me. Of course and paypal is a smoother process. Too bad, though, that Xteven just lost a client...

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Post #14 by Renji Asuka » Mon Jul 19, 2021 7:20 am

You were told that it won't happen multiple times, so just accept it and move on.
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Post #15 by Runzy » Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:10 am

Not needed, Like genex said we aren't trying to gamble here. You are also not a "client" DB is not selling anything.
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Post #16 by Friends » Mon Jul 19, 2021 11:00 am

Okay. Thank you.

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Post #17 by Christen57 » Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:48 pm

Friends wrote:Alright, let's see.

Genexwrecker wrote:You arent clients this isnt a buisness or company we run here. We are providing a free website for people to play ygo on because we like the card game. Donations keep the servers up and nothing else and I assure you bitcoin will not be accepted as payment for the servers on any platform. We get absolutely nothing from running the website and do so of our own free will as volunteers. We arent going to play the stockmarket to try and gamble on keeping the servers up.

It's a little disappointing seeing a duelingbook stuff member replying so nonsensically (and unethically with that “no”), but I'll respond for your last sentence. Bitcoin is a currency. If you don't like the price fluctuations or don't want to keep your bitcoins, you can convert them to fiat instantly.

Christen57 wrote:No. The real reason is because storing money digitally is easier than storing money in the form of physical gold.

Actually, if the bank holds your money, you own nothing. The bank allows you to transfer their money, you've deposited. If I gave you a paper saying that I owe you $10, you don't have $10, do you? With Bitcoin, you own your money.

Christen57 wrote:Also, the fact that there are some shady bitcoin traders will keep a certain percentage of your bitcoin for themselves instead of giving all of it to the person you want it to go to is one of my points I was making, that bitcoin isn't strictly better than paypal and has it's serious issues even though it's still a good alternative to regular money for many people.

It's not my fault that you used an online wallet and were exceedingly charged by the fees. You can pay 1-5 sats per byte and it'll cost you around 50 cents. If duelingbook didn't want that either, they could open a lightning channel where the fees are close to zero.

Christen57 wrote:Also, it's not even 1%-3% that you lose when transferring bitcoin. For example, this article https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/19/big-tra ... tcoin.html says that someone was charged 16 dollars to send 25 dollars worth of bitcoin to someone else.

Again, you can be charged by doing on-chain payments. You decide the fee rate.

Christen57 wrote:Exactly. Heck, I don't even know what the stockmarket is or how it works. How is Xteven supposed to implement such a complicated thing on duelingbook?

It seems that this community has remain the same since I left... How was Xteven supposed to implement the whole Duelingbook thing? It's not hard to implement a Bitcoin deposit page, there are great implementations already.

Christen57 wrote:See my replies, as well as Genexwrecker's reply, to this guy's posts. Bitcoin isn't all bad and it has it's uses in certain countries, but it still has major issues and risks this guy isn't telling you about.

But, after all you own your money. That's what matters to me. Of course and paypal is a smoother process. Too bad, though, that Xteven just lost a client...


Bitcoin is a currency.


It's technically a currency, yes, but it's not a currency that's acceptable at this time or better than plain United States Dollars (USD) for duelingbook.

If you don't like the price fluctuations or don't want to keep your bitcoins, you can convert them to fiat instantly.


You've contradicted yourself here. Earlier you said "Value of bitcoin doesn't wildly vary from place to place." Now you're saying it does wildly vary. That's what "price fluctuations" mean, when the value does in fact begin varying wildly from place to place or time to time.

Also, what is fiat? Did you mean flat, with an "L"?

Also, if I were to do this and trying converting to this "fiat" would I also be charged fees too? Does that mean I have to pay fees for buying/selling bitcoin then also pay additional fees on top of that for this "fiat" thing?


Actually, if the bank holds your money, you own nothing. The bank allows you to transfer their money, you've deposited.


What? No, if I deposit my money in the bank, the bank is holding my money, not theirs. It's still my money. They're just holding it for me so I don't have to keep it all physically in my wallet for a thief to snatch. When I go on Amazon or Ebay to order something, I'm providing my debit card information so I can spend some of that money of mine that the bank was holding, not money belonging to the bank. My money doesn't automatically become the bank's money just because they're holding it.

If I gave you a paper saying that I owe you $10, you don't have $10, do you?


Me depositing 10 dollars into my bank account does not equate to me loaning 10 dollars to that bank for them to pay me back later. They're not "owing" me any 10 dollars. They're simply holding my 10 dollars. Holding money and owing money are 2 completely different things.

If duelingbook didn't want that either, they could open a lightning channel where the fees are close to zero.


"Close to zero" meaning what, exactly? How much money in fees?

How was Xteven supposed to implement the whole Duelingbook thing?


Because he's competent at coding and had plenty of help?

Anyways, Genexwrecker and Runzy have pointed out that bitcoin requires gambling, something I myself wasn't previously aware of, which is just another reason Xteven can't trust bitcoin and I wouldn't either. I would rather make money consistently than to have to gamble in some shady bitcoin lottery/roulette or whatever.

Some alternate payment methods I would recommend though would be, for example, Google Wallet, as well as buying a Steam/Amazon/Ebay/Staples/Walmart/McDonalds gift card and sending the code to Xteven so he could redeem it and reward you with the appropriate number of days you can customize your avatar/sleeves.
Last edited by Christen57 on Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Genexwrecker
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Post #18 by Genexwrecker » Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:55 pm

Not to mention bitcoin bubble burst and lost a good chunk of its value in one night. It can very well burst again.

We arent going to take gift cards either
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Post #19 by Christen57 » Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:58 pm

Genexwrecker wrote:Not to mention bitcoin bubble burst and lost a good chunk of its value in one night. It can very well burst again.


And here he was saying nothing like this would ever happen. How does that work though? Can bitcoin's value really go down randomly the same way stocks and whatnot can?

Also, since we're talking about possible alternate payment methods, what are your thoughts on Google Wallet and Patreon?

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Post #20 by Genexwrecker » Mon Jul 19, 2021 11:07 pm

Christen57 wrote:
Genexwrecker wrote:Not to mention bitcoin bubble burst and lost a good chunk of its value in one night. It can very well burst again.


And here he was saying nothing like this would ever happen. How does that work though? Can bitcoin's value really go down randomly the same way stocks and whatnot can?

Also, since we're talking about possible alternate payment methods, what are your thoughts on Google Wallet and Patreon?

Google wallet ill discuss with him but patreon would be far more difficult to work with and if considered would be years out. And yes bitcoin works exactly like the stock market. You hold imaginary digital currency people want to monopolize and its value is subject to the market. If the market crashes so does its value.
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