Bitcoin as a payment method

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Re: Bitcoin as a payment method

Post #21 by Friends » Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:23 am

Is there any specific reason you write with text size = 150? It seems to me that you want to impose your opinion.

Christen57 wrote:It's technically a currency, yes, but it's not a currency that's acceptable at this time or better than plain United States Dollars (USD) for duelingbook.

It's way more acceptable than you may think. That is just your assumption.

Christen57 wrote:You've contradicted yourself here. Earlier you said "Value of bitcoin doesn't wildly vary from place to place." Now you're saying it does wildly vary. That's what "price fluctuations" mean, when the value does in fact begin varying wildly from place to place or time to time.

Its market value varying from place to place doesn't mean that its price doesn't fluctuate. It highly does. The places where you buy it from don't sell it in a varying price.

Christen57 wrote:Also, what is fiat? Did you mean flat, with an "L"?

Fiat is a currency established as money, often by government regulation. The USD is a fiat currency.

Christen57 wrote:Also, if I were to do this and trying converting to this "fiat" would I also be charged fees too? Does that mean I have to pay fees for buying/selling bitcoin then also pay additional fees on top of that for this "fiat" thing?

You are always charged from buying/selling products. Once you donate to duelingbook, paypal charges them a small fee. Same thing would happen if Xteven received BTC and converted it instantly to fiat. We aren't donating anything, don't deceive ourselves. It's just a bullshit word the admins chose to name. Once you receive the so-called “donocode”, you've made a purchase.

Christen57 wrote:What? No, if I deposit my money in the bank, the bank is holding my money, not theirs. It's still my money. They're just holding it for me so I don't have to keep it all physically in my wallet for a thief to snatch.

This is what they've told you and want you to believe. The bank owns the money you're depositing and each time you make a purchase, they “allow” you to transfer those deposited dollars/euros. If the bank bankrupted the next day, you'd acknowledge that you have no ownership over your funds.

Christen57 wrote:Me depositing 10 dollars into my bank account does not equate to me loaning 10 dollars to that bank for them to pay me back later. They're not "owing" me any 10 dollars. They're simply holding my 10 dollars. Holding money and owing money are 2 completely different things.

But, you didn't answer to my question, did you? And no, once you deposit money to your bank, the only thing remained to you is a promise (a paper) that can redeem your funds. Once you login to your bank account and see that giant “Total balance: $1000”, essentially, you've been given a paper saying that you own $1000. You don't own them; the bank does.

C'mon you can't be really not understand it. Hadn't you heard of the capital controls?

Christen57 wrote:"Close to zero" meaning what, exactly? How much money in fees?

Around 1 sat per transaction. Seriously, you should try the lightning network.

Christen57 wrote:Anyways, Genexwrecker and Runzy have pointed out that bitcoin requires gambling, something I myself wasn't previously aware of, which is just another reason Xteven can't trust bitcoin and I wouldn't either. I would rather make money consistently than to have to gamble in some shady bitcoin lottery/roulette or whatever.

This is completely bullshit. You aren't gambling anything. I also mentioned that the payee could instantly convert their BTC to fiat if they don't want to keep their BTC.

Genexwrecker wrote:Not to mention bitcoin bubble burst and lost a good chunk of its value in one night. It can very well burst again.

Uncommented. Have fun staying poor.

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Post #22 by Renji Asuka » Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:49 am

Friends wrote:Is there any specific reason you write with text size = 150? It seems to me that you want to impose your opinion.

Christen57 wrote:It's technically a currency, yes, but it's not a currency that's acceptable at this time or better than plain United States Dollars (USD) for duelingbook.

It's way more acceptable than you may think. That is just your assumption.

Christen57 wrote:You've contradicted yourself here. Earlier you said "Value of bitcoin doesn't wildly vary from place to place." Now you're saying it does wildly vary. That's what "price fluctuations" mean, when the value does in fact begin varying wildly from place to place or time to time.

Its market value varying from place to place doesn't mean that its price doesn't fluctuate. It highly does. The places where you buy it from don't sell it in a varying price.

Christen57 wrote:Also, what is fiat? Did you mean flat, with an "L"?

Fiat is a currency established as money, often by government regulation. The USD is a fiat currency.

Christen57 wrote:Also, if I were to do this and trying converting to this "fiat" would I also be charged fees too? Does that mean I have to pay fees for buying/selling bitcoin then also pay additional fees on top of that for this "fiat" thing?

You are always charged from buying/selling products. Once you donate to duelingbook, paypal charges them a small fee. Same thing would happen if Xteven received BTC and converted it instantly to fiat. We aren't donating anything, don't deceive ourselves. It's just a bullshit word the admins chose to name. Once you receive the so-called “donocode”, you've made a purchase.

Christen57 wrote:What? No, if I deposit my money in the bank, the bank is holding my money, not theirs. It's still my money. They're just holding it for me so I don't have to keep it all physically in my wallet for a thief to snatch.

This is what they've told you and want you to believe. The bank owns the money you're depositing and each time you make a purchase, they “allow” you to transfer those deposited dollars/euros. If the bank bankrupted the next day, you'd acknowledge that you have no ownership over your funds.

Christen57 wrote:Me depositing 10 dollars into my bank account does not equate to me loaning 10 dollars to that bank for them to pay me back later. They're not "owing" me any 10 dollars. They're simply holding my 10 dollars. Holding money and owing money are 2 completely different things.

But, you didn't answer to my question, did you? And no, once you deposit money to your bank, the only thing remained to you is a promise (a paper) that can redeem your funds. Once you login to your bank account and see that giant “Total balance: $1000”, essentially, you've been given a paper saying that you own $1000. You don't own them; the bank does.

C'mon you can't be really not understand it. Hadn't you heard of the capital controls?

Christen57 wrote:"Close to zero" meaning what, exactly? How much money in fees?

Around 1 sat per transaction. Seriously, you should try the lightning network.

Christen57 wrote:Anyways, Genexwrecker and Runzy have pointed out that bitcoin requires gambling, something I myself wasn't previously aware of, which is just another reason Xteven can't trust bitcoin and I wouldn't either. I would rather make money consistently than to have to gamble in some shady bitcoin lottery/roulette or whatever.

This is completely bullshit. You aren't gambling anything. I also mentioned that the payee could instantly convert their BTC to fiat if they don't want to keep their BTC.

Genexwrecker wrote:Not to mention bitcoin bubble burst and lost a good chunk of its value in one night. It can very well burst again.

Uncommented. Have fun staying poor.

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What you fail to realize is, Bitcoin will never have any real value, when/if electronics are not longer operatable, you have nothing. Meanwhile gold will retain its value.
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Post #23 by Friends » Tue Jul 20, 2021 8:09 am

Sorry for ruining it to you, but as long as people want it, it does. Same thing happens for gold.

when/if electronics are not longer operatable

If pigs could fly...

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Post #24 by Renji Asuka » Tue Jul 20, 2021 8:30 am

Friends wrote:Sorry for ruining it to you, but as long as people want it, it does. Same thing happens for gold.

when/if electronics are not longer operatable

If pigs could fly...

If you believe it can't happen, then I have an island in the middle of a desert to sell you.
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Post #25 by Friends » Tue Jul 20, 2021 8:35 am

Image

What you fail to understand is that if a total of people decides to consider it a currency it, indeed, has value. We're talking about now. Now that electronics work. Now that humans interact with each other on a society. Now that I'm able to send you a message from across the ocean within a second.

We're not talking about when or if electronics won't work. Is the “if pigs could fly” a valid argument to you?

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Post #26 by Renji Asuka » Tue Jul 20, 2021 8:48 am

Friends wrote:Image

What you fail to understand is that if a total of people decides to consider it a currency it, indeed, has value. We're talking about now. Now that electronics work. Now that humans interact with each other on a society. Now that I'm able to send you a message from across the ocean within a second.

We're not talking about when or if electronics won't work. Is the “if pigs could fly” a valid argument to you?

What you fail to realize, all virtual currencies hold 0 value in the real world, the fact you completely missed what was being told you is really telling. Hence why it has no value, you can't possess it in real life unlike Gold which has the most value.
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Post #27 by Friends » Tue Jul 20, 2021 8:51 am

Renji Asuka wrote:What you fail to realize, all virtual currencies hold 0 value in the real world, the fact you completely missed what was being told you is really telling. Hence why it has no value, you can't possess it in real life unlike Gold which has the most value.


Value definition: The regard that something is held to deserve; the importance, worth, or usefulness of something.

If Bitcoin is useful to me, then it automatically has value. You're just out of arguments and you keep repeating the same BS.

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Post #28 by Renji Asuka » Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:39 am

Friends wrote:
Renji Asuka wrote:What you fail to realize, all virtual currencies hold 0 value in the real world, the fact you completely missed what was being told you is really telling. Hence why it has no value, you can't possess it in real life unlike Gold which has the most value.


Value definition: The regard that something is held to deserve; the importance, worth, or usefulness of something.

If Bitcoin is useful to me, then it automatically has value. You're just out of arguments and you keep repeating the same BS.

Just because you find it useful, doesn't mean it has any value. But hey, keep thinking cryptocurrencies are of any value when hardly any company actually utilizes them.
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Post #29 by Friends » Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:59 am

We aren't going to ever agree. Have a nice day.

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Post #30 by greg503 » Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:25 pm

Friends wrote:
Christen57 wrote:It's technically a currency, yes, but it's not a currency that's acceptable at this time or better than plain United States Dollars (USD) for duelingbook.

It's way more acceptable than you may think. That is just your assumption.

Christen57 wrote:Also, if I were to do this and trying converting to this "fiat" would I also be charged fees too? Does that mean I have to pay fees for buying/selling bitcoin then also pay additional fees on top of that for this "fiat" thing?

You are always charged from buying/selling products. Once you donate to duelingbook, paypal charges them a small fee. Same thing would happen if Xteven received BTC and converted it instantly to fiat. We aren't donating anything, don't deceive ourselves. It's just a bullshit word the admins chose to name. Once you receive the so-called “donocode”, you've made a purchase.


So why aren't you converting your bitcoin into USD to donate with? The fees would be similar regardless, according to you. Also, why does it matter if it's a purchase or a donation?

Friends wrote:
Christen57 wrote:What? No, if I deposit my money in the bank, the bank is holding my money, not theirs. It's still my money. They're just holding it for me so I don't have to keep it all physically in my wallet for a thief to snatch.

This is what they've told you and want you to believe. The bank owns the money you're depositing and each time you make a purchase, they “allow” you to transfer those deposited dollars/euros. If the bank bankrupted the next day, you'd acknowledge that you have no ownership over your funds.

Christen57 wrote:Me depositing 10 dollars into my bank account does not equate to me loaning 10 dollars to that bank for them to pay me back later. They're not "owing" me any 10 dollars. They're simply holding my 10 dollars. Holding money and owing money are 2 completely different things.

But, you didn't answer to my question, did you? And no, once you deposit money to your bank, the only thing remained to you is a promise (a paper) that can redeem your funds. Once you login to your bank account and see that giant “Total balance: $1000”, essentially, you've been given a paper saying that you own $1000. You don't own them; the bank does.

C'mon you can't be really not understand it. Hadn't you heard of the capital controls?


This is why we have Credit Cards, so that the bank doesn't have to risk it's supply of paper currency.

Friends wrote:
Genexwrecker wrote:Not to mention bitcoin bubble burst and lost a good chunk of its value in one night. It can very well burst again.

Uncommented. Have fun staying poor.

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Oh no, inflation exists, every currency is worthless except crypto and stocks
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Post #31 by Friends » Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:35 pm

greg503 wrote:So why aren't you converting your bitcoin into USD to donate with? The fees would be similar regardless, according to you. Also, why does it matter if it's a purchase or a donation?

I can't. I have some paypal issues. It matters if it's a purchase, because the dono-code becomes essentially a product.

greg503 wrote:This is why we have Credit Cards, so that the bank doesn't have to risk it's supply of paper currency.

Agreed. Still, you have no ownership of the funds. The bank does. Each time you purchase something using your credit card, you're adding a debt to your bank.

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Post #32 by greg503 » Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:51 pm

Friends wrote:
greg503 wrote:So why aren't you converting your bitcoin into USD to donate with? The fees would be similar regardless, according to you. Also, why does it matter if it's a purchase or a donation?

I can't. I have some paypal issues. It matters if it's a purchase, because the dono-code becomes essentially a product.

For what?
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Post #33 by Genexwrecker » Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:57 pm

Friends wrote:
greg503 wrote:So why aren't you converting your bitcoin into USD to donate with? The fees would be similar regardless, according to you. Also, why does it matter if it's a purchase or a donation?

I can't. I have some paypal issues. It matters if it's a purchase, because the dono-code becomes essentially a product.

greg503 wrote:This is why we have Credit Cards, so that the bank doesn't have to risk it's supply of paper currency.

Agreed. Still, you have no ownership of the funds. The bank does. Each time you purchase something using your credit card, you're adding a debt to your bank.

All donations have a receipt. That does not make donating to a cause a product.

At any rate we are done here we have given why it isnt going to happen and the suggestion is denied.
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Post #34 by Sound4 » Tue Jul 20, 2021 6:13 pm

Bitcoin is not safe to use and extremely flawed. I understand where you are coming from but it is too flawed which many people can exploit easily.

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Post #35 by Christen57 » Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:38 pm

Friends wrote:Is there any specific reason you write with text size = 150? It seems to me that you want to impose your opinion.

Christen57 wrote:It's technically a currency, yes, but it's not a currency that's acceptable at this time or better than plain United States Dollars (USD) for duelingbook.

It's way more acceptable than you may think. That is just your assumption.

Christen57 wrote:You've contradicted yourself here. Earlier you said "Value of bitcoin doesn't wildly vary from place to place." Now you're saying it does wildly vary. That's what "price fluctuations" mean, when the value does in fact begin varying wildly from place to place or time to time.

Its market value varying from place to place doesn't mean that its price doesn't fluctuate. It highly does. The places where you buy it from don't sell it in a varying price.

Christen57 wrote:Also, what is fiat? Did you mean flat, with an "L"?

Fiat is a currency established as money, often by government regulation. The USD is a fiat currency.

Christen57 wrote:Also, if I were to do this and trying converting to this "fiat" would I also be charged fees too? Does that mean I have to pay fees for buying/selling bitcoin then also pay additional fees on top of that for this "fiat" thing?

You are always charged from buying/selling products. Once you donate to duelingbook, paypal charges them a small fee. Same thing would happen if Xteven received BTC and converted it instantly to fiat. We aren't donating anything, don't deceive ourselves. It's just a bullshit word the admins chose to name. Once you receive the so-called “donocode”, you've made a purchase.

Christen57 wrote:What? No, if I deposit my money in the bank, the bank is holding my money, not theirs. It's still my money. They're just holding it for me so I don't have to keep it all physically in my wallet for a thief to snatch.

This is what they've told you and want you to believe. The bank owns the money you're depositing and each time you make a purchase, they “allow” you to transfer those deposited dollars/euros. If the bank bankrupted the next day, you'd acknowledge that you have no ownership over your funds.

Christen57 wrote:Me depositing 10 dollars into my bank account does not equate to me loaning 10 dollars to that bank for them to pay me back later. They're not "owing" me any 10 dollars. They're simply holding my 10 dollars. Holding money and owing money are 2 completely different things.

But, you didn't answer to my question, did you? And no, once you deposit money to your bank, the only thing remained to you is a promise (a paper) that can redeem your funds. Once you login to your bank account and see that giant “Total balance: $1000”, essentially, you've been given a paper saying that you own $1000. You don't own them; the bank does.

C'mon you can't be really not understand it. Hadn't you heard of the capital controls?

Christen57 wrote:"Close to zero" meaning what, exactly? How much money in fees?

Around 1 sat per transaction. Seriously, you should try the lightning network.

Christen57 wrote:Anyways, Genexwrecker and Runzy have pointed out that bitcoin requires gambling, something I myself wasn't previously aware of, which is just another reason Xteven can't trust bitcoin and I wouldn't either. I would rather make money consistently than to have to gamble in some shady bitcoin lottery/roulette or whatever.

This is completely bullshit. You aren't gambling anything. I also mentioned that the payee could instantly convert their BTC to fiat if they don't want to keep their BTC.


It's way more acceptable than you may think. That is just your assumption.


It's not my assumption. It's what the moderators said. Bitcoin is unacceptable for them at this time.

If the bank bankrupted the next day, you'd acknowledge that you have no ownership over your funds.


The odds of this happened are extremely low nowadays thanks to our technological advancements and better security measures. We have a bunch of safeguards in place in case something like this were to ever happen again. https://money.howstuffworks.com/personal-finance/banking/bank-closes-down.htm

But, you didn't answer to my question, did you?


Because it's a loaded question based on an incorrect premise. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loaded_question

The question incorrectly assumes that banks are actually giving people papers saying those people are "owed" 10 dollars. You don't know for certain that that's what actually happens, unless you own, owned, or worked at, a bank.

You aren't gambling anything.


The value of bitcoin suddenly plummeting randomly is something that did actually happen, as Genexwrecker pointed out: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/05/19/bitcoin-btc-price-plunges-but-bottom-could-be-near-.html
https://fortune.com/2021/01/11/bitcoin-plunge-worst-crash-march-bubble/

So yes, you are gambling by relying on bitcoin. 1 bitcoin might be worth 5 dollars now, but then one day the value of that 1 bitcoin drops to 2 dollars, causing your profit margins to drop selling bitcoin. For example, if I want to sell a product for 5 dollars, and someone buys that product for 1 bitcoin instead since that 1 bitcoin is currently worth 5 dollars, and the value of that bitcoin then drops to 2 dollars or something before I can sell it for 5 dollars, I've just been robbed. I was supposed to sell a product for 5 and instead ultimately ended up selling it for 2 since that is how much bitcoin is now worth. Someone got away with buying something from me for a much lower price than what I wanted (they got away with buying a 5 dollar item for 2 dollars). That's stealing. Now in order to make back the extra 3 dollars I'm missing, I have to wait for the value of bitcoin to rise again back to 5 dollars so I can sell it and make the other missing 3 dollars. That's gambling. That's what the moderators were objecting to.


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